Water Cooled Grow Rooms

[phillipchristian]

I am seriously entertaining the idea of setting up a recirculation cooling system again since I already have all the piping needed and probably an adequate reservoir. The only issue I have is the price on a chiller that would fit my needs for over 5k watts. I am also considering stepping up to a 8k system in the future so I should probably size appropriately. If I use the rule of a 1/4 hp for each 1k light then that would require a 2 hp chiller that would cost more than a mini-split sized appropriately. I can see if you use geothermal cooling that the efficiency would go up considerably, but if planning just to use the chiller for cooling is it really any more efficient than a mini-split? I understand all the other advantages over using water vs refrigerant, but if power bill and up front cost are all that matter I am still on the fence.

If you get your chiller dialed in and sized correctly it would reduce your electricity costs by about 10% as opposed to a mini split. The bad news is that at 8k watts you would need a larger chiller than 2hp. Remember that formula is only in addition to your ambient cooling. Just assuming you have have 8k in a 10'x20'x8' room. You would need 2hp of chilling just to cool the lights. You would also have to cool the room, the exhaust from your dehumidifier, any ballasts you have in the room, and the exhaust from your Co2 generator. So lets say you have your digital ballast in the room, a 70 pint dehumidifier (that isn't water cooled), and a Co2 system (that isn't water cooled).
-32,000btu to cool your lamps
-20,000btu of cooling for your ballasts (this is really about half if you are using the new ballast models that run much cooler). So let's say 10,000btu
-8000btu to cool the ambient temperature or space of the room.
-2100btu to cool the exhaust given off by your dehumidifier.
-4000btu to cool the exhaust given off by your Co2.
So basically you would need 66,000btu of cooling. A 5hp chiller. This is a rough guideline but it is always better to oversize these systems. Also, everyones room is different and everyones climate is different. Guys growing in cold basements may not need all this. This is from my experience in a very warm climate. It's not cheap by any means but for me it definitely was worth it. I had 2 24,000btu mini splits in my room and it wasn't doing the trick. I started water cooling my equipment (Co2 generator, Nutrient reservoir, etc.) and I purchased a 5 ton air handler and ducted my lights back to its return. My room is perfect right now and has been for 2 years.

 

[phillipchristian]

This conversation has already been debated before, I think this thread has some valuable insights:
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/334473-c-vs-icebox-water-chiller.html

I read through that thread and there is so much mis information there.

First - water cooling is significantly more efficient than air cooling. With an air conditioner you are passing air over the evaporator. Air has 1/20th the heat capacity (ability of something to absorb heat and maintain temperature) of water. Therefore your air conditioner has to work harder to cool 1 cubic foot of air then a chiller has to work to cool 1 cubic foot of water. With a chiller, water is passed over the evaporator. Water is able to transfer the residual heat to the evaporator and cool itslef much more efficiently.

Second - the main problem is that people go online and see these Ice Boxes or other heat exchangers and think that they will remove all the heat from a room. If you mount an Ice Box with just a fan then it will act like an 8,000btu A/C. When you mount an Ice Box on a hood you are only taking the heat out of your hood. You still have to cool the room and the other equipment.

Third - some of the post in that article are just flat out wrong and have wrong information. If you have an 8,000btu air conditioner and an Ice Box side by side an Ice Box will cool the room much more efficiently. Water passing through the coild is able to suck heat out of the air more efficiently then air passing through the evaporator coils on an A/C. Also, Greenspace says that A/C units are much better for medium to large ops when in reality the larger your op the more cost effective and efficient water cooling is. Mainly because the costs become more comparible with those of A/C units.

Fourth - Water cooling is expensive and the technology is still being developed; but so is LED technology and plenty of guys are experimenting with that. There are very practical applications for using water cooled technology. In your example of an 8k room you would probably need 2 24,000btu A/C units to cool that room. If you vented your lights then maybe less but you'd be buying more inline fans. In my case we prefer to have absolutely no in/or out vents whatsoever. Not even our lighting. A lot of commercial growers are moving this direction. Called closed environment agriculture. With a chiller you are able to do this; completely seal your room and control all of the ambient temperatures in your space. Plus chillers give you an option of controlling your reservoir temps as well.

 

[woodsmaneh!]

Well said, things change.

As for being debated, we were just sharing info and every topic has been covered on RIU a billion times so what was your point?

 

[phillipchristian]

Well said, things change.

As for being debated, we were just sharing info and every topic has been covered on RIU a billion times so what was your point?

I don't understand what you are talking about. Go back and read the first 2 posts on this thread. I started it to have an open conversation about water cooling grow rooms. That's what we are doing. And not everything has been covered on here a billion times. There aren't any threads about this right now. There are a few about heat exhangers but nothing about water cooling in general. Plus there are new technologies every day in the grow world. So that means everyday there's something new for someone to talk about if it interest them. If you already know everything then why are you here?

 

[woodsmaneh!]

This conversation has already been debated before, I think this thread has some valuable insights:
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/334473-c-vs-icebox-water-chiller.html

I was talking about this comment.

As I said things change = always good to talk about new things

everything has been talked about a billion times = most every question on here has been answered so many times (but there are always exceptions)

For you to presume I know everything is quite flattering but very far from the truth.

I have been here answering questions for 4 years and you been here 6 months, read between the lines boy, I'm here to support you and learn, not insult you.

It's a nice day out, seeya

 

[Fnominon]

I believe you know what your talking about phillipchristian, you speak as if you have done the real life experimentation. Right now ironically I got a phone call from my property management about my water bill being oddly high and they are demanding to inspect my place for leaks. My house and the neighboring rental house are on the same water bill so I do not think all of the increase is from me alone, but I still feel that moving my operation is a must to prevent any drama. Anyone have any good advice on moving a 5k operation with average plant being probably 5 feet in height? I have everything covered legally, but I am coming up to a lease renewal and I really do not want to be forced in relocating quickly. I really want to move out into the country where I do not live in such high density with 3 neighbors directly overlooking my house.

 

[nixusr]

How loud are the 1hp chillers?

 

[phillipchristian]

I believe you know what your talking about phillipchristian, you speak as if you have done the real life experimentation. Right now ironically I got a phone call from my property management about my water bill being oddly high and they are demanding to inspect my place for leaks. My house and the neighboring rental house are on the same water bill so I do not think all of the increase is from me alone, but I still feel that moving my operation is a must to prevent any drama. Anyone have any good advice on moving a 5k operation with average plant being probably 5 feet in height? I have everything covered legally, but I am coming up to a lease renewal and I really do not want to be forced in relocating quickly. I really want to move out into the country where I do not live in such high density with 3 neighbors directly overlooking my house.

Thanks man, I appreciate the comment. I have been tinkering around with water cooled gardens for a while and I've learned a lot. Still got a lot to learn though.

That sucks about your spot man. Not sure what to do in that case. Never had to move 5 footers. Can't be easy. My only guess would be to rent a Uhaul truck and do it like that. If you do it then good luck man.

 

[phillipchristian]

How loud are the 1hp chillers?

The only two companies that I know that make 1hp chillers are Chillking and Ecoplus. This is not to say there aren't others; I just don't know who they are. I can't speak for the Ecoplus unit because I have never used one or seen it running but the Chillking unts are pretty quiet. About as loud as the condensor for a mini split. You aonly really hear the fan when it kicks on.

 

[phillipchristian]

Just bumping the thread with all the data loss.

 

[woodsmaneh!]

I have 2 EcoPlus chillers 1/2 hp and 1 hp. Had no issues with them and they work well. I think Sunlight Supply dis continued the 1 hp EcoPlus and now you need to buy the commercial one they sell. I paid 900$ for the 1/2 and 700$ (regular 1200$) for the 1 hp as I knew they were discontinuing them so got it cheap. Should have bought 2 of them.

 

[phillipchristian]

Depends on whether you need them or not.

 

[woodsmaneh!]

I have redundant spares for all my, meters, ballast, lights, water and air pumps ect but no chillers for back up. On the list to do get a 1 hp back up.

The way I look at it, what's the cost of failure, chillers you just can't fine around here easy, they need to be ordered and that takes 5 to 10 days. Rule #1 if shits going to crap out on you it will be when everything is closed. I put money away for stuff like that and buy on sale. I'm fortunate to be able to indulge my hobby of growing, I don't take many holidays and stuff like that so my spare cash goes back into my grow in upgrades and trying different things. I just bought 4 water pumps with venturi and water fracturing impellers I an going to try in my res, investment = $$ most of the time.

 

[phillipchristian]

I have redundant spares for all my, meters, ballast, lights, water and air pumps ect but no chillers for back up. On the list to do get a 1 hp back up.

The way I look at it, what's the cost of failure, chillers you just can't fine around here easy, they need to be ordered and that takes 5 to 10 days. Rule #1 if shits going to crap out on you it will be when everything is closed. I put money away for stuff like that and buy on sale. I'm fortunate to be able to indulge my hobby of growing, I don't take many holidays and stuff like that so my spare cash goes back into my grow in upgrades and trying different things. I just bought 4 water pumps with venturi and water fracturing impellers I an going to try in my res, investment = $$ most of the time.

Go for it man. Can't hurt. Not that easy for me to back up a 10hp chiller. It's a monster. I have some regular a/c units if it goes down to cool all of the equipment in the rooms. Luckily nothing has happened yet.

 

[phillipchristian]

Hey guys...cool grow journal that an RIU friend has going. Check it out. 2hp chiller, 3000w, Co2, etc...

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/513182-newb-grow-journal.html#post7153220

 

[unohu69]

great information here phillip. All this is way more than i need right now, but it is good to have read it. I would have never thought about water cooling at all.
i got here from that new grow journal. and was pleasantly surprised this is yours. Any ways, this does lend credibility to your nute program, and with this type of set up id deff be interested to see what you get from a DG grow. anyways, good luck to ya, ill be checking back in.

 

[phillipchristian]

Thanks Unohu, appreciate the +rep. Ordered my Dyna nutes on Wednesday. Looking forward to another experiment. Going to do half and half cause I only have 2 reservoirs and I don't feel like replumbing the tables. I'll hit you up when I'm getting things setup. Sure I'm gonna have a few questions.

 

[groovedaddy]

Wish I had started reading your post a month ago! I appreciate your sharing of knowledge on chiller application. Let me explain my set up and hopefully get some good advice on how to maximize the use of my new chiller. I run a sealed 8x10 flower room with CO2 (bottled) 2-1000 watt lights on rails both currently sucking air from outside and exiting outside. I run 4- 10 site aeroflow chambers each with its own 5 gal bucket for reservoirs (separate reservoirs because I usually run different plant strains in each chamber). The room has a 12000 btu mini split but during the upcoming summer months temps inside will go over 90 degrees and when I went to individual reservoirs the temps inside res jumped to 90+ after a few hours of lights on. So I purchased a 1/4 hp chiller and a 6" Ice Box heat exchanger a few weeks back and then read your post on chillers. Now I'm kicking myself in the ass for not going bigger! Now I'm trying to figure out the best way to utilize what I have. I believe you recommended 1/4 hp chiller for each 1000 watt light, unfortunately I have two 1000 watters. Would I be better served using the ice box to cool the ambient air in room or hook it up to the lights? Also what effect will either scenario have on humidity levels?

 

[JJFOURTWENTY]

View attachment 2072964

Fuck yes, that^ is $$$ sir!!!

 

[phillipchristian]

Wish I had started reading your post a month ago! I appreciate your sharing of knowledge on chiller application. Let me explain my set up and hopefully get some good advice on how to maximize the use of my new chiller. I run a sealed 8x10 flower room with CO2 (bottled) 2-1000 watt lights on rails both currently sucking air from outside and exiting outside. I run 4- 10 site aeroflow chambers each with its own 5 gal bucket for reservoirs (separate reservoirs because I usually run different plant strains in each chamber). The room has a 12000 btu mini split but during the upcoming summer months temps inside will go over 90 degrees and when I went to individual reservoirs the temps inside res jumped to 90+ after a few hours of lights on. So I purchased a 1/4 hp chiller and a 6" Ice Box heat exchanger a few weeks back and then read your post on chillers. Now I'm kicking myself in the ass for not going bigger! Now I'm trying to figure out the best way to utilize what I have. I believe you recommended 1/4 hp chiller for each 1000 watt light, unfortunately I have two 1000 watters. Would I be better served using the ice box to cool the ambient air in room or hook it up to the lights? Also what effect will either scenario have on humidity levels?

Hey groove, thanks for stopping by.

Sounds like you are doing just fine with what you bought. Adding 2 Ice Boxes to your light probably wouldn't have dropped your temps that much at all. You have the air being pulled through them and exhausted outside so the Ice Box really wouldn't be an improvement over that. You'd just be pumping colder air out your exhaust. Really the Ice Box is meant for completely sealed rooms when use on a hood like that. In your situation this is what I would do. You really need to get a chiller reservoir; something 30 gallons would be perfect. You can make one yourself out of a drum. You just need there to be a fitting at the bottom with a valve to let water out. This way when you hook it up to your pump the pressure will force water into your pump. Try and use either reinforced rubber tubing or solid pvc if you do it yourself. That cheap tubing will not handle the suction from your pump. You need a good pump that has at least a 15ft lift on it. Like a Flotec 1/2hp one. They come with a 1.25" intake port, a 1" exhaust port, and three 1/2" auxillary exhaust ports. Check this thread out; I helped this guy set his system up. He is using that pump and it will give you an idea of what I am saying ( https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/513182-newb-grow-journal.html). Or a good mag drive pump will do it as well (1200gph+). Fill the reservoir with a 70/30 mix of water and propylene glycol. This stuff is cheap and easy to find at any hardware store. It's rv/marine antifreexe and costs a few bucks a gallon. Then just create a manifold out of pvc and pump that water through the manifold, through your equipment, and back to the reservoir in a return manifold. You can find manifold construction blue prints on the Hydro innovations website (http://www.hydroinnovations.com/support.php) under "manifold schematics." If not then you can get those cheap hydro pumps and use one for each piece of equipment. Not sure how they would hold up in the reservoir though if you add the antifreeze to it. But you wouldn't have to worry about putting a port on your reservoir or building a manifold. I would then just use the Ice Box as a spot chiller in the room and use cool coils that you can buy or make out of copper tubing to cool each of your reservoirs to 65 degrees.

I know that's kind of long winded and may be confusing. Let me know if you need me to explain it better.