Advanced hash-making

[Guile]

To give you some background I am what is commonly referred to as "field expedient" (just means that I make due with what I have available to me).
Additionally I have a somewhat technically oriented mind that can lead to some creative problem solving biased on what I gather from the information provided to me. As a consequence I could probably write several books biased on what I have learned from the "failures" encountered while reinventing the wheel in my own creative little way.

I have been growing marijuana for more than half my life at this point (and I didn't really start until college). Though recently I have become whats locally called a "medical marijuana care provider" It simply means I grow pot for other peoples medical needs. This has afforded me an opportunity to "come out of the closet" (both literally and figuratively) and advance my overall understanding/appreciation/contribution towards Marijuana and its benefits.

I have built a dedicated grow room already (plan to erect a greenhouse this spring) having better facility's I've begun some interesting experimentation with hormones (though I also plan to experiment with light and breeding soon too).

Ultimately I need to establish a method for comparing my test results against their respective control group. The best I can figure would be to compare overall THC production. That having been said I am looking for the best way to extract the highest quantity of the purest THC extract from my plants.

I had recently done some reading that seemed to imply that Chloroform might be the best solvent to use for this purpose. Being rather expensive $100+ a gallon I was thinking about starting with an isopropyl alcohol extraction, distilling it down as far as possible in a double boiler before redissolving it in the chloroform and repeating the distillation of what remains in solution (which should contain less chlorophyll and plant sugars, resulting in nearly pure THC).

Can anyone help me, or offer advice?

Some of the things I have been considering are even as simple as preparing my plants. I have read that drying my plants in a 250F oven (for up to 2 hours) will improve the quality/yield of the product. Also adding Phosphoric acid during my first (alcohol) distillation may also further improve quality/yield. Are these accurate statements? Are there better processes to acomplish what I am after?

 

[Elliesdaddy]

The only technique i know is crunching up all the leaf inside a wrap of cling film so it's in a solid ball then boil it in a saucepan for a while... any chance you can help me on my current post while you're waiting on some proper answers fam? https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/503410-any-help-extractor-fans.html

 

[Thedillestpickle]

I know with DMT extraction you use camping fuel, then evaporate the fuel and finally the chrystals are washed with household ammonia to remove the impurities of thed camping fuel. I have no idea if that would work with THC, maybe though?

 

[sine143]

iso hash would probably be a pretty good method, but iso isnt nearly as selective in its extraction as say, butane. due to the crazy properties of alcohol, both polar and non polar solvents are extracted from the plant matter... meaning it might not be the best way to "grade" your weed.

 

[Thedillestpickle]

http://www.angelfire.com/emo/mirc420/makehash.html

I found this, Method #3 involves evapourating the petroleum ether from the camping fuel and using this as your solvent. Its highly selective, but you have to do the distillation of the pet ether first or youll have some nasties in your end product.

...just don't blow yourself up!

Iso extraction yeilds a dark green gummy substance that is hardly impressive to look at.

 

[Guile]

http://www.angelfire.com/emo/mirc420/makehash.html

I found this, Method #3 involves evapourating the petroleum ether from the camping fuel and using this as your solvent. Its highly selective, but you have to do the distillation of the pet ether first or youll have some nasties in your end product.

...just don't blow yourself up!

Iso extraction yeilds a dark green gummy substance that is hardly impressive to look at.

" But distill it first, not right from the can!" is a little concerning... At what temperature or pressure? what are we trying to remove from the solvent?

Iso extraction yeilds a dark green gummy substance that is hardly impressive to look at. Agreed... and the relative proportions of chlorophyll/other contaminants would affect the scientific accuracy of the tests. Its my impression that the second distillation using something like Chloroform that is more "selective" for a second distillation might yield a more "pure" result (more accurate results).

 

[Guile]

iso hash would probably be a pretty good method, but iso isnt nearly as selective in its extraction as say, butane. due to the crazy properties of alcohol, both polar and non polar solvents are extracted from the plant matter... meaning it might not be the best way to "grade" your weed.

As a non-profit medical marijuana provider, treating the most patents with the least investment is a big consideration of mine (though I assume it would be for many others as well).

It seems that the only accurate "crude" measurement of "gain" or "advantage" provided from any change/experiment would be to put it in a context that would make it easily relatable to $ invested and medicine provided..

I don't argue that there is a huge market for recreational marijuana where taste, and/or bag appeal are major considerations.. It just doesn't happen to be the case here (at least not at this time)... Besides a legitimate statement like "20% increase in THC production" is the kind of thing that captures attention..

 

[Thedillestpickle]

well yea I kinda skipped the Chloroform extraction because I didnt have any idea where you could get that stuff, Im looking into this for my own interest as well, so I didnt pay much attention to the chloroform method. Any idea how you or I might be able to aquire a decent amount of this stuff?

As for the Naptha gas extraction method what he describes there can be explained a little more simply. You heat a jar of naptha by placing it in a boiling pot of water, The highly volatile component of naptha is Petroleum ether(this is the main ingredient to naptha but there are other heavier less volatile components that do not volatize at that temperature), and it will boil when the naptha is heated in this way. You have a lid on that jar, in the lid is a hole, in the hole is a tube, the tube leads to a bucket of ice water.
The tube is made of copper and is coiled within the ice water bucket to ensure that as the hot petroleum ether passes through that tube it is recondensed inside the tube and will flow to the bottom. The coiled copper tube then passes through a water tight hole in the bottom of the ice water bucket and precipitated petroleum ether drips into another jar.

Whats left behind in the first jar are all the impurities that you dont want, you can now use the distilled ether to extract the THC

OR if you know how to get chloroform you can use that! (let me know where you get it)

I personally think I might just do the pet ether method because #1 it would be baddass to be like an alchemist and make ether.
#2 You could make 99% alcohol using the same equipment
#3 You could use either the distilled alcohol or the ether for a wide range of different medicinal extractions

 

[Guile]

well yea I kinda skipped the Chloroform extraction because I didnt have any idea where you could get that stuff, Im looking into this for my own interest as well, so I didnt pay much attention to the chloroform method. Any idea how you or I might be able to aquire a decent amount of this stuff?

As for the Naptha gas extraction method what he describes there can be explained a little more simply. You heat a jar of naptha by placing it in a boiling pot of water, The highly volatile component of naptha is Petroleum ether(this is the main ingredient to naptha but there are other heavier less volatile components that do not volatize at that temperature), and it will boil when the naptha is heated in this way. You have a lid on that jar, in the lid is a hole, in the hole is a tube, the tube leads to a bucket of ice water.
The tube is made of copper and is coiled within the ice water bucket to ensure that as the hot petroleum ether passes through that tube it is recondensed inside the tube and will flow to the bottom. The coiled copper tube then passes through a water tight hole in the bottom of the ice water bucket and precipitated petroleum ether drips into another jar.

Whats left behind in the first jar are all the impurities that you dont want, you can now use the distilled ether to extract the THC

OR if you know how to get chloroform you can use that! (let me know where you get it)

I personally think I might just do the pet ether method because #1 it would be baddass to be like an alchemist and make ether.
#2 You could make 99% alcohol using the same equipment
#3 You could use either the distilled alcohol or the ether for a wide range of different medicinal extractions

Use Froogle.com (google product search) add terms like Reagent, A.C.S. or Lab Grade also measurements like L (liter)

I was under the exact impression you relayed just now. I was just unsure of the temperatures at which the other volatile components boil at (distillation temperature will play a heavy role in purity)

Coleman fuel is a mixture of cyclohexane, nonane, octane, heptane, and pentane.
Of its constituent parts Pentane, Cyclohexane, and Heptane have boiling points below that of water (212F @ sea level in your double boiler). However if Heptane is not desirable for any reason the distillation would have to cease between 180 and 200F (potentially much lower if distilled under a partial vacuum). However if Pentane were undesirable everything collected before a temperature of 100f were reached would have to be discarded. (the reason moonshiners throw away the beginning/lead part of their run, it contains methanol that distills at lower temperatures and causes blindness)

Making extracts and distillations is pretty bad ass...
Though when you are trying to get nearly pure alcohol both temperature and pressure are big concerns. The moonshiners you see on TV rarely exceed 80% pure (that's early run, things drop off quickly which is why alcohol is proofed by volume), though you can build column stills that will get you around 95% at atmospheric pressures (and you can make a vacuum pump from an old refrigeration compressor if you are shooting for nearly pure)

If you are a resourceful sort once you get down distillation you can start synthesizing and purifying some interesting stuff... Say nitric acid to salvage the gold from computer parts (or the thin plating from cheap jewelry)

Here is a quick thought for your moonshine venture assuming that you use a 300 gallon heating oil tank you will want to use two 50-55 gallon drums, one 30 gallon drum (an undamaged drum as the vacuum and external water pressure could conspire to crush it, though I doubt it) and a 20-25' roll of 1/2-1" copper tubing (use the small drum to bend the condensing coil with coils 5-6 inches apart).
Its no more complicated that what the moonshiners use (considering the thumper keg, proofing barrel and all).
But you will use far less heat because of the vacuum and have far more control over purity.

The best part is that once you break vacuum everything comes to an immediate halt allowing you to accurately remove only the high methanol portion of the batch additionally making it easier to avoid water delusion (though with any decent yeast/brewing method your 30 gal catch can will fill before you start having dilution issues anyway, assuming that time and brewing temperatures are right).

Another tip... distillers yeasts tend to produce more methanol than say champagne yeast (biased on my reading anyway) keep that in mind when making your compromises...
Also urea nitrate is about the best yeast nutrient out there (for the money anyway, its the secret part of the mix they don't show on TV) but use sparingly and always distill cleanly (I believe this also increases methanol production)
If all goes well you could easily make about 25-30k a year with this setup (a bit more if you are a greedy asshole)

Ahhhh... I just had a sharegasum.... I love the free exchange of useful/interesting information
Its what makes my country so hot... (she is such a dirty girl)...
"Live free or die" my brothers (to amusingly snipe the motto of my repressive neighbors)

By the way, you can file for a permit to make "alternative fuels" so you don't have to stress about the fuzz... though you might have to pay a highway tax? it should appease the powers that be. After all you aren't getting away untaxed (just don't get caught doing anything illegal, if you do... I sure as hell don't know you..)

 

[ddimebag]

have you tried making butane hash oil? the simplest way is to stick your plant material in a glass jar and close the lid. the lid should have a hole where you spray your butane through. once the butane can is emptied, swish it around the jar for a bit and filter the butane out into a glass bowl with warm water. the butane will quickly evaporate from the heat, and the oil will be floating on top of the water, ready to be collected with a razor, spoon, etc... makes for a VERY potent, honey colored extract.

You could also do a methanol extraction, then wash it with activated carbon, filter, and wash with water and ether. Let them separate into three layers (ether on top, then water, then methanol on the bottom) and decant the ether layer. Evaporate the ether for a very concentrated product. You can go a step further and isomerize the CBD into THC by treating it with HCL and then neutralizing it. If you want an even MORE potent extract, you could either acetylate it (never done it myself...you need acetic anhydride) or separate it chromatographically...

Hope I gave you a couple of ideas to try here...the activated carbon and the either wash are what I would recommend, as it is easy to do and doesn't require hard to get chemicals.

 

[Thedillestpickle]

Use Froogle.com (google product search) add terms like Reagent, A.C.S. or Lab Grade also measurements like L (liter)

I was under the exact impression you relayed just now. I was just unsure of the temperatures at which the other volatile components boil at (distillation temperature will play a heavy role in purity)

Coleman fuel is a mixture of cyclohexane, nonane, octane, heptane, and pentane.
Of its constituent parts Pentane, Cyclohexane, and Heptane have boiling points below that of water (212F @ sea level in your double boiler). However if Heptane is not desirable for any reason the distillation would have to cease between 180 and 200F (potentially much lower if distilled under a partial vacuum). However if Pentane were undesirable everything collected before a temperature of 100f were reached would have to be discarded. (the reason moonshiners throw away the beginning/lead part of their run, it contains methanol that distills at lower temperatures and causes blindness)

Making extracts and distillations is pretty bad ass...
Though when you are trying to get nearly pure alcohol both temperature and pressure are big concerns. The moonshiners you see on TV rarely exceed 80% pure (that's early run, things drop off quickly which is why alcohol is proofed by volume), though you can build column stills that will get you around 95% at atmospheric pressures (and you can make a vacuum pump from an old refrigeration compressor if you are shooting for nearly pure)

If you are a resourceful sort once you get down distillation you can start synthesizing and purifying some interesting stuff... Say nitric acid to salvage the gold from computer parts (or the thin plating from cheap jewelry)

Here is a quick thought for your moonshine venture assuming that you use a 300 gallon heating oil tank you will want to use two 50-55 gallon drums, one 30 gallon drum (an undamaged drum as the vacuum and external water pressure could conspire to crush it, though I doubt it) and a 20-25' roll of 1/2-1" copper tubing (use the small drum to bend the condensing coil with coils 5-6 inches apart).
Its no more complicated that what the moonshiners use (considering the thumper keg, proofing barrel and all).
But you will use far less heat because of the vacuum and have far more control over purity.

The best part is that once you break vacuum everything comes to an immediate halt allowing you to accurately remove only the high methanol portion of the batch additionally making it easier to avoid water delusion (though with any decent yeast/brewing method your 30 gal catch can will fill before you start having dilution issues anyway, assuming that time and brewing temperatures are right).

Another tip... distillers yeasts tend to produce more methanol than say champagne yeast (biased on my reading anyway) keep that in mind when making your compromises...
Also urea nitrate is about the best yeast nutrient out there (for the money anyway, its the secret part of the mix they don't show on TV) but use sparingly and always distill cleanly (I believe this also increases methanol production)
If all goes well you could easily make about 25-30k a year with this setup (a bit more if you are a greedy asshole)

Ahhhh... I just had a sharegasum.... I love the free exchange of useful/interesting information
Its what makes my country so hot... (she is such a dirty girl)...
"Live free or die" my brothers (to amusingly snipe the motto of my repressive neighbors)

By the way, you can file for a permit to make "alternative fuels" so you don't have to stress about the fuzz... though you might have to pay a highway tax? it should appease the powers that be. After all you aren't getting away untaxed (just don't get caught doing anything illegal, if you do... I sure as hell don't know you..)

Sounds like I'm going to need to do quite a bit or research before I'm ready to attempt any of this. I will have to aquire some heavy duty materials if I want to get real serious about it. This should be fun, I have lots of time in the next couple months to play around. I think the #1 fear should be blowing yourself up, Im not too worried about getting caught(though venting off the gas may be quite smelly for a few hours hmmm).

Where would the 25-30k be coming from? selling the moonshine? Maybe, I'm not sure how big the market is for that, I think its more of a novelty item, so people will love to buy it once but maybe not repeatedly. hmmm I might be able to convert a shitty old dehumidifier for the cause, I will have to do much more research. Between growing weed and distilling moonshine, extracting DMT, growing mushrooms, and various other illegal hobbies you sure do get to learn alot about biology, chemistry, physics, electriciy.

 

[Harrekin]

Wouldn't almost pure THC be almost completely useless for "proper" medical patients? THC alone just gets you really high. Or we talking about the 98% of "stress releasing" medicinal users?

 

[bowlfullofbliss]

BHO is idiot proof, as long as you do it outside. I bought a $15 pyrex apparatus (sp?) that you cram full of your herb, take a coffee filter, and wear a pair of good insulted glover, and hold the filter tightly. Oh, back up a sec.....go to the local head shop, and buy a few cans of 5x filtered butane.....there are several brands that cost between $5 and $15. You put the tip of the butane into the top of the pyrex, and hold down. It will take a few seconds, and all of the sudden it will start to leak pure thc into a pyrex baking dish. Let this go until the liquid is totally clear.

Let this sit outside and evaporate until you have a thin film of pure gold. Put it in barely luke warm water bath to loosen the wax, and scrape it together. Next, scrape the stuff onto parchment paper, and if you have a vaccuum system, put it into one of the jars, and turn it on to remove the butane left over. If you don't have a foodsaver, just keep spreading the wax around, and let it naturally evaporate the leftover butane. Once there are no more bubbles, you're done.

I've had mine lab tested by the dispensary I do business with, and the stuff is almost 80% pure THC, and the strain is high in CBD, can't remeber the number. Get a $10 oil pipe, a glass rod, and a home depot handheld small butane torch, heat the glass rod, toucht he oil, and hold on.......it's incredible. It completly takes away the pain in my back, which is seriously fucked up. I have to take so much oxy it's stupid, but this stuff works better.

There is a sticky somewhere with better instructions, also look for the cannacaps recipe. It takes a lot of work, but holy shit, don't plan on doing much productive....great for a day of your favorite movies or sports, and feeling great. It takes a ton of hash, but worth it!

Fuck.....I need a damn job so I can partake again.....

Good luck!

 

[Guile]

Wouldn't almost pure THC be almost completely useless for "proper" medical patients? THC alone just gets you really high. Or we talking about the 98% of "stress releasing" medicinal users?

I think so... but it would still have its benefits. My motives are not exclusively about my patents, they afford me an opportunity to legally conduct experiments.. I love them for that (passionately support them) and provide free medicine for affording me the opportunity to do so...
I honestly think that many see the "high" as a compelling force in their treatment option... and doubt they would complain if they got a free "high" off of me... As long as it allows me to conduct the research I choose to pursue I really don't see the issue... Do you? I mean it is a win, win situation.. and the research I conduct could benefit many others as a consequence...

Ultimately speaking I have bigger plans of extracting nearly pure CBD and CBN to use in relative ratios with THC to obtain desired effects (or meet patents needs) though I am willing to cross this bridge one step at a time... Lets face it, the industry is all focused on THC so I might as well capitalize on its popularity, right? (its all going to be short lived, we might as well make the gains while we can, besides I might pick up a paying independent consulting gig or some crap)
You and I both know that any valuable advancements I make on the industry as a whole will result from improving the product available already,, (I'm not going to acomplish anything new, just tweak the recipe so to speak, or package it differently)

 

[Guile]

Sounds like I'm going to need to do quite a bit or research before I'm ready to attempt any of this. I will have to aquire some heavy duty materials if I want to get real serious about it. This should be fun, I have lots of time in the next couple months to play around. I think the #1 fear should be blowing yourself up, Im not too worried about getting caught(though venting off the gas may be quite smelly for a few hours hmmm).

Where would the 25-30k be coming from? selling the moonshine? Maybe, I'm not sure how big the market is for that, I think its more of a novelty item, so people will love to buy it once but maybe not repeatedly. hmmm I might be able to convert a shitty old dehumidifier for the cause, I will have to do much more research. Between growing weed and distilling moonshine, extracting DMT, growing mushrooms, and various other illegal hobbies you sure do get to learn alot about biology, chemistry, physics, electriciy.

Nah dude, you can get a stainless steel beer keg for the deposit price (was 20 bucks last time I needed one, hell of a deal really) then you can make a column still out of copper pipe and marbles or showering pads (the plans are on the internet, and they are relatively simple) all you have to do is clamp the 2 together and heat (once your mash had time to ferment first) there is a clamp available to seal things together but a regular ass band clamp for exhaust systems works fine (the wide ones that deform as you tighten them).... I wouldn't bother trying to get pure alcohol (so forget vacuum distillation) you don't want to drink 200 proof booze strait anyway (its way too easy to over do it that way, otherwise just take your time and sip it slowly)

Yeah, by the way, that 25-30k was profit potential for selling liqueur, though you could make around 3-4k a year selling it as fuel (if you have a little economy car or don't do much driving you might never have to by gas again for yourself). just goes to show how much we value a buzz compared to fuel....