Why Do You Hate It So?

[tardis]

So true. Creationists proudly trump out science when it seems, often erroneously, to agree with them. Anytime science disagrees, it becomes an archaic closed minded process bent on spreading Satan's lies.

This morning my roomie and I hit the wrong button on the remote and got a broadcast signal from some christian station. We were baked so we wached for about 10 minutes, until we just couldn't take the absurdity anymore. A man was using vauge bible quotes to interpret recent events as signs of the end of times. The leaps and failures of logic just kept coming and coming. He was telling people that bread would soon cost them an entire days pay. He had charts, facts and figures to backup what he was saying, along with scary visuals. Of course after he explained how we were all headed to a point where money means nothing, he asked for money... I just can't imagine what it's like to be a person like him. To stoop to such a depraved, despicable existence as that. And somehow in the world we live in, this behavior is praised.

However its true about hyperinflation and eggs, milk, and flower in 2011, there is nothing in the bible that says at the end times bread will be more expensive. See he takes something he knows is going to happen already then he claims the bible proves it, then when it comes true the people think he knows how to read the bible, despite the fact the bible says NOTHING about that or any inflation at all.... Its called a magic trick for the stupid. I remember when we had that skirmish with Milosavek back in the day and I saw a minister on tv proclaim loudly "This isn't going to get better, God says this war will get WORSE!!!!" and then the next day the war was over quickly and we pulled out..... Ministers love to look at what they think is most likely coming and claim they know it because its part of Gods will therefore when it happens Gods Will must be real. They don't have to be logical because people who WANT To see proof will beleive it no matter how silly using circular logic that churches teach people to use on themselves. A sort of self hypnosis.

 

[Luger187]

religion can be used to make a certain group hate another group. they use the excuse of "it is gods will". this obviously causes many problems. it becomes ok to kill somebody, because god is on their side. one insane preacher can use the bible to twist the thoughts of his followers. after a while, he can make them believe a certain way. its happened MANY times throughout history.

its just like what the suicide bombers are doing with islam. theyve been taught that this is what god wants, and they will go to heaven for it. they think they are doing gods will. they think they are in the right, when they are so obviously wrong. religion can warp the mind. it is an illusion.
i personally believe it should be gotten rid of, but most americans dont like that idea lol

 

[The Knuck]

religon is reponsible for ALMOST every war since the beginning of time.

 

[undertheice]

-"clearly goes against our physical designs" - So do a lot of other things, but we still accept them. Homosexuality, I believe, is condemned by the majority of society because it is specifically condemned in religious texts as an abomination.

That is some serious hate, and it doesn't only come from our understanding of human anatomy. It couldn't.

The only reason one can find to justify hating homosexuals lies in religious texts.

do you really think the only reason there are prohibitions against homosexuality in human society is religion? take a look around and you'll realize just how ridiculous that sounds. the family unit is an integral part of every advanced society and there is no place in that unit for homosexuality. father, mother, children - that is the basis of most every society. it is simple biology turned into a sociological imperative. in a species with an incredibly long childhood, it provides the stability and protection needed to raise our young. it is a grouping that satisfies all the necessities to continue our existence.

some folks may try to get us to believe that homosexuality is normal, but, even though it occurs elsewhere in nature, it is an aberration wherever it occurs. it is and should be tolerated within just societies, as any other personal choice or compulsion that does no harm, but it goes against the best interests of the species and cannot be considered normal. as with anything that might be considered abnormal, it is bound to fuel disgust, anger and hatred, no matter what the predominant religion may say.

why is it you find it so difficult to understand the simple "ew" factor that drives so much homophobia independent of religion? as a straight male who has had maybe a dozen openly gay acquaintances over the years, i can understand it. it is something that i merely push to the back of my brain and ignore, along with a host of other petty biases. there are a lot of folks, though, who refuse to simply ignore their prejudices and dwell on them instead. this is the origin of homophobia, not the religious texts that only mirror the minds of those it was written for.

-What is the problem with getting rid of every false justification we observe that people can come up with for their actions, including ones that originate from a persons faith?

what's wrong with it is that it ignores the real cause of those actions. it's like popping mints all day to hide your bad breath, but ignoring the rotting teeth and gums that are the cause of the stench. by scapegoating religion, you are giving a pass to the avarice, envy and hatred that motivate the engineers of the world's atrocities. you are denying all that is positive in the philosophies of the world's religions and simply looking for the easiest place to lay the blame.

-I don't support a "Stalinist Soviet Union" type atheistic society, and you know that.

-We are in agreement that Christianity has shaped the US we live in, and organized religion as a whole has shaped society and civilization at large. This has no bearing on anything though, and I believe the good things you can learn from any religion you can attain through other means, no hate or belief in magic required.

of course you don't support those great mass murderers, but those are the examples that come to mind when you speak of atheist societies. it's simply because religion is so deeply ingrained in the human psyche and the only way for a society to rid itself of it, at least in the short run, is through force. people just need something greater than themselves to believe in. if it isn't a god, it will be a man or an ideal. yes the human mind is quite capable of coming to the best conclusions independent of religion, but does he? the individual is quite capable of reasoning through to find the virtuous, but this is a world of mobs and masses and they are moved by more primitive urges. it is naive to believe that the ignorant mob will eschew its tendency toward force, simply because it is in the best interests of society.

you'll keep on pointing out all of these flaws within religion and i'll keep on pointing out that these are the flaws of man. you simply cannot consider religion independent of the societies within which it exists. the ignorance and atrocities you blame on religion are seen to be just as prevalent in its absence. they are the sins of man, not the sins of his invention. you rag on this blind faith as if it were some monster, yet you claim to believe that all this can be achieved through a more scientific method. you assert your faith in science much as a christian or a muslim asserts his faith in the laws of his creed and you see no similarity. you understand so little of the science you adore and have watched as theory after theory is proven wrong and replaced by some other, but still your faith remains unshaken. we have watched through the ages as religion has changed, taking into account the changing attitudes and understandings of its participants, but still you claim that it is incapable of evolving.

i've said it before and i'll say it again - religion may eventually lose its massive popularity and i hope it does, but it will probably never disappear. it offers an absolute in a world of insecurity and man is not quite so advanced as you would like to believe him nor will he most likely ever be. it is a means of ethical education and control and, face it, there are elements of every society that need such control.

 

[mindphuk]

what's wrong with it is that it ignores the real cause of those actions. it's like popping mints all day to hide your bad breath, but ignoring the rotting teeth and gums that are the cause of the stench. by scapegoating religion, you are giving a pass to the avarice, envy and hatred that motivate the engineers of the world's atrocities. you are denying all that is positive in the philosophies of the world's religions and simply looking for the easiest place to lay the blame.

False dichotomy and strawman. No one is scapegoating religion. You misuse the term because it implies that religion is being falsely convicted, it is not. It IS the root reason for many of perceived differences among various groups in all of recorded history. Yes, wealth and power have been also the root of the cause of society's ills but it is much easier to command power when people believe their kings are ordained by a god. It is much more difficult to rile up a nation of atheists by telling them that their neighbor, that share much of their own culture somehow is bad and you have to fight them; something very easy to do when the people are convinced they worship the wrong god. Just because religion has been used as a tool does not relieve it of it's 'sin' of keeping people ignorant. Keep in mind that you mentioned hatred as a motivator yet you don't tend to hate people that you generally agree with. So many instances in history show similar culture after similar culture warring with one another because of minor differences in religious interpretation (Sunni and Shi'a split for example) that would likely be a single unified group if it wasn't for religion.

BTW, in case you didn't figure it out, it is a false dichotomy because one can hold this viewpoint and still agree that religion has had some positive effects on people and culture. This is a point that many people have made so I don't expect you to acknowledge it this time either. The problem is that you somehow think that the positive outweighs the immensely HUGE negatives which Pad and others have continually pointed out (mainly spreading ignorance and falsehoods and war). You seem to want to believe that these negatives are either justified or really don't exist. Although I personally don't believe that you can justify bad behavior by saying it's also responsible for some good, it's this second one where I think you are in denial.

 

[mindphuk]

you'll keep on pointing out all of these flaws within religion and i'll keep on pointing out that these are the flaws of man. you simply cannot consider religion independent of the societies within which it exists. the ignorance and atrocities you blame on religion are seen to be just as prevalent in its absence.

Ridiculous. You don't have enough atheistic societies to make that comparison. Fascism and religion have much in common. You cannot say that Stalin's Russia was atheistic when he puts himself up to worshiped him as a deity. Much easier to substitute nationalism for religion in a people already steeped in the ignorance and customs of religious society. A nation of independent free-thinkers would no more follow a Stalin then they would a Yahweh. Ignorance is the enemy and religion perpetuates it as much as any other dictatorship. Lift the veil, remove the blinders, and people are no longer puppets of whoever is in power.

 

[undertheice]

It IS the root reason for many of perceived differences among various groups in all of recorded history.

for so many supposedly intelligent people to believe such an obvious falsehood shows an immense failure to understand humanity as it is and the power structures that we are willingly controlled by. do men march to war for god and country? no, they are led to war by those they follow. whatever reason their leaders may give these men for the deeds they do, there is always an exchange of power that spurs on these leaders. do men hate because their god tells them to? no, they are taught what and who to hate by those they follow. they are led to hate because there is power in that hatred, their leaders covet that power and use it to gain even more. are men ignorant because they believe in religion? no, they are kept in ignorance by those they follow. they are kept in ignorance because an ignorant man is more easily cowed than a wise one. less power is required to subdue him, so more power remains for his leaders to use on other matters.

power over wealth, power over land, power over men, it is the struggle for power that is the "root reason" for our woes. our philosophies, religion included, are designed only to ease social contact and to help us explain why the world is as it is. that those philosophies are used to gain illicit power is true, but certainly no reason not to continue to use and reinvent them.

You cannot say that Stalin's Russia was atheistic when he puts himself up to worshiped him as a deity. Much easier to substitute nationalism for religion in a people already steeped in the ignorance and customs of religious society.

was stalin revered as a god? no, he was revered as a leader and a man. his was an attempt to replace the superstitions of religion with the superstitions of a cult of personality.

are you going to try to invent a world where superstition never existed? in his most primitive state, man possesses only the most rudimentary logic. the reasoning skills we consider normal took thousands of years to even begin to emerge. man observes and he extrapolates from those observations a world beyond his horizons. his errors and his hopes are what breed superstition. a world without error is impossible. a world without hopes is stagnant and sterile. so good luck with this imaginary world of yours.

 

[stelthy]

RELIGION IS ALL BULLSHIT (ALL) !!! - STELTHY

 

[justlearning73]

OK to say all religion is bad is the same as saying guns kill people, pencils misspell words, and spoons make you fat. Give me a break. People need to be held responsible for their own actions and stop going after scape goats. That is the major problem with our society now a days.

 

[mindphuk]

for so many supposedly intelligent people to believe such an obvious falsehood shows an immense failure to understand humanity as it is and the power structures that we are willingly controlled by. do men march to war for god and country? no, they are led to war by those they follow. whatever reason their leaders may give these men for the deeds they do, there is always an exchange of power that spurs on these leaders. do men hate because their god tells them to? no, they are taught what and who to hate by those they follow. they are led to hate because there is power in that hatred, their leaders covet that power and use it to gain even more. are men ignorant because they believe in religion? no, they are kept in ignorance by those they follow. they are kept in ignorance because an ignorant man is more easily cowed than a wise one. less power is required to subdue him, so more power remains for his leaders to use on other matters.

power over wealth, power over land, power over men, it is the struggle for power that is the "root reason" for our woes. our philosophies, religion included, are designed only to ease social contact and to help us explain why the world is as it is. that those philosophies are used to gain illicit power is true, but certainly no reason not to continue to use and reinvent them.

was stalin revered as a god? no, he was revered as a leader and a man. his was an attempt to replace the superstitions of religion with the superstitions of a cult of personality.

are you going to try to invent a world where superstition never existed? in his most primitive state, man possesses only the most rudimentary logic. the reasoning skills we consider normal took thousands of years to even begin to emerge. man observes and he extrapolates from those observations a world beyond his horizons. his errors and his hopes are what breed superstition. a world without error is impossible. a world without hopes is stagnant and sterile. so good luck with this imaginary world of yours.

Learn some history. Power was willingly given to men for purely religious reasons. The people in power keeping the populace ignorant were the religious leaders. Kings and leaders were often in power only at the whim of the church. You're a fool for thinking religion is innocent in the thirst for blood and power. Most of the wars that have occurred in the last 50 years have some amount of religious motivation behind it. [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica] Just because there is a complex interaction of economic, racial, ethnic, religious, and other factors doesn't mean that things wouldn't improve if religion was pulled from the mix. Ethnic differences are superficial and silly to war over as well and I believe that many of those conflicts could be halted instantaneously if ethnicity could be shown to the people to be just a ignorant as [/FONT]short-sighted as religious differences. This continuing argument of yours that just because religion isn't the sole cause that it somehow should get a pass on the amount of bloodshed that it HAS been responsible for is weak.


Do you actually think there's a big enough cultural differences between Israelis and Arabs if you took Judaism and Islam out of the mix?

If religion was not so much a cause of unrest, why do you think that religious leaders actually think it is? Why would they sign the [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Geneva spiritual appeal?[/SIZE][/FONT] We see denial about it from religious followers all of the time but why would these religious leaders give credence to the claim if it wasn't true? Shouldn't they be denying the connection as well?

The argument is simple. Enlightenment removes the bonds of more than just religious intolerance but ethnic, racial and other forms of intellectual slavery. You are correct of course that the aversion to homosexuals is more than a religious one yet the antidote is the same. An enlightened and a tolerant society has little reason to go to war or oppress others for ANY reason. One of the paths to enlightenment is letting go of certain beliefs, including religionism. I know I personally would be more tolerant of the religionists if they would drop their desire to control other people's behaviors according to their revealed 'truths'

 

[Padawanbater2]

do you really think the only reason there are prohibitions against homosexuality in human society is religion? take a look around and you'll realize just how ridiculous that sounds. the family unit is an integral part of every advanced society and there is no place in that unit for homosexuality. father, mother, children - that is the basis of most every society. it is simple biology turned into a sociological imperative. in a species with an incredibly long childhood, it provides the stability and protection needed to raise our young. it is a grouping that satisfies all the necessities to continue our existence.

some folks may try to get us to believe that homosexuality is normal, but, even though it occurs elsewhere in nature, it is an aberration wherever it occurs. it is and should be tolerated within just societies, as any other personal choice or compulsion that does no harm, but it goes against the best interests of the species and cannot be considered normal. as with anything that might be considered abnormal, it is bound to fuel disgust, anger and hatred, no matter what the predominant religion may say.

why is it you find it so difficult to understand the simple "ew" factor that drives so much homophobia independent of religion? as a straight male who has had maybe a dozen openly gay acquaintances over the years, i can understand it. it is something that i merely push to the back of my brain and ignore, along with a host of other petty biases. there are a lot of folks, though, who refuse to simply ignore their prejudices and dwell on them instead. this is the origin of homophobia, not the religious texts that only mirror the minds of those it was written for.

what's wrong with it is that it ignores the real cause of those actions. it's like popping mints all day to hide your bad breath, but ignoring the rotting teeth and gums that are the cause of the stench. by scapegoating religion, you are giving a pass to the avarice, envy and hatred that motivate the engineers of the world's atrocities. you are denying all that is positive in the philosophies of the world's religions and simply looking for the easiest place to lay the blame.

of course you don't support those great mass murderers, but those are the examples that come to mind when you speak of atheist societies. it's simply because religion is so deeply ingrained in the human psyche and the only way for a society to rid itself of it, at least in the short run, is through force. people just need something greater than themselves to believe in. if it isn't a god, it will be a man or an ideal. yes the human mind is quite capable of coming to the best conclusions independent of religion, but does he? the individual is quite capable of reasoning through to find the virtuous, but this is a world of mobs and masses and they are moved by more primitive urges. it is naive to believe that the ignorant mob will eschew its tendency toward force, simply because it is in the best interests of society.

you'll keep on pointing out all of these flaws within religion and i'll keep on pointing out that these are the flaws of man. you simply cannot consider religion independent of the societies within which it exists. the ignorance and atrocities you blame on religion are seen to be just as prevalent in its absence. they are the sins of man, not the sins of his invention. you rag on this blind faith as if it were some monster, yet you claim to believe that all this can be achieved through a more scientific method. you assert your faith in science much as a christian or a muslim asserts his faith in the laws of his creed and you see no similarity. you understand so little of the science you adore and have watched as theory after theory is proven wrong and replaced by some other, but still your faith remains unshaken. we have watched through the ages as religion has changed, taking into account the changing attitudes and understandings of its participants, but still you claim that it is incapable of evolving.

i've said it before and i'll say it again - religion may eventually lose its massive popularity and i hope it does, but it will probably never disappear. it offers an absolute in a world of insecurity and man is not quite so advanced as you would like to believe him nor will he most likely ever be. it is a means of ethical education and control and, face it, there are elements of every society that need such control.

No. Ignorance plays a key role in prejudice against homosexuals.

It seems you are saying a homosexual family unit couldn't be as effective at raising a child (remind me again why that's the goal in this context?) as a heterosexual family unit. Do you agree or disagree with that?

What's normal is always subjective, you know that UTI. There is no such thing as being objectively normal because each one of us has our own idea of what "normal" means. But I think I know what you mean, which would be an argument ad populum, what the majority think is "normal"...

What is "the best interest of the species" - and would this include sacrificing animals, praying to invisible entities, committing genocide, etc.? The fact that you cannot consider a homosexual person "normal" simply for having a different sexual orientation says a lot, man.. I'd be embarrassed to hold that a position, and you should be too. I consider homosexual people perfectly normal, in every sense of the word, they simply happen to have a different sexual orientation, big deal? Some people like to wear cotton, others denim, wtf? Are the denim wearers abnormal too? Their behavior should be "tolerated", but not encouraged or treated with the same respect... That is how silly this argument sounds to me dude.. This is something these people cannot change, they are not in control of that, can you grasp that? They can't change their sexual orientation any more than you can. This is why it IS normal.

I find it so difficult to understand the "ew" factor because I'm not any more grossed out by two homosexual people than I am by two heterosexual people. They're JUST PEOPLE dude... Who looks at a person and see's their sexual orietnation? Wtf? How is this not on par with being racist?

What is it about homosexual people that grosses you out? Be honest.

"People need something greater than themselves to believe in" - So lets make shit up! ROFL!

You should read up on the mob mentality, how it's created and why it exists.

MP already addressed your "religion doesn't kill people, people kill people" argument.

There are no similarities between the faith I have in science and faith believers have in their religion. One REQURES evidence, the other IGNORES it completely.. With every piece of data collected, my faith in any particular theory grows, it's all these bits and pieces, the nitty gritty bits of science that really thrills me and ENSURES my faith is justified, because there's one critical step involved that organized religions lack, and that is EXPERIMENTATION.

How do you make the claim that I know very little about "the science I adore"? How could you possibly know my knowledge regarding the stuff I talk about on RIU?

The beauty of science is that it always changes. We know we can never know everything, which is why it will always continue.

Organized religions proclaim themselves to be the word of the almighty creator of the universe, when they change, it's basically like they're saying "well yeah, this IS what God said... but I mean, today, the world works a little differently... the big guy knows this... He'll understand...". It takes away all the years of them saying the whole time "This is the word of the LORD, if you question it, YOU DIE!", if I were a believer, if they straight up changed some of their most sacred beliefs to conform to modern society, I'd feel like I got bitch slapped by the hand of Jesus himself. (from the standpoint of a nonbeliever already, THAT would be enough of a reason to question my beliefs..)

You have a very pessemistic opinion of mankinds future, maybe that's another reason we see things so differently, who knows..

No element of society "needs" organized religion.

 

[shaggy2dope]

(Copy) No. Ignorance plays a key role in prejudice against homosexuals.

It seems you are saying a homosexual family unit couldn't be as effective at raising a child (remind me again why that's the goal in this context?) as a heterosexual family unit. Do you agree or disagree with that?-

I say they couldn't only because of the ignorance around the family. The child would probly have to deal with alot more ridicule. Hence being alianated and so goes the cycle. Do i think it's right? No of course not. But that is just how people are it all starts from birth and unless they are taught any different nothing will change. I think religion has served its purpose and we need to leave it behind. I don't think we need religion to tell us to be honest and acountable. But the ingnorance will always be around.... no matter what we do..

 

[PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1]

i don't Hate it,,,Sound's like your the one with conflicting issue's,,,Regaurding the "Reality",,,of modern Religion. I Quit "Organized Religion",,,over 20+Years ago. But I still believe,,,Between Good and Bad".

 

[shaggy2dope]

i don't Hate it,,,Sound's like your the one with conflicting issue's,,,Regaurding the "Reality",,,of modern Religion. I Quit "Organized Religion",,,over 20+Years ago. But I still believe,,,Between Good and Bad".

I don't think there is such a thing as good or bad or black and white. Life is just one big grey area. There are somethings you do that people think you are bad for doing them. But you might not... So who's right??? It's just like religion. F&@k it all

 

[VER D]

i think people take religion mainly the bible to literal n thats why the bash it n say its nothing but fairy tails but if the took the time to read between the lines n didnt take shit so literal then the would see all the bible is way to help understand y or how shit is n im not that real religous but i do know or feel that der is something greater than us out der n their are forces at work that we dont understand

 

[Brazko]

The proponent of good and evil can be disregarded all together, however, all things exist in Positive or, Negative aspects. 1 action always moving in the opposite direction of the other. This is a basic concept and understanding in QP. There is a discernible black and white. We should be learning how to live in the grey, the only problem is the grey area usually goes beyond the comprehension level of most, when concerning the majority of peoples understanding.

So who's right??? Ask the people who live in the Grey

I don't think there is such a thing as good or bad or black and white. Life is just one big grey area. There are somethings you do that people think you are bad for doing them. But you might not... So who's right??? It's just like religion. F&@k it all

 

[Brazko]

I am completely homo friendly, but what grosses me out about having sex with another man is the smell of his funky nuts, ass, and sweat (eww). I've never been in that predicament of having sweaty sex next to a man, but I've played sports all my life and been in locker rooms. A funky woman's locker room is IMO a lot more pleasing to my senses.
Guess it's just my chemistry tho..

What is it about homosexual people that grosses you out? Be honest.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I am completely homo friendly, but what grosses me out about having sex with another man is the smell of his funky nuts, ass, and sweat (eww). I've never been in that predicament of having sweaty sex next to a man, but I've played sports all my life and been in locker rooms. A funky woman's locker room is IMO a lot more pleasing to my senses.
Guess it's just my chemistry tho..

Fair enough, but do you feel that the discomfort you may feel from the idea of two homosexual people having sex justifies the discrimination they deal with? I mean, isn't this kind of a slippery slope? How much other stuff bothers you about people? Does that justify discrimination? If not, then why does it regarding a persons sexual orientation? What's the difference?

 

[Brazko]

It doesn't justify it.. At a younger stage of my life the whole idea of being Gay (masculine wise) was just a nasty taboo thing. I guess just having more experiences and learning more about life has given me greater insight. I personally don't have any discomfort around homosexuals. Well no I still get queasy and can't watch brokeback mountain without closing my eyes, but I have no problem sharing space with somebody who is. A lot of things bother me about people, (ignorance is #1) but I find ways to cope with it. The ignorance people show in discriminating against homosexuals is one of them, but it's not hard to understand why they choose to do so. It goes against the known natural continual life cycle. And in this respect they feel it shouldn't be encouraged. And although I feel it may not be the normal, I understand it is a natural occuring event. I don't believe people choose to become gay but are chemically born that way. I know you posted a thread a while back about a subject on this. I wanted to comment then on it being in my opinion two different kind of homosexuals. One is motivated by sexual stimulation and the other by pure attraction. But that was another thread at another time.

Anyhow, I think the way the rules of law towards gay couples are setup to be discriminating. But so much would have to be put into play to account for such couples. It would be too easy to game the system with two same sex roommates who are not gay but will go that route just to scam the benefits. It is a slippery slope, but the slope isn't slipping towards some kind of rectification. This kind of topic wouldn't even be up for discussion prior to this era. People need to just continue to speak up.. Sorry, but it's a slow process..

Fair enough, but do you feel that the discomfort you may feel from the idea of two homosexual people having sex justifies the discrimination they deal with? I mean, isn't this kind of a slippery slope? How much other stuff bothers you about people? Does that justify discrimination? If not, then why does it regarding a persons sexual orientation? What's the difference?

 

[resinousflowers]

we have all been brainwashed in one way or another.i mean,how do we know what we do now?
we have been told things,read things and been through things that have made us believe what we believe.
alot of what we THINK we know was read from a book.how do we know the person who wrote the book knows what they are talking about.its very rare for any professional in any profession to agree with each other 100%.so whos right and who's wrong?
we pick and choose what we want to believe alot of the time simply because it makes sense to us.and then we believe it to be fact eventhough it may not be.