Issues With Prop 19 Solved! Now we can all Support it.

klmmicro

Well-Known Member
This is interesting. What happens if someone under the age of 21 does get caught right now? My daughter got caught with a small bag and it was a $100 fine and she now has a misdemeanor on her record. The police never asked her where she got it, and neither did I. I just heard the story when they were finished issuing her the ticket and she called me.

She will be able to get her doctor's rec under 215, which will not be effected by 19. This will exempt her from the age restriction based on a medical status. Please, do not bother to try and convince me that 215 will be vacated. It has been hashed through by enough legal minds that say NO to that assertion, the wording is there to protect 215.

Once she turns 21, she can stop paying the doctor her legality fee. All these 18, 19 and 20 year olds' complaining for what? Because they will be able to look forward to turning 21?
 
Another great thing about this bill is that it states that counties and cities can implement it however they want... meaning that they don't have to follow prop19 if they don't want to. There are still counties/cities that REFUSE prop215 patients and don't allow it in there counties. Hell prop215 was passed 14 years ago.... You can ask all the patients and the clubs that just got raided a month ago BY LOCAL & STATE LAW ENFORCEMENT up in Butte County and Chico how well they think this bill is going to protect them, when their city doesn't even want to recognize prop215, let alone the cities that don't recognize prop215 AT ALL.

This is directly from the CANorml website under Local Cultivation Guidelines:

Despite supposed protections of SB 420 and Prop 215, patients may still be arrested if law enforcement suspects they are outside the law, for example, by being involved in illegal sales or distribution, or growing plants with excessive yields.
In general, the state Attorney General has given local authorities discretion in how they enforce Prop. 215, as explained in a letter to local law enforcement officials.

Wow, since there is so much confusion over prop215 and counties, I can't WAIT to have all the counties also deciding for themselves what they want to do with this!
Also, since its a constitutional amendment, once its in, ITS IN! No more "fixing it afterwards". And don't use the Supreme Court excuse for changing the law like one person did with me, trying to use Prop8 as an example that amendment's can be changed. Prop8 was a CIVIL RIGHTS issue, therefore it was no doubt that it was going to be THROWN OUT, not CHANGED. You CANT create a constitutional amendment that TAKES rights away from a MINORITY (for the person stating that bills are written for "the masses", when in fact, most constitutional amendements are written for minorities...), because that in itself is unconstutional. The Supreme Court saw that, knew it was bullshit, and so they COMPLETELY THREW OUT PROP8, nothing was amended to it. Once a bill is voted in by the people, it either a) Stays in or b) gets thrown out. There is no changing it, as pro-prop19 would want you to believe. SB420 being thrown out is all the proof you need of this...

Also, for anyone that wants to use the bullshit excuse of that I'm somehow making $ off of prop19 failing, that is complete bullshit, because I STRICTLY grow for PERSONAL between my wife & I, and I have NEVER profited off of cannabis in ANYWAY. I just see how much of a bullshit bill this is.

This will be the last time that I post this argument, because I've posted it 3 times in this thread already, and NONE of the pro-19 people even responded to it, they would rather ignore it I guess, and continue to think that prop19 is some great bill that is going to make cali a weed haven for all cannabis related prisoners, and we will be dancing in the streets as the STATE & LOCAL cops continue to raid LAW ABIDING citizens (like is what happening with 215 currently).
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
Where's my Chippy? said:
"Also, for anyone that wants to use the bullshit excuse of that I'm somehow making $ off of prop19 failing, that is complete bullshit, because I STRICTLY grow for PERSONAL between my wife & I, and I have NEVER profited off of cannabis in ANYWAY. I just see how much of a bullshit bill this is."
If this is true, then why do you not support P19? P19 makes it legal to grow for your own consumption. It is currently illegal to grow.
 

mr2shim

Well-Known Member
If this is true, then why do you not support P19? P19 makes it legal to grow for your own consumption. It is currently illegal to grow.
Because the people who don't support p19 are idiots. Especially the ones that grow for personal use now.
 

mccumcumber

Well-Known Member
You can amend amendments btw. Or make another amendment that destroys the previous one. Here's one for example: Alcohol Prohibition. Any constitution can have any part of it amended. This whole once it's in IT'S IN bullshit is getting annoying. Take a government class please.
 

joeh3000

Member
I've noticed there have been many raids recently here in cali but I believe that is do to the fact the Feds are nervous about this and are feeling the pressure. It's a great thing knowing Prop. 19 will make a law preventing police from ever messing with you or any "lawfully cultivated" cannabis. People that have any kind of relation to cannabis should vote YES! SHAME ON THOSE WHO DON'T!
 
I am a prop215 patient (I actually do have a very real medical condition), so I can already grow legally.

I just see how much harm this bill can do, as opposed to good. I see a lot of people loosing jobs because of it, I see how it is very wishy-washy with wording. I don't like the fact that its being "Taxed, regulated, & CONTROLLED".

I don't really think that the "idea" is to vote in ANY law that concerns cannabis, JUST BECAUSE it involves cannabis. There is a much better bill that could have a shot in 2 years, I can wait for that. I've done my time in jail and know that it sucks to have to wait 2 more years, but hey, you knew from the start that what you were doing was illegal, and that the consquenses for those actions were highly real. I'm not saying that I support locking up and jailing people for doing nothing more than growing a plant, but what I am saying that you knew what you were doing had very real consquences if you were busted. Thats the point of being a political prisoner, unfortunatly, you have to serve time in jail.

I want the plant to be FREE, not "REGULATED AND CONTROLLED". That would REALLY cut out the black market, if thats what the government and the people behind this bill really want to see. If every single person was FREELY allowed to grow and do what they wanted with this plant without capital involved (and "concidently" there is a bill trying to get this to happen in 2012..) This bill is just taking the money away from the "illegal" black market mafia, and putting it into the hands of the "legal" free market Mafia. Sorry, but I am more concerned about what our government can and will do to this plant, than any mom & pop grower. Because the decisions that the government makes effect me (and everyone else) directly, not the profits that growers are getting. I may be idealistic, but I am realistic enough to know that a bill is trying to go on the ballots in 2012 that is 100 times better than prop19. One that will ACTUALLY free the plant (like Jack Herer has supported), not some band aid like this bill is offering that will make the extremely rich richer and the people just getting by poorer. I don't think that the pro-19 crowd really wants to see this plant free, but controlled and regulated, obviously, because that is the bill title that they are voting for. I am not a capitalist, I am an anarchist, sorry.

And if you don't think that by 2012 we will have the numbers to get that bill passed, then you obviously know nothing of human evolution and the "Doubling of Knowledge" as its known in Quantum Mechanics. The world is getting SMARTER as time goes on. Think of how much more freedom we have now as opposed to just 15 years ago, let alone thousands of years ago. Think of all the information that we are being saturated with daily (the internet being an amazing example, anyone can find out anything without any gatekeepers to that information, within a click of a button). And as time goes on we are learning more and more and knowledge keeps getting vaster and vaster. Think of how far we've come just since the 1960's with EVERYTHING (homosexual rights, black rights, womens rights, abortion rights, cannabis rights, drug rights). We are COLLECTIVELY (as a planet) getting SMARTER, not dumber, and we are moving in a direction towards more and more freedom and information. Hell, they have even been approving scientific research into psychedelics. But then again, I am an optimist, sorry that I can't be more pessimistic about the future like most people. :)
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
"I may be idealistic, but I am realistic enough to know that a bill is trying to go on the ballots in 2012 that is 100 times better than prop19. One that will ACTUALLY free the plant (like Jack Herer has supported), not some band aid like this bill is offering that will make the extremely rich richer and the people just getting by poorer. I am not a capitalist, I am an anarchist, sorry."

Cool. So vote for P19 now, and then vote for the "100 times better" bill in 2012. Best of both worlds.:clap:
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
"Think of how far we've come just since the 1960's with EVERYTHING (homosexual rights, black rights, womens rights, abortion rights, cannabis rights, drug rights)."

The drug war kicked into high gear since the 1960s, we have certainly not "gone far" unless you mean loss of civil liberties and an increase in tyranny.

Oh, by the way, p19 will not affect your p215 rights, but you already knew that because it has been said here hundreds of times (and backed up up with legal analysis, and by the specific wording of p19).
 

Burger Boss

Well-Known Member
Mr. Chips! You Sir, play fast and loose with the truth!:

"Okay, how come I'm legally allowed to brew as much beer/alcohol as I like on my property for personal use?"

Wrong! Not allowed in some states, and in others you are allowed 100 gallons. >> http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes

"There are still counties/cities that REFUSE prop215 patients and don't allow it in there counties."

Wrong! Every Ca county is in compliance with prop 215. >> http://www.safeaccessnow.net/countyguidelines.htm

Why do you naysayers keep coming with these crappy little lies? It certainly doesn't serve your side very well.....BB
 

mr2shim

Well-Known Member
I can tell some of you guys are idealists, you really should take some lessons in realism. If you honestly think marijuana is ever going to be legal but not taxed or controlled you are seriously delusional.
 
"Think of how far we've come just since the 1960's with EVERYTHING (homosexual rights, black rights, womens rights, abortion rights, cannabis rights, drug rights)."

The drug war kicked into high gear since the 1960s, we have certainly not "gone far" unless you mean loss of civil liberties and an increase in tyranny.

Oh, by the way, p19 will not affect your p215 rights, but you already knew that because it has been said here hundreds of times (and backed up up with legal analysis, and by the specific wording of p19).
Wow, that is a pretty ignorant thing to say. So I guess the end of segregation, womens rights, homosexuals getting married, prop 215 (along with many other MMJ states), research into psychedelics, the right to an abortion, those are all non-progressive?
 
I can tell some of you guys are idealists, you really should take some lessons in realism. If you honestly think marijuana is ever going to be legal but not taxed or controlled you are seriously delusional.
Well of course it'll never happen with an attitude like that. Must suck to be such a pessimist. Sorry, I refuse to lower myself to that standard. There have been many studies that prove that optimists live at least 19% longer than pessimists, maybe you should try it!

I also honestly believe that one day Capitalism will fall, like all other empires. You're views are very Americentric. You should look to see whats happening in most parts of Europe (Greece, espically), which gives me great hope for the future. The entire globe isn't America, sorry (at least not yet, I know that the government would love it to be). :)
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
Wow, that is a pretty ignorant thing to say. So I guess the end of segregation, womens rights, homosexuals getting married, prop 215 (along with many other MMJ states), research into psychedelics, the right to an abortion, those are all non-progressive?
I was talking about the drug war. Arrests for MJ possession are higher today than they ever have been.
 
Mr. Chips! You Sir, play fast and loose with the truth!:

"Okay, how come I'm legally allowed to brew as much beer/alcohol as I like on my property for personal use?"

Wrong! Not allowed in some states, and in others you are allowed 100 gallons. >> http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes

"There are still counties/cities that REFUSE prop215 patients and don't allow it in there counties."

Wrong! Every Ca county is in compliance with prop 215. >> http://www.safeaccessnow.net/countyguidelines.htm

Why do you naysayers keep coming with these crappy little lies? It certainly doesn't serve your side very well.....BB
Well, I suppose your right about Homebrewing, but I am still allowed to possess as much alcholoe as I want legally. Just because I can't homebrew it doesn't mean that I can't go buy out an entire liquor store, which under prop19 would limit me to only 1 ounce of weed.

Also, thats GREAT that its recognized "legally" in every county in CA! Now go tell that to Butte County that just raided heavily last month, then they'll tell you just how "legal" it "really" is there.
 
I was talking about the drug war. Arrests for MJ possession are higher today than they ever have been.
So is the rate of use.....

That has nothing to do with how progressive the actual laws and peoples opinions towards these drugs has changed since then. I'm not doubting that law enforcements bread & butter are marijuana/drug related. But the peoples actions (not the governments) are extremely progressive. The government is living in the stone age among dinosaurs, there is no doubt about that. But the government doesn't represent the will of all the people, which polls have showed are mainly progressive in thinking (remember I'm talking about on a GLOBAL scale; get your head outta strictly America...)
 

klmmicro

Well-Known Member
Weren't the Butte County raids Federal? No state prop will stop the feds from raiding and we can expect them to really step up the federal enforcement if there are no proposed limits in possession. Seriously, this is going to be a gradual chipping away at the camp that has set up the current federal prohibition laws. They will not easily release their grasp after nearly 90 years of having it their way.

You can have all the support you want in 2012...there will be a federal judge that vacates the entire thing with the stroke of a pen within a couple of days. For that, Prop 19 will probably suffer the same fate, but it can be used as a rallying cry to garner more support for any 2012 Prop...
 
Weren't the Butte County raids Federal? No state prop will stop the feds from raiding and we can expect them to really step up the federal enforcement if there are no proposed limits in possession. Seriously, this is going to be a gradual chipping away at the camp that has set up the current federal prohibition laws. They will not easily release their grasp after nearly 90 years of having it their way.

You can have all the support you want in 2012...there will be a federal judge that vacates the entire thing with the stroke of a pen within a couple of days. For that, Prop 19 will probably suffer the same fate, but it can be used as a rallying cry to garner more support for any 2012 Prop...
Nope, it was all local law enforcement. 100 officers from 2 dozen agencies, to be exact. They don't give a fuck what's "law" and what isn't. "Law" is what the government and enforcement say it is. Their entire clubs were smashed and all product taken. Yeah, they may get it back in courts, but its a hassle, and they had to stay closed for a while. And who would wanna even stay open after something like that? It's scare tactics, and they work great...

http://www.modbee.com/2010/07/01/1234331/8-chico-dispensaries-raided-in.html
 
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