Water Cooled Lights! Liquid Lumens! Fresca Sol!

What to buy?

  • FRESCA SOL!

    Votes: 19 30.6%
  • LIQUID LUMENS!

    Votes: 19 30.6%
  • OTHER WATER COOLED LIGHT SYSTEM!

    Votes: 5 8.1%
  • I HATE WATER COOLED LIGHTS!

    Votes: 19 30.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .

1freezy

Well-Known Member
Damn Al B. you lay stuff out well. I might hire you in the fall if you want a job when I finish my gaming website!

Anyways I agree the guy was very careless instead of careful.

Anyone actually know anyone with these besides the setup I've seen in the store! I'm determined to get one. Even if I don't use it one day it will be an antique!
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Damn Al B. you lay stuff out well. I might hire you in the fall if you want a job when I finish my gaming website!
gee thanks... but there's not enough money in the world to get me to work on a website, whether about computer gaming or even worse, gambling. I already run several websites, computer games annoy me and I firmly believe gambling is a tax on people who are bad at maths.

Anyone actually know anyone with these besides the setup I've seen in the store! I'm determined to get one. Even if I don't use it one day it will be an antique!
oh... so you started the thread sold on this product; were looking for others to tell you how wonderful these water bottles are; that didn't work, you're still sold on the product and now are going to buy one anyway despite the best advice of some of the most experienced growers on this website; now employing the canard that you're going to buy one anyway... and... just... not.... use... it. :roll:

Ponderous. Absolutely ponderous. :-?
 

1freezy

Well-Known Member
gee thanks... but there's not enough money in the world to get me to work on a website, whether about computer gaming or even worse, gambling. I already run several websites, computer games annoy me and I firmly believe gambling is a tax on people who are bad at maths.

oh... so you started the thread sold on this product; were looking for others to tell you how wonderful these water bottles are; that didn't work, you're still sold on the product and now are going to buy one anyway despite the best advice of some of the most experienced growers on this website; now employing the canard that you're going to buy one anyway... and... just... not.... use... it. :roll:

Ponderous. Absolutely ponderous. :-?
Well you will be very disappointed that my site is a Video Game Gambling website.

As for the light set up I was looking for opinions and advice from everyone but also wanted to see some one who has one. It seems nobody has one and all I hear is bad things. I guess it just helps me inside to hear it sucks from some who has or had one.

It seems I buy stuff just to have it. Like my bread maker, mountain bike, jacuzzi, an many other random things! I always think I want it an will use it an then -- work, sports, family, or whatever occurs and what ever I get just sits around. Despite my sometimes poor decision making in the past I value what I have read. That is what made me decide to buy 1 - 400watt not 2 - 1000watt. This will allow me to keep my other grows going right now. :idea:Then when I have time I will setup a new small experiment in another room.

Don't bash me to hard for this!?!:-|


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Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
I guess it just helps me inside to hear it sucks from some who has or had one.
Do you have to jump off a cliff to prove you can't fly, too? Unlikely anyone will jump for you.

It's possible to use your logical facilities to extrapolate conclusions- and when it's the difference between an air-cooled cooltube, a length of duct and a 35 watt blower, which together cost under $200- against a water cooled cooltube (which has the potential to leak internally and destroy the lamp tube and possibly the ballast), along with all the plumbing, one 55gal tank of water per 1000W light AND a 430 watt, '1/4 hp chiller' which combined repute to cost $1400, it's fair to say that one's better than the other.

Don't bash me to hard for this!?!:-|
nah, I don't really have anything else to say- you wouldn't listen anyway.

Sayonara.
 
Last edited:

1freezy

Well-Known Member
Well just got back from the Bahamas and fortunately for me there our no cliffs in Freeport. I had time to clear my head or make it fuzzy with liquor either way I agree now the air cooled is much better, but I like being different an your right I don't listen well. I do except the reasons an logic so water cooled is not the best Idea. Now that thats over I admit I like doing the wrong thing thats what has got me this far and I'm loving it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

notyourkind

Well-Known Member
Yeah I know, this is an old post, and I dont care. There is a grower on here named RidgeGoo (er something like that) that ran a return line from a 1000 watt'd Fresca Sol through a Ford F150 radiator and was able to cool the 55 gallon resevoir to around 88 degrees and keep it there. Maybe there are people on these boards who are not confident enough in their rigging skills to safely fasten a couple line clamps to some hoses, but that is no reason to bash innovation. I have had one for a few months and have had no problems. It is not unlike any other system where you would have to work out the kinks before you fully understand what it does for heat removal and how to maintain it. The people who say "Air Cooled is the only way, Water Cooled is a totally unnecessary technology" are the same people who once said "Oh, Yaah those digital ballasts suck shit... Magnetic ballasts are the only way to fly". You should know that there are history books filled with negative people who mindlessly bashed innovation over their tried and tested (outdated) crap. "A square wheel works just fine, why the Hell should we shave the corners off to go faster? What is this circle bullshit?!?!" They act as if some chinese made inline fan is impervious to failure. Fans die all the time. And then what? then you have a room that is 100 degrees, filled with damaged goods. Shit happens... If Liquid Cooling is such horse-shit then why would an established intelligent company like Hydrofarm spend so much time or money on research and development on such a thing? Liquid Lumens is just an air coolable Fresca Sol. And whoever explained the whole thing on FLIR here was sorely mistaken. Forward Looking Infra Radar now has the ability to see past many feet of material to spot heat sources. There is lots of info out there to support this fact. Yeah, you could expell your air to the outdoors but you would forgoe your legal "heat privacy" by making it legal for law enforcement to detect your heat soucre then use that evidence against you. Once a peculiar heat source is visible either by FLIR or by the naked eye, they have everything they need to obtain a warrant. Its like garbage bags on your curb - once on the curb it is now public property & legal for them to snoop through your trash.

So in in closing I would like to say that liquid cooling is an ingenious way to disipate heat and stay way beneath the radar. If you are not worried about that kind of thing then blow your air anywhere you want. Hell, if you think Infrared Radar or Thermal Imaging cannot penetrate walls to incredible depths, then dont use any heat removal at all. Those technologies have become abundantly affordable now. My neighbor now has one, just to play with. Big deal, water is passing over electrical. Do you worry about that every time you drop an electric water pump right into a resevoir? No.. Some of those pumps are over a hundred watts easy - mine is. Anyways, the Liquid Cooled system is the shit - if any of these bashers had one they would know. Air cooled is still a viable means of exhausting heat, but it cannot localize the heat to a small tub of water, nestled away from the prying eyes of the law.

So lets review:
1) No more heat sig
2) Allows closer placement of light(s) to tops
3) Substantially lowers air conditioning costs in the summer
4) Allows for more intense lighting wattages in much smaller spaces
5) Doesnt fill attics with hot air which shows up easily on FLIR/THI while it escapes through small vents on rooftops
6) Pisses off old grumpy hippies who are stuck in their old ways
7) Looks cool as fuck hanging over your plants
8) There is no eight.... I just cant shut the fuck up right now. HAAaaa!!!

Anyway, the Liquid Cooled fixture ran through the cheap ass car radiator is the way for me. I dont care what anyone says - it works great!:bigjoint:

Peace - NYK
 

Attachments

1freezy

Well-Known Member
The car radiator looks nice do you just have the fan blowing on it? I run mine in & out a doggie door I installed to a hours troth thats about 90 gallons but yours looks fairly simple. I like the idea!
 

Davis

Active Member
I've used both Liquid Lumens and Fresca Sol, and I've used air cooling extensively.

I find it kind of funny when people compare liquid to air cooling based on the same exact criteria. It's not comparing apples to apple, more like apples to oranges. Each cooling system has it's inherit benefits and it's inherit drawbacks.

Having used liquid and air to cool I can say both are very effective. Liquid cooling is way more expensive to set up, but it allows you to grow in spaces where air cooling is impossible or undesirable. Air cooling is cheap and simple to set up, but there is fan noise and hot exhaust.

You do need a sizable reservoir for liquid cooling which takes up space. I've never had my reservoir in the grow room, rather it's in a neighboring room along with the chiller and ballasts (both sources of heat). With air cooling I've always hated hanging all the insulated exhaust ducting. But ducting is easier to set up than the plumbing required for liquid cooling. If air finds a leak in your system, so what - if water finds a leak in your system, you HAVE to deal with it.

Personally, I prefer liquid cooling. But when money is tight, and I have access to an attic I will use air cooling in a pinch.

Air cooling is way more forgiving than liquid cooling. It's important to look beyond the light/vessel/reflector assembly and consider each cooling system as just that: a "system," rather than a single "product." There is no silver bullet solution to heat removal. And even though liquid cooling is far superior to air cooling base on efficacy alone, it has it's drawbacks in other areas such as cost and complexity.

Liquid Lumens and Fresca Sol are not hoaxes as some people make them out to be.

Cheers, and happy growing!
 

ColdFlo

Active Member
If money were no option, Davis, which one do you like better?

Since Liquid Lumens is thicker we can assume that it cuts down the PAR watts(lumens) a little more. So can you put it closer to the plants?(6 inches is already very close or is it light burn at this range?) Fresca Sol is cheaper but does this mean it has a weaker IR profile possibly leading to a FLIR bust or could this be solved with a chiller and or radiator? Questions here stem if you have the radiator indoors are you really achieving anything?, because to truly hide the heat from cops it would have to be in the ground or pool or nearby body of water. Notice in that video where the guy blows his head off in FLIR video in backyard with shotty you cant see the heat signature of his body inside the car but we also know that FLIR cameras can see through walls as they are much more sensitive and the lights are hotter for that kind of detection but i'm sure they have trouble looking through moving chilled water and 2 feet of soil sand and or clay. FLIR cameras even in an insulated house can see the heat of an attic or entire home being hotter than other houses so i dont think putting your res or a radiator inside the home is intelligent and above ground outside the home is even less intelligent (the res chiller could sit in a window and be plausible but if it were putting out too much heat they could get you not to mention that in winter months it would be a sore thumb sure to get you a warrant). I think the best outdoor radiator would be one placed in the ground or even better a body of water or pool where the pool is constantly cycling through a heat exchanger with lights on, pool waterfall would be nice. My worry with in the ground is could they see it in the grass? Radiant heat tubing in the backyard would be nice but would the chopper see the area in the backyard hotter? I suppose a res would be worse in this situation(of course it is new and something not looked for as yet). Also in cold climates radiant in the backyard would not be a good idea. Even a res in the backyard the tubing could freeze( or be much more visible to FLIR). Good thing I don't have those problems but many will.
 

Davis

Active Member
Lumen reduction is really a non-issue with liquid-cooled lights. The lumen increase that get from moving your lights closer (within 6" or so) is almost reason enough to go with liquid-cooling.

Your concerns about FLIR are pretty extreme. With that kind of paranoia, I would suggest you grow with CFL's. j/k.

Pool water is the absolute best option. It's already got the chlorine in it to avoid algae build growth, and the volume of a pool is enough to cool at least a dozen lights.

If I had to choose between the two manufactures, it would be tough. First of all, Liquid Lumens is about to announce a new MSRP of under $400 - Fresca Sol only dropped their price because LL arrived in the market. LL are a little more efficient than FS since they have the thicker water wall, but FS have the long, threaded bars that ensure the ends wont slip. But LL has better gaskets to prevent leak. Ultimately, I would go with LL.

And I would simply put my chiller/res in a different room of the house.

Cheers.
 

fat sam

Well-Known Member
they are a cool idea i just dont think i need my lights 5" from the plants...shit i would loose a shitload of coverage, i mean shit my air cooled 600's at 18 inches do just fine, and panhead your right on about the cops hahaha.... i can see it now....they were growing a super dangerous SKUNK weed
 

uptosumpn

Well-Known Member
ok, so what about this....I have been very interested in this water cooled thing for a while, but have just been weighing my opyions for about 4mo. I'm stuck on the air cooled style, but I think water cooling is better...with that said, here's what i wanna go with.....any and all opinions and suggestions are welcome......I was thinking about getting 2 Ice Box Heat Exchangers by Hydroinnovations, heres a link to it....http://www.hydroinnovations.com/product3.htm... hooked up to a 1/4hp or 1/2hp water chiller, via a 50gal resorvior,[which will be insulated] with 2 800gph pumps, {for better water flow on each Ice Box} (1 on each end of a radiant 6 reflector with a 293cfm TD-150 S&P in-line fan)...the first one will cool the 1000hps light and the other with an thermostat attached, (to act as an A/C) will cool surrounding room with exiting/exhausting air and supply cool air for active intake via a 160cfm duct booster fan and supply re-circulating cool air for air intake for light again...(recirculating) all to cool a 56" x 56" x 78.75" tent with the help of an oscallating tower fan for air circulation/movement and a 440cfm windtunnel exhaust fan connected to a can66 for odors(scrubbing) So, whatta ya guys think??? BTW will be growing 20-30 autos in 3gal bags, using Co2 boost bucket... so the 1000 is a must and need to keep that tent cool in hot ass S.Fla....
 

budleydoright

Well-Known Member
I installed a fresca sol light about 3 months ago and am loving it. I went with the fresca design because it is a simpler design. I'm running a 1k hps in a 4 foot cube.
I am using a 96 gallon rez that was a trash tote from lowes. I also fabricated my own chiller from a 100.00 window AC unit. I run my water at 60. Overall I spent less on my water cooled setup than a cooltube and 6"fan.

I have more information on my setup at verticalgreen.org.
 
So these are garbage? The Liquid Lumens? What cooling system is far superior, and would you recomend? It seems that if this system works and the lights down then the yeild would go up all things equal? What have you folks had the most success with in cooling your lights and room? The liquid lumens are expensive, but maybe worth it?
 

Jurb

Active Member
What about a completely sealed room with just a 3T ac?
how would this compare to a room with cooled lights? either air or water.
 
The right way to to build a water cooled indoor garden
Most gardeners are not familiar with a water cooled indoor garden, and that makes perfect sense . You ask why would you consider water cooling your garden? Or why change conventional way air cooling or even the need for cooling ? We all know that heat can be a problem with indoor gardens and high energy bills can add up and noise from fans and other air cooled methods, so with that in mind, water cooling can be the solution. The whole basic concept behind water cooling is used in are everyday life and you did not even realize it , from transportation such as your car, motorcycle, rv, boat, pwc or nuclear power plant for electricity . If you have energy most likely you will
have heat exhausted from the energy, and this is just part of using energy. The energy you use cost money, unless you have big solar system or a wind turbine with a great deal of battery storage and the start up cost can be a little overwhelming for the average gardener , so save energy and save money.

Water cooled technology has been been around for a least twenty years and is not a new break through , but improved methods of water cooling and more reliable systems are improve everyday and that is where we need to share are knowledge with you the beginner or the professional gardener. Think of the water as a passage way for energy in this case it will be heat energy , you will transfer this heat energy from the your h.i.d. bulb into the water by surrounding the bulb in water with out making contact between the two. The water will absorb the energy and will transfer the heat energy to reservoir via the water, if you do not have a large reservoir your water will heat up and the water cooling will be less effective. The key part here is to remove the heat energy from the water before returning it to your reservoir , you can do this with a heat exchanger, all a heat exchanger is a radiator with a fan blowing air through it, removing heat energy from the water . This heat exchanger or heat-x-tractor will work long as the air you are passing through it is cooler than water you are trying to cool , if it isn't cooler it can actually heat the water up, so keep that in mind when considering a heat exchanger . With the ideal conditions you can operate your water cooled grow lights on a minimal size reservoir like a five gallon bucket. Key part of this is to remove heat energy from water before returning it to reservoir. You can add more cooling such as a chiller or use the ground (Geo Thermal), cool air at night blowing through a heat exchanger or heat-x-tractor, central air system passing through a heat exchanger to remove heat energy if needed. A water cooled grow light will average a 3-4 degree increase in operating temperature , more than the water you are using too cool the fixture. For example you are using 70 degree fahrenheit water to cool your light the operating temp will average 73- 74 degree warmer, these test done with a 1000 hps. The ideal water temp for a hot summer day would be 60-70 degree , but you will have to consider the due point, because going lower than the due point will make your water cooled fixture sweat . You can lower your due point with a dehumidifier and achieve cooled temps if needed. Your water cooled system will only run as cool as the water you are passing though the system, so keep this in mind as you design your own water cooled system.
A water cooled system will work good and be dependable , but there are key factors that come in to play such as how much volume of water flow , the type hose you use to plumb you system , placement of reservoir , light cycle , ambient temperature for garden and ph level of reservoir . We will address all these issues ,so you will have a better understanding how to set up a smooth dependable water cooled garden .
To circulate water through the system you will need some sort of a pump, the pump makes all the difference in a water cooled system . You can use a low budget pump
and could run your water cooled fine , but you are trying to save money in the wrong area , it's like buying a high end sport car and putting on cheap tire's . We recommend
purchasing a larger pump than necessary, quality pump, quiet, low energy consumption are good things to look for. A submersible pump will work great and we recommend
those for a small systems , for a larger system such as four lights and above we strongly encourage you to look into a inline pump, like koi pond pump or a small jacuzzi pump. A inline pump will stay dry, because it is not submerge in water and they usually last for years. When installing your pump make sure to plumb the pump at the bottom of the water supply . Plumbing the pump at the low point of the water supply will allow the weight of the water from your reservoir to assist your pump and give you better flow. Removing all the air from your plumping is very critical , because your pump will not work correctly. Air in your system can cause air lock preventing any flow at all or slow down the flow and make you pump work harder. You can actually use a garden hose with city water pressure to remove a majority air from your system , by hooking up the garden hose with some sort of hose adapter, most likely 5/8" to 1/2" . Making sure all hose clamps are tighten on system, do not try to cut corners this can get messy , now slowly turn on city water allowing air to escape from return line back to the reservoir. Be patient with opening up city water to full flow can take up to few minutes, when you removed the majority of the air, it is now time to open up all the way and let water run for a few minutes or more. This a great way to fill up reservoir , make sure not overfill or forget this will cause a nice flood. This a great time to look for leaks or weak connections because with this amount of pressure if your system is going to fail , it would most likely happen now. High volume low pressure is how it works , 15 pounds of water pressure is maximum for this system to run on a everyday circumstances , when bleeding your system it is auk to apply more pressure just be cautious. The purpose of high volume is it will remove more heat and it will keep the water cooled fixtures cleaner from algae growth and particle build up.
 

Dowd1

Well-Known Member
When you quote someone else's writing, you ALWAYS credit the source, right along with the quotation.

When you post someone else's writing as though YOU had written it, it's called plagiarism- literary theft- and it's a REAL quick way (around these parts) to being fully disrespected. Do it as part of schoolwork and you may find yourself expelled. Do it as part of a job and someone may sue your (or your company's) socks off. The writer OWNS those words.
Thank you for the plagiarism lesson but c'mon this isnt school and this is not your workplace so just cause you didnt get credit doesnt meen he was disrespecting you.and i dont think anybody is gonna sue based on what someone has wrote on a marijuana growing sight
lighten up
 

Dowd1

Well-Known Member
The right way to to build a water cooled indoor garden
Most gardeners are not familiar with a water cooled indoor garden, and that makes perfect sense . You ask why would you consider water cooling your garden? Or why change conventional way air cooling or even the need for cooling ? We all know that heat can be a problem with indoor gardens and high energy bills can add up and noise from fans and other air cooled methods, so with that in mind, water cooling can be the solution. The whole basic concept behind water cooling is used in are everyday life and you did not even realize it , from transportation such as your car, motorcycle, rv, boat, pwc or nuclear power plant for electricity . If you have energy most likely you will
have heat exhausted from the energy, and this is just part of using energy. The energy you use cost money, unless you have big solar system or a wind turbine with a great deal of battery storage and the start up cost can be a little overwhelming for the average gardener , so save energy and save money.

Water cooled technology has been been around for a least twenty years and is not a new break through , but improved methods of water cooling and more reliable systems are improve everyday and that is where we need to share are knowledge with you the beginner or the professional gardener. Think of the water as a passage way for energy in this case it will be heat energy , you will transfer this heat energy from the your h.i.d. bulb into the water by surrounding the bulb in water with out making contact between the two. The water will absorb the energy and will transfer the heat energy to reservoir via the water, if you do not have a large reservoir your water will heat up and the water cooling will be less effective. The key part here is to remove the heat energy from the water before returning it to your reservoir , you can do this with a heat exchanger, all a heat exchanger is a radiator with a fan blowing air through it, removing heat energy from the water . This heat exchanger or heat-x-tractor will work long as the air you are passing through it is cooler than water you are trying to cool , if it isn't cooler it can actually heat the water up, so keep that in mind when considering a heat exchanger . With the ideal conditions you can operate your water cooled grow lights on a minimal size reservoir like a five gallon bucket. Key part of this is to remove heat energy from water before returning it to reservoir. You can add more cooling such as a chiller or use the ground (Geo Thermal), cool air at night blowing through a heat exchanger or heat-x-tractor, central air system passing through a heat exchanger to remove heat energy if needed. A water cooled grow light will average a 3-4 degree increase in operating temperature , more than the water you are using too cool the fixture. For example you are using 70 degree fahrenheit water to cool your light the operating temp will average 73- 74 degree warmer, these test done with a 1000 hps. The ideal water temp for a hot summer day would be 60-70 degree , but you will have to consider the due point, because going lower than the due point will make your water cooled fixture sweat . You can lower your due point with a dehumidifier and achieve cooled temps if needed. Your water cooled system will only run as cool as the water you are passing though the system, so keep this in mind as you design your own water cooled system.
A water cooled system will work good and be dependable , but there are key factors that come in to play such as how much volume of water flow , the type hose you use to plumb you system , placement of reservoir , light cycle , ambient temperature for garden and ph level of reservoir . We will address all these issues ,so you will have a better understanding how to set up a smooth dependable water cooled garden .
To circulate water through the system you will need some sort of a pump, the pump makes all the difference in a water cooled system . You can use a low budget pump
and could run your water cooled fine , but you are trying to save money in the wrong area , it's like buying a high end sport car and putting on cheap tire's . We recommend
purchasing a larger pump than necessary, quality pump, quiet, low energy consumption are good things to look for. A submersible pump will work great and we recommend
those for a small systems , for a larger system such as four lights and above we strongly encourage you to look into a inline pump, like koi pond pump or a small jacuzzi pump. A inline pump will stay dry, because it is not submerge in water and they usually last for years. When installing your pump make sure to plumb the pump at the bottom of the water supply . Plumbing the pump at the low point of the water supply will allow the weight of the water from your reservoir to assist your pump and give you better flow. Removing all the air from your plumping is very critical , because your pump will not work correctly. Air in your system can cause air lock preventing any flow at all or slow down the flow and make you pump work harder. You can actually use a garden hose with city water pressure to remove a majority air from your system , by hooking up the garden hose with some sort of hose adapter, most likely 5/8" to 1/2" . Making sure all hose clamps are tighten on system, do not try to cut corners this can get messy , now slowly turn on city water allowing air to escape from return line back to the reservoir. Be patient with opening up city water to full flow can take up to few minutes, when you removed the majority of the air, it is now time to open up all the way and let water run for a few minutes or more. This a great way to fill up reservoir , make sure not overfill or forget this will cause a nice flood. This a great time to look for leaks or weak connections because with this amount of pressure if your system is going to fail , it would most likely happen now. High volume low pressure is how it works , 15 pounds of water pressure is maximum for this system to run on a everyday circumstances , when bleeding your system it is auk to apply more pressure just be cautious. The purpose of high volume is it will remove more heat and it will keep the water cooled fixtures cleaner from algae growth and particle build up.
too much fuss.too many things to go wrong and if your water jacket leaks(which is bound to happen rubber gaskets and heat do not mix) you just fuct up a 1500.00 light.my light cost me 150 bucks fan,another 100 bucks and i keep my light (400 Watt HPS) 3" off my plants and they love it.someone would have to blow me while giving the sales pitch for one of these water lights before i would even consider looking at one.
keep tokin
 
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