Sarah Palin on the health care issue ...

[ViRedd]

She didn't offer any solutions. She was vague and simply provided ample evidence for what she clearly called a common sense idea - that government intervention fails. Why spend so much time evidencing a 'common-sense' claim? Because she has nothing else to offer. Common sense needs no evidence.

And the only solutions she proposed were so vague. Market driven solutions focused on the patient with an emphasis on productivity. Okay, thanks for that... How about you actually produce productive dialogue. Anyone can criticize and tear down another's proposal. Only the intelligent can contribute. Sarah Palin is NOT intelligent.

And I like how she fell prey to the whole death panel thing. Laughable. There's not even a bill being voted on and she's talking about the death panels and rationed care that those with NO health care would receive. She's pandering to fear and showing NO understanding of what is in the early stages of proposal. This early proposal only provides a public option for those with NO private insurance. And there are NO death panels. The fact that she used this imaginary notion as evidence displays her weakness in argument. If she were debating, she failed.

However, thanks for the article Vi. I've been so busy preparing for the collegiate debate circuit that I haven't been on here in a while. I sign on just after returning from a healthy debate practice and see this - kinda nice. Granted, Palin is not an intellectual and has NO idea how to debate, but I like discussing the issue anyway.

Well welcome back, JRH ... I thought you were on vacation or something. Missed your insightful writings ... even though we seldom agree.

Palin is correct that government intervention fails ... at least most of the time. Medicare is broke. Social Security is broke. Post Office is broke, Amtrak is broke. The deficit this year is four trillion dollars. The national debt is what ... 58 trillion?

Also, if the 45,000,000 uninsured figure is accurate, how does a country add 45,000,000 people to insurance rolls, and at the same time, not increase the number of doctors, nurses, hospitals, clinics ... and NOT ration health care at the same time?

Taking the example of other countries with government health care, the elderly are the first to have coverage rationed. Why would we be any different?

Sovietized countries place most of their importance on those who are still productive. That doesn't included the elderly.

Vi

 

[Wavels]

Hi jrh,

This is from Palin's op-ed:

Instead of poll-driven "solutions," let's talk about real health-care reform: market-oriented, patient-centered, and result-driven. As the Cato Institute's Michael Cannon and others have argued, such policies include giving all individuals the same tax benefits received by those who get coverage through their employers; providing Medicare recipients with vouchersthat allow them to purchase their own coverage; reforming tort lawsto potentially save billions each year in wasteful spending; and changing costly state regulations to allow people to buy insurance across state lines. Rather than another top-down government plan, let's give Americans control over their own health care.

I do not see anything "vague' or ambiguous in this paragraph...IMO these are excellent modifications to the present failing system and would be far less expensive to implement than Mr. Obama's truly nebulous proposals.

I anxiously await his forthcoming attempt to clarify his proposal tonight!

 

[jrh72582]

Hi jrh,

This is from Palin's op-ed:

Instead of poll-driven "solutions," let's talk about real health-care reform: market-oriented, patient-centered, and result-driven. As the Cato Institute's Michael Cannon and others have argued, such policies include giving all individuals the same tax benefits received by those who get coverage through their employers; providing Medicare recipients with vouchersthat allow them to purchase their own coverage; reforming tort lawsto potentially save billions each year in wasteful spending; and changing costly state regulations to allow people to buy insurance across state lines. Rather than another top-down government plan, let's give Americans control over their own health care.

I do not see anything "vague' or ambiguous in this paragraph...IMO these are excellent modifications to the present failing system and would be far less expensive to implement than Mr. Obama's truly nebulous proposals.

I anxiously await his forthcoming attempt to clarify his proposal tonight!

I said that I wanted to see Palin's proposals. She said, "I agree with these guys", which doesn't work in debate and discourse. My point is that Palin is merely an unintelligent mouthpiece for the neo-cons. She cannot stand on her own. She cannot debate. She cannot govern. She's an unintelligent quitter. I provided a rhetorical analysis of her article. Deal with it.

Health care is coming and I am one of the Americans that wants it. Every single person in the U.S. deserves health care - my personal opinion is that it is a right. What's quite disappointing is that MANY of you are all up in arms over something that hasn't even been created yet. There is NO health care bill so what the fuck are you arguing about? Let's see the bill that will be voted on and then have at it. But there's nothing. You're making shit up so that you can defeat it, which is the definition of a straw man, which is a logical fallacy. Do you really want to rely upon fallacy to win an argument? Can you not win by logic and reason alone?

 

[ViRedd]

^^^ Nice sidestep there JRH. Have you ever considered a position in sales?

 

[jrh72582]

^^^ Nice sidestep there JRH. Have you ever considered a position in sales?

Not a sidestep. I'll criticize Obama as well. I do all the time, when addressing his supporters. This is a right wing nut job site, so I play the leftist hat here. It gets people thinkin'

 

[Wavels]

Not a sidestep. I'll criticize Obama as well. I do all the time, when addressing his supporters. This is a right wing nut job site, so I play the leftist hat here. It gets people thinkin'

This is something I have noticed here at RIU ( having been absent here at RIU from March 2008 until 2 weeks ago):
Where have all of the left leaning posters gone??? The guys on the right were greatly outnumbered a couple of years ago.
I wonder what caused this shift????
Hmmm...

 

[Wavels]

Vi, did you scare medicineman away????
I miss old med!

 

[Green Cross]

This is something I have noticed here at RIU ( having been absent here at RIU from March 2008 until 2 weeks ago):
Where have all of the left leaning posters gone??? The guys on the right were greatly outnumbered a couple of years ago.
I wonder what caused this shift????
Hmmm...

disillusionment like in the 60's and 70's history is repeating itself. The Sheople are waking up, and now they see what's going on in washington. The Dems and the Reps are just 2 sides of the same piece of cloth.

 

[ViRedd]

Except for the large gaping logical hole, not bad. Your model would be accurate if the actual needs of the public were being addressed and provided for by the central authority per the demands of the people via direct or representative consensus. This is sadly not the case. For the record, Americans have never been broadly considered as "fiercely independent". In fact, Americans have historically been very prone to factionalization and behavioral indoctrination. Aside from a very, very, very few individuals, history tells us that past generations would be just as lost as this one.

Tell that to the Redcoats.

 

[ViRedd]

Vi, did you scare medicineman away????
I miss old med!

Nope, I didn't scare him away at all. I think after his adamant support of Obama, he was so embarrassed by Obama's performance that he just couldn't face us anymore. Too bad, I miss old Med-'O-Mao pounding his spoon on his high chair.

 

[PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1]

Big words = little penis,,,,Your lies are useless, hate Evil...and a rutlhess bloody takeover of power again,,,is what your after and the people have spoken,,,,get over your lose, work together for solutions, to the problems instead of blaming everyone else instead of yourself, for being so power Greedy. and power hungry,,,only to sleep in shit,,,,If you had better Ideas we would not be here Today,,,We'd be banned like Howard Stern.

 

[ViRedd]

Not a sidestep. I'll criticize Obama as well. I do all the time, when addressing his supporters. This is a right wing nut job site, so I play the leftist hat here. It gets people thinkin'

Interesting, jrh. What is "right wing? There are hardly any Republicans posting here. I mean there are a few, but hardly the Darth Vader, NeoCon types.

In your opinion, are folks who desire, and speak out for, a limited federal government, one that is bound by the framing constitution, and in addition, for lower taxes, free minds, free markets and individual liberty "right wing nut jobs?"

 

[Stoney McFried]

Sarah Palin is a right wing nut job. Just sayin'.

Interesting, jrh. What is "right wing? There are hardly any Republicans posting here. I mean there are a few, but hardly the Darth Vader, NeoCon types.

In your opinion, are folks who desire, and speak out for, a limited federal government, one that is bound by the framing constitution, and in addition, for lower taxes, free minds, free markets and individual liberty "right wing nut jobs?"

 

[ViRedd]

Big words = little penis,,,,Your lies are useless, hate Evil...and a rutlhess bloody takeover of power again,,,is what your after and the people have spoken,,,,get over your lose, work together for solutions, to the problems instead of blaming everyone else instead of yourself, for being so power Greedy. and power hungry,,,only to sleep in shit,,,,If you had better Ideas we would not be here Today,,,We'd be banned like Howard Stern.

Translation: "I have run out of ideas and cannot counter opposing arguements. Therefore, I'd rather just resort to personal attacks and nonsensical statements."

 

[TokinPodPilot]

Nope, I didn't scare him away at all. I think after his adamant support of Obama, he was so embarrassed by Obama's performance that he just couldn't face us anymore. Too bad, I miss old Med-'O-Mao pounding his spoon on his high chair.

You are like Old Faithful here... I just wait a little while and blind rhetoric comes spewing out. I'm sort of glad this forum never died... it's a nice way to pass the day watching the libbies and conservatives piss in each other's coffee and then decry the other for the manner in which they pissed in your coffee.

Rather glad, metaphorically and literally, I don't drink coffee.

 

[ViRedd]

Sarah Palin is a right wing nut job. Just sayin'.

That's right, Stoney, you're "just sayin'." Now please explain what makes Palin a right wing nut job ... and please leave out the BS stuff like banning books, speaking in tounges, paying hundred of thousands for clothes, etc., all of which were nothing but lies told by the DNC.

Does her belief in the sanctity of life make her a right wing nut job in your opinion? Just askin' ...

 

[Stoney McFried]

Nope.Her belief that everyone should believe the way she does.Because she'd like to make it so that nobody can get an abortion.And the fact that she thinks god talks to her, and that the iraq war was sanctioned by her god.But you have the hots for her.I get it.

That's right, Stoney, you're "just sayin'." Now please explain what makes Palin a right wing nut job ... and please leave out the BS stuff like banning books, speaking in tounges, paying hundred of thousands for clothes, etc., all of which were nothing but lies told by the DNC.

Does her belief in the sanctity of life make her a right wing nut job in your opinion? Just askin' ...

 

[ViRedd]

Nope.Her belief that everyone should believe the way she does.Because she'd like to make it so that nobody can get an abortion.And the fact that she thinks god talks to her, and that the iraq war was sanctioned by her god.But you have the hots for her.I get it.

I'd tell you to fuck off, but I like you too much. jk.

1. I think Palin believes in state's rights. Abortion should be left up to the individual states. The way the law is now, for those who believe that abortion is murder, or infanticide, and that includes millions of Americans, they are left with no choice, dictated to by those who pretend to be pro-choice.

2. God speaks to us all, at least those who carefully listen. As its been said before, if you don't hear an answer to your prayers, perhaps the answer is no.

3. Did Palin say that the Iraq war was sanctioned by God? If so, I missed that one.

4. She IS hot. I'm straight. No brainer.

 

[Stoney McFried]

1.You can choose not to have an abortion.What YOU do with YOUR body is up to YOU.
2.No, not really.Some believe there is no god.And if there was,I don't believe anyone can say what this god's will is.Your god isn't everyone's god.
3.It was a task from god, said Palin.http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/09/02/by_juliet_eilperin_when_alaska.html
4.Perv.

I'd tell you to fuck off, but I like you too much. jk.

1. I think Palin believes in state's rights. Abortion should be left up to the individual states. The way the law is now, for those who believe that abortion is murder, or infanticide, and that includes millions of Americans, they are left with no choice, dictated to by those who pretend to be pro-choice.

2. God speaks to us all, at least those who carefully listen. As its been said before, if you don't hear an answer to your prayers, perhaps the answer is no.

3. Did Palin say that the Iraq war was sanctioned by God? If so, I missed that one.

4. She IS hot. I'm straight. No brainer.

 

[fdd2blk]

And by the way, contrary to FlyLikeAnEagle's raunchy assertion that Palin is "whoring herself out on Ebay," Palin is raffling off a dinner with herself and her husband, with all proceeds going to charity. Isn't this voluntary approach to charity much better than some government thug pointing a gun to your head in order to extract donations from you in the form of taxes to be applied to HIS/HER favorite charity?

there is NO gunner, you are making that up. she IS whoring herself out though.