What Is Anarchy??

[medicineman]

I've worked fast food, it's not that hard.

The hardest job I've ever had was working at the Sprint Call Center. Being forced to try to sell products that you don't believe in, and don't actually believe any one needs is difficult.

Food, food is easy.

Though rushes were stressful, and fun at the same time.

I don't think there's anything like the sense of relief you get after managing to get a moment to relax after a rush at a fastfood joint.

Believe it or not, I entered the work force before the first McDonalds was opened, never got the chance. I did Buss tables on the strip in the late 50s early 60s, even had a room service waiters job at the Tropicana untill the mob wanted me to pimp their whores. I quit and went and did my service to my country, the draft you know. My buddy that took my job did quite well as a mafia pimp. When I got out of the service, he had a new house on the golf course, a new caddie for his wife a corvette for him and a bitchin boat, opportunity missed I guess. I was afraid of the payback effect. You don't get something for nothing from the mob. I lost touch with robert, don't know what happened to him

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Believe it or not, I entered the work force before the first McDonalds was opened, never got the chance. I did Buss tables on the strip in the late 50s early 60s, even had a room service waiters job at the Tropicana untill the mob wanted me to pimp their whores. I quit and went and did my service to my country, the draft you know. My buddy that took my job did quite well as a mafia pimp. When I got out of the service, he had a new house on the golf course, a new caddie for his wife a corvette for him and a bitchin boat, opportunity missed I guess. I was afraid of the payback effect. You don't get something for nothing from the mob. I lost touch with robert, don't know what happened to him

I'd probably be in the service right now operating a nuclear reactor or contributing to the operation of one, but eye problems kept me out.

As far as the Tropicana, I have a cousin that works on the strip. I'm not sure to the truth of the family stories, but words is that his name can get some pretty good service. My parents, nor myself have ever tried to take advantage of our connection, so I don't know if its true or not, but my great aunts were saying that at one time he had a problem with people from their city going there and trying to pretend to be connected to him.

:: shrugs ::

Just family stories, I don't know the truth of them, or if they are true any longer.

 

[ilkhan]

Ok, let me get this straight.
You want Direct Democracy
and No Private Property.

So lets theorize for a moment.
Lets say I work to restore a P51, I spend thousands of hours working on it.
But I have no private property rights to it.
So you and some friends waltz on down to the airport and
deside your going to take her for a few laps around the airport.
I say "no your not" we have a vote. You and your buddies win.
And you take the plane.

Do you see how this might cause a problem?
Do you see how I might have to shoot you?

Your theory of freedom is very diffrent from mine.
I want private property rights.
I want those rights protected.
That is why we have Government to protect our rights.
Who would protect the rights of the individual in your world?
the Majority? Don't make me lauph.

 

[Musical Suicide]

I don't watch fox news, Buddy. Anarchists are just a noisy mob, give us freedom, etc. etc. Next thing you know, the biggest baddest bully in the "Mob" starts his power move and the crap starts all over again. Study history....Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"- the WHO.

You Mean Like ameriKKKa?? Policing the world? Anarchism has never had a chance to be able to work. I do know my history, and never has any anarchist taken over a country... or placed a government within it, or bombed them... so I dont know what your idea of anarchism is, but I assure you its not anarchy-choas and violence. SO before you start saying things you dont know, read up on the spanish revolution, emma goldman, noam chomsky, the paris commune, ect. ect.
(Being that you seem to like song quotes, maybe you wont missuse this one as well... haha )

Against Me!


"Baby, I'm An Anarchist!"



Through the best of times,
Through the worst of times,
Through Nixon and through Bush,
Do you remember '36?
We went our seperate ways.
You fought for Stalin.
I fought for freedom.
You believe in authority.
I believe in myself.
I'm a molotov cocktail.
You're Dom Perignon.
Baby, what's that confused look in your eyes?
What I'm trying to say is that
I burn down buildings
While you sit on a shelf inside of them.
You call the cops
On the looters and piethrowers.
They call it class war,
I call it co-conspirators.

'Cause baby, I'm an anarchist,
You're a spineless liberal.
We marched together for the eight-hour day
And held hands in the streets of Seattle,
But when it came time to throw bricks
Through that Starbucks window,
You left me all alone.

 

[KaliKitsune]

Anarchism is responsible self-governance. Yes, anarchism involves lawlessness in a manner, it does not necessarily mean lawlessness. It does involve removing corporations and such, for reasons that they interfere with reasonable self-governance. They WANT you to be reliant upon them, it's how they make their money. If you rely upon yourself and govern yourself, they cannot profit from you directly by you giving them money. To this end, a government becomes their tool and they force you into giving them money through laws and taxes (DMCA, Disc tax, etc.)

Anarchism can't be very well defined but the best definition is self governance. Pierre-Joseph Proudhon is regarded as the first self-described anarchist. Self-governing communism might be a more fitting description for what he proposed.

 

[Musical Suicide]

I've worked fast food, it's not that hard.

The hardest job I've ever had was working at the Sprint Call Center. Being forced to try to sell products that you don't believe in, and don't actually believe any one needs is difficult.

Food, food is easy.

wow, your a winner buddy. Selling products on the phone is harder than working on your feet all day? haha And selling products you dont believe in was exactly my argument too. Cause not all people who work in fast food, even eat meat, or unhealthy shit you get there.

And also, being you think I'm 8, from the city, never worked hard, limited experience in the world, and an imbecile.... with all this great guessing ability, where do you find time for your family?? hmmm... let me guess, no one has really liked you overzelous, rude fucking ass much in your pathetic life. What a fucking surprise. I didnt post this thread for republican assholes like you to make it into a fucking argument. I was hoping to find some like minded folks, but of course. so asshole has to come along and pick it apart, cause he has the words and obviously nothing but time on his hands. Now we could arguee about this back and forth, for quite sometime. But everyone belives in what they feel is best. I personally find a united, diverse, equal mass to be better than a corrupt, violent power, thats why I belive in Anarchism. Love, Equality, Peace, solidarity... (A)

 

[Musical Suicide]

Anarchism can't be very well defined but the best definition is self governance. Pierre-Joseph Proudhon is regarded as the first self-described anarchist. Self-governing communism might be a more fitting description for what he proposed.

yes... its hard to explain to people. Everyone's just so obedient these days, so afraid to think for themselves, and wonder "hmmmm is my life really better in their hands?" We're taught our whole lives to be good little sheep, go to school, learn what they teach you, always play by the rules, buy the nice things, work hard, make mommy and daddy proud by what your worth in dollars, get married, buy a house, a new car, have some more little sheep, and start all over again, all while the top 1% have over 90% of the wealth. I dont know, but I just can't handle that and something needs to change. Redistribution of everything.

 

[Musical Suicide]

Ok, let me get this straight.
You want Direct Democracy
and No Private Property.

So lets theorize for a moment.
Lets say I work to restore a P51, I spend thousands of hours working on it.
But I have no private property rights to it.
So you and some friends waltz on down to the airport and
deside your going to take her for a few laps around the airport.
I say "no your not" we have a vote. You and your buddies win.
And you take the plane.

Do you see how this might cause a problem?
Do you see how I might have to shoot you?

Your theory of freedom is very diffrent from mine.
I want private property rights.
I want those rights protected.
That is why we have Government to protect our rights.
Who would protect the rights of the individual in your world?
the Majority? Don't make me lauph.

So you think the government wont do the exact same thing?? haha now i'm laughing....the only thing the government is protecting is their illegal activities.

And as a collective territory, one wouldn't ask you for a "P51" without offering something in return. And if you disagreed, well they'd offer you something to take them for a spin in this plane you spent your time restoring. If people were equal, and all had the same privileges as each other, of course some people would have more than others, if they worked at it. But greed would be abolished, so there would be no reason why you wouldn't take them for a spin, or let them use your plane if there were qualified. Because, one of them would probably be your doctor, your kids teacher, your plumber.. something in equal return to a spin in your plane. I know this is hard for most to conceive, being born and raised in a dog eat dog world, with nothing but harshness around. But I full faith in believing once people were without a complete and utterly violent and oppressive government, free to take and kill whoever and whatever they feel, them you'd see quite the decrease in all crimes.

 

[KaliKitsune]

Well, the problem with any form of self-governance, or even government, especially including that of a communistic nature, is the key element of human greed. When you add human greed to any plan, the whole equation gets fucked up, and the end result is fucked up as well.

As long as human greed exists, there cannot be any reliable form of government, even self-governance.

 

[Musical Suicide]

very true. That's why i feel we need to educate ourselves how to refrain from this natural instinct, much how a vegetarian refrains from eating meat. We have the power in us to change that. Everything must evolve... maybe one day we will evolve into a peaceful species, like some of us are. But one things for sure, we'll always have really good people, and really bad people, hopefully the majority moves to the good people soon.

 

[Musical Suicide]

so mister anarchist hows it gonna work when I need to go to a hospital? Will my car have gas? will the roads be usable? Will the doctor have completed med school? will the hospital have power?

so theirs no anarchist doctors or power plant operators? haha and as for your gas, hmmmmm maybe you should ditch the polluting piece of shit and walk??? or public transportation?? hmmm... or fucking walk! haha its always amazes me how intimidated some people are of a little exercise. Also, although there was sarcassum inteded on the mister anarchist, I really was refreshed by the mannors.. good day to you sir.

 

[budsmoker87]

yes... its hard to explain to people. Everyone's just so obedient these days, so afraid to think for themselves, and wonder "hmmmm is my life really better in their hands?" We're taught our whole lives to be good little sheep, go to school, learn what they teach you, always play by the rules, buy the nice things, work hard, make mommy and daddy proud by what your worth in dollars, get married, buy a house, a new car, have some more little sheep, and start all over again, all while the top 1% have over 90% of the wealth. I dont know, but I just can't handle that and something needs to change. Redistribution of everything.

well i agree with you here- anarchy sounds awesome- i'm just questioning the feasability of this system.

as far as the "beauty" standard, I didn't even define beauty but it most-likely elicited some sort of image in your head. After all, we learn what's considered beautiful from other people, right? times change, fashion changes, and ideals of beauty change, but the fact we're influenced never does. So you misread me, and I agree with you here- beauty IS undefined, but it's learned. And if it's learned, you can betchur ass, in general of course, that we'll compete for beauty, however it may be defined in large-scale, to many people, @ a given point in time. it's the theory of zeitgeist and i gotta give it credit.


hmmm I do suppose if somebody does any wrong-doing (suppose a man rapes your wife or steals your belongings)...then under anarchy, murder or torture doesn't constitute punishment unless, of course, retaliation occurs. that itself should be enough to keep people in-line. so why the need for a middle-man (gov't) to inflict punishment on people? he's profiting from it anyway. anarchy would work just as well as any other form of gov't when it comes to grounding social and civil order.

However, I do believe that the human condition doesn't permit anarchy as equality at all. It doesn't matter that we're human and able to understand our need for dominance. It will exist anyway. it doesnt make us "bad people" it makes us human, just another species.

so unless you can influence (control) people to all adhere to the same belief (that money/laziness/exploitation of others for personal gain) does no good for them nor anybody else, then anarchy wouldn't be possible. to an extent, people do chose to be influenced, but only by the choices of influence provided.

we all have influences- unconscious or conscious ideologies which influence our behavior. that is why i feel anarchy, wonderful an idea as it is, couldn't exist

do u know what i mean...does it make sense the way i explained?

 

[budsmoker87]

and i will be blunt enough to say that i think women, by and large, are attracted to power. power=security for them. women love powerful men.

men REALIZE this, and want women. Men will do what it takes, even at the expense of others, to secure power to attract women. Sure, power comes in all different shapes/forms/ideas. but power, no matter how it's looked at, has one thing in common: the ability to influence.

we ALL enjoy power, we ALL like to influence...isnt that the very REASON we debate like we do now, on this forum? isnt it why we play sports to display power and dominance? don't entertainers and performers enjoy the feeling of empowerment and power they cast on their audience? Well yea but... just because we've found creative ways to satisfy our inherent need for power doesn't mean we have the ability to exempt ourselves from it.

i think we can *think* we understand the innate complexities of what drives our competitive spirit, but we'll never fully understand it OR be able to consciously adjust to allow for an idea like anarchy.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

very true. That's why i feel we need to educate ourselves how to refrain from this natural instinct, much how a vegetarian refrains from eating meat. We have the power in us to change that. Everything must evolve... maybe one day we will evolve into a peaceful species, like some of us are. But one things for sure, we'll always have really good people, and really bad people, hopefully the majority moves to the good people soon.

One day we'll evolve into a peaceful species

That's the day when Pigs (the animal) will fly...

And vegetarianism has been proven to be more likely to result in horrible health problems than being omnivorous.

Man was designed with canines and molars for tearing meat, because believe it or not, we require meat to survive.

It is nigh on impossible to get all the proteins that we require from local sources, and that is why we have to eat meat. It is more difficult for us to extract some proteins from plant life than from animal life where it's been preprocessed for us. In some cases the previous is impossible with certain required proteins.

Vegetarianism is worse than any mystical mumbo-jumbo believing religion in that it is a specific rejection of what science has taught us.

Any one that is a Vegetarian is also a worse polluter than any non vegetarian because unlike a non-vegetarian not all of their diet can be grown locally.

 

[medicineman]

One day we'll evolve into a peaceful species

That's the day when Pigs (the animal) will fly...

And vegetarianism has been proven to be more likely to result in horrible health problems than being omnivorous.

Man was designed with canines and molars for tearing meat, because believe it or not, we require meat to survive.

It is nigh on impossible to get all the proteins that we require from local sources, and that is why we have to eat meat. It is more difficult for us to extract some proteins from plant life than from animal life where it's been preprocessed for us. In some cases the previous is impossible with certain required proteins.

Vegetarianism is worse than any mystical mumbo-jumbo believing religion in that it is a specific rejection of what science has taught us.

Any one that is a Vegetarian is also a worse polluter than any non vegetarian because unlike a non-vegetarian not all of their diet can be grown locally.

Your anti-vegetarian rant is one of the most ludicrous yet. It is a proven fact that man can live an extremely healthy life on vegetables and fruit alone. Please tell me how your meat is grown locally? Do you have a cow in your bedroom, do you hang it from the rafters and butcher it to make your steaks and hamburgers? BTW do you grow wheat and mill it to make your bread, Meat eaters have to have their products processed and shipped in just like vegetarians, even more so. Most beef comes from the chicago area, maybe if you live in Chicago, your steaks travel short distances. BTW, I am an omniverous person, I am trending towards more vegetarian as I age, meat does not hold the same calling it once did.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Your anti-vegetarian rant is one of the most ludicrous yet. It is a proven fact that man can live an extremely healthy life on vegetables and fruit alone. Please tell me how your meat is grown locally? Do you have a cow in your bedroom, do you hang it from the rafters and butcher it to make your steaks and hamburgers? BTW do you grow wheat and mill it to make your bread, Meat eaters have to have their products processed and shipped in just like vegetarians, even more so. Most beef comes from the chicago area, maybe if you live in Chicago, your steaks travel short distances. BTW, I am an omniverous person, I am trending towards more vegetarian as I age, meat does not hold the same calling it once did.

Let's see, as I live in the Midwest, yes, the beef I eat is grown locally, or at least more locally than transporting some fruit from Hawaii, South America or wherever else because it's not in season in the Northern Hemisphere.

 

[medicineman]

Let's see, as I live in the Midwest, yes, the beef I eat is grown locally, or at least more locally than transporting some fruit from Hawaii, South America or wherever else because it's not in season in the Northern Hemisphere.

So you don't eat fruit then? Your arguement is very weak and frankly, false.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

So you don't eat fruit then? Your arguement is very weak and frankly, false.

Of course I eat fruit, and no, my argument is truthful

Explain to me how some one in the Midwest or even the South east, exempting perhaps Florida and Southern Georgia at random during warm winters, can possibly eat citrus in the middle of winter.

Hell, even in Florida such action is becoming more difficult because the citrus crops have been getting damaged by frost.

And I really don't think California produces enough Citrus for the entire nation in the middle of winter, or even during summer allowing for wastage, spoilage and other loss.

Whereas some one that is eating meat does not have to worry about the weather or weather conditions because wherever they are will likely have perennials that can grow year round in the climate they are in.

(Of course industrial farming hasn't made good use of perennials.)

 

[KaliKitsune]

I figured the veganism thing was going to come up sooner or later.

Pure carnivores feed only on meat. Their teeth are designed for killing and slicing flesh, not for grazing and grinding up plants, and their digestive system is designed for processing flesh - it cannot break down the cellulose found in plant material. This is why cats vomit when they eat grass, which they do deliberately to help them bring up fur they have swallowed whilst grooming.

Cellulose is difficult to digest, and requires a large stomach in which to 'stew' the food, symbiotic bacteria to help break it down, and a long gut to give the nutrition time to be absorbed. Some animals effectively eat their food twice in order to gain the best nutrition from this low-quality food - some, like cattle, regurgitate what they have eaten and chew it a second time ('chewing the cud'), before it goes to another stomach chamber for further processing. Rabbits eat their droppings, allowing the food to pass through the digestive system twice.

Carnivores do not have these problems, as meat is a high-quality food. They have short digestive systems, since meat is easier to digest and contains more nutrients than plant matter, and lack the symbiotic bacteria required to break down cellulose. In other words, even if you could get a lion to eat plant matter, it would not be able to digest it, and would eventually die of starvation or malnutrition.

In humans, we have a combination of traits from both digestive systems. We have long intestinal tract for processing plant food, a smaller stomach with more powerful acids than most other creatures for processing meats and plant matter. We are designed for ripping apart flesh and plant matter, and processing both, for obvious reasons. To ignore nature is to smack her in the face. Veganism is a smack in the face to nature's design. Nature made you this way for a reason. You need other meats to survive. Synthesized sources from plants (just like minerals and vitamins found in supplement pills) are not as effective or as healthy for you as eating it directly from a source that contains it. In fact, soy milk is shown to inhibit protein processing. Oops, so much for keeping you healthy.

Remember the vegan parents that gave their baby a vegan diet and killed it? If vegan diets are not complete for growing babies, what makes you think it's good for a full-grown human? Babies need the EXACT same things as adults to grow and survive. If it won't support a baby, what would make one think it's going to support a fully-grown human in a proper fashion?

It won't. I have a vegan friend with MS. Our little circle of friends, plus our circle of doctors have tried to get her to eat meat instead of going to soy for protein and using vitamin supplements. She refuses and deteriorates faster than any MS patient that eats a regular diet with meat and eggs and fish. The doctors have told her it is specifically her diet causing this. It breaks my heart every day to look at her, who used to be a beautiful busty woman, and see what looks like a man, now.

That "B12 myth" isn't a myth at all. Vitamin B12, whether in supplements, fortified foods, or animal products, comes from micro-organisms. A vegan diet would strictly forbid this as it is an animal product by definition. As stated before, supplements are not as effective as finding the natural source and consuming it.

I'm a member of a community full of vegans and other free-minded hippy people, known as Radical Faeries. I've seen thousands of vegans - most with pretty bad health problems that obviously stem from a poor and improperly-balanced diet.

 

[Musical Suicide]

I figured the veganism thing was going to come up sooner or later.



Carnivores do not have these problems, as meat is a high-quality food. They have short digestive systems, since meat is easier to digest and contains more nutrients than plant matter,

Ummm... Meat is not faster to digest, or easier.

please read this artical about how your wrong....


http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html




And I'm sorry, but more people die from Heart Disease caused by red meat each year, than all vegans ever have from there diet. I have been vegan for 4 years now, never taking supplements. And being lactose intolerant, soy milk was a great alternative. My Nutritionist says, there has been lots and lots of study's on which is better, and time and time again not eating meat is better for you all around. I have never gotten sick, I'm 185 lbs, 6'0, I work out everyday, I'm stronger than I have ever been, faster, and feel so much better. I lost 55 lbs when I turned, My breathing gotten better, and nothing I eat makes me sick. SO You saying all humans are supposed to eat meat is just absurd. We have 2 carniverious teeth on top and 2 on bottom, (Like horses and gorillas do, they both are omnivores) much less then we used to as earlier species. Here's wh. In the ice age, there was very little plant life, thus we were forced to hunt. Now that we live in a habital enviroment, and know that it is very easy, and more healthy for us not to eat meat, pumped full of hormones and other chemicals, well, the ones that eat meat just do it for taste. As for your baby stary, well thats sad, but I'm sure there was other factors into it, and maybe you should look up "storys" you hear, you'd be surprised what twists were put on it before it got to you. I have lots of friends who raise their kids vegan and vegetarian, you just got to be smarter than the food your eating. Now I understand, most were brought up on meat, and like the nasty taste of it, thats your choice. But For you to say these outlandish lies, with no scientific proof, well, its just more propaghanda thats spred, that influences people not to find out the real truth for them selves, but listen to ignorant internet ranters.

for everyone who doesnt know for themselves, please do some research before you spred lies about something, just cause you dont like it or choose it. Or just do some research to educate your selves... it wont hurt I sware. hahaha

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/painter/2008-01-27-your-health_N.htm


www.veganthis.org


http://www.goveg.com/healthConcerns.asp