Thriving to Struggling Overnight — Need Eyes on My Setup

[GrindMind]

Not exactly sure what’s going on—things were looking great with the plants, and then suddenly… they weren’t. Nothing obvious changed, but here’s a little context. I’m growing Skunk #1 from seed in a 1-gallon fabric nursery pot using a 70/30 coco-perlite mix, feeding with Jack’s 321. Everything was going smooth until I switched from top-feeding to the Tray2Grow AutoPot system. At first, no issues, but then I noticed the plants started looking a bit off—first about an hour before lights out, then it became two, and eventually they just never perked up at all.

Thinking they might’ve been rootbound, I transplanted into 3-gallon square fabric pots about 3–4 days ago, but they still look the same. The pots always feel heavy, so I know they’re getting water—maybe too much? It’s confusing because I figured the AutoPot system and fabric pots would help avoid overwatering. If anyone has any insights, I’d really appreciate it. I’m open to ideas, happy to answer questions, and willing to try different things to figure this out.

 

[ec121]

Are you using only coco and perlite? List the brand bag as some are listed as coco but are not really just coco/perlite. But if it is, the optimal way to grow is to feed at least once a day. Overwatering is not a concern because coco/perlite provides the roots enough oxygen even at full saturation.

When you grow in 1g coco/perlite, you want the plants to get root bound when you top feed dtw (if you're not planning on potting up at any point in the grow). I grow in 1g coco and feed multiple times per day all the way to harvest. With a bound plant, it just basically becomes hydroponic and the coco just functions to keep the plant upright.

That said, you can use 3g or 5g pots. You won't need to fertigate as often if you don't want to, but should still hit it at least once a day at lights on.

With that said, what was the EC and pH of the jacks you were feeding? How often were you feeding? Were you giving food and then plain water (if you were, do not do this - only give water with nutrients). Were you letting the plant dryback? Please answer these questions as they're important to know.

What you should do right now is fix up a nutrient solution of about 1.0 EC at about 5.8 pH. Top feed through the plant and collect the first bit of runoff in a clean container and measure the EC of that. That will give you an idea of what is going on with the rootzone as bottom feeding can lead to EC spikes and if you were doing drybacks when doing top feeding will also lead to EC spikes. Give the EC runoff number here.

After you collect your runoff EC for testing, keep feeding that 1.0 EC through the top until your runoff comes out 1.0 (or thereabouts). Now it's been basically reset.

 

[medidedicated]

Person above me pretty much nailed it. I do dtw coco and so were you but you switched to a whole new method. One I wouldnt recommend because of what was already said. At that point Id just look into flood and drain if you really want to bottom feed.

Interesting, I never quite realized this but did see people do it from time to time. Never thought about it like I just did.

 

[Hollatchaboy]

There's been guys on here that feed to no runoff. Seems to work for them, but i don't really buy it. Whatever the plant doesn't take up, will accumulate in the medium.You may be able to feed light, but i feel the accumulation still occurs. I'll admit I've never tried though. Id be too worried.

 

[GrindMind]

Are you using only coco and perlite? List the brand bag as some are listed as coco but are not really just coco/perlite. But if it is, the optimal way to grow is to feed at least once a day. Overwatering is not a concern because coco/perlite provides the roots enough oxygen even at full saturation.

When you grow in 1g coco/perlite, you want the plants to get root bound when you top feed dtw (if you're not planning on potting up at any point in the grow). I grow in 1g coco and feed multiple times per day all the way to harvest. With a bound plant, it just basically becomes hydroponic and the coco just functions to keep the plant upright.

That said, you can use 3g or 5g pots. You won't need to fertigate as often if you don't want to, but should still hit it at least once a day at lights on.

With that said, what was the EC and pH of the jacks you were feeding? How often were you feeding? Were you giving food and then plain water (if you were, do not do this - only give water with nutrients). Were you letting the plant dryback? Please answer these questions as they're important to know.

What you should do right now is fix up a nutrient solution of about 1.0 EC at about 5.8 pH. Top feed through the plant and collect the first bit of runoff in a clean container and measure the EC of that. That will give you an idea of what is going on with the rootzone as bottom feeding can lead to EC spikes and if you were doing drybacks when doing top feeding will also lead to EC spikes. Give the EC runoff number here.

After you collect your runoff EC for testing, keep feeding that 1.0 EC through the top until your runoff comes out 1.0 (or thereabouts). Now it's been basically reset.

This is the medium I’ve been using, and since my setup runs on AutoPots, I don’t control how often they’re fed—they’re consistently supplied and take in what they need. I had been feeding at an EC of around 1.2, but I’m starting to think that may have been too high. I recently picked up a BlueLab Pulse, and it read an EC of 2.0 near the bottom of the fabric pot. I’ve since diluted the reservoir a bit, but I’m considering doing a full flush just to be safe.

 

[GrindMind]

Person above me pretty much nailed it. I do dtw coco and so were you but you switched to a whole new method. One I wouldnt recommend because of what was already said. At that point Id just look into flood and drain if you really want to bottom feed.

Interesting, I never quite realized this but did see people do it from time to time. Never thought about it like I just did.

Autopots recommends starting as top feed until roots get established. Then switch over to the autopot method.

 

[Gemtree]

Let them dry out more and turn your light down

 

[medidedicated]

Autopots recommends starting as top feed until roots get established. Then switch over to the autopot method.

Yea thats my way of saying idk what Im talking about so ignore me lol. People do what youre doing its just interesting how quick it turns to a new method. Simply autopot coco is what Id call it. Id see youtubers do it. They would add myco but thats just not needed in it lol. Also EWC or some shit like that.

 

[smokonojoko]

Might sound dumb after all the others comments but I've had plants do that from room getting to hot.

 

[GrindMind]

Might sound dumb after all the others comments but I've had plants do that from room getting to hot.

Room hasn't been above 82F

 

[coreywebster]

Have you checked all your autopots valves are seated right and all the silicone plugs are seated so they're square on so that they are working right?

Did you put two inch of hydroton in the bottom?
I'm not sure they still recommend that, but they certainly used to.

Do you have anything circulating the res so it remains well oxygenated?
That seems like a good idea to me.
Though I know its not part of the system.

@Star Dog , any other suggestions, I know you've been running autopots for a while.

 

[Farmer's Hat]

I watched a video to get a general understanding of its flood/drain system. Its supposed to give the plant time to breathe for at least an hour before it floods the tray again. From my experience, your plant looks over watered and a little hungry for more N. Check to make sure that your system is functioning properly. I would also double check the ph of the reservoir, and make sure your ph pen is properly calibrated.

 

[GrindMind]

Have you checked all your autopots valves are seated right and all the silicone plugs are seated so they're square on so that they are working right?

Did you put two inch of hydroton in the bottom?
I'm not sure they still recommend that, but they certainly used to.

Do you have anything circulating the res so it remains well oxygenated?
That seems like a good idea to me.
Though I know its not part of the system.

@Star Dog , any other suggestions, I know you've been running autopots for a while.

I did check all of that when I first set up the system, but I’ll go over everything again today once the lights come back on, just to make sure it’s all working properly.

I didn’t add the two inches of hydroton at the bottom this time, but I actually still have some left over from when I used to grow hydroponically. I’ll definitely keep that suggestion in mind for my next run.

As for recirculating the reservoir, I’ve held off because the AutoPot instructions recommend against it, mentioning it can affect pH stability. I used to run airstones before, but I stopped after reading that. Still, I’m considering going back to aerating or circulating the reservoir again moving forward.

 

[GrindMind]

I watched a video to get a general understanding of its flood/drain system. Its supposed to give the plant time to breathe for at least an hour before it floods the tray again. From my experience, your plant looks over watered and a little hungry for more N. Check to make sure that your system is functioning properly. I would also double check the ph of the reservoir, and make sure your ph pen is properly calibrated.

I check the PH of the reservoir every other day. I also check my pens calibration on a weekly basis and it's always on point. I'm always on top of the PH and the reservoir EC, one thing I never took into consideration is the salt build up. So, now I am starting to address that.

 

[GrindMind]

Just a quick update — I ended up taking about half the plants out of the veg tent to give them a proper flush. When I checked the EC at the root zone, it was way too high, so I flushed with pH’d RO water until the Bluelab Pulse showed it down around .5 EC. That part alone took several hours. Afterward, I wrung out the capillary mat and was pretty shocked to see the EC reading at 4.4 — way higher than I expected. I flushed that too, and it took five rounds of soaking and wringing to finally bring it down to 0.3 EC. Right now, I have it soaking in RO water pH’d to 5.8 with some Hydroguard, and I’m planning to leave it for about 8 hours before reconnecting it to the AutoPot system. At this point, I’m starting to think the high EC may have caused a lockout, even though the pH has been consistently on point the entire time.

Below are some of the symptoms I've been experiencing, aside from the wilting.

 

[ec121]

Just a quick update — I ended up taking about half the plants out of the veg tent to give them a proper flush. When I checked the EC at the root zone, it was way too high, so I flushed with pH’d RO water until the Bluelab Pulse showed it down around .5 EC. That part alone took several hours. Afterward, I wrung out the capillary mat and was pretty shocked to see the EC reading at 4.4 — way higher than I expected.

Which method did you use to check the EC at the rootzone and what was the EC reading?

Just for future reference, you don't want to flush with 0EC water. Plants take in water and nutrients separately via different mechanisms through the roots. When the EC is high, the plant is manufacturing sugars to process the high salinity water in the rootzone. Then when you hit it with 0EC water, it has to convert those sugars to starches so that the roots do not take in too much water.

The best course of action is to flush with the EC you want the plant to currently be at. It's going to take a lot longer, but it stresses the plant out less and is easier to saturate the rootzone with the proper EC. Alternatively, if the EC is really high, you could flush with 1/2 the EC. So if you want the EC to be 1.2 and the rootzone EC is 3.5, then you can flush with 0.6 until the runoff is reading 1.2 to save some time.

As is, you shouldn't have flushed down to 0.5. Not really a huge deal if you give it a full EC feeding soon.

So I thought you were running Autopots for a few days and not as long as you have been. I am interested in hearing from people who use coco and synthetics with Autopots and curious if they have to do a few mid-grow flushes. It seems from reading the boards that a lot of people get spiked EC's from Autopot's ability to not "flush as you feed" as DTW is able to do.

I'm not knocking Autopots, but it just seems it needs to be feed through the top a few times during the grow. If I'm wrong about that, I certainly want to hear experiences from others to correct my suppositions.

 

[GrindMind]

Which method did you use to check the EC at the rootzone and what was the EC reading?

Just for future reference, you don't want to flush with 0EC water. Plants take in water and nutrients separately via different mechanisms through the roots. When the EC is high, the plant is manufacturing sugars to process the high salinity water in the rootzone. Then when you hit it with 0EC water, it has to convert those sugars to starches so that the roots do not take in too much water.

The best course of action is to flush with the EC you want the plant to currently be at. It's going to take a lot longer, but it stresses the plant out less and is easier to saturate the rootzone with the proper EC. Alternatively, if the EC is really high, you could flush with 1/2 the EC. So if you want the EC to be 1.2 and the rootzone EC is 3.5, then you can flush with 0.6 until the runoff is reading 1.2 to save some time.

As is, you shouldn't have flushed down to 0.5. Not really a huge deal if you give it a full EC feeding soon.

So I thought you were running Autopots for a few days and not as long as you have been. I am interested in hearing from people who use coco and synthetics with Autopots and curious if they have to do a few mid-grow flushes. It seems from reading the boards that a lot of people get spiked EC's from Autopot's ability to not "flush as you feed" as DTW is able to do.

I'm not knocking Autopots, but it just seems it needs to be feed through the top a few times during the grow. If I'm wrong about that, I certainly want to hear experiences from others to correct my suppositions.

I made the switch to Autopots about three weeks ago. The first two weeks went really well, but this past week is when issues started showing up. Looking back, I think I was running the EC too high. The plants weren’t absorbing everything, and the excess started building up in the root zone. After a couple of weeks, it looks like that buildup became toxic.

Once the problem started, I picked up a BlueLab Pulse and used it to check the root zone EC. It came in at a surprising 2.0 EC—even though I’ve never fed above 1.2 EC. I realize now that was still too strong for where they’re currently at.

Since then, I’ve learned that Autopots can be prone to salt buildup just by how the system works. Going forward, I’ll be working in light flushes every 2–3 weeks to stay ahead of it. Once I finish flushing the other half of my veg tent, I’ll move on to the flower tent and do the same there.

This is what the first half looked like when I put them back under the light, after flushing and defoliating.




This is the other half of the veg tent, that still has a hot root zone that I will be addressing today

 

[Farmer's Hat]

Afterward, I wrung out the capillary mat and was pretty shocked to see the EC reading at 4.4 — way higher than I expected. I flushed that too, and it took five rounds of soaking and wringing to finally bring it down to 0.3 EC.

Makes me wonder if fabric pots have a similar issue. Salt build ups in the fabric causing ph issues and locking out the macros.
Interesting.

 

[GrindMind]

Makes me wonder if fabric pots have a similar issue. Salt build ups in the fabric causing ph issues and locking out the macros.
Interesting.

You might be on to something there.