Drip hydro nutrient vs Athena vs Jack

newbplantgrower420

Well-Known Member
Is Masterblend's 0-12-24 missing some micronutrients like Athena's Bloom? What does the total roughly come out to? Hydros sell $125 per Athena bag near me.

I feel like the N is too much in Jacks for bloom. Ive ran Athena 1 run had problems that run so didnt come to a conclusion with its NPK
 

Sickofitall420247

Well-Known Member
Is Masterblend's 0-12-24 missing some micronutrients like Athena's Bloom? What does the total roughly come out to? Hydros sell $125 per Athena bag near me.

I feel like the N is too much in Jacks for bloom. Ive ran Athena 1 run had problems that run so didnt come to a conclusion with its NPK
You mean athena core? Because Athena Bloom only consists of 5 different elements. Athena Core contains all of the micronutrients necessary.
 

kratosxxl

Well-Known Member
I just picked up a bag of this. It was clumped up pretty good but when I put it in the bucket I just broke it up with my hands. How are you liking it? how did you end up running it?
Its pretty good. Im at week 7. Everything looks fine , i dropped calnit completly
 

kratosxxl

Well-Known Member
Is Masterblend's 0-12-24 missing some micronutrients like Athena's Bloom? What does the total roughly come out to? Hydros sell $125 per Athena bag near me.

I feel like the N is too much in Jacks for bloom. Ive ran Athena 1 run had problems that run so didnt come to a conclusion with its NPK
What problems u had ?
 

newbplantgrower420

Well-Known Member
You mean athena core? Because Athena Bloom only consists of 5 different elements. Athena Core contains all of the micronutrients necessary.
Ya thats what I meant. Does MB's 0-12-24 contain all the missing micronutrients that Athena's Bloom doesnt have so you can just use your standard CalNit or is it still the same 5 elements as Athenas Bloom?
 

kratosxxl

Well-Known Member
Had Pm that run so I couldnt really tell if Athena was worth it. What does the MB 0-12-24 come out to total including shipping to you?
~90 :) so money wise not sure if its thst big of difference considering that only 1 online shop has it. I will try out athena next run
 

newbplantgrower420

Well-Known Member
~90 :) so money wise not sure if its thst big of difference considering that only 1 online shop has it. I will try out athena next run
Athenas 125$ + tax near me. its the same NPK as ur MB 0-12-24. Its also like concrete like you said earlier for MB 0-12-24. its tough to mix.

Idk if its worth it for you to try. MBs 0-12-24 seems the same and cheaper.
 

Sickofitall420247

Well-Known Member
Athenas 125$ + tax near me. its the same NPK as ur MB 0-12-24. Its also like concrete like you said earlier for MB 0-12-24. its tough to mix.

Idk if its worth it for you to try. MBs 0-12-24 seems the same and cheaper.
I honestly haven't had any problems with athena clumping. But then again I use their pre-weighed bags and I make sure my water is at least room temperature for my a stock solution
 

kratosxxl

Well-Known Member
Athenas 125$ + tax near me. its the same NPK as ur MB 0-12-24. Its also like concrete like you said earlier for MB 0-12-24. its tough to mix.

Idk if its worth it for you to try. MBs 0-12-24 seems the same and cheaper.
The problem is if my order gets delayed/canceled mid cycle im screwed in both cases. Athena or masterblend. But all hydros carry athena thats a pro for me
 

Roguedawg

Well-Known Member
Kratos please enlighten us, I left the cut out of it, I mean any cutting. If it is not the environment and how well the canopy is filled out then what is it. I am always ready to learn something new, I am just a horticulturist that has grown non stop for 30plus yrs, but I still learn something new from time to time.
 

kratosxxl

Well-Known Member
Kratos please enlighten us, I left the cut out of it, I mean any cutting. If it is not the environment and how well the canopy is filled out then what is it. I am always ready to learn something new, I am just a horticulturist that has grown non stop for 30plus yrs, but I still learn something new from time to time.
So im not here to argue , we all do we we feel is right but i cant get good yield and top shelf quality growing with MiracleGrow plant food from homedepot.Growing for smoking is super easy , growing for sale is fucking hard so relying on environment and canopy wont get u 3lb a light with insane sugary nugs. Dont get me wrong im not saying u cant all what im saying is to compete on the market and have consistensy u need more then good ac and prayers :))
 

Roguedawg

Well-Known Member
I am not trying to argue, if there is something i have not learned i want to. I understand the current market, I have been in it since it was 5 k a # to what it is today. I dont have any trouble outcompeting, and sure isnt hard to do. To the poster any of the three you asked about will give the same quality and quantity, in the same environment and with proper canopy management. Not sure where Miracle grow came into discussion but If miracle grow used a different N source I would be using it if it was cheaper and easier to get than Jacks one parts.
 

Cani80

Member
I mix my jacks up by EC, after making into one gallon super concentrated stock solutions. I don't weigh it at all anymore, or mess with the powders but once a year maybe, being a hobby grower.

It's super easy to mix that way for me. After you get an idea of the ratios you need, you know exactly how much volume of each stock part to add, and is just as easy ass using any other bottle of nutes IMO.
What is your ec targets for each part? For veg and flower?
 

Drop That Sound

Well-Known Member
What is your ec targets for each part? For veg and flower?

I don't really change it up much between veg or flower anymore, as far as the ratios go. I just increase or decrease the overall strength if it looks like it needs it, no matter the growth stage. Sometimes i'll make higher strength batch for some plants, and simply dilute for others instead of mixing again. I don't add much epsom's salt either,unless I'm using RO or some other purified water, which isn't too often. I just add maybe 20-50PPMs worth when I do, sometimes. I mostly grow DWC, and usually run lower ec, or whatever they are asking for.. I prefer multiple lower EC feedings with any other system or medium too.

I've tried measuring out the exact numbers a few times, using my trusty old .5 scale TDS meter. The most recent measurements that I wrote down for the old 3.6-2.4-1.1 amounts came out to around 950-960 total, mixed properly and directly into a purified gallon jug of water from the store. I checked each time I added a part, but then again numbers change the more it dissolves, how many air bubbles, temps, etc and my measurements were different than the last times I checked. I haven't tried with the new 3.7-2.5 or whatever levels they recommend on the newer feed chart either, but it shouldn't be much different.. The part A brought it up to around 560. Then the epsom's @ 1.1 added roughly 100 PPM. Which means the calnit would be around 300 or so. I dunno, my meter might be different than everyones, but its close enough for the girls I grow with..

There are many variables that could change it up, especially measuring out only 3.6g for the test, for example. There could be more little chunks of one component in the little scoop of part A, which could throw it off by maybe 20 ppm or so.. I can think of more reasons its not the best test. Everyone has different water sources too, some might even need PH up or down, which adds a few points to the total. Stock concentrate will always be the same though once mixed. I used a cheap scale too, and it bounces around by a tenth, so who knows..
Probably better to use 3 gallons or more to measure out the exact levels with like I did, and triple the nutes.. It would be more equal of a reading, for part A anyway. Calnits not as big a deal, because its all the same stuff. I might go ahead and do that, along with the new 3.7 something-2.52 or whatever feeding levels they recommend these days..

Anyway, I have a chart with the target levels for each part I came up with a few years ago somewhere, without having to do the math, which is easy enough without once you know whats up. Until I find it, Here's the formula I been using to get the 3-2 ratio:

First figure out what you want your final target number to be. Say its 1000ppm (or 2.0 ec). Do you need Espoms? OK lets say you do, and you want to add 50 PPM. I subtract that from the total, so it would be 950. Lets say you don't need it though, and your water source (as well as whats already in part A) has enough mag and sulfer, I would just go ahead and call it 1000. They're just weeds anyway, and will tolerate a wide range ;)

Now, to get the target you need for part A, you take the 1000, and divide it by 5 (to get the 500 or .5 scale I need for my tds meter) which is 200. Then, multiply that by 3. 600 is your first target number to reach, as you pour in your concentrate. You'll get used to how much to add eventually, and just go by volume if you want. I always want to double check anyway, which is why i just mix with my meter instead most the time.

To get the target for the Part B calnit, (basically you just add until you hit 1000 or whatever total, and don't really need to know the formula the way I mix with the meter) you just take the 1000 total and divide by 5 again, but this time multiply that by 2 instead of 3. 200x2 is 400.

So ya, 600 for A and 400 for B. Easy ;)

800 total PPM w/o any epsoms for me would be:
Part A - 480
Part B - 320

If I was adding 50 ppm of epsom's it would be:
Part A - 450
Epsom's salt - 50
Part B - 300

Works good for me :bigjoint:
 

Cani80

Member
I don't really change it up much between veg or flower anymore, as far as the ratios go. I just increase or decrease the overall strength if it looks like it needs it, no matter the growth stage. Sometimes i'll make higher strength batch for some plants, and simply dilute for others instead of mixing again. I don't add much epsom's salt either,unless I'm using RO or some other purified water, which isn't too often. I just add maybe 20-50PPMs worth when I do, sometimes. I mostly grow DWC, and usually run lower ec, or whatever they are asking for.. I prefer multiple lower EC feedings with any other system or medium too.

I've tried measuring out the exact numbers a few times, using my trusty old .5 scale TDS meter. The most recent measurements that I wrote down for the old 3.6-2.4-1.1 amounts came out to around 950-960 total, mixed properly and directly into a purified gallon jug of water from the store. I checked each time I added a part, but then again numbers change the more it dissolves, how many air bubbles, temps, etc and my measurements were different than the last times I checked. I haven't tried with the new 3.7-2.5 or whatever levels they recommend on the newer feed chart either, but it shouldn't be much different.. The part A brought it up to around 560. Then the epsom's @ 1.1 added roughly 100 PPM. Which means the calnit would be around 300 or so. I dunno, my meter might be different than everyones, but its close enough for the girls I grow with..

There are many variables that could change it up, especially measuring out only 3.6g for the test, for example. There could be more little chunks of one component in the little scoop of part A, which could throw it off by maybe 20 ppm or so.. I can think of more reasons its not the best test. Everyone has different water sources too, some might even need PH up or down, which adds a few points to the total. Stock concentrate will always be the same though once mixed. I used a cheap scale too, and it bounces around by a tenth, so who knows..
Probably better to use 3 gallons or more to measure out the exact levels with like I did, and triple the nutes.. It would be more equal of a reading, for part A anyway. Calnits not as big a deal, because its all the same stuff. I might go ahead and do that, along with the new 3.7 something-2.52 or whatever feeding levels they recommend these days..

Anyway, I have a chart with the target levels for each part I came up with a few years ago somewhere, without having to do the math, which is easy enough without once you know whats up. Until I find it, Here's the formula I been using to get the 3-2 ratio:

First figure out what you want your final target number to be. Say its 1000ppm (or 2.0 ec). Do you need Espoms? OK lets say you do, and you want to add 50 PPM. I subtract that from the total, so it would be 950. Lets say you don't need it though, and your water source (as well as whats already in part A) has enough mag and sulfer, I would just go ahead and call it 1000. They're just weeds anyway, and will tolerate a wide range ;)

Now, to get the target you need for part A, you take the 1000, and divide it by 5 (to get the 500 or .5 scale I need for my tds meter) which is 200. Then, multiply that by 3. 600 is your first target number to reach, as you pour in your concentrate. You'll get used to how much to add eventually, and just go by volume if you want. I always want to double check anyway, which is why i just mix with my meter instead most the time.

To get the target for the Part B calnit, (basically you just add until you hit 1000 or whatever total, and don't really need to know the formula the way I mix with the meter) you just take the 1000 total and divide by 5 again, but this time multiply that by 2 instead of 3. 200x2 is 400.

So ya, 600 for A and 400 for B. Easy ;)

800 total PPM w/o any epsoms for me would be:
Part A - 480
Part B - 320

If I was adding 50 ppm of epsom's it would be:
Part A - 450
Epsom's salt - 50
Part B - 300

Works good for me :bigjoint:
Thanks for the reply. I've come to do my ppm like that with athena but think I'm switching back to jacks. I did not like the results with the athena. Maybe something went wrong but I had some really good runs with jacks and gh maxi in past even combining jacks for veg and maxi for the bloom. I wasn't getting the ppm numbers they were saying by doing thier recommend weight measurements so I just did each part by ppm. And thier ec/ppm recommend numbers seem insane to me. Anyways I will give what you said a shot. Tyty
 

kratosxxl

Well-Known Member
I don't really change it up much between veg or flower anymore, as far as the ratios go. I just increase or decrease the overall strength if it looks like it needs it, no matter the growth stage. Sometimes i'll make higher strength batch for some plants, and simply dilute for others instead of mixing again. I don't add much epsom's salt either,unless I'm using RO or some other purified water, which isn't too often. I just add maybe 20-50PPMs worth when I do, sometimes. I mostly grow DWC, and usually run lower ec, or whatever they are asking for.. I prefer multiple lower EC feedings with any other system or medium too.

I've tried measuring out the exact numbers a few times, using my trusty old .5 scale TDS meter. The most recent measurements that I wrote down for the old 3.6-2.4-1.1 amounts came out to around 950-960 total, mixed properly and directly into a purified gallon jug of water from the store. I checked each time I added a part, but then again numbers change the more it dissolves, how many air bubbles, temps, etc and my measurements were different than the last times I checked. I haven't tried with the new 3.7-2.5 or whatever levels they recommend on the newer feed chart either, but it shouldn't be much different.. The part A brought it up to around 560. Then the epsom's @ 1.1 added roughly 100 PPM. Which means the calnit would be around 300 or so. I dunno, my meter might be different than everyones, but its close enough for the girls I grow with..

There are many variables that could change it up, especially measuring out only 3.6g for the test, for example. There could be more little chunks of one component in the little scoop of part A, which could throw it off by maybe 20 ppm or so.. I can think of more reasons its not the best test. Everyone has different water sources too, some might even need PH up or down, which adds a few points to the total. Stock concentrate will always be the same though once mixed. I used a cheap scale too, and it bounces around by a tenth, so who knows..
Probably better to use 3 gallons or more to measure out the exact levels with like I did, and triple the nutes.. It would be more equal of a reading, for part A anyway. Calnits not as big a deal, because its all the same stuff. I might go ahead and do that, along with the new 3.7 something-2.52 or whatever feeding levels they recommend these days..

Anyway, I have a chart with the target levels for each part I came up with a few years ago somewhere, without having to do the math, which is easy enough without once you know whats up. Until I find it, Here's the formula I been using to get the 3-2 ratio:

First figure out what you want your final target number to be. Say its 1000ppm (or 2.0 ec). Do you need Espoms? OK lets say you do, and you want to add 50 PPM. I subtract that from the total, so it would be 950. Lets say you don't need it though, and your water source (as well as whats already in part A) has enough mag and sulfer, I would just go ahead and call it 1000. They're just weeds anyway, and will tolerate a wide range ;)

Now, to get the target you need for part A, you take the 1000, and divide it by 5 (to get the 500 or .5 scale I need for my tds meter) which is 200. Then, multiply that by 3. 600 is your first target number to reach, as you pour in your concentrate. You'll get used to how much to add eventually, and just go by volume if you want. I always want to double check anyway, which is why i just mix with my meter instead most the time.

To get the target for the Part B calnit, (basically you just add until you hit 1000 or whatever total, and don't really need to know the formula the way I mix with the meter) you just take the 1000 total and divide by 5 again, but this time multiply that by 2 instead of 3. 200x2 is 400.

So ya, 600 for A and 400 for B. Easy ;)

800 total PPM w/o any epsoms for me would be:
Part A - 480
Part B - 320

If I was adding 50 ppm of epsom's it would be:
Part A - 450
Epsom's salt - 50
Part B - 300

Works good for me :bigjoint:
Wow interestingly low ppm. Im aiming at 1500 ppm in flower and all looks amazing but uses a lot of salt like 1lb per watering every other day
 
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