Dr Who is right! ... Rx Green Technologies Report

W

waterproof808

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
my bad. my EC meter can measure the difference between distilled water and sugar water. how come a Hanna can't???View attachment 5159467View attachment 5159468

in case you can't see, it's a 1 in the distilled and an 11 in the sugar. or to be really technical, 11 microS vs 1microS.

like i said an EC meter is not the same as a TDS meter.
Click to expand...
That HM meter converts EC to TDS using 0.5 conversion factor, you can check the website for yourself.
11 microsiemens is only ~6ppms difference, which is likely just impurities in your sugar. If you added a similar amount of salt to that glass of, you'd see a much bigger change in TDS reading.

The only difference between a TDS and EC Meter is EC just displays conductivity, TDS meters convert the conductivity number and display it as PPM instead.
 
Last edited:
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
I never use these, but I have a cheap one here so I figured I'd try the sugar water vs reg well water just for fun. The sugar water read lower than the plain well water. Cheap Safeway brand white sugar. My guess is the sugar is binding with some of the minerals in my water and falling out of solution. But hell if I know.
 
W

waterproof808

Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior said:
I never use these, but I have a cheap one here so I figured I'd try the sugar water vs reg well water just for fun. The sugar water read lower than the plain well water. Cheap Safeway brand white sugar. My guess is the sugar is binding with some of the minerals in my water and falling out of solution. But hell if I know.
Click to expand...
Sugar doesn’t conduct electricity. TDS meters work by measuring electric conductivity. You lowered the conductivity of your water by adding sugar, even though the actual dissolved solids has increased.
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
Apparently they don't.

You can soak any plant matter in water and the ppm's will go up. Run some water through coffee and the ppm's go up. Much of that is caffeine. I could go out and take some radish leaves from my 100% organic garden and soak them in water and the ppm's will go up. They're using completely flawed methodology to come to their conclusion.

Instead of believing people that have actual degrees in the field of science they choose to believe what a couple stoners put in some books thirty years ago.
Click to expand...
And by removing caffeine you don't remove fertilizer?
Screenshot_20220707-092033~2.png
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
waterproof808 said:
Yep, that’s one reason why salts are called electrolytes.
Click to expand...
Yes, when dissolved in water, the salt is a combination of positively- & negatively charged molecules (an +kation)
rkymtnman said:
my bad. my EC meter can measure the difference between distilled water and sugar water. how come a Hanna can't???View attachment 5159467View attachment 5159468

in case you can't see, it's a 1 in the distilled and an 11 in the sugar. or to be really technical, 11 microS vs 1microS.

like i said an EC meter is not the same as a TDS meter.

The Difference Between TDS and EC meter
Even though you can use EC results to determine TDS levels, these meters are different, which is why the conversion doesn’t provide exact TDS results. TDS meter measures both particles that generate EC and those that don’t carry electricity.
Thus, EC to TDS conversion factors vary, depending on the contents that are included in the sample. These factors generally have a range from 0.4 – 1.0. That said, the substances that doesn’t impact the levels of EC, yet they do affect TDS levels, make EC measurement insufficient to determine the TDS values.
EC is usually measured and converted to TDS to provide the approximate TDS values. Furthermore, TDS meters automatically convert EC value which is determined by the conversion factor. To get the real TDS value, you need to take your sample to the laboratory where it will be further examined. You might think that it is better to use a meter that has the widest measurement range. However, using one meer that focuses on a specific area, increase the accuracy of your results.

slainte!
Click to expand...
24k posts and still got it all wrong. My 2 TDS meter measure a nute solution (Hesi TnT, that has Urea for N, plus Aminos, Carbs, Vits etc (read: non-ionic plant food) only about 30% (ie way less than the lowest conversion x0.5) than my EC meter.

Using cheap measuring instruments will get you nowhere. This stuff isn't precise and only leads to wrong conclusions.

But you could have looked at the electrodes and saw it's essentially the same hardware.
To measure real ppm you need to find out the nature of all the molecules.
Sometimes the electrochemical power of a molecule or atom changes with the pH of the solution - a Ca++ will exert stronger force enabling better electronflow than a Ca+. But both is the same ppm of Ca. Which is what the plant can use as food. The measurements use the powers that stem from the outer electron hull whereas the ppm refers to the nuclei.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija said:
And by removing caffeine you don't remove fertilizer?
View attachment 5159637
Click to expand...
No you're not removing fertilizer. Caffeine is a drug produced by a variety of different plants. Another example is steeping mint in water. That removes the menthol, terpenoids, and flavonoids which give mint tea its flavor and smell. You're not drinking the fertilizer used to grow the plant.

If you soak cannabis in water the ppm's in the water go up but you're removing terpenes and other compounds produced by the plant which is why water curing makes a smooth smoke but removes most of the flavor while leaving the THC and CBD which are hydrophobic and not water soluble. I'm sure if you were to do a chemical analysis there would be elements such as nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, etc... in small amounts but that's not the fertilizer the plant was fed. All plant matter is composed of elements such as nitrogen, calcium, carbon, etc... If you could flush them away then you would be left with nothing.

As far as flushing is concerned if people want to flush let them. I don't because it's a waste of time and I don't do things just because some old stoners said it works and put it in some decades old books full of inaccurate information. I do things based on science.
 
Billy the Mountain

Billy the Mountain

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
my bad. my EC meter can measure the difference between distilled water and sugar water. how come a Hanna can't???View attachment 5159467View attachment 5159468

in case you can't see, it's a 1 in the distilled and an 11 in the sugar. or to be really technical, 11 microS vs 1microS.

like i said an EC meter is not the same as a TDS meter.

The Difference Between TDS and EC meter
Even though you can use EC results to determine TDS levels, these meters are different, which is why the conversion doesn’t provide exact TDS results. TDS meter measures both particles that generate EC and those that don’t carry electricity.
Thus, EC to TDS conversion factors vary, depending on the contents that are included in the sample. These factors generally have a range from 0.4 – 1.0. That said, the substances that doesn’t impact the levels of EC, yet they do affect TDS levels, make EC measurement insufficient to determine the TDS values.
EC is usually measured and converted to TDS to provide the approximate TDS values. Furthermore, TDS meters automatically convert EC value which is determined by the conversion factor. To get the real TDS value, you need to take your sample to the laboratory where it will be further examined. You might think that it is better to use a meter that has the widest measurement range. However, using one meer that focuses on a specific area, increase the accuracy of your results.

slainte!
Click to expand...
That's not correct

They both measure conductivity exclusively. The only difference is the displayed value.
TDS is simply a conversion factor to give the ppm of a NaCl solution, i.e. the 500 scale.
Same applies to the 700 scale which is for a KCL solution
Conductivity of different salts varies dramatically, so the ppm values are only valid for the salt they are "calibrated" for

Everyone should stick to EC to avoid confusion
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Billy the Mountain said:
That's not correct

They both measure conductivity exclusively. The only difference is the displayed value.
TDS is simply a conversion factor to give the ppm of a NaCl solution, i.e. the 500 scale.
Same applies to the 700 scale which is for a KCL solution
Conductivity of different salts varies dramatically, so the ppm values are only valid for the salt they are "calibrated" for

Everyone should stick to EC to avoid confusion
Click to expand...
sorry but that's not correct from what i've found

So, what is the difference between conductivity and TDS meters?
In pure scientific terms, conductivity tells you how well electricity is passing through a substance. On the other hand, TDS indicates the amount of dissolved solids within a liquid, accounting for both conductible and non-conductible particles.
In practice, when measuring conductivity and TDS both conductivity meters and TDS meters pass electricity through a liquid. In fact, conductivity meters are used to estimate the TDS in a substance.
How is this done? Simply, TDS meters measure conductivity, then apply a conversion factor. Even if your meter is a TDS-only meter and does not display conductivity it still uses electrical conductivity with a conversion factor to calculate the TDS results.
Why? Well, for a true TDS measurement you have to evaporate all the moisture from your sample, then weigh the solid residue. While this is the most accurate method, in practice it is often impractical.
In summary, there is a correlation between conductivity and TDS. They are not the same. TDS meters that use conductivity to generate measurements only estimate TDS


if they measure in 2 different units (siemens and parts per million) , they can't be the same thing. one is an estimation of the other.
 
twentyeight.threefive

twentyeight.threefive

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
sorry but that's not correct from what i've found

So, what is the difference between conductivity and TDS meters?
In pure scientific terms, conductivity tells you how well electricity is passing through a substance. On the other hand, TDS indicates the amount of dissolved solids within a liquid, accounting for both conductible and non-conductible particles.
In practice, when measuring conductivity and TDS both conductivity meters and TDS meters pass electricity through a liquid. In fact, conductivity meters are used to estimate the TDS in a substance.
How is this done? Simply, TDS meters measure conductivity, then apply a conversion factor. Even if your meter is a TDS-only meter and does not display conductivity it still uses electrical conductivity with a conversion factor to calculate the TDS results.
Why? Well, for a true TDS measurement you have to evaporate all the moisture from your sample, then weigh the solid residue. While this is the most accurate method, in practice it is often impractical.
In summary, there is a correlation between conductivity and TDS. They are not the same. TDS meters that use conductivity to generate measurements only estimate TDS


if they measure in 2 different units (siemens and parts per million) , they can't be the same thing. one is an estimation of the other.
Click to expand...
You’re wrong. It happens.

The red part is very important.

You can’t measure true ppm without knowing the solution volume and the volume of substance you are dissolving in it. (or the mass of both)

TDS pens estimate ppm by using EC to make a calculation.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
sorry but that's not correct from what i've found

So, what is the difference between conductivity and TDS meters?
In pure scientific terms, conductivity tells you how well electricity is passing through a substance. On the other hand, TDS indicates the amount of dissolved solids within a liquid, accounting for both conductible and non-conductible particles.
In practice, when measuring conductivity and TDS both conductivity meters and TDS meters pass electricity through a liquid. In fact, conductivity meters are used to estimate the TDS in a substance.
How is this done? Simply, TDS meters measure conductivity, then apply a conversion factor. Even if your meter is a TDS-only meter and does not display conductivity it still uses electrical conductivity with a conversion factor to calculate the TDS results.
Why? Well, for a true TDS measurement you have to evaporate all the moisture from your sample, then weigh the solid residue. While this is the most accurate method, in practice it is often impractical.
In summary, there is a correlation between conductivity and TDS. They are not the same. TDS meters that use conductivity to generate measurements only estimate TDS


if they measure in 2 different units (siemens and parts per million) , they can't be the same thing. one is an estimation of the other.
Click to expand...
Can you link us to a true TDS meter?
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
twentyeight.threefive said:
TDS pens estimate ppm by using EC to make a calculation
Click to expand...
correct. so a tds meter is not the same as an EC meter. thanks. a siemen and parts per million aren't the same either.

for further arguments: call these people and argue with them. this is just one source that says the same thing.
Speak to a scientist 1300 737 871
Need help? Call our scientists & select with confidence
ref: 06 Oct 2020 article
 
twentyeight.threefive

twentyeight.threefive

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
correct. so a tds meter is not the same as an EC meter. thanks. a siemen and parts per million aren't the same either.

for further arguments: call these people and argue with them. this is just one source that says the same thing.
Speak to a scientist 1300 737 871
Need help? Call our scientists & select with confidence
ref: 06 Oct 2020 article
Click to expand...
It’s exactly the same. They both measure EC….
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
twentyeight.threefive said:
You’re wrong. It happens.

The red part is very important.

You can’t measure true ppm without knowing the solution volume and the volume of substance you are dissolving in it. (or the mass of both)

TDS pens estimate ppm by using EC to make a calculation.
Click to expand...
Exactly. This is why you can use math to determine what your final ppm output is (assuming that you know the input variables), but you can't really "meter" it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top