Should the US shed blood for Ukraine

[MICHI-CAN]

Why is blood being leveraged, let alone shed for corporate, political and personal power when we have abundance of all but reality?

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Why is blood being leveraged, let alone shed for corporate, political and personal power when we have abundance of all but reality?

because unscrupulous people have tied those worthless values to freedom...they take advantage of situations where allies help allies to remain free, and profiteer on the blood and sweat of others...if an ally of freedom is threatened, it is up to all lovers of freedom to help them

 

[MICHI-CAN]

because unscrupulous people have tied those worthless values to freedom...they take advantage of situations where allies help allies to remain free, and profiteer on the blood and sweat of others...if an ally of freedom is threatened, it is up to all lovers of freedom to help them

And if ever we knew freedom. Cut the powerline to he house and talk of freedom. LMAO. Free to self indebt.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

And if ever we knew freedom. Cut the powerline to he house and talk of freedom. LMAO. Free to self indebt.

you give up some things for other things...i like having a computer, a fridge and freezer, a stove, lights, heating in the winter and cooling in the summer...i don't NEED those things, they just make life a lot easier and more comfortable. in exchange for those things, i'm willing to pay for the energy required to use them...if you really feel shackled by your electric bill, look into installing some alternative energy sources, which you would still have to purchase, and cutting down how much power you use...maybe you need to be talking to robroy...

 

[MICHI-CAN]

you give up some things for other things...i like having a computer, a fridge and freezer, a stove, lights, heating in the winter and cooling in the summer...i don't NEED those things, they just make life a lot easier and more comfortable. in exchange for those things, i'm willing to pay for the energy required to use them...if you really feel shackled by your electric bill, look into installing some alternative energy sources, which you would still have to purchase, and cutting down how much power you use...maybe you need to be talking to robroy...

Peace at best. Not all are mortal kombat fans. LOL.

 

[Fogdog]

methigan is back.

Interesting how the moment Putin gets into trouble the trolls ooze their way across the floor and shit post. Why? well, let's just follow the money, shall we?

 

[MICHI-CAN]

methigan is back.

Interesting how the moment Putin gets into trouble the trolls ooze their way across the floor and shit post. Why? well, let's just follow the money, shall we?

And I submit my time sheet where? Paid useful idiot. Why not move back to Okie and drown in a bathtub? Vicariously through me is a but a falisey.

 

[Sativied]

Say what?

He’s saying Germany is poor compared to some of the richest countries because they spent net ~0.33% of gdp on EU, and because they need Russian fossil fuel to empower the green revolution. And because immigrants need housing according to their social laws, which implement the basic human right to housing most EU countries have, except in practice for maybe a few low bars like poor Greece or racist Hungary. And they are poor because giving jobs to immigrants is bad for the economy. So they can’t afford to spend more on military budget to support the aggressor, the US.

Guess which eurosceptic political party in Germany opposes wind farms, blames immigrants, is very popular amongst Russians in Germany and does not want sanctions against Russia…

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

He’s saying Germany is poor compared to some of the richest countries because they spent net ~0.33% of gdp on EU, and because they need Russian fossil fuel to empower the green revolution. And because immigrants need housing according to their social laws, which implement the basic human right to housing most EU countries have, except in practice for maybe a few low bars like poor Greece or racist Hungary. And they are poor because giving jobs to immigrants is bad for the economy. So they can’t afford to spend more on military budget to support the aggressor, the US.

Guess which eurosceptic political party in Germany opposes wind farms, blames immigrants, is very popular amongst Russians in Germany and does not want sanctions against Russia…

i'm guessing maybe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany

check out their policies... ...looks like there are still some nazis in Germany

 

[Fogdog]

He’s saying Germany is poor compared to some of the richest countries because they spent net ~0.33% of gdp on EU, and because they need Russian fossil fuel to empower the green revolution. And because immigrants need housing according to their social laws, which implement the basic human right to housing most EU countries have, except in practice for maybe a few low bars like poor Greece or racist Hungary. And they are poor because giving jobs to immigrants is bad for the economy. So they can’t afford to spend more on military budget to support the aggressor, the US.

Guess which eurosceptic political party in Germany opposes wind farms, blames immigrants, is very popular amongst Russians in Germany and does not want sanctions against Russia…

Thanks for providing context. I was struggling to understand why @Kassiopeija showed fear of discussing the subject of Putin's aggression and deflecting to irrelevant topics.

Alt right with a German bent. Makes sense. Right wing authoritarians stick together.

 

[Sativied]

Yes that’s the one. I will say there‘s plenty of people who parrot those points without realizing the origin. Especially in more rural less educated parts. But then, that’s a whole lot of similarities in just a couple of posts. Ask the German guy if there’s any other party opposing wind energy. I’d be surprised. True story, it’s the seemingly floating red lights of wind turbines in Germany that indicate to me where the border is on my way back. A route I take cause there’s small city on the dutch side that has a single coffeeshop (Ankara) with usually good yet low priced hash and herb. Maybe I developed a Pavlov response to those red blinking lights. Anyway, they do have a lot of them, on land, which not everyone likes, which in turn is great for any populist.

I visit Germany almost monthly but really don’t know enough to refute the “we here in Germany think US is paranoid aggressor and Putin looks hot on a horse“ part. That said, it sounds very east german to me. I know Germans to be very reasonable, down to earth and anything close to nazi is heavily frowned upon.

Let’s see… yes makes sense, I only go to the far west part. A years old but only less than 10% nazi there, closet nazis. All the dark parts in the east, that’s former DDR, that’s where they are popular. Seems obvious where those districts with high russian german population are.


But then Merkel is from east germany too and she’s pretty awesome.

This map sure makes a good argument for anyone saying the allies should have went all the way to Moscow… but then, part of the reason for the current conflict is Russia not getting the recognition they deserve for their role.

 

[Jimdamick]

Anyway, they do have a lot of them, on land, which not everyone likes,

Maybe if they colored the wind turbines like this they'd like 'em?

 

[CCGNZ]

Read my post above. Russia isn't a democracy, nor is it a place where one can trust in their legal system to enforce contracts. So, no. I've seen how investing in that country can go. It's like trying to invest in the Mafia.

I'm convinced that Putin's Russia is just saber rattling and testing the NATO alliance. Its not going well for Putin.

OK, I can't compete w/your personal experience,maybe when he croaks if he doesn't manage to irradiate the world by then,Russia can be "worked with",I'm looking for some kind of solution here and it's difficult to deal w/someone sitting on all those nukes,I'm just concerned about a China/Russia alliance and would like Russia to tilt West,I know it's a corrupt country(obviously not on your personal level), it's hard to root out entrenched behavior. When Russia was under Yeltzin and free markets were tried ordinary Russians mostly got FKD, hard to believe that old Russian ladies in black shauls actually yearned for the days that they waited in a 1/2 mile long line for a 6 ounce meat ration ,leaving a vacuum for Vlad to step in and provide nostalgic comfort.

 

[CCGNZ]

I don't really give a shit if you don't understand the meaning of your words.

To empathize with Russia because "missiles at their border" means what to you, exactly? Lol at your reference to a crisis between two states that don't even exist any more.

To me your "missiles at Russia's border" statement was a diversion and distraction away from the abuse Putin is heaping on its neighbor in retaliation for the Orange Revolution, when the people made the government of Ukraine eject it's Russian puppet and install a Ukrainian-controlled government. Nothing Putin is doing in Ukraine right now has anything to do with some missiles in Romania. Not "at the border", That is an appeal to emotion. Maybe it works in Borschtland. Not here.

But what do you mean by the "missiles at the border". What I see is "pity Russia, the US is such a bully, Ukraine is at fault for the beating Putin is inflicting"

What you said? What I see in your post is a fact free, logic-free string of ad-hominins, half truths and appeals to emotion.

I didn't vote for Bush. I didn't vote for Trump. I've been showing up to protests and actively working with other Democrats to change this country's zeitgeist of white power and creeping fascism into one that is more like the people living here now. What Trump and the GOP want is a state 60 or more years go. For the first time ever, I'm optimistic about the possibility of living in a multicultural democracy. So fuck off with that kind of bullshit about "you voted for Bush".

Biden is my president. After four years of opposing Trump and watching him slobber all over Putin's shoes, i'm relieved to see Biden putting Putin on the back foot with our NATO allies. He was not my first choice for president but he is probably a better leader for this divided nation than Elizabeth Warren was. Warren was my #1 choice in the 2020 primary.

My work has taken me around the globe to many strange countries of the world. Japan, Korea, Singapore, Mexico, Spain, and Florida, for a few examples. Regarding Russia, I worked on a project that started out as a partnership with one of their departments to shift a product line into an un-used industrial site. I was training up for extended stays in the country and even started taking lessons in Russian. Then, the Russian government backed away and stole all the shit we sent there. That's my personal experience with that Kleptocracy. What a relief that I didn't have to go to that shithole.

About 30% of Ukraine, mostly along it's eastern border with Russia want to live under his thumb. So what if they do? We even have some US citizens who slobber at the idea too. In that regard, I can see why your kind are so angry. Majority rule is a hard thing for authoritarians to accept.

Perish the thought of the Russia/Ukraine crisis w/Trump in office,wondering why Putin didn't do this 2yrs ago(big blunder for his agenda)

 

[hillbill]

Not just No, but Hell No!
2 nuke nuts countries don’t need to be killing soldiers of each other.

 

[CCGNZ]

from my point of view it is mind-boggling how much the US is willing to spend into wars, and how paranoid & aggressive you pursue your interests.
we here in Germany are heavily funding the EU, and try to empower the green revolution. this is where we really put alot of money into it. not wars, or weapons, or military. this is a primitive way to deal with problems.
we are not very rich from an individual point, the scandinavians have higher income & better social security. our quality of life & social security took a large hit as we had to care about several millions migrants caused by the stupid wars in arabia.
look at other countries when they have migrants many will hav to live on the streets, falling easy prey to become criminals. we want to prevent that so our social laws impose that the state has to give shelter - a home - to anyone living here. we also give them work. but its costly to do that so we have to cut funds elsewhere.
seriously, here in Germany we don't understand the paranoia the US has with the Russian. 20 years ago we made a deal to take german WW2 emigrants back and this cultural influx caused a mutual understanding. Most problems we have is with the Kremlin that kills political rivals & bully their neighbours. But all big militaristic states do that to some extent...

Maybe we are paranoid because American soldiers have went to Europe TWICE in the last 100yrs and died,and we also spent a lot of money on a thing called the Berlin Airlift, to keep the Soviets from starving Germans

 

[CCGNZ]

Yes that’s the one. I will say there‘s plenty of people who parrot those points without realizing the origin. Especially in more rural less educated parts. But then, that’s a whole lot of similarities in just a couple of posts. Ask the German guy if there’s any other party opposing wind energy. I’d be surprised. True story, it’s the seemingly floating red lights of wind turbines in Germany that indicate to me where the border is on my way back. A route I take cause there’s small city on the dutch side that has a single coffeeshop (Ankara) with usually good yet low priced hash and herb. Maybe I developed a Pavlov response to those red blinking lights. Anyway, they do have a lot of them, on land, which not everyone likes, which in turn is great for any populist.

I visit Germany almost monthly but really don’t know enough to refute the “we here in Germany think US is paranoid aggressor and Putin looks hot on a horse“ part. That said, it sounds very east german to me. I know Germans to be very reasonable, down to earth and anything close to nazi is heavily frowned upon.

Let’s see… yes makes sense, I only go to the far west part. A years old but only less than 10% nazi there, closet nazis. All the dark parts in the east, that’s former DDR, that’s where they are popular. Seems obvious where those districts with high russian german population are.
View attachment 5083545

But then Merkel is from east germany too and she’s pretty awesome.

This map sure makes a good argument for anyone saying the allies should have went all the way to Moscow… but then, part of the reason for the current conflict is Russia not getting the recognition they deserve for their role.

I agree that most of the demons in Germany's closet are in the East,they struggled w/integration into one Germany and those who had prominent positions(Stasi and high ranking communist party members)still yearn for the past along w/ a higher % of Far Right and Nazi sympathizers. Hard to believe Merkel was from the East( decent leader and I liked her). Your also right that the West had a Laissez-Faire attitude with regard to the carnage and sacrifice endured by the Russian people(Stalin never should have signed the non aggression pact)

 

[schuylaar]

no need to shed blood we have killer drones.

Putin is already looking for a way out (i thought he'd use Games as cover) as i've been posting he would per Russian Playbook.

Ruse because Convenient Orange Fool is gone and Putin continues to lash out because of it.

then Putin gives the US a list of demands?

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Perish the thought of the Russia/Ukraine crisis w/Trump in office,wondering why Putin didn't do this 2yrs ago(big blunder for his agenda)

putin didn't need to do anything like this under trump, trump was removing and crippling sanctions against russia, and asisting in their money laundering process...all that stopped when trump lost, and Biden not only started enforcing the sanction in place, but added more, expelling a few russians from the country, and adding that U.S. banks cannot buy russian bonds any longer. trump was publicly against the pipeliine, but tillerson, who trump appointed, exempted the pipeline from existing sanctions...the secretary of state doesn't get to make those decisions if the president doesn't support them...
Biden did drop the sanctions on the pipeline, in order to reestablish good relations with Germany, but also required Germany to pledge to help Ukraine if they were invaded...bad trade, imo, but he at least had good intentions....

 

[CCGNZ]

putin didn't need to do anything like this under trump, trump was removing and crippling sanctions against russia, and asisting in their money laundering process...all that stopped when trump lost, and Biden not only started enforcing the sanction in place, but added more, expelling a few russians from the country, and adding that U.S. banks cannot buy russian bonds any longer. trump was publicly against the pipeliine, but tillerson, who trump appointed, exempted the pipeline from existing sanctions...the secretary of state doesn't get to make those decisions if the president doesn't support them...
Biden did drop the sanctions on the pipeline, in order to reestablish good relations with Germany, but also required Germany to pledge to help Ukraine if they were invaded...bad trade, imo, but he at least had good intentions....

Tillerson and Mattis wouldn't put up w/Trumps BS, Trump can't deal w/truth spoken to power,the FKN scariest thing on Jan 6 to me was that his whole cabinet was "ACTING", no Senate confirmed appointees, nothing but lackeys and wannabees, never seen a whole unconfirmed cabinet in my life. I still have to pinch myself that a WhiteHouse could be at that level of chaos and disarray,SCARY