Another Republican President, Another Recession.

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I remember Obama and cash for clunkers. Auto bailouts. Why did car prices become so high? Cash for clunkers took used cars off the market.
And how much do you think getting all those old gas guzzlers off the road helped get our nation to be far less reliant on the middle east's oil?

Also helped metro Detroit buisinesses immensely. All those regular hard working Americans that relied on the auto industry and car dealerships for their livelihoods jobs were saved from that program.

Obama's cash for first time homeowners. $8,000 tax credit for the purchase of a home. Home sellers just jacked up home prices. Real estate bail out for those buying houses. Paid for by your taxes.
Are you joking? I actually saw my neighborhoods housing prices go from about $170k to the neighbor on one side of my home getting bought up by a investor for $32k, and the other side of my house go for $26k during the Great Recession.

Those programs helped give people the ability to buy a home and helped stabalize prices from those devastating lows for all the hard working people who lost their jobs due to the Republican led economic collapse.
 

doug58

Well-Known Member
Biden repeatedly stated that taxes would not be raised on families making less than $400k a year.


You do know there is a pandemic going on right? This has devastated the service economy because we have been acting like we have not understood virus/bacteria and the like for decades.

We need to figure out how to do things differently as a society. You think we would have learned with 60,000 people dying of a flu each year to not breath in each other's bodily fluids by now, but 350k+ dying from this virus unfotuntly is showing us the very real dangers of this.



They can't unless they have a lot of wealth backing them up. That is why Trump and the Republican's lack of a response has been so devastating. Our economy is fucked. We needed a strong federal response to this disaster, but Trump and the Republicans let it crumble (just like they did in 2008 right before Obama took office).

It sucks that they did this to us again.

But since they are legislating for only one demographic who has enough money to snatch up all those struggling loans on the cheap, economic collapses are really in their favor.



Again, pandemic.

How are your hospital's bed capacity doing? Do you think having a bunch of random people who are under the impression it is safe to travel coming into your community would change that?


Pandemics suck. I really wish that people would have not been brainwashed into thinking holding super spreader events was a good idea.

Hopefully once Biden and the Democrats can get some actual stimulus and the vaccine is deployed wide enough we can get back to normal.

Stay safe.
you quoted too many for me to respond to each well.

I'll attempt. How are hospitals in my area capacity wise? Empty.

I see very few businesses making a big deal about wearing a mask. Everyone is finished with it due to the Governor's marching in BLM protests during lockdown and her husband trying to get her boat and dock put in when she banned boating in the state. She has her vacation home right up here where I live. She is hated in the Northern 2/3rds of Michigan.

My location is a resort area. People broke the lockdown from downstate, including Mr Governor's Husband to come to their vacation homes. They came into our small communities and aren't wearing masks. All my neighbors are downstaters who came to their vacation homes on the island I live on, none wear a mask or social distance at all. I know of no one who has had it outside of those in the Detroit area. I have rarely worn a mask as the masks available are basically worthless.

I attended Biological, Chemical, Nuclear warfare training in the military. I spent two decades transporting individuals with contagious diseases in conjunction with my employment in the USDOJ. A simple cloth mask most people wear offers no real protection. Those simple surgical masks give minimal protection against airborne diseases. They don't seal correctly to block transmission.

n95 masks provide protection but you must be properly fitted, clean shaven. I brought this up to doctors at my local medical center and they couldn't refute it at all. They basically said the mask wearing was to assist in compliance of the populace to social distance and not gather in groups.

When working in the DOJ I was on a transport/security team working frequently in conjunction with US Marshals and Border Patrol in transporting illegal aliens in a Southern border region who were diagnosed with contagious diseases or the bacteria involved disease of Tuberculosis which can be transmitted via coughing when droplets are expelled. I transported them in a van to hospitals where I worked overtime for weeks at a time. I never came back positive for exposure to TB.
 

doug58

Well-Known Member
And how much do you think getting all those old gas guzzlers off the road helped get our nation to be far less reliant on the middle east's oil?

Also helped metro Detroit buisinesses immensely. All those regular hard working Americans that relied on the auto industry and car dealerships for their livelihoods jobs were saved from that program.



Are you joking? I actually saw my neighborhoods housing prices go from about $170k to the neighbor on one side of my home getting bought up by a investor for $32k, and the other side of my house go for $26k during the Great Recession.

Those programs helped give people the ability to buy a home and helped stabalize prices from those devastating lows for all the hard working people who lost their jobs due to the Republican led economic collapse.
I sold my house in Arizona during the recession of 2009, in October at over $60,000 more than what I bought it for. My current house is apparently worth much more than I paid for it. Tiny cabin down the road on a tiny 60 foot lake lot sold in October for $200,000 in three days. They had listed it for $180,000.

I live on the same lake but on an island. I have 175 foot of frontage, a larger yard, a pole barn. I over paid at $168,000. I have had two different individuals approach me to convince me to sell even though I don't have my place for sale. Neighbors tell me I can get $250,000 for my current house.

Real estate is just like the stock market. You buy low and don't sell until the market is right. You don't overpay if you what to profit. You hold until the market is right.

I purchased my current place by putting $87,000 cash down, financing the remainder on a 15 year loan and paying it off in 10 years. Never take out a second mortgage or refinancing to get cash to buy things that aren't necessary. Live within your means.

Sounds like your neighbors failed in all of that. I currently have my mortgage paid ahead to June of 2021.

People I worked with told me it was stupid to pay my mortgage ahead. Come lockdown, I was paid ahead 1 year in advance. I didn't need to make mortgage payments for one year. I spent six months making principal only payments paying down the actual principal.

The one individual that was most vocal in condemning me at work for paying my mortgage a year ahead has filed bankruptcy twice that I know of.

Gas guzzlers off the road resulted in little if any saving of oil. People took them money from trading in worn out vehicles, often small 1990's econo cars and purchased SUV's

Same happened when they gave tax credits which amounted to up to 50% tax credit years before for alternative fuel vehicles.

People bought propane compatible flex vehicle, big pickups were the thing in Arizona. They had a propane tank and a gas tank, switchable. People bought them, got big tax credits funding the purchase, then just used gasoline.

As far as electric vehicles, in Arizona they were getting both federal and state tax credits that allowed people to go out and buy over built electric road legal golf cart type vehicles and get every dime back in tax credits. Complete scam.
 
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hanimmal

Well-Known Member
you quoted too many for me to respond to each well.

I'll attempt.
I try to not treat everyone like sock puppet trolls. If I offend, just let me know that was the line, and I will take it down a notch.

How are hospitals in my area capacity wise? Empty.
Michigan ICU beds are currently 75% full statewide. I live in metro Detroit area and can say that it is a different story down here.


I see very few businesses making a big deal about wearing a mask. Everyone is finished with it due to the Governor's marching in BLM protests during lockdown and her husband trying to get her boat and dock put in when she banned boating in the state. She has her vacation home right up here where I live. She is hated in the Northern 2/3rds of Michigan.
People were protesting it before the protests even started up man.

Screen Shot 2021-01-09 at 12.22.56 PM.png

Did you know that the Russian military was pushing propaganda about the Virus from the start?
https://www.rollitup.org/t/ap-russian-military-behind-spread-of-coronavirus-disinformation.1025725/

People can be spammed enough information in a bad way to radicalize against anything. Even our governor. I am not sure what you are talking about with her boats, or banning of it that is not something I heard before. If you think it is a big deal I am happy to see why if you point me in the right direction to what bothered you.

My location is a resort area. People broke the lockdown from downstate, including Mr Governor's Husband to come to their vacation homes. They came into our small communities and aren't wearing masks. All my neighbors are downstaters who came to their vacation homes on the island I live on, none wear a mask or social distance at all. I know of no one who has had it outside of those in the Detroit area. I have rarely worn a mask as the masks available are basically worthless.
People are acting like assholes about this virus. I know my sister went to the UP along with some other family and one told me (early on) that they were not going to wear a mask. I tried to explain to them that it is for real, but I know it didn't matter to them.

And the regular medical cloth masks are helpful at reducing the direct spray of a majority of the spray that comes from the mouth. They are not basically worthless.

I attended Biological, Chemical, Nuclear warfare training in the military. I spent two decades transporting individuals with contagious diseases in conjunction with my employment in the USDOJ. A simple cloth mask most people wear offers no real protection. Those simple surgical masks give minimal protection against airborne diseases. They don't seal correctly to block transmission.

n95 masks provide protection but you must be properly fitted, clean shaven. I brought this up to doctors at my local medical center and they couldn't refute it at all. They basically said the mask wearing was to assist in compliance of the populace to social distance and not gather in groups.

When working in the DOJ I was on a transport/security team working frequently in conjunction with US Marshals and Border Patrol in transporting illegal aliens in a Southern border region who were diagnosed with contagious diseases or the bacteria involved disease of Tuberculosis which can be transmitted via coughing when droplets are expelled. I transported them in a van to hospitals where I worked overtime for weeks at a time. I never came back positive for exposure to TB.
If you are traveling longterm with someone in a enclosed area, sure the virus is going to fill up the room and people will breath that shit in. No question.

Also no question to n-95 being fitted is needed in that case.

But just walking around it is going to reduce the spread of your spray, and reduce the amount that you breath in of others. Is it perfect? No of course not, but it is helpful at reducing the unimpeded spray.

The thing is what you are saying is technically correct, but it is incomplete and you are using it to say that the masks being basically worthless is not the case.
 

doug58

Well-Known Member
In response to Biden saying he would not tax people making less than $400,000. How does that align with his promises to repeal all Trump passed tax reductions that were giving $2,000 in tax reduction to all taxpayers and the increase tax credits for the child tax credit? All those poor people who don't pay any federal income taxes due to the child tax credit will start paying higher taxes. Under Trump standard deductions were raised for everyone. Biden vowed to rescind those deductions.

I worked with a guy in Arizona, he was in a different department and different job. Made more than I did but had five or six children. He paid no federal income taxes as all his children qualified for as deductions in his income taxes plus the child tax credit.

I received nothing other than the standard deduction being single with no children. Why should I be taxed to death for not having children, while someone that pushes out another child every year or two gets off with getting more back in a tax refund than they paid in?

Basically, taking money out of every single childess person's pocket because they don't practice birth control.
 
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hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I sold my house in Arizona during the recession of 2009, in October at over $60,000 more than what I bought it for.
Putting aside that this could just mean you had bought that house for a very low price or lived there for a long time and accrued a lot of increase in your property value over that time.

I bet the people that bought it from you if the above is not the case got screwed when the value collapsed leaving them with the bag.



I sold my house in Arizona during the recession of 2009, in October at over $60,000 more than what I bought it for. My current house is apparently worth much more than I paid for it. Tiny cabin down the road on a tiny 60 foot lake lot sold in October for $200,000 in three days. They had listed it for $180,000.

I live on the same lake but on an island. I have 175 foot of frontage, a larger yard, a pole barn. I over paid at $168,000. I have had two different individuals approach me to convince me to sell even though I don't have my place for sale. Neighbors tell me I can get $250,000 for my current house.

Real estate is just like the stock market. You buy low and don't sell until the market is right. You don't overpay if you what to profit. You hold until the market is right.

I purchased my current place by putting $87,000 cash down, financing the remainder on a 15 year loan and paying it off in 10 years. Never take out a second mortgage or refinancing to get cash to buy things that aren't necessary. Live within your means.

Sounds like your neighbors failed in all of that. I currently have my mortgage paid ahead to June of 2021.

People I worked with told me it was stupid to pay my mortgage ahead. Come lockdown, I was paid ahead 1 year in advance. I didn't need to make mortgage payments for one year. I spent six months making principal only payments paying down the actual principal.

The one individual that was most vocal in condemning me at work for paying my mortgage a year ahead has filed bankruptcy twice that I know of.

My current house is apparently worth much more than I paid for it. Tiny cabin down the road on a tiny 60 foot lake lot sold in October for $200,000 in three days. They had listed it for $180,000.

I live on the same lake but on an island. I have 175 foot of frontage, a larger yard, a pole barn. I over paid at $168,000. I have had two different individuals approach me to convince me to sell even though I don't have my place for sale. Neighbors tell me I can get $250,000 for my current house.
I remember all the house flipping tv shows just prior to the last recession.

Ive heard a lot of people are trying to buy homes right now. If the economy doesn't completely collapse it is great, if it does we could be looking at the same thing as in 2009-2011. When houses would sit for a year or so before the people would have to leave after they stopped paying their mortgages.

I bet your place is beautiful man, congrats!

Real estate is just like the stock market. You buy low and don't sell until the market is right. You don't overpay if you what to profit. You hold until the market is right.

I purchased my current place by putting $87,000 cash down, financing the remainder on a 15 year loan and paying it off in 10 years. Never take out a second mortgage or refinancing to get cash to buy things that aren't necessary.
I would consider thinking about real estate like a game of musical chairs. But the person who is left with the chair when the music stops is the one that loses the ability to sell the house again.

Nice job on the rest. Did you rent prior to that? That is a big nut to lay down that a lot of people won't be able to save up for years/decades if they are starting from scratch.

Live within your means. Sounds like your neighbors failed in all of that.
Kind of shitty assumption. They actually lived well within their means. But unfortunately the company that they both worked for collapsed in 2009 and they were unable to recover and had to make a tough choice.


I currently have my mortgage paid ahead to June of 2021.
Nice work.

People I worked with told me it was stupid to pay my mortgage ahead. Come lockdown, I was paid ahead 1 year in advance. I didn't need to make mortgage payments for one year. I spent six months making principal only payments paying down the actual principal.

The one individual that was most vocal in condemning me at work for paying my mortgage a year ahead has filed bankruptcy twice that I know of.
Working hard and getting ahead and saving money is never a bad idea man.

But it really depends on the interest rates you are paying on your mortgage and if you could have earned more in say a tax free government bond that would have given you more money in return when it matures than you lose in interest rates (for example). You might have made a bit more return on your hard work.

But I wouldn't call you stupid for just making sure it was in your mortgage at all. It is a good way to make sure your land is always going to be what you work first to keep.

In response to Biden saying he would not tax people making less than $400,000. How does that align with his promises to repeal all Trump passed tax reductions that were giving $2,000 in tax reduction to all taxpayers and the increase tax credits for the child tax credit? All those poor people who don't pay any federal income taxes due to the child tax credit will start paying higher taxes.
Unlike the stupidity of the Trump and the Republicans trying to 'repeal and replace' Obamacare then pretend like they would pass something far better, they could amend the legislation to repeal the tax breaks for people making over $400k.

I worked with a guy in Arizona, he was in a different department and different job. Made more than I did but had five or six children. He paid no federal income taxes as all his children qualified for as deductions in his income taxes plus the child tax credit.
I am just going to take your word for this. I would say is he not really making that much money and had a wife/bunch of kids to support so their federal taxes were pushing them below the poverty line?

I know it might seem unfair, but the thing I would try to understand is those kids will end up paying far more in taxes on average than their family used while they were growing up.

I received nothing other than the standard deduction being single with no children. Why should I be taxed to death for not having children, while someone that pushes out another child every year or two gets off with getting more back in a tax refund than they paid in?

Basically, taking money out of every single childess person's pocket because they don't practice birth control.
Because those kids will one day be the ones paying the taxes that pay for the infrastructure that you use to survive while taking care of you when you need it?
 

doug58

Well-Known Member
Biden repeatedly stated that taxes would not be raised on families making less than $400k a year.




You do know there is a pandemic going on right? This has devastated the service economy because we have been acting like we have not understood virus/bacteria and the like for decades.

We need to figure out how to do things differently as a society. You think we would have learned with 60,000 people dying of a flu each year to not breath in each other's bodily fluids by now, but 350k+ dying from this virus unfotuntly is showing us the very real dangers of this.



They can't unless they have a lot of wealth backing them up. That is why Trump and the Republican's lack of a response has been so devastating. Our economy is fucked. We needed a strong federal response to this disaster, but Trump and the Republicans let it crumble (just like they did in 2008 right before Obama took office).

It sucks that they did this to us again.

But since they are legislating for only one demographic who has enough money to snatch up all those struggling loans on the cheap, economic collapses are really in their favor.



Again, pandemic.

How are your hospital's bed capacity doing? Do you think having a bunch of random people who are under the impression it is safe to travel coming into your community would change that?


Pandemics suck. I really wish that people would have not been brainwashed into thinking holding super spreader events was a good idea.

Hopefully once Biden and the Democrats can get some actual stimulus and the vaccine is deployed wide enough we can get back to normal.

Stay safe.
Like I said previously, your posts are too long for me to sensibly respond to each point on an Android tablet that acts up with large text quotes. You had a chart posted with ICU numbers.

Look at many of the Northern Michigan hospitals listed. Their covid numbers in ICU are ZERO. The people in those that have anyone in ICU are likely heart attacks or cancer patients who were denied surgeries during Whitmer's insane lockdown. I was diagnosed with diabetes just a week before the lockdowns. I was denied medication and medical care for three months when my follow up appointments were cancelled when the clinic first shut down then had to reschedule all patients. Due to being diagnosed with diabetes, I needed to see my eye doctor to check if diabetes was affecting my vision. They refused to schedule an appointment all year, I am finally getting in next week. 10 months later. My vision seems to be failing.

All dental offices were shut down. I had all dental appointments cancelled.

No doubt Detroit areas have higher infection rates with all those BLM protests of super spreaders. Whitmer was right there with them.

From the chart you had posted before my battery died, Otsego county hospital. Zero covid cases in ICU.

The $87,000 came from the sale of my Arizona home. I had almost paid that home off also. I had it built new in 1995 for $96,000, put $20,000 down. 15 year mortgage after doing no cost refi from a 30 year mortgage. Had it almost paid off when I sold. Sold for $156,000 at the market low. Took the profits and put on my lake cabin in Michigan on a smaller Island. Not a great house but I bought it as I needed a temporary home and figured I would gamble on it going up in price. I could make a nice profit if I could sell today after nine years from purchase. I'm currently involved in litigation concerning an estate involving over $1,000,000 in stocks and cash which I am supposed to inherit over $250,000 from.

Other than mortgages I never take out loans. The last vehicle I bought was new off the lot in 2002, I still drive it. It cost $26,000 new, I paid it off in one year. I don't like owing money.

I have over $250,000 in a Vanguard account. I have a pension from the government, I retired on my 50th birthday and start collecting Social Security with my first check this month which is around $1,500 a month. My pension is around $2,400 a month before I get Social Security but my actual pension gets cut by about $650 a month once SS starts.

That gives me something like $48,000 a year in retirement pay starting this month. Once the estate is settled I will get additional income from my Vanguard investments, currently I could take out $10,000 a year for my life likely. Then from the stocks I get from the estate when settled another $10,000 a year. Around $68,000 a year not working again.

I had mandatory retirement at 57 due to a hazardous government job where life expectancy was low. I didn't expect to live to 62 as few of my co-workers made it that long. Many dying just before or after retirement age. None who worked until 57 to 62.
 
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hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Like I said previously, your posts are too long for me to sensibly respond to each point on an Android tablet that acts up with large text quotes. You had a chart posted with ICU numbers.

Look at many of the Northern Michigan hospitals listed.
Im not familiar with the hospital names, so am not sure which are where. There are very few with 0% ICU beds used. I know for a fact down here and in mid Michigan it is pretty dicey.

The people in those that have anyone in ICU are likely heart attacks or cancer patients who were denied surgeries during Whitmer's insane lockdown.
That is wrong. I know someone who has been getting cancer treatments during the entirety of the pandemic.

Shit like knee replacements and other elective surgeries are put on hold.

I was diagnosed with diabetes just a week before the lockdowns. I was denied medication and medical care for three months when my follow up appointments were cancelled when the clinic first shut down then had to reschedule all patients.
That sucks about your diagnosis. And healthcare system closed down. You don't have local pharmacies that you could have gotten your medication at?

Due to being diagnosed with diabetes, I needed to see my eye doctor to check if diabetes was affecting my vision. They refused to schedule an appointment all year, I am finally getting in next week. 10 months later. My vision seems to be failing.
Sorry about your sight. That is pretty scary stuff.

All dental offices were shut down. I had all dental appointments cancelled.
My dentist was actually calling me to try to get my reschedule, but there is no way in hell I want a couple people breathing right into my face during a pandemic.

No doubt Detroit areas have higher infection rates with all those BLM protests of super spreaders. Whitmer was right there with them.
You are really triggered by the social justice protests over the summer. You flat out ignored the fact that Russia was pushing corona virus propaganda, are you going to also ignore that they have been pushing propaganda aimed at getting people like yourself to feel the way you seem to about 'BLM'?

https://www.rollitup.org/t/conservatives-programed-to-trigger-at-words-black-lives-matter-by-russian-trolls.1034523/




From the chart you had posted before my battery died, Otsego county hospital. Zero covid cases in ICU.
link to hospital webpage.Screen Shot 2021-01-09 at 1.40.41 PM.png

They seem pretty concerned about the virus that is spreading in your area. I would pay attention to what the medical professionals in your area are saying. Stay safe.
 
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doug58

Well-Known Member
You live in Michigan and never heard about Whitmer and her husband's boat and dock debacle during the lockdown? It was reported everywhere.

Site is not allowing link to CNN article which explains it pretty well. Won't allow NYT link either.


Michigan Governor Says Husband’s Request Was ‘Failed Attempt at Humor’
A business owner said Marc Mallory had pointed out that he was married to Gov. Gretchen Whitmer while asking if the company could move his boat sooner.




Published May 26, 2020
Updated Oct. 8, 2020
Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan said on Tuesday that her husband was joking when he tried to use his relationship with her to get their boat moved into the water before Memorial Day weekend.

FROM THE MAGAZINEWhitmer: A Governor on Her Own, With Everything at Stake
Some conservatives have criticized Ms. Whitmer, a Democrat, for coronavirus-related restrictions that they considered too severe. She ordered residents in April not to travel to vacation homes within the state but has since dropped that rule.

“My husband made a failed attempt at humor last week when checking in with a small business that helps with our boat and dock up north,” Ms. Whitmer said at a news conference.

“Knowing it wouldn’t make a difference,” she said, “he jokingly asked if marrying — if being married to me might move him up in the queue.”

Ms. Whitmer said that her husband, Marc Mallory, regretted the move and that she wished it had not happened. She said that “he thought it might get a laugh. It didn’t.”

Ms. Whitmer’s comments about her husband came after The Detroit News reported on Mr. Mallory’s request, which NorthShore Dock mentioned in Facebook posts that are no longer public.

“There was a gentleman on hold who wanted his boat in the water before the weekend,” wrote Tad Dowker, the business’s owner, according to The News. “Being Memorial weekend and the fact that we started working three weeks late means there is no chance this is going to happen.

“Well our office personnel had explained this to the man and he replied, ‘I am the husband to the governor, will this make a difference?’”

The company said in a statement that Mr. Mallory was respectful and understanding when it said it could not schedule the installation early, according to The News.

Ms. Whitmer said she did not go to her family’s second home in northern Michigan over Memorial Day weekend. She said her husband went and stayed one or two nights.

“My husband did go to our place in Antrim County and raked some leaves and came home,” she said. “We did not all pile in the car to go enjoy our second home, although that would have been permitted if we had.”

It didn't fly in Northern Michigan where she destroyed the tourist economy. Two thirds of the state depends on tourism during Spring and Summer, then again during deer season starting on November 15th. She increased lockdowns again on November 15th, once again attacking the Northern Michigan economy at the last chance to keep businesses related to tourism afloat.
 

Herb & Suds

Well-Known Member
In response to Biden saying he would not tax people making less than $400,000. How does that align with his promises to repeal all Trump passed tax reductions that were giving $2,000 in tax reduction to all taxpayers and the increase tax credits for the child tax credit? All those poor people who don't pay any federal income taxes due to the child tax credit will start paying higher taxes. Under Trump standard deductions were raised for everyone. Biden vowed to rescind those deductions.

I worked with a guy in Arizona, he was in a different department and different job. Made more than I did but had five or six children. He paid no federal income taxes as all his children qualified for as deductions in his income taxes plus the child tax credit.

I received nothing other than the standard deduction being single with no children. Why should I be taxed to death for not having children, while someone that pushes out another child every year or two gets off with getting more back in a tax refund than they paid in?

Basically, taking money out of every single childess person's pocket because they don't practice birth control.
Biden isn't repealing them they are expiring just like the Crooked right planned
Except the Tax breaks for corporations remain
Thanks to Trumpy bear
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
You live in Michigan and never heard about Whitmer and her husband's boat and dock debacle during the lockdown? It was reported everywhere.
I heard a lot of noise, but could care less about gossip like this.

So he wanted to move a boat before the lockdown is a bad thing? Im sure he was probably a dick if they said he was 'just joking', I know I usually am being one when I say that.

Out of everything I posted though this is what you focus on?

It didn't fly in Northern Michigan where she destroyed the tourist economy. Two thirds of the state depends on tourism during Spring and Summer, then again during deer season starting on November 15th. She increased lockdowns again on November 15th, once again attacking the Northern Michigan economy at the last chance to keep businesses related to tourism afloat.
So your upset that the Covid-virus carrying masses are not flooding the few stores/gas stations/ hotels/ restaurants (what am I missing?) during a pandemic?

Also I checked. It looks like everything is still allowed man, I am guessing the pandemic is causing people to not want to travel like before because it is so dangerous.

https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-350-79137_79770_98926---,00.html
Biden isn't repealing them they are expiring just like the Crooked right planned
Except the Tax breaks for corporations remain
Thanks to Trumpy bear
I forgot about that thank you. It was for the corporations that the tax cut was permanent.
 

doug58

Well-Known Member
I don't follow Russian propaganda and I haven't watched any news in months. I watch METV and stream movies on a Smart TV as unlimited T-Mobile Home cellular internet just became available on the island I live on. Satellite was the only thing previously available. The American media is now just a Socialist propaganda system.

As far as the chart you posted you don't need to know the hospital names. The column labeled Covid cases in ICU. Most with ZERO covid cases are in Northern Michigan, as in those areas from above Lansing North to the bridge and the UP.

I'm triggered by BLM protests? They were burning and rioting in cities all year with their ANTIFA allies.

I posted somewhere earlier this week how many businesses and building were burned in Portland, Minneapolis and Kenosha. The numbers were in the hundreds. In just three cities.

BLM was founded by Communist, Socialist and Marxist members. ANTIFA was founded in Europe by Marxists.

The Black Lives Matters group fundraising is controlled by Susan Rosenberg. A founding member of the Weather Underground. I personally knew her for two years on a near daily basis after her conviction on domestic terror charges. She was involved in the murder of three police officers but escaped prosecution for that individual crime. She was a scary individual set on the overthrow of America. Her cellmate was another terrorist and member of the FALN who bombed the US Capitol and government buildings. Murdered police officers in the US. Both received pardons from Clinton.

Rosenberg was caught with hundreds of pounds of stolen explosives. Her sentence was commuted to time served by President Bill Clinton on January 20, 2001, his final day in office.
After living as a fugitive for two years, Rosenberg was arrested in 1984 while in possession of a large cache of explosives and firearms. She had also been sought as an accomplice in the 1979 prison escape of Assata Shakur and in the 1981 Brink's robbery that resulted in the deaths of two police and a guard, although she was never charged in either case.

Alejandrina Torres (born June 18, 1939) is a Puerto Rican woman whose trial as a member and role in Fuerzas Armadas de Liberación Nacional (FALN) resulted in her conviction and sentencing of 35 years for seditious conspiracy. Torres was linked to FALN, which claimed responsibility for 100 bombings and six deaths. Her sentence was commuted by President Bill Clinton in 1999.

I sat in a small detention facility with these two terrorists for close to two year, 1986 to 1988.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
You live in Michigan and never heard about Whitmer and her husband's boat and dock debacle during the lockdown? It was reported everywhere.

Site is not allowing link to CNN article which explains it pretty well. Won't allow NYT link either.


Michigan Governor Says Husband’s Request Was ‘Failed Attempt at Humor’
A business owner said Marc Mallory had pointed out that he was married to Gov. Gretchen Whitmer while asking if the company could move his boat sooner.




Published May 26, 2020
Updated Oct. 8, 2020
Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan said on Tuesday that her husband was joking when he tried to use his relationship with her to get their boat moved into the water before Memorial Day weekend.

FROM THE MAGAZINEWhitmer: A Governor on Her Own, With Everything at Stake
Some conservatives have criticized Ms. Whitmer, a Democrat, for coronavirus-related restrictions that they considered too severe. She ordered residents in April not to travel to vacation homes within the state but has since dropped that rule.

“My husband made a failed attempt at humor last week when checking in with a small business that helps with our boat and dock up north,” Ms. Whitmer said at a news conference.

“Knowing it wouldn’t make a difference,” she said, “he jokingly asked if marrying — if being married to me might move him up in the queue.”

Ms. Whitmer said that her husband, Marc Mallory, regretted the move and that she wished it had not happened. She said that “he thought it might get a laugh. It didn’t.”

Ms. Whitmer’s comments about her husband came after The Detroit News reported on Mr. Mallory’s request, which NorthShore Dock mentioned in Facebook posts that are no longer public.

“There was a gentleman on hold who wanted his boat in the water before the weekend,” wrote Tad Dowker, the business’s owner, according to The News. “Being Memorial weekend and the fact that we started working three weeks late means there is no chance this is going to happen.

“Well our office personnel had explained this to the man and he replied, ‘I am the husband to the governor, will this make a difference?’”

The company said in a statement that Mr. Mallory was respectful and understanding when it said it could not schedule the installation early, according to The News.

Ms. Whitmer said she did not go to her family’s second home in northern Michigan over Memorial Day weekend. She said her husband went and stayed one or two nights.

“My husband did go to our place in Antrim County and raked some leaves and came home,” she said. “We did not all pile in the car to go enjoy our second home, although that would have been permitted if we had.”

It didn't fly in Northern Michigan where she destroyed the tourist economy. Two thirds of the state depends on tourism during Spring and Summer, then again during deer season starting on November 15th. She increased lockdowns again on November 15th, once again attacking the Northern Michigan economy at the last chance to keep businesses related to tourism afloat.
BTW, just wanted to add.

Notice her husband did not seem to have threatened this boat dock worker by saying what they were doing was criminal if he didn't get his way.


Unlike Dear Leader.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I don't follow Russian propaganda and I haven't watched any news in months. I watch METV and stream movies on a Smart TV as unlimited T-Mobile Home cellular internet just became available on the island I live on. Satellite was the only thing previously available. The American media is now just a Socialist propaganda system.

As far as the chart you posted you don't need to know the hospital names. The column labeled Covid cases in ICU. Most with ZERO covid cases are in Northern Michigan, as in those areas from above Lansing North to the bridge and the UP.
Man I showed you the information that the hospital system you mentioned had to say, Covid cases are increasing 8x.

And I have no idea what you mean by 'American media', since that can mean damn near anything and everything.
BLM was founded by Communist, Socialist and Marxist members. ANTIFA was founded in Europe by Marxists.
So you don't follow Russian propaganda, but you believe the same nonsense that they push.

I would question wherever it is that you are seeing this information if I was you.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/conservatives-programed-to-trigger-at-words-black-lives-matter-by-russian-trolls.1034523/

The Black Lives Matters group fundraising is controlled by Susan Rosenberg. A founding member of the Weather Underground. I personally knew her for two years on a near daily basis after her conviction on domestic terror charges. She was involved in the murder of three police officers but escaped prosecution for that individual crime. She was a scary individual set on the overthrow of America. Her cellmate was another terrorist and member of the FALN who bombed the US Capitol and government buildings. Murdered police officers in the US. Both received pardons from Clinton.

Rosenberg was caught with hundreds of pounds of stolen explosives. Her sentence was commuted to time served by President Bill Clinton on January 20, 2001, his final day in office.
After living as a fugitive for two years, Rosenberg was arrested in 1984 while in possession of a large cache of explosives and firearms. She had also been sought as an accomplice in the 1979 prison escape of Assata Shakur and in the 1981 Brink's robbery that resulted in the deaths of two police and a guard, although she was never charged in either case.

Alejandrina Torres (born June 18, 1939) is a Puerto Rican woman whose trial as a member and role in Fuerzas Armadas de Liberación Nacional (FALN) resulted in her conviction and sentencing of 35 years for seditious conspiracy. Torres was linked to FALN, which claimed responsibility for 100 bombings and six deaths. Her sentence was commuted by President Bill Clinton in 1999.

I sat in a small detention facility with these two terrorists for close to two year, 1986 to 1988.
None of this has anything to do with the protests over the summer outside of the spamming of the name over and over again online that was used to program the branding of the name the Russian military wanted pushed to be used to radicalize people against the name.
 

doug58

Well-Known Member
You don't listen to gossip? I posted the article with Whitmer's own admission that her husband did what he did, right from NYT and Detroit news.

You posted that crap from the DNR and the dates? Oct. She ordered no motorized boats were to operate in Michigan waters period during the Spring fishing season openers in March and April. Not October.

As for hunting season. No inside dining in restaurants during frigging deer season or the entire Summer, when those business owners make their income for the year. Many Northern Michigan businesses are only open for business from March to November. It is when they make the money they need to survive. She locked them down during the months they employ the populace of the region and then shut down from December until March the next year when tourism stops.

This year, they never opened at all. The state campground in my town never opened period. 500 campground sites. Figure 2,000 campers average within a town with a population of less than 1,000 residents. Then all the down state individuals with second homes in the area. The village is dying this year due to no campground open. During her travel lockdown all those Summer Homes remained empty the entire Summer with people afraid to travel because many are old retired people who spend the entire Summer here, many stayed away.

Those Fisher charter boat captains were denied the ability to make a living as they were ordered to not put their boats in the water in the Spring. That ended with the Governor's Husband being outed trying to get her boat and dock put in at Birch lake in Northern Michigan.
 

doug58

Well-Known Member
You showed me a chart about ICU cases, I saw it and I replied go check that chart again and see all the zero cases of covid in ICU units in Northern Michigan right on the chart you posted. The fact is, there are few COVID cases in ICU units in Northern Michigan where I live. I replied to you but you seem to want to deny the evidence you yourself posted.

If a hospital admits a person they diagnosed with Covid they hit the jackpot in government funding. That's why they diagnosed everything as Covid. Over $50,000 government funding with each Covid patient.

Once again, I live no where near Detroit. I live in Northern Michigan where there is little industry to employ anyone. The economy is completely based on tourism, hunting, fishing, hotels, casinos, restaurants and the building trades related to second homes. Whitmer also shut down all construction in the area in the Spring and Summer. Construction based on tourism from downstate second home owners.

Second home owners like my neighbors down the street, Bill Ford and his sister, grandchildren of Henry Ford and Detroit Lion owner?. Second home owners like Lee Ioccoca though I think he might be dead now. Second homeowners like my childhood friend, Mark Hall who started the Monster Energy drink corporation with two South African millionaires (now billionaires with the success of Monster Energy). Mark was a ski bum that worked in Grand Ledge for a family owned beer distributor, was Western sales manager of Arizona sun tea who up and quit and was hired by two South Africans who bought a small soda company Hansen's Natural and Mark was responsible for developing Monster Energy when he became the President of Hansens which became Monster Energy. He went from a ski bum to being worth somewhere over $100,000,000 in just a short time. The two South Africans who bought the small specialty distributorship of an unknown soda became billionaires.

None of these people even appeared in Northern Michigan this year.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
You don't listen to gossip? I posted the article with Whitmer's own admission that her husband did what he did, right from NYT and Detroit news.
The story is gossip, not the source. I could care less that her husband karen'd about waiting for his boat.

You posted that crap from the DNR and the dates? Oct. She ordered no motorized boats were to operate in Michigan waters period during the Spring fishing season openers in March and April. Not October.
I posted the DNR stuff to show that hunting season wasn't cancelled or anything, and that it was people not coming up (because it is a dangerous pandemic we are currently experiencing) was not because of Whitmer.
As for hunting season. No inside dining in restaurants during frigging deer season or the entire Summer, when those business owners make their income for the year. Many Northern Michigan businesses are only open for business from March to November. It is when they make the money they need to survive. She locked them down during the months they employ the populace of the region and then shut down from December until March the next year when tourism stops.
Yeah I know how important hunting season is, and know the enjoyment of a good cup of coffee and nice breakfast after being outside in the cold dark morning.

And I get that it is devastating to the economy and sucks. But I also understand that is a very good reason your hospitals are not currently overwhelmed like they are down here.

You yourself said that all the people you know that had cover are from down here. And they would have brought it up with them and spread them around your towns through those restaurants.

This year, they never opened at all. The state campground in my town never opened period. 500 campground sites. Figure 2,000 campers average within a town with a population of less than 1,000 residents. Then all the down state individuals with second homes in the area. The village is dying this year due to no campground open. During her travel lockdown all those Summer Homes remained empty the entire Summer with people afraid to travel because many are old retired people who spend the entire Summer here, many stayed away.
I read on the state website that campsites were not closed down by the state. Was that a local decision or possibly federal land?

Those were denied the ability to make a living as they were ordered to not put their boats in the water in the Spring. That ended with the Governor's Husband being outed trying to get her boat and dock put in at Birch lake in Northern Michigan.
Similar to restaurants. Sucks, no question. Nobody wants to hurt businesses. I would have liked to have a federal response to help all these people out. It would cost us much less than trying to hospitalize everyone getting sick.

You showed me a chart about ICU cases, I saw it and I replied go check that chart again and see all the zero cases of covid in ICU units in Northern Michigan right on the chart you posted. The fact is, there are few COVID cases in ICU units in Northern Michigan where I live. I replied to you but you seem to want to deny the evidence you yourself posted.

If a hospital admits a person they diagnosed with Covid they hit the jackpot in government funding. That's why they diagnosed everything as Covid. Over $50,000 government funding with each Covid patient.

Once again, I live no where near Detroit. I live in Northern Michigan where there is little industry to employ anyone. The economy is completely based on tourism, hunting, fishing, hotels, casinos, restaurants and the building trades related to second homes. Whitmer also shut down all construction in the area in the Spring and Summer. Construction based on tourism from downstate second home owners.

Second home owners like my neighbors down the street, Bill Ford and his sister, grandchildren of Henry Ford and Detroit Lion owner?. Second home owners like Lee Ioccoca though I think he might be dead now. Second homeowners like my childhood friend, Mark Hall who started the Monster Energy drink corporation with two South African millionaires (now billionaires with the success of Monster Energy). Mark was a ski bum that worked in Grand Ledge for a family owned beer distributor, was Western sales manager of Arizona sun tea who up and quit and was hired by two South Africans who bought a small soda company Hansen's Natural and Mark was responsible for developing Monster Energy when he became the President of Hansens which became Monster Energy. He went from a ski bum to being worth somewhere over $100,000,000 in just a short time. The two South Africans who bought the small specialty distributorship of an unknown soda became billionaires.

None of these people even appeared in Northern Michigan this year.
You should read the warning that the hospitals in the system you mentioned had to say. Cases rising 4x.

I dont disagree that Whitmer had to make some tough calls. It sucks. But it is also why you can sit there and say that you don't have filled up ICU's like we do here. I don't understand why that part is hard for you to see the connection.

I really wish Trump and the Republicans would have helped the economy and led the nation into beating the pandemic so she didn't have to make those tough calls to keep you all safe up there.
 

doug58

Well-Known Member
You say it is Russian propaganda? The founder of BLM has admitted she is a Marxists.

New York Post....In a recently surfaced 2015 interview, one of the three Black Lives Matter co-founders declared that she and another co-founder "are trained Marxists."

Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists” – making clear their movement’s ideological foundation, according to a report.

Cullors, 36, was the protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground domestic terror organization, and spent years absorbing the Marxist-Leninist ideology that shaped her worldview.

“The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,” she said, referring to BLM co-founder Alicia Garza.

“We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk,” Cullors added in the interview with Jared Ball of The Real News Network.

While promoting her book “When They Call You a Terrorist: A Black Lives Matter Memoir” in 2018, Cullors described her introduction to and support for Marxist ideology.


You say Susan Rosenberg, a terrorist that I had daily contact with for two years is not affiliated with Black Lives Matters? She was a former member of the Weather Underground, terrorist.

As of 2020, Rosenberg serves as Vice Chair of the Board of Directors of Thousand Currents, a non-profit foundation that sponsors the fundraising and does administrative work for the Black Lives Matter Global Network, among other clients.

Rosenberg, Weather Underground terrorist. Black lives Matters in charge of fundraising for Black Lives Matters.

Cullors, 36, was the protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground domestic terror organization, and spent years absorbing the Marxist-Leninist ideology that shaped her. BLM founder was connected to the Weather Underground.
 

doug58

Well-Known Member
Hunting season wasn't cancelled, the businesses that cater to hunters, restaurants etc. were denied the ability to open due to the Governor's insane lockdown.

Whitmer extended her insane lockdowns after every protest or court win against her policies. She extended those lockdowns for no reason other than her mad fits that people opposed her actions.

Explain to me how my putting a 14 foot fishing boat into the water with a 9 horsepower engine so I can get off of the island I live on to fish was going to spread Covid 19? Explain that to me, please.

Now explain to me why her order did not cover rowboats, kayaks, canoes or sailboats. Is Covid 19 spread by my small fishing boat with a 9 horsepower engine while that 40 foot sailboat the rich people own is immune from Covid 19 while 10 people are out sailing with there rich Lansing and Detroit residents out drinking Champagne on the weekend?
 

doug58

Well-Known Member
Burt Lake State Park, Indian River Michigan. I drove by it on a weekly basis. New sign was posted and remained throughout Spring and Summer that the STATE Park was not open.

Haakwood rustic campground, State Camping Facility. Opens in the Spring each year as it sits on the Sturgeon River between Wolverine and Indian River. Sturgeon River is a premier trout stream. Didn't open until near end of Summer, sign on gate, closed due to Governor's Covid lockdown orders.
 
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