American Companies That Support China, are you surprised?

[Fogdog]

this is the first post you've ever made that i agree with entirely....i've said exactly the same thing for years....if just using someones product entitles them to access and share every aspect of my life, then fuck them and their product. i go so far as to turn my phone off and put it in my desk drawer. i didn't think they would "bug" me, but i started noticing that every time i started the browser on my phone, it would be showing me things i had been talking about while i had it turned on in my pocket....things i had never searched for before....i went into the root on my computer and disabled cortanna....i can see a violent uprising over this, and i would be happy to join into this pogram....a little butlerian jihad action in facebooks server center would be deeply satisfying. sort my information out of your crushed server racks.....
we really need to go after the "clearing houses" that buy and sell this information...they need to be shut the fuck down...with axes, hammers, and fire

There is no need to do this with violence.

 

[dandyrandy]

What Teaching Ethics in Appalachia Taught Me About Bridging America’s Partisan Divide

There’s a language for talking about hot-button issues. And we’re not learning it.

www.politico.com

 

[Budley Doright]

paying taxes is not a penalty.

In any case, i never said "soak the working classes"

I don't think you raised kids, Roger. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

$230,000 to raise a kid to adult-hood not including college tuition and expenses of pregnancy and childbirth. Half a million for two. Subtract that from your savings. Would you still enough to retire and not need Medicare and social security? If so, then you have done well.

Median family income is $55,000 per year. That's both adults working. So, add in child care to the bills on top of food, etc to sustain a two adult /two children household. Median single person income is $35,000. What median means is "half make more and half make less. So, half of all households make less than $55k/yr. Is it your position that everybody in this country including those who make less than 35,000/yr are morally bankrupt if they reach the age of and don't have at least $400,000 socked away?

There was no way I could save money when I was raising the kids. Child care, taxes, living expenses, then University for both. We were middle class and while that sounds great....... woohoo middle class, we have the highest tax bracket per income, limited access to social programs, and a lack of defined pensions. I made more than my old man but with his defined pension, cheap schooling (then) and two kids that worked to pay their way (as much as possible) he did pretty good. Those days are way long gone now. No, the upper tier of wealthy are not evil, they have been given the ability to earn more and pay less, that is what needs to be fixed. The company makes more because it gives less back.

 

[Budley Doright]

wealth distributes itself...some people are interested in making money, and some people aren't. people who aren't interested in making money end up poor...function follows form...
you're not talking about the distribution of wealth, you're talking about redistributing wealth...whose wealth are you going to be redistributing? why are they giving it to you to redistribute? why are you redistributing it to people who did nothing to earn it?
how about we deal with some of this undeserved sense of entitlement that is so prevalent recently? how about we grind it into the losers living in their parents basements, attics and garages, that they are fucking failures who need to get the fuck off their asses and get jobs, and feed themselves?
i don't see the problem with the acquisition of wealth...if you have the desire and the willingness to work for it, you deserve what you get.
i do see a problem with acquiring wealth through unethical, illegal means. if you lied, cheated, and stole to get wealthy, you don't deserve one penny of it, and should have it taken away from you.
if you don't give to charities, don't donate to causes, don't help feed the homeless, well, that's your decision. no one should make it for you. they didn't earn your money, and didn't give it to you as a gift. don't expect anyone to want to have anything to do with you, to like or respect you, or to ever help you if you're in need....you can buy all the help you need.

Wow man, you seem to be stuck in the 70’s. Some of what you say rings hollow in today’s world and you seem out of touch with the actual struggles families face today. Extended families are becoming the norm, not due to entitlement but to do with the fact there are no jobs available that support housing unles your educated, that Education takes huge amounts of cash and there is no extra for most that are struggling. Your seemingly lumping everyone into what you experienced but those circumstances have changed, you need to see that. Some of your talking points are valid but as I’ve pointed out before, everything has a backstory that plays into the present and you need to open your mind to that, you may find your not so cranky lol.

 

[Budley Doright]

What do you think abt social media outlets like FB refusing to take account for political adds deliberately lying?

Facebook says Trump can lie in his Facebook ads

This is the online version of the Popular Information newsletter.

popular.info

I do not subscribe to Facebook or any of the other, post my life every 5 minutes, social media platforms but is it not up to us, as intelligent individuals, to censor for ourselves, fake news? It’s almost like the grow threads here and having the ability to see what has validity and what not. Or when I hear Trump and just assume everything he spews is bullshit. I also get that fake news was a huge factor in your last election and look at where that led .

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

I think it is more the system of humanity means there is always new people starting out, and since they have the least experience/time (on a level playing field) starting out they are relatively (to people who have more time/experience/skills) 'cheap' labor. And if a resource is 'cheap' someone will figure it out and start supplying it to people who want to buy it.


Because people just starting out are more willing to seek out lower paying jobs that allow them to make some money on a short term basis to pay rent/ get food and what not. So there is always a constant supply. And a constant supply of people looking to spend as little as possible to get something done.


I would be curious if looking back the people that used to be 'drunks' are about the same proportion as those living off others today minus being alcoholics if you figure in people who have issues dealing in society too. Because I really don't know anyone who hasn't had to work at least a little to survive in this world.

i have a ton of issues dealing with s

Wow man, you seem to be stuck in the 70’s. Some of what you say rings hollow in today’s world and you seem out of touch with the actual struggles families face today. Extended families are becoming the norm, not due to entitlement but to do with the fact there are no jobs available that support housing unles your educated, that Education takes huge amounts of cash and there is no extra for most that are struggling. Your seemingly lumping everyone into what you experienced but those circumstances have changed, you need to see that. Some of your talking points are valid but as I’ve pointed out before, everything has a backstory that plays into the present and you need to open your mind to that, you may find your not so cranky lol.

does it occur to people, who employs them? who runs the stores they shop at? who owns the buildings they rent apartments in? people who make money, then use that money to start new businesses, which employ more people, who earn more money....
if you make it unattractive to make money, whose going to do all of these things? the girl down the hall who works temp jobs 4 days a week? the uber driver upstairs? the unemployed guy who walks around pretending to find a job till his unemployment runs out?...
make it unattractive to become wealthy, and people will stop becoming wealthy....and providing jobs, places to shop, and apartments to live in.
then we can all be useless gig workers living on the government handouts that will become necessary to keep people from starving....

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

I think it is more the system of humanity means there is always new people starting out, and since they have the least experience/time (on a level playing field) starting out they are relatively (to people who have more time/experience/skills) 'cheap' labor. And if a resource is 'cheap' someone will figure it out and start supplying it to people who want to buy it.


Because people just starting out are more willing to seek out lower paying jobs that allow them to make some money on a short term basis to pay rent/ get food and what not. So there is always a constant supply. And a constant supply of people looking to spend as little as possible to get something done.


I would be curious if looking back the people that used to be 'drunks' are about the same proportion as those living off others today minus being alcoholics if you figure in people who have issues dealing in society too. Because I really don't know anyone who hasn't had to work at least a little to survive in this world.

i have a ton of issues dealing with s

There is no need to do this with violence.

see how you are? i agree with you and you still have to nitpick...

 

[hanimmal]

the unemployed guy who walks around pretending to find a job till his unemployment runs out?..

At which point they tend to actually find a job and start paying back into the system. People generally pay their way in this world aside from short stints here and there unless something is more serious making it so they can't actually help society enough to make their way.

 

[Budley Doright]

i have a ton of issues dealing with s

does it occur to people, who employs them? who runs the stores they shop at? who owns the buildings they rent apartments in? people who make money, then use that money to start new businesses, which employ more people, who earn more money....
if you make it unattractive to make money, whose going to do all of these things? the girl down the hall who works temp jobs 4 days a week? the uber driver upstairs? the unemployed guy who walks around pretending to find a job till his unemployment runs out?...
make it unattractive to become wealthy, and people will stop becoming wealthy....and providing jobs, places to shop, and apartments to live in.
then we can all be useless gig workers living on the government handouts that will become necessary to keep people from starving....

Where did I say I want it to be unattractive to make money? If debating please debate what I have actually said. My philosophy is work for the lifestyle you would like to maintain and I try not to judge lifestyle. My motto is “its better to have than to want” and I work hard to achieve most of what I want. I get it that there are people that do not try to get ahead versus those that do work extremely hard to get ahead and yes make a better life for themselves. I also think the “American dream” is now extremely hard to achieve in this economy and the children of those struggling to live are at a huge disadvantage to start with. You do seem to equate lack of success with lack of moral fortitude and that is wrong. Again there is a back story for everything.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

At which point they tend to actually find a job and start paying back into the system. People generally pay their way in this world aside from short stints here and there unless something is more serious making it so they can't actually help society enough to make their way.

i don't agree with you...i find more and more useless people coasting through life doing as little as possible to survive. they may have a job, but it won't be full time, it won't pay their bills, they'll have to bum off of someone...
of course there are people with jobs, careers, callings, there always will be. the unemployment numbers right now are very misleading though.
how many of those employed are able to get by on the jobs they have? how many of those jobs are part time, minimum wage, used to be done by high school kids in the afternoon kind of jobs?
i look at our society, and find very little to take comfort in. they keep talking about the social security net failing, and people just ignore it....
and go to their three day a week temp jobs....

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Where did I say I want it to be unattractive to make money? If debating please debate what I have actually said. My philosophy is work for the lifestyle you would like to maintain and I try not to judge lifestyle. My motto is “its better to have than to want” and I work hard to achieve most of what I want. I get it that there are people that do not try to get ahead versus those that do work extremely hard to get ahead and yes make a better life for themselves. I also think the “American dream” is now extremely hard to achieve in this economy and the children of those struggling to live are at a huge disadvantage to start with. You do seem to equate lack of success with lack of moral fortitude and that is wrong. Again there is a back story for everything.

you work hard. most of the people i've ever interacted with do not. they coast by on as little effort as possible. i don't blame them in some cases, they aren't paid or treated very well, and i wouldn't want to expend a lot of effort that i know won't be rewarded.
the redistribution of wealth....how do you propose to redistribute it? that implies that you're taking it from some people, and giving it to others.
why do the people you're taking it from have it to take? in some cases, they were unethical, immoral, and dishonest. in some cases, they worked hard, made good choices, and had good fortune. who do you pick to "redistribute" from? who gets to make that decision? and once you take this wealth from these people, and give it to poorer people, why would the people you took it from bother to ever make any more than they need to get by on? why would they run businesses, that they know will be taken from them and given to people who did nothing to build them? why would they ever work to support people who won't work to support themselves? because that's exactly what the "redistribution" of wealth is...taking from the haves and giving to the have nots....and once you take from the haves...they'll pack their shit up, and move to someplace they can keep what they earn. then there won't be anyone to redistribute from, just a whole country full of have nots....

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

perhaps my problem is with the terminology....i'm all for a society where everyone has equal opportunities, where everyone has the chance to make what they want of their lives. i'm not in favor of oppression, subjugation, the useless prejudices that simply refuse to die a dignified death....
but people are people. a lot of them have a drive to succeed, a lot of them just have to have something to do. and a lot of them are lazy useless pieces of shit.....if you gave them a completely level playing field, some of them would still excel, and some would still fail miserably...would we still be responsible for helping the miserable failures have a good life? aren't they supposed to be the spur to drive others to succeed?

 

[Fogdog]

perhaps my problem is with the terminology....i'm all for a society where everyone has equal opportunities, where everyone has the chance to make what they want of their lives. i'm not in favor of oppression, subjugation, the useless prejudices that simply refuse to die a dignified death....
but people are people. a lot of them have a drive to succeed, a lot of them just have to have something to do. and a lot of them are lazy useless pieces of shit.....if you gave them a completely level playing field, some of them would still excel, and some would still fail miserably...would we still be responsible for helping the miserable failures have a good life? aren't they supposed to be the spur to drive others to succeed?

how about if we focus on equality in opportunity first and worry about the slackers later?

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

how about if we focus on equality in opportunity first and worry about the slackers later?

that's fine, what's the plan? how are we going to achieve this goal? which candidate has a viable plan to get this done?

 

[Budley Doright]

that's fine, what's the plan? how are we going to achieve this goal? which candidate has a viable plan to get this done?

I would think a good place to start would be a discussion about a fully funded education plan for those that want it instead of a tax break for the super rich. Just throwing that out there.

 

[Fogdog]

that's fine, what's the plan? how are we going to achieve this goal? which candidate has a viable plan to get this done?

If you weren't so set on arguing you might have read what I'd like to see us do.

 

[too larry]

while any country is made up of individuals, the government sets the policy...what kind of policy do you think they're going to have for the elderly? what kind of human rights policies are they known for now? do you see them building something like sun city for several million elderly people? or feeding them, once they can't work anymore?

In China the oldest son takes care of the parents in old age. That is why there were so many girl babies killed during the one child period. But with the mass migration to the factory towns, the parents and the kids don't live in the same place as often. Will be a challenge.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

I would think a good place to start would be a discussion about a fully funded education plan for those that want it instead of a tax break for the super rich. Just throwing that out there.

i don't think rich people or large companies should get any kind of tax breaks. you live in America. the tax rate is roughly 15 percent. it should be the same for everyone. always. that's the rent for living in America....

If you weren't so set on arguing you might have read what I'd like to see us do.

maybe the reason i'm so set on arguing is i haven't heard one viable plan to achieve any of this. all i've heard is the same rhetoric i've heard since the 70s, and i don't see anything changing. the government is bad. i agree. rich people are too rich. i don't agree. rich people don't pay their fair share. i totally agree. we should fix this situation. again, i totally agree. now tell me how. how do you make the status quo politicians get off their immovable asses and do something that's not really in their best interest? vote them out? ok, then whose to stop the new people you vote in from being corrupted by the lobbyist? by the already corrupt people still in office? i'm sure no one is running on a platform of more corruption, you can't take their word for anything, so who do you pick?
the whole fucking system needs to be scrapped and thrown the fuck out. rules need to be rewritten in plain easily understood terms, that apply to everyone. government needs to be transparent. i realize there is some need for secrecy, but there should NEVER be a secret big enough to keep it from an oversight committee. i don't think there's any way to fix the sick beast....put it out of our misery and start over....the first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

In China the oldest son takes care of the parents in old age. That is why there were so many girl babies killed during the one child period. But with the mass migration to the factory towns, the parents and the kids don't live in the same place as often. Will be a challenge.

a challenge...i see it more as being an extermination program...China already see's it's citizens as expendable resources. when a resource stops being a resource and becomes a liability, you get rid of it. see how easy it is when you ignore people's humanity and treat them like livestock.
"that cow ain't producing milk anymore."....."well, let's shoot her and make burger out of her."

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

paying taxes is not a penalty.

In any case, i never said "soak the working classes"

I don't think you raised kids, Roger. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

$230,000 to raise a kid to adult-hood not including college tuition and expenses of pregnancy and childbirth. Half a million for two. Subtract that from your savings. Would you still enough to retire and not need Medicare and social security? If so, then you have done well.

Median family income is $55,000 per year. That's both adults working. So, add in child care to the bills on top of food, etc to sustain a two adult /two children household. Median single person income is $35,000. What median means is "half make more and half make less. So, half of all households make less than $55k/yr. Is it your position that everybody in this country including those who make less than 35,000/yr are morally bankrupt if they reach the age of and don't have at least $400,000 socked away?

i have an adult son, but his mother and i broke up years ago, and we don't communicate. i did pay her monthly though, till he turned 18. more than i was required to.
i was one of a pair of fools, anyone is a pair of fools to start a family before you're ready. there are several methods of contraception....pick one and use it till you get your shit at least semi together...wish i would have.
and i do not think someone who doesn't have a load of money is a bum. i've never been interested in the acquisition of wealth myself.
officially, i didn't make a goddamn penny last year. not one. unofficially, i made about 30k....i would happily pay my 15% taxes if they would take it without questions....but i've always managed to pay my bills and feed myself. maybe i'm a little too proud, but i'd rather go hungry a few days than take a handout. every single times i've ever taken any "help" in my life, i've regretted it, almost immediately. people who offer you help want to become involved in your life, want to help you make "better decisions".....want to be condescending sanctimonious fuckface assholes....i'd rather do without and live in a fucking box. so it's kind of hard for me to understand how people can live a life of leeching...off of their parents, their friends, the government, and through the government, everyone who pays taxes....

you want to change the system so that everyone gets fair payment for the work they do. good, totally behind that.
you want to change things so that everyone pays their fair share, and the super rich can't avoid their load of the tax burden. good, great idea.
you want everyone to have equal opportunity, to not be discriminated against because of ethnicity, religious beliefs, sex, or sexual orientation. fine, no problem with that.
you also at least seem to want to change the system to make it impossible for anyone to become rich. not so good an idea. those people are the ones who invent, innovate, create new jobs and new businesses. as long as they're paying their share and aren't using unethical means to achieve their goals, i don't care if they make ALL the fucking money, and use it as toilet paper.
and while they're busy doing that, i'll be playing in my garden and taking a walk in the woods. which are the things i want to do. win/win