UV Suppliment Lighting
- Thread starter DrGreenT420
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Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Sorry I didn't include the length. Im an idiot. 4' is most versatile and more availability is different styles and brands
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
These ones should be available in the U.S..
These is the dimmable version but you should get them as "normal" ballasts too. Or_Gro has ordered them a few month back to make the pureUV's dimmable but that was before we knew that these bulbs have a wrong UVB to A ratio.
Philips, Osram, Tridonic are other quality brands but I can not say which are available and which not.
I would at first search e3ay and am4zon. Often you can find them much cheaper.
My Philips HF regulator is listet with 45 bucks and I've found it on am4zon for 15 bucks new.
Literally all these ballasts are the same. Most T5 are anyway multi bulb ballast. If you find a 24w one its probably also siutable with 39w bulbs and it can probable also be used for different kinds of T5's. Ring bulbs for instance.
These is the dimmable version but you should get them as "normal" ballasts too. Or_Gro has ordered them a few month back to make the pureUV's dimmable but that was before we knew that these bulbs have a wrong UVB to A ratio.
Philips, Osram, Tridonic are other quality brands but I can not say which are available and which not.
I would at first search e3ay and am4zon. Often you can find them much cheaper.
My Philips HF regulator is listet with 45 bucks and I've found it on am4zon for 15 bucks new.
Literally all these ballasts are the same. Most T5 are anyway multi bulb ballast. If you find a 24w one its probably also siutable with 39w bulbs and it can probable also be used for different kinds of T5's. Ring bulbs for instance.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Are all t5 4' bulbs going to be 54? Is the 39w and 13-15w ones I'm seeing just for shorter lengths?
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
So do you just basically have the AgroMax pureuv Bulbs written off as not usable really? Are they just not worth getting no matter what light schedule you use with them?
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
One can use them but they need a huge distance of at least 24-30" and even then you can only use them for 1-2h per day splitted in 4x 10-30min. Plants need UVA too when you treat them with UVB and they need much more UVA than B to not getting cell damage. They have adapted to natural UV levels which can be between 1:4 to 1:20 depending where you care.
1: 4 is outback level or in 2000m height, 20:1 you maybe get in the scottish highlands.
PureUV bulbs have an exact opposite ratio and have 3 times more UVB like A(75:25%) so far from being natural.
I myself know this unfortunately since a few weeks as I have talked with a professional gardener who regularily use UVB/A for different sorts of kitchen herbs like rosemary. They also use T5's and some kind of quarz burner but I've not seen them. He only told me that they are more complicated and need additional UVC filters cause they create UV from A-C.
When you put a rosemary under a reptile bulb it takes around two weeks and you can see the difference with the naked eyes. The leaves get much darker, new leaves also stay a little smaller and the surface gets really shiny because of the higher amounts of oils. They also start to feel sticky and the smell is unbelievable. Rosemary, thyme, basil, and so forth produce all the essential oils and they all profit from UV treatments.
He says, he also tested it with different tomatoes and the lab tests have shown that even the nutrient content has increased. Exspecially vitamins and so. They have found different vitamin/mineral profiles compared to no UV light.
He says, this is one of the reasons why the nutrient content in vegetables has partially gone back by 50% and more. Too many greenhouses and in all of them the UV light is eliminated by glass or plastic material. They develop already UV-permeable hollow panels that let UVA and B light pass through.
Sometimes they only use UVA to bring out more colors and for other species the use both, UVA and B.
His kitchen herbs are only for the locale gastronomy, you can not buy them anywhere else.
He recommended me higher output T5 reptile bulbs because they mimic the sunlight and last at least 1500h(still 80% or the initial output). The spectrum goes "only" down to 295nm which cause less stress but they need more time compared to stronger bulbs to cause the same effect.
If you want more UVB for short treatments get the Solacure bulbs. They are 3 times stronger like 12-14% reptile bulbs but the still have a natural ratio with 5 times more UVA like B. Their spectrum goes down to 280nm which means a smaller dose is neccessary to get the same effect. Nevertheless its the old T12 standard its currently the most efficient UVB bulb "suitable" for growing.
That's the Solacure spectrum.. You see, only a little is exactly 285nm and the amount 280-320nm is at least 4 times less as the area from 320-400nm. Optimal would be 285 and 365nm and a ratio around 1:5..
And thats the Arcadia 12% spectrum compared to natural levels. Remember, the natrual level is measured somewhere in GB.. The higher you go or the closer you come to the equator the more shifts the green line to the left. At the highest levels the natural curve starts just below 280nm because UVC is still filtered by the atmosphere even in 5000m above zero.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Even reptiles need more UVA than B to avoid excess vitamin D3 production like you can read on the left on the 2nd picture.
So UVA seems to have a regulating effect and counteracts against UVB in some wise to prevent the tissue from getten damaged.
So UVA seems to have a regulating effect and counteracts against UVB in some wise to prevent the tissue from getten damaged.
ChiefRunningPhist
Well-Known Member
UVA actually penetrates further into the skin than UVB. UVA they are saying is the initiator of many skin cancers.
https://www.skincancer.org/prevention/uva-and-uvb
UVC doesn't have exponetionally more energy than UVB. It follows the same laws as all EM. Its just the absorption rate of the molecule in question can be greatly increased in the UVB -> UVC -> + region.
This is of water...
Here's one of DNA...
You can see the absoption rates are high in the UVB+ for both water and DNA. I think humans are made up of a bunch of water, and fucking with your DNA is leading to cancer, so I think the big thing is the absorption rate of higher UV WV, the added energy helps increase harm but I think it's the absoprtion rate.
If anyone ever wants a refresher on anything science or math based, I highly recommend Khan Academy. It's a free website with video tutorials that explains it all the way to the graduate level sometimes. Here's one on UV light absorption...
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/organic-chemistry/spectroscopy-jay/uv-vis-spectroscopy/v/uv-vis-spectroscopy
https://www.skincancer.org/prevention/uva-and-uvb
UVC doesn't have exponetionally more energy than UVB. It follows the same laws as all EM. Its just the absorption rate of the molecule in question can be greatly increased in the UVB -> UVC -> + region.
This is of water...
Here's one of DNA...
You can see the absoption rates are high in the UVB+ for both water and DNA. I think humans are made up of a bunch of water, and fucking with your DNA is leading to cancer, so I think the big thing is the absorption rate of higher UV WV, the added energy helps increase harm but I think it's the absoprtion rate.
If anyone ever wants a refresher on anything science or math based, I highly recommend Khan Academy. It's a free website with video tutorials that explains it all the way to the graduate level sometimes. Here's one on UV light absorption...
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/organic-chemistry/spectroscopy-jay/uv-vis-spectroscopy/v/uv-vis-spectroscopy
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
So you're saying that solacure bulbs are the best bulb to use basically?
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Now I'm glad I snagged those T8 ballasts. The spectrum of the t8 bulbs that solacure sells is spot on.
https://www.solacure.com/superb.html
https://www.solacure.com/superb.html
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Great find! Less powerful flowerpower bulbs but almost the same spectrum. Fuck! Since when they have T8 bulbs? Sad you hardly get them here in europe. I find them even better for non professionals cuz its probably pretty hard to really damage the plants with them. Ratio UVA to B is a little lower but its still two times more UVA.
Interesting link, bro! But its almost only for human skin and human skin behaves much different like plants or reptile skins. But even the skin can be adjusted to handle higher UV rates without getting damaged. Think on Afrika's, South and Middle Amerika's or Australia's first nations, they all have a dark skin which is more used to UV like ours. If they move to europe or so they get much more issues with the vitamin D levels in their bodies.
Its aktually pretty strange. You better avoid it but on the other hand your body needs it to stay healthy.
Without all the sourrounding EM waves no life would be possible but that's another thing.
Finally, just when i lost all hope in you. Keep up self reflecting, you can only grow from here on
Just call Kaya in Berlin...
ChiefRunningPhist
Well-Known Member
As far as UVA, or anything for that matter, "in moderation" is what I've always heard. I don't know enough to really say why or what is happening with UVA but just added the quick link to show where I got it from.
I was trying to point out that UVB and UVC are almost identical energy WV, but the reason why people may think they have 100× more energy is due to the absorption rates of different UV WV of different molecules, ie DNA and water or skin...
I showed 2 molecules and at least their UV absorption rates. You can see clearly the increase in absorption from 300nm to 260nm.
Despite the energy being only 15% greater in 260nm compared to 300nm, we see significantly greater harm to our bodies, and maybe this is a reason why people say that UVC is so much more powerful than UVB or any of the wavelengths we use. Even in the worst case scenario, 300nm is only 2.25× more powerful than 680nm. That's it.
Plants are made mostly of water too. They also have DNA. But ya, it depends on the molecular structure (like in that video I linked) on what WV will be absorbed. So some people can produce molecules to block the sun from penetrating too deep and protecting against UV, but alas some can not.
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Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Especially red head people
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Man, I'm so stoked that SolaCure makes t8 bulbs!!!
I sent the request to return the ballasts but just haven't gotten around to it and now I'm SO GLAD I still have them for these "Super-B" T8 SolaCure bulbs
@Randomblame you're so right a out the whole T12 sales gimmick and how they claim it's better for UV.
They have a whole section on their website explaining how they're starting to build a new bulb with T5.
Why would they even fuck with T5 if they've already previously claimed that T12 is superior? Apparently it's because they can Include a BUILT IN reflector in the bulb itself when it's that large of a diameter. They do address that the new t5 cannot have one though, because it is so much thinner of a tube diameter.
I sent the request to return the ballasts but just haven't gotten around to it and now I'm SO GLAD I still have them for these "Super-B" T8 SolaCure bulbs
@Randomblame you're so right a out the whole T12 sales gimmick and how they claim it's better for UV.
They have a whole section on their website explaining how they're starting to build a new bulb with T5.
Why would they even fuck with T5 if they've already previously claimed that T12 is superior? Apparently it's because they can Include a BUILT IN reflector in the bulb itself when it's that large of a diameter. They do address that the new t5 cannot have one though, because it is so much thinner of a tube diameter.
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Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Lol! Why not? Is the reflector too small?
It has the same diameter like the bulb...
If you paint half of the bulb with mirrow paint and leave the other half open you have a 180° reflector built in. Makes no big difference and if they make it 190-200° on the smaller T5 bulb it covers exactly the same area. Its the same like when you say a T5 bulb is too small to cover a 2' wide area. Same nonsense! We talk about 16 or 32mm, do they really think it makes a huge difference if a reflector is 16 or 32mm wide? These bulbs are made to cover a 2' wide area..
It depends on the shape of the reflector not only how wide the reflector is. Best would be a hammered surface structure to get more diffuse distribution cause its a plant light.
But to be honest, 180° is anyway not optimal cause some light would be directly thrown on the walls! 90-120° would be much better but that's impossible when you make a reflector this way. And this goes for both kind of bulbs!
I've also thought about just getting some silver mirrow paint and paint my reptile bulbs backside. But I can get much better distribution when I use a small hammered 3-4" wide wing reflectors for reptile bulbs from e3ay. Something like this costs ~10€ here but you should find them in the U.S. too.
They create a much better distribution and they lower the hotspot in the center directly below the bulb. But the wings are a little too short on the sides for my taste cuz they also allow light angles of 180° when mounted this way. But when you close the gap by hanging it directly on the bulb(there is normally a 10mm wide gap between bulb and reflector because of the holder) it should already be enough.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Lookalike I could justify easily make one from galvanized 10" wide sheathing. But wouldn't be hammered
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
You could grind the reflector surface with sandpaper or sandblasting them to get a more diffuse distribution or you just by one of the cheap stocco reflectors for 400-600w bulbs. Its a hammered alu sheet and you could cut off wide enough pieces to create your own reflectors. That's what I've done with my current light but I've sold it already.
It's one of the pictures of the added holders of the superspreaders I've made to reduce the hotspot below the Agromax bulbs so there is no shape to see but you see the surface. Its just the cheapest reflector I've found in my basement. Only make sure its not glas coated like with adjust-a-wing reflectors. Glas doesn't reflect UVB!
The spearders have btw not helped a lot; these bulbs are simply too strong to use them 12-14" above the tops.
Really sad that Solacure only sells in the U.S. I will wait until they have the T5 bulbs available. Maybe I'll find an EU distributor and if not I'll find another way.
If they have already a new site online it can not take long.
Do you have the link, buddy?