Almost 1/3 of all homicides in my county 2010-16 were police killings

[ttystikk]

Agree, but would replace the word "kids" with the word "sex". Men control sex in the third world, woman don't. Woman aren't even supposed to enjoy it (think female genital mutilation), just comply. Kids are a side effect in many cases, though they are another way to control woman.

Good points, both.

 

[Flowki]

Hooboy. Wall of text.

Hopefully a picture can be worth a thousand words

Reason this out how you like. When women are better educated, they have fewer children. This is a fact and can't really be debated.

http://www.earth-policy.org/data_highlights/2011/highlights13
Female education is especially important. Research consistently shows that women who are empowered through education tend to have fewer children and have them later. If and when they do become mothers, they tend to be healthier and raise healthier children, who then also stay in school longer. They earn more money with which to support their families, and contribute more to their communities’ economic growth. Indeed, educating girls can transform whole communities.

In another article which looks at birth rates in Ethiopia, Ghana and Kenya, they found the same relationship. Women without secondary education had about 6 children. Women with secondary education had between 2 and 3 children.

http://blogs.worldbank.org/health/female-education-and-childbearing-closer-look-data
Female education has a greater impact on age of marriage and delayed fertility than male education. Although fertility falls when both male and female levels of education rise together, there is a large gap between male and female secondary school enrollment in sub-Saharan Africa. Achieving gender parity in educational attainment could thus have a substantial effect on fertility rates.

How many times have I said I don't disagree with the facts around education. You obviously are not reading or comprehending what I am writing. You are forming social ideology from these stats that is flat out wrong.. is the problem. Women need academic education.. as do men. Men need life skills education. Educated women for the fact of being educated are not suddenly going to stop being abused or discriminated against.

Sadly though, If women in third world country's are educated, what next. It's still a third world country. What is stopping a man with no morals or ''gentleman'' skills in a country with next to no policing or equality from manipulating or violently keeping this women down?. If all women were educated how many jobs do you think there is?. If you can refrain from twisting this into me suggesting women might as well not get educated I'd like to read your response.

 

[Flowki]

Pro tip; if it takes more than 3 paragraphs to make your point, there's probably something wrong with your logic.

You assert that an uneducated women has choices. That's out and out bullshit. She does not because she depends on men for her livelihood. If he wants kids- that she's then responsible for raising- that's what happens.

For the third time, pretty much every argument you bring in support of the notion that greater wealth and education does not reduce birthrates is incorrect and does not square with the facts on the ground.

The fact you think something this complex can be summed up in one liners shows you are no longer worth the time.

Ironically ending the convo with you was a one liner.

 

[ttystikk]

The fact you think something this complex can be summed up in one liners shows you are no longer worth the time.

No, it shows that your arguments don't hold water.

 

[Fogdog]

How many times have I said I don't disagree with the facts around education. You obviously are not reading or comprehending what I am writing. You are forming social ideology from these stats that is flat out wrong.. is the problem. Women need academic education.. as do men. Men need life skills education. Educated women for the fact of being educated are not suddenly going to stop being abused or discriminated against.

Sadly though, If women in third world country's are educated, what next. It's still a third world country. What is stopping a man with no morals or ''gentleman'' skills in a country with next to no policing or equality from manipulating or violently keeping this women down?. If all women were educated how many jobs do you think there is?. If you can refrain from twisting this into me suggesting women might as well not get educated I'd like to read your response.

Uh oh

All lives matter or everybody needs education.

And so, the fact that in many countries, most women simply don't have access to secondary and higher education suddenly gets diluted into everybody needs education.

The fact remains that when more women get higher education, the birth rate for those women drops dramatically. This happens in third world countries too. Another point brought up in one of those links that I posted is that higher education exposes people to alternative ideas. Such as no longer accepting a lower position in society to a man. Educating women challenges the status quo in many of the countries where men are favored for education. Educating girls is subversive in those cultures.

In the first paragraph you said secondary or higher education for women (teenage girls and young women actually) is important. Then in the second paragraph you say it doesn't help. I'm not "twisting this into you suggesting women might as well not get educated". I am pointing out the contradiction in your post.

 

[Flowki]

Uh oh

All lives matter or everybody needs education.

And so, the fact that in many countries, most women simply don't have access to secondary and higher education suddenly gets diluted into everybody needs education.

The fact remains that when more women get higher education, the birth rate for those women drops dramatically. This happens in third world countries too. Another point brought up in one of those links that I posted is that higher education exposes people to alternative ideas. Such as no longer accepting a lower position in society to a man. Educating women challenges the status quo in many of the countries where men are favored for education. Educating girls is subversive in those cultures.

You can't break the status quo in a male dominated world unless you ALSO educate those males to understand it is acceptable. If you force give a women a job just to make up equality stats she will be belittled by male workers who are not being challenged on such behavior in third world country's. That type of thing is still prevalent even in our modern civilized society. This is one of the big problems your brushing statement of ''just educate women coz statistics'' does not take into account. What you are also still not taking into account is that educated women does not = all get jobs. No job, what next?. Does she then fall back into relying on a man who has a job who can assert authority over her (not all men ofc) or does she leave the country seeking work?. Maybe she just stays in that country in a state of limbo, a well educated women with no job or man.. sure sounds nice, at least statistically.

In the first paragraph you said secondary or higher education for women (teenage girls and young women actually) is important. Then in the second paragraph you say it doesn't help. I'm not "twisting this into you suggesting women might as well not get educated". I am pointing out the contradiction in your post.

The statement is only a contradiction in the context that you understand it.

The real underlining problem here is that it's a third world country, mostly down to not having or being sucked dry of valuable resources by the west. they have poor infrastructure, hospitals, police, schooling and lack of jobs. Then you have a deep routed cultural tradition that women are the possession of men. I hope from that you can see why educating women will improve the statistics for those that are lucky but is a far stretch from solving the over all problem.

It's almost a perfect comparison to when African Americans suffered slavery. If only they were educated they could seek out work and break away. As you should well know that education counts for little when the majority of people holding the keys and job applications did not see them as equal. The door was eventually broken down sure.. but the racism is still deeply routed, on both sides. This is in a well established country that has good schooling infrastructure to surely educate this narrow minded shit out of people. But there they are. It's a failing of educational direction, hell, and the rest.

 

[ttystikk]

You can't break the status quo in a male dominated world unless you ALSO educate those males to understand it is acceptable. If you force give a women a job just to make up equality stats she will be belittled by male workers who are not being challenged on such behavior in third world country's. That type of thing is still prevalent even in our modern civilized society. This is one of the big problems your brushing statement of ''just educate women coz statistics'' does not take into account. What you are also still not taking into account is that educated women does not = all get jobs. No job, what next?. Does she then fall back into relying on a man who has a job who can assert authority over her (not all men ofc) or does she leave the country seeking work?. Maybe she just stays in that country in a state of limbo, a well educated women with no job or man.. sure sounds nice, at least statistically.



The statement is only a contradiction in the context that you understand it.

The real underlining problem here is that it's a third world country, mostly down to not having or being sucked dry of valuable resources by the west. they have poor infrastructure, hospitals, police, schooling and lack of jobs. Then you have a deep routed cultural tradition that women are the possession of men. I hope from that you can see why educating women will improve the statistics for those that are lucky but is a far stretch from solving the over all problem.

It's almost a perfect comparison to when African Americans suffered slavery. If only they were educated they could seek out work and break away. As you should well know that education counts for little when the majority of people holding the keys and job applications did not see them as equal. The door was eventually broken down sure.. but the racism is still deeply routed, on both sides. This is in a well established country that has good schooling infrastructure to surely educate this narrow minded shit out of people. But there they are. It's a failing of educational direction, hell, and the rest.

Hey I thought you were too good to argue with us.

The failing of educational direction has apparently happened in your case, at least.

 

[StonerCol]

Educated women for the fact of being educated are not suddenly going to stop being abused or discriminated against.

I don't necessarily disagree with that statement, more want to add something to it.
If a woman in a 3rd world country gets an education AND there is a job for her then the husband/family will most likely realise that their economic situation will change for the better. They then might well be advocates for the education of women because they experience the positives of it. Unfortunately though religion/tradition in many cases is a barrier to this kind of change. For example, it is the women in African countries who walk the 10 miles to collect water, not the men. This shows that education is only a part of the solution. Who would fetch the water if the women are attending school? What is the point of a woman getting an education if she is unhealthy due to lack of natural resources/food?

Incidentally, it is the Chinese who are investing in infrastructure in many African countries, in return for a long free go at that countries resources such as Iron Ore/Gold/Diamonds and precious metals. Not the perfect solution but it seems more of an answer than the West has.

 

[Flowki]

I don't necessarily disagree with that statement, more want to add something to it.
If a woman in a 3rd world country gets an education AND there is a job for her then the husband/family will most likely realise that their economic situation will change for the better. They then might well be advocates for the education of women because they experience the positives of it. Unfortunately though religion/tradition in many cases is a barrier to this kind of change. For example, it is the women in African countries who walk the 10 miles to collect water, not the men. This shows that education is only a part of the solution. Who would fetch the water if the women are attending school? What is the point of a woman getting an education if she is unhealthy due to lack of natural resources/food?

Incidentally, it is the Chinese who are investing in infrastructure in many African countries, in return for a long free go at that countries resources such as Iron Ore/Gold/Diamonds and precious metals. Not the perfect solution but it seems more of an answer than the West has.

Yes I won't disagree with any of those points because it's genuinely that complex. You will even have men who see the economic gain of having his wife go to work but is so jealous/protective he won't allow it.

And wow ;{ after surviving slave trading, plundering, colonial/government neglect and epidemics of almost every kind they now have China and it's horrendous work ethics to contend with. But here's for hoping.

One would hope China's current methods are a means to a good end. I suppose history could forgive that if they help enough people after.

 

[StonerCol]

Yes I won't disagree with any of those points because it's genuinely that complex. You will even have men who see the economic gain of having his wife go to work but is so jealous/protective he won't allow it.

And wow ;{ after surviving slave trading, plundering, colonial/government neglect and epidemics of almost every kind they now have China and it's horrendous work ethics to contend with. But here's for hoping.

The Chinese may have bad work ethics although they don't seem to be as bad as you might think. They are at least building roads/medical centres/schools/dams which is more than Whitey did when he was there in the good ole colonial days.

 

[Flowki]

The Chinese may have bad work ethics although they don't seem to be as bad as you might think. They are at least building roads/medical centres/schools/dams which is more than Whitey did when he was there in the good ole colonial days.

Yes that's ofc a good thing. I just have a skeptical feeling they will only play ball until they get what they need. Hopefully the African governments seize opportunity's like this to put a foot in the renewable industry. That to me is Africa's real long term way out.

 

[StonerCol]

That to me is Africa's real long term way out.

Absolutely!
The landline phone network was always crap in most African countries. When mobile phones came along the countries skipped the evolutionary stage of improving the landline networks and ended up with good coverage on the mobile networks which has revolutionised communications in Africa. That technology made a huge difference. Companies developed apps etc to enable people to transfer money etc or get small start-up loans to start a small business.
Getting ahead with technology is definitely the way ahead for that continent.
There was a story a while ago of a kid who watched a few vids on Youtube and built some lights and other stuff for his remote village. Giving the people the modern tools is having the same kind of effect that the Industrial Revolution had in the UK/US etc back in the day.

 

[Flowki]

Absolutely!
The landline phone network was always crap in most African countries. When mobile phones came along the countries skipped the evolutionary stage of improving the landline networks and ended up with good coverage on the mobile networks which has revolutionised communications in Africa. That technology made a huge difference. Companies developed apps etc to enable people to transfer money etc or get small start-up loans to start a small business.
Getting ahead with technology is definitely the way ahead for that continent.
There was a story a while ago of a kid who watched a few vids on Youtube and built some lights and other stuff for his remote village. Giving the people the modern tools is having the same kind of effect that the Industrial Revolution had in the UK/US etc back in the day.

Yeah that sounds very positive, god knows they deserve it. How did you come to know so much about Africa in particular?.

 

[ttystikk]

Yeah that sounds very positive, god knows they deserve it.

What Africa needs above all else is good governance.

It's what they haven't been getting from the West or from themselves (Idi Amin? Robert Mugabe? The thugs currently running the DRC into the ground? Exactly.). Since the newcomers also have their own interests, I wouldn't be looking to them for it, either.

 

[Flowki]

What Africa needs above all else is good governance.

It's what they haven't been getting from the West or from themselves (Idi Amin? Robert Mugabe? The thugs currently running the DRC into the ground? Exactly.). Since the newcomers also have their own interests, I wouldn't be looking to them for it, either.

Yeah I vaguely recall England being somewhat involved in loaning a lot of guilt trip money to help people but it was basically spent on palaces and so forth, slowing down development by generations. I have not followed Africa so much in recent years, so much else going on in the world but from what stoner is saying it's doing a lot better than I thought.

I would still prefer it that the uk remained the big player in the development of Africa or any third world country. At current it is the most trustworthy that is in a position to help, dare I use such a word given the history. Shame the eu is such a political cluster fuck and full of crooks as it could have done so much more across the world.

 

[Fogdog]

Yeah I vaguely recall England being somewhat involved in loaning a lot of guilt trip money to help people but it was basically spent on palaces and so forth, slowing down development by generations. I have not followed Africa so much in recent years, so much else going on in the world but from what stoner is saying it's doing a lot better than I thought.

I would still prefer it that the uk remained the big player in the development of Africa or any third world country. At current it is the most trustworthy that is in a position to help, dare I use such a word given the history. Shame the eu is such a political cluster fuck and full of crooks as it could have done so much more across the world.

The white man's burden is so heavy. sigh

 

[ttystikk]

Yeah I vaguely recall England being somewhat involved in loaning a lot of guilt trip money to help people but it was basically spent on palaces and so forth, slowing down development by generations. I have not followed Africa so much in recent years, so much else going on in the world but from what stoner is saying it's doing a lot better than I thought.

I would still prefer it that the uk remained the big player in the development of Africa or any third world country. At current it is the most trustworthy that is in a position to help, dare I use such a word given the history. Shame the eu is such a political cluster fuck and full of crooks as it could have done so much more across the world.

LMFAO- you think England is the most trustworthy partner in the colonization and development of Africa?!

Jesusfuck, who do you think screwed them up in the first place?!

You really need to read more and talk less.

 

[Flowki]

The white man's burden is so heavy. sigh

Hah, funny enough I feel sorry for the avg well balanced white man in modern times, who are ofc innocent from past traditions. The amount of politically correct angles (some absurd ones) he is under attack from is mind blowing. But then add in the delusional extremism that is within said groups.. it's a horrible position to be in. I could Imagine being a white American cop is a very difficult job.

As ttys kindly demonstrates above, the ability for people to remember the past but forgive and move on is difficult.

 

[ttystikk]

Hah, funny enough I feel sorry for the avg well balanced white man in modern times, who are ofc innocent from past traditions. The amount of politically correct angles (some absurd ones) he is under attack from is mind blowing. But then add in the delusional extremism that is within said groups.. it's a horrible position to be in. I could Imagine being a white American cop is a very difficult job.

As ttys kindly demonstrates above, the ability for people to remember the past but forgive and move on is difficult.

As usual, your logic is twisted, self serving and fails to square with the facts.

Try learning about a subject before you go pontificating about it. Seems to be a habit of yours.

 

[Flowki]

As usual, your logic is twisted, self serving and fails to square with the facts.

Try learning about a subject before you go pontificating about it. Seems to be a habit of yours.

You are incapable of processing unorthodox or general opposing opinions. That is evident by the way you lift things out of context and default ad hominem comments at every cross road. You seem to be giving a lot of attention to a person you obviously deem an idiot. I don't want to put you on ignore but you offer little else than personal baits.