How much co2 is to much

[Linnylayden]

Hi i no levels should be 12-1500ppm and im using a meter to measure this and im getting readings around 2-3000 i no to much but im only using cheap smart co2 bags so have no control over this, so my question is how much co2 can the plant take before it becomes harmful and are my levels of 2-3000 ok.

 

[chemphlegm]

I've ramped my rooms(bagged plants too, to over 10k ppm with no issues, except humidity, dead pests, and heat(I use a c02 generator running on propane, adds heat and humidity)

put your meter on the opposite side of the room as your bags btw.

 

[Dr. Who]

@Linnylayden

While chemphlegm is not doing his health any good. He is not near the "death" point yet!
Brain function decreases at measurable rates over 800ppm and you'll have serious problems at 10K!. It is not deadly though.

50K+ is dead!

BUT

What is the best rates the plant can actually use?
You know what a Bell curve is right?
Lighting intensity increases, so does the effective rate of Co2 use by ppm.
Once you hit around 48,240 lux and around 1200 -1300 ppm, It begins to fall back off *FAST*. The effective rate of use at 1300 ppm (48,240 lux) is just about the best you can get.....The point of 1500 ppm is the effective use rate limit as any increase after that is basically not possible to obtain, as you have hit the effective lighting limits. The point between 1300 and 1500 ppm is a very slow increase in effective use by the plant, compared to the needed increase in light intensity to achieve it!

TO use a 1500 PPM of Co2, You must be putting 80,400 lux of lighting on your plants. So to actually get that last 200 ppm to be effective. You must increase your light lux output by 31,760 lux !!!!! That's about a 75% increase in light to get just 200 more ppm to work!

So then, to be accurate. Mr. Chemphlegm is simply wasting gas,, and money,, to cool the added heat, not to mention that he has vastly increased RH, or water in the air. For every gallon of propane burned. He gets 1.6 pounds of water in the air. That comes to 24.54 ounces of water or over 3 cups per gallon of gas used.

10K of ppm is simply stupid! The effective use limit is possibly 1500 ppm, and 1300 ppm is right at the peak of effective use by the plant vs. cost of delivery and lighting requirments.
Understand that?

 

[Linnylayden]

I've ramped my rooms(bagged plants too, to over 10k ppm with no issues, except humidity, dead pests, and heat(I use a c02 generator running on propane, adds heat and humidity)

put your meter on the opposite side of the room as your bags btw.

Thanks for that ile try the meter in a different part of room and see if i get a diffarent reading

 

[Dr. Who]

Thanks for that ile try the meter in a different part of room and see if i get a diffarent reading

Run a small fan at ground level! The gas sinks as it's heavier then air! Get it circulating !!

 

[Linnylayden]

Run a small fan at ground level! The gas sinks as it's heavier then air! Get it circulating !!

Hi dr who googled flux and it says a 600 watt light has 90000 and ive 4 of them so that should be fine, im new to all this so learning on the job and ive got fans circulating and one aimed at floor as you said, i remember reading somewhere and not sure of level it said but think around 2500 ppm that its more harmful to the plant than good, i may be wrong on that level ! So with mine being really high at 2-3000 ppm basically im just checking im not going to be hurting them more than helping

 

[Dr. Who]

Hi dr who googled flux and it says a 600 watt light has 90000 and ive 4 of them so that should be fine, im new to all this so learning on the job and ive got fans circulating and one aimed at floor as you said, i remember reading somewhere and not sure of level it said but think around 2500 ppm that its more harmful to the plant than good, i may be wrong on that level ! So with mine being really high at 2-3000 ppm basically im just checking im not going to be hurting them more than helping

Umm, sorry but a 600w has 90000 lumens!!! Lumem = Im

lux = the intensity of light delivered to a square meter.....So Im x m2 = lux

Here is a simple watts of bulb to lux by space converter.

http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/light/watt-to-lux-calculator.htm

Lets say your in a 5x5 space. That is 25sq ft. Your 600W HPS is delivering 30,225 lux in that space
A 1K bulb will deliver 50,375 of lux, and that gives you an effective value to employ 1300 ppm.

As long as your delivering enough water and light.....Your FINE! You could exhaust more.....but why? The other thing with co2 is that you have to run hotter and more humid to make it "work"!

While many of us don't exactly follow the Vapor Pressure Deficit law of growing. You had better run damn close to the needed values in boosting Co2....

If your running high ppm rates. You need to be at about 90F and 80% RH for the best results!

 

[chemphlegm]

@Linnylayden

While chemphlegm is not doing his health any good. He is not near the "death" point yet!
Brain function decreases at measurable rates over 800ppm and you'll have serious problems at 10K!. It is not deadly though.

50K+ is dead!

BUT

What is the best rates the plant can actually use?
You know what a Bell curve is right?
Lighting intensity increases, so does the effective rate of Co2 use by ppm.
Once you hit around 48,240 lux and around 1200 -1300 ppm, It begins to fall back off *FAST*. The effective rate of use at 1300 ppm (48,240 lux) is just about the best you can get.....The point of 1500 ppm is the effective use rate limit as any increase after that is basically not possible to obtain, as you have hit the effective lighting limits. The point between 1300 and 1500 ppm is a very slow increase in effective use by the plant, compared to the needed increase in light intensity to achieve it!

TO use a 1500 PPM of Co2, You must be putting 80,400 lux of lighting on your plants. So to actually get that last 200 ppm to be effective. You must increase your light lux output by 31,760 lux !!!!! That's about a 75% increase in light to get just 200 more ppm to work!

So then, to be accurate. Mr. Chemphlegm is simply wasting gas,, and money,, to cool the added heat, not to mention that he has vastly increased RH, or water in the air. For every gallon of propane burned. He gets 1.6 pounds of water in the air. That comes to 24.54 ounces of water or over 3 cups per gallon of gas used.

10K of ppm is simply stupid! The effective use limit is possibly 1500 ppm, and 1300 ppm is right at the peak of effective use by the plant vs. cost of delivery and lighting requirments.
Understand that?

whoa whoa whoa there, before you take nibbles out my arse read closer. I dont practice this. I have done it is all. I did it for a pest kill first in someones room using a large plastic bag with the plants inside. the bags air was evacuated and then replaced with
c02 from a bottle, its not rocket science really, we watched bugs die before our eyes. the meter inside topped at 10k, maybe was higher. we didnt stick our heads in there. I did it in my rooms in tents too, when I thought I had a serious pest issue, aphids and gnats were dead all over the place in there when i did it, felt good too. I dont have needs to do it, but would not hesitate to in a bagg like described, my meters shut the gen down at 15oo and turn back on when depleted, like normal...geesh man. lighten up aye?

 

[Linnylayden]

Umm, sorry but a 600w has 90000 lumens!!! Lumem = Im

lux = the intensity of light delivered to a square meter.....So Im x m2 = lux

Here is a simple watts of bulb to lux by space converter.

http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/light/watt-to-lux-calculator.htm

Lets say your in a 5x5 space. That is 25sq ft. Your 600W HPS is delivering 30,225 lux in that space
A 1K bulb will deliver 50,375 of lux, and that gives you an effective value to employ 1300 ppm.

As long as your delivering enough water and light.....Your FINE! You could exhaust more.....but why? The other thing with co2 is that you have to run hotter and more humid to make it "work"!

While many of us don't exactly follow the Vapor Pressure Deficit law of growing. You had better run damn close to the needed values in boosting Co2....

If your running high ppm rates. You need to be at about 90F and 80% RH for the best results!

As i said u was new to this and just had a quick look at what google said on lux obviously i should of read more. I do have a space around 8x8 size using the 4 lights. I didnt realise you needed high levels of humidity when using co2 i hadnt come across that you say 80% is that in flower aswell

 

[Dr. Who]

whoa whoa whoa there, before you take nibbles out my arse read closer. I dont practice this. I have done it is all. I did it for a pest kill first in someones room using a large plastic bag with the plants inside. the bags air was evacuated and then replaced with
c02 from a bottle, its not rocket science really, we watched bugs die before our eyes. the meter inside topped at 10k, maybe was higher. we didnt stick our heads in there. I did it in my rooms in tents too, when I thought I had a serious pest issue, aphids and gnats were dead all over the place in there when i did it, felt good too. I dont have needs to do it, but would not hesitate to in a bagg like described, my meters shut the gen down at 15oo and turn back on when depleted, like normal...geesh man. lighten up aye?

I answered to this post I read Chemy......No problems though! Got the details now!

I've ramped my rooms(bagged plants too, to over 10k ppm with no issues, except humidity, dead pests, and heat(I use a c02 generator running on propane, adds heat and humidity)

put your meter on the opposite side of the room as your bags btw.

 

[Dr. Who]

As i said u was new to this and just had a quick look at what google said on lux obviously i should of read more. I do have a space around 8x8 size using the 4 lights. I didnt realise you needed high levels of humidity when using co2 i hadnt come across that you say 80% is that in flower aswell

Are you saying your doing this in veg?

Umm, ah, Gassing in veg is not worth the cost! Your gain comes in bloom! Your increasing yields!!!

YES! As soon as you apply 1300 ppm. Turn up the heat and the RH or the extra gas will have little quality effect! Most of us that run gas. Use environmental controllers that hold the high temps and Rh's along with controlling the gassing by tank or generator.....You preset upper limits and it runs exhaust and/or AC's that keep things hunky-dory.....

I'm rather taken aback that those little bag deals are hitting so hard in that space! How many are in there?

It must be 90F and 80% RH for 1300 and above ppm's to actually have the plant use it! For the 8x8 to have proper lux with 600w HPS. You would need them to overlap and have more lights. (Hang on doing math)

Your running effectively over 47K lux per 4x4 lighting area, and you should be good to go for 12-1300 ppm!

I could go into all sorts of science on gassing. But then Jimmy Sparkle will drop in and call me an old windbag ....

 

[Linnylayden]

Are you saying your doing this in veg?

Umm, ah, Gassing in veg is not worth the cost! Your gain comes in bloom! Your increasing yields!!!

YES! As soon as you apply 1300 ppm. Turn up the heat and the RH or the extra gas will have little quality effect! Most of us that run gas. Use environmental controllers that hold the high temps and Rh's along with controlling the gassing by tank or generator.....You preset upper limits and it runs exhaust and/or AC's that keep things hunky-dory.....

I'm rather taken aback that those little bag deals are hitting so hard in that space! How many are in there?

It must be 90F and 80% RH for 1300 and above ppm's to actually have the plant use it! For the 8x8 to have proper lux with 600w HPS. You would need them to overlap and have more lights. (Hang on doing math)

Your running effectively over 47K lux per 4x4 lighting area, and you should be good to go for 12-1300 ppm!

I could go into all sorts of science on gassing. But then Jimmy Sparkle will drop in and call me an old windbag ....

I am in the 3rd wk of flower and i only have 2 of the smart co2 bags going and i was thinking the same theres no way they should be hitting so hard, ive just been to empty the dehumidifier and the ppm is only 900 now so im thinking it must be a dodgy meter although its only just over a month old, next time round though im going to get some proper co2 dispencer with accurate measuring gauge,really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

 

[nfhiggs]

Hi i no levels should be 12-1500ppm and im using a meter to measure this and im getting readings around 2-3000 i no to much but im only using cheap smart co2 bags so have no control over this, so my question is how much co2 can the plant take before it becomes harmful and are my levels of 2-3000 ok.

Unless you have maxxed out all other aspects of your grow, messing with CO2 is a waste of time and money.

 

[chemphlegm]

Unless you have maxxed out all other aspects of your grow, messing with CO2 is a waste of time and money.

leibigs law(?) a plant will grow only to its weakest resource

 

[Dr. Who]

I am in the 3rd wk of flower and i only have 2 of the smart co2 bags going and i was thinking the same theres no way they should be hitting so hard, ive just been to empty the dehumidifier and the ppm is only 900 now so im thinking it must be a dodgy meter although its only just over a month old, next time round though im going to get some proper co2 dispencer with accurate measuring gauge,really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

Your welcome. Glad I could help!

 

[Dr. Who]

Unless you have maxxed out all other aspects of your grow, messing with CO2 is a waste of time and money.

Once you get out of smaller area's.....I find basically no real reason to vs, cost.

For the tent crowd or up to maybe 10x10 or so.....It can make some really big difference's........Over 30%....the thing is, it has to be dialed in and kept so tightly run.....Many can't do that.....There are those here who swear by it, and get impressive results from it's use.

If your hitting potentials....I personally, wouldn't bother..

My 2 cent reply

 

[Linnylayden]

I have a 24 pot aeroponic system everything in the growroom dialled in perfect temp, humidity, ec, ph, using all the nutes and boosters im not in a tent im using a cellar and co2 from what i read is the last thing that could help. I've done a couple of grows now and just thought next time id give it a go with proper co2, will this be worth my while or not ? Should i keep using the cheap smart bags ? Any advice welcome, thanks in advance.