EXPERTS IN 5 GAL BUCKETS DWC ONLY PLEASE!!

[sirsmokealot710]

Hello people, I would like to ask a couple questions in hopes of bettering my crops.

Ok, I have been growing DWC for over a year now, and this is the formulas I have tried. All were in 5 gallon buckets with 3 gallons of nutrient solutions. all General Hydroponics Flora Series, 2 600w lights, and now an addition of a 1000w for the last harvest.

First grow, Lucas Formula (8ml/16ml) with NO res changes, I topped off with nute water or tap water depending on ppm and checked when they got down to one gallon in the res. did not get deficiencies until week 5 flower, and the red reservoir stained my roots and buds a bit.

Second round, Lucas (5ml/10ml) same deal, No res changes, topped off with water or nutes depending on ppm. it was annoying using the ppm meters and ph meters every day, roots stained red, buds a bit red.

Third round, Lucas (8ml/16ml) with a RES change EVERY 3 gallons topped off of tap water (the res size). this harvest was dispensary quality and they bought it on multiple occasions, yet i personally saw deficiencies week 5 of flower or so.

fourth round, COMPLETE TRIO FULL STRENTH, RES CHANGE EVERY 3 GAL. this round is nearly done, just as good as the last round, but nute burn. Some plants drink a gallon or more a day, so i was changing res every three days full strength.

MY QUESTIONS FOR THE EXPERTS

If i do a lucas 8/16 again and change the RES out every 7-10 days and only add tap in between, will i get better results. if the plant is drinking a gallon a day, that means it's getting only tap water for four days.

I want to try a GH TRIO full strength again with only changing the res every 7 days, not every time they drink 3 gallons. this would limit the weeks where i did two res changes per plant.

i also want to try another lucas 5/10 with res changes to see. anyone have experience? i mainly grow sour og cali connect, huge plants about 6 to 8 ounces.

 

[blackforest]

It would be impossible to tell if it would turn out better until you actual try it. My system tops off with regular water during the week and I change out once per week. I've experimented with various lucas ratio's and currently do run the 3 line of GH. GH has a lot of nitrogen in the grow portion, that's why lucas cuts it out, because micro has enough N within it, itself. During veg, I run all 3, and ec is 1.0-1.8 in veg and about 1.4 in flower. I do cut out the grow portion in flower and run a 2:1 ratio bloom/micro only after they are done stretching. I know what you are talking about with the red color of the water, but I've never had my roots stain, nor my buds show any red color either, that's weird. I also think running full strength GH in a dwc or rdwc system is a bit much. When mixing nutes, I aim for a specific ec vs a specific amount (8/16, 5/10, etc.). Since your system is not automatically topping off, how often are you topping off with water? They won't be just drinking water for 4 days like you said because they uptake water itself too, so while your nutrient concentration will dilute over that week, it should not go to zero. I've topped off with plain water, and with nutrient water. Currently I top off with plain water through a float valve with a rez.

 

[sirsmokealot710]

It would be impossible to tell if it would turn out better until you actual try it. My system tops off with regular water during the week and I change out once per week. I've experimented with various lucas ratio's and currently do run the 3 line of GH. GH has a lot of nitrogen in the grow portion, that's why lucas cuts it out, because micro has enough N within it, itself. During veg, I run all 3, and ec is 1.0-1.8 in veg and about 1.4 in flower. I do cut out the grow portion in flower and run a 2:1 ratio bloom/micro only after they are done stretching. I know what you are talking about with the red color of the water, but I've never had my roots stain, nor my buds show any red color either, that's weird. I also think running full strength GH in a dwc or rdwc system is a bit much. When mixing nutes, I aim for a specific ec vs a specific amount (8/16, 5/10, etc.). Since your system is not automatically topping off, how often are you topping off with water? They won't be just drinking water for 4 days like you said because they uptake water itself too, so while your nutrient concentration will dilute over that week, it should not go to zero. I've topped off with plain water, and with nutrient water. Currently I top off with plain water through a float valve with a rez.

i appreciate the quick response. about the roots staining red, it was like i said, because i never changed the res and that was including a 6 to 8 week veg. now that i am changing the res out every three gallons or a week, it is dispensary quality. but as the grower, i see the flaws and will do everything in my power to correct it. when i grew in soil, the plants would yellow off and thats it. now, they yellow off with signs of deficiencies and or nute burn, depending on the formula i have tried. i can't seem to get it perfect. when i was checking ph and ppm and topping off with nutes or water depending on the numbers, that is when i didn't change the res and got stained roots. wheni just change the water every three gallons or a week, i don't check any ppm or ph stuff and it seems to work better.

i was on some website and their schedule suggest a 5ml micro to 7.5ml bloom, which would be the same as 6:9ml i believe. i am going to try that. i didn't really see any difference between using LUCAS and using the trio, in fact i want to dial in LUCAS to get rid of the third bottle.

i top off every morning at 6am and noon and 6pm. they never go below 2gal out of a 3 gal res and that's when they drink a gallon a day.

i imagine maybe them drinking two reservoirs worth in one week is overkill at full strength. i have some plants ready to go in to bloom soon, and i will try using the trio at half strenght and lucas at either 5/10 or 6/9. and for these plants, i will not do a res change every 3 gallons topped off. instead, i will just res change every week or so.

 

[sirsmokealot710]

these were all grown with lucas 5/10, three different strains. maybe the buds didn't stain as red as i thought, but my roots for sure stained red when i didn't change reservoirs. and the sour og with a res change is just more vibrant and greener than the ones without it. these three strains are emerald triangle royal purple kush, reserva privada og kush, and 710 genetics berry og. i feel like they could taste better too. the flushing time has varied from 5 days to three weeks, and they all don't taste the way i want them too. maybe i'm just asking for too much.

 

[Alienwidow]

You know ive never looked into lucas formula. I always just use the ppm meter to guide the amount of food i give. As they grow, give em higher ppms. Seems pretty simple to me. Dwc dispensary quality buds should be easy enough to grow with a two part grow/bloom and a calmag suplement without any deficiancies. Personally i think that if you own a ppm meter that dwc is the most simple and user friendly way to grow. The plants stay green right until the end if you keep it simple. I would always change the buckets out every two weeks at the start and every week when theyve put on the buds and are drinking faster. Someone told me once to change the rez once the plant has consumed the volume of the Rez completely. I ran a huuuuge rez once and changed it once for a whole grow. Plants were great but they didnt drink the volume once.

 

[sirsmokealot710]

You know ive never looked into lucas formula. I always just use the ppm meter to guide the amount of food i give. As they grow, give em higher ppms. Seems pretty simple to me. Dwc dispensary quality buds should be easy enough to grow with a two part grow/bloom and a calmag suplement without any deficiancies. Personally i think that if you own a ppm meter that dwc is the most simple and user friendly way to grow. The plants stay green right until the end if you keep it simple. I would always change the buckets out every two weeks at the start and every week when theyve put on the buds and are drinking faster. Someone told me once to change the rez once the plant has consumed the volume of the Rez completely. I ran a huuuuge rez once and changed it once for a whole grow. Plants were great but they didnt drink the volume once.

i use tap water of a 180ppm and was told not to add cal mag, but i do have some. i have the ppm and ph meters, when i mix lucas formula at 8/16 its like 1200ppm .5 conversion and 5/10 is 900ppm. my clones can accept the full strength 8/16 no problem. in fact i never have any issues in veg, ever. i can veg with just 3tsp grow per gallon and they do perfect. it's the flowering that i get issues, and it's always after week 4.

i am going to try just topping off with water the whole week, regardless if i go over the three gallon res size, and also start with lower concentrations. i don't like messing with cal mag and ph up and down, it just complicated things with the same results. my ph is perfect with lucas and the trio, and it does not shift low because i am topping off three times a day.

 

[Alienwidow]

i use tap water of a 180ppm and was told not to add cal mag, but i do have some. i have the ppm and ph meters, when i mix lucas formula at 8/16 its like 1200ppm .5 conversion and 5/10 is 900ppm. my clones can accept the full strength 8/16 no problem. in fact i never have any issues in veg, ever. i can veg with just 3tsp grow per gallon and they do perfect. it's the flowering that i get issues, and it's always after week 4.

i am going to try just topping off with water the whole week, regardless if i go over the three gallon res size, and also start with lower concentrations. i don't like messing with cal mag and ph up and down, it just complicated things with the same results. my ph is perfect with lucas and the trio, and it does not shift low because i am topping off three times a day.

Ha, thats funny. I was getting mag def in flower too until i started adding calmag all the time. You shouldnt have yellowing in dwc unless somethings wrong. I dont ph either, ever, but im telling you, plants consume one of the two, either cal or mag? I cant remember, almost as much as p or k? I cant remember.... So thats not really a definitive answer for you but im sure you get the idea. You need calmag. If youve tried everything, it wouldnt hurt to give calmag a try. Its used by id say 90% of growers and the two of those elements are the most common deficiancies.

 

[sirsmokealot710]

Ha, thats funny. I was getting mag def in flower too until i started adding calmag all the time. You shouldnt have yellowing in dwc unless somethings wrong. I dont ph either, ever, but im telling you, plants consume one of the two, either cal or mag? I cant remember, almost as much as p or k? I cant remember.... So thats not really a definitive answer for you but im sure you get the idea. You need calmag. If youve tried everything, it wouldnt hurt to give calmag a try. Its used by id say 90% of growers and the two of those elements are the most common deficiancies.

i think you're right dude. i need to add cal mag. like i said, i have it, and used it before, but not the last year. i do have calcium and magnesium deficiencies, and i don't know if they are from lack of those nutrients available or perhaps nutrient lockout due to my ph is probably lower than 6.

it is kinda fun experimenting with it all, but goddamnit i just want perfect plants. i am going to add cal/mag to my reservoirs in week 3 of flower just as the pistils start forming and right before my deficiencies start. i just need to get flowering weeks 4 thru 7 down perfect, and my whole grows will be satisfactory for me. those are my problem weeks.

 

[blackforest]

When I mix a lucas formula, it lowers my ph too much. I use ro water and if I'm getting close to 700 ppm after adding nutes, ph is 5.3 pretty much all the time (starting at 8.0, 10ppm). I, like yourself never used ph up, just thought that was good to go, but started to see some N def and Mg def. Due to an uncalibrated ph meter, I was running at 5.2-5.4 for a week. Later in flower, they like a ph much closer to 6.0-6.2 to be honest. Mg is absorbed starting at 5.8 area is why you might have def in that category. I recomend 5.8 ph to be on the safe side at rez change, a constant low ph will lock out some nutes. So basically, my experience is that mixing a lucas formula the ph is a little too low, especially later in flower. (based on my experience of it coming out to 5.3 area)

 

[Alienwidow]

i think you're right dude. i need to add cal mag. like i said, i have it, and used it before, but not the last year. i do have calcium and magnesium deficiencies, and i don't know if they are from lack of those nutrients available or perhaps nutrient lockout due to my ph is probably lower than 6.

it is kinda fun experimenting with it all, but goddamnit i just want perfect plants. i am going to add cal/mag to my reservoirs in week 3 of flower just as the pistils start forming and right before my deficiencies start. i just need to get flowering weeks 4 thru 7 down perfect, and my whole grows will be satisfactory for me. those are my problem weeks.

I run it from week two of veg and start low. Then just increase slowly to week 8 at 100-150 ppms through to two and a half weeks before chop. When i cut the calmag out i switch to a product called magnum. Its mag and sulfer and its cheap. Plant still gets the mag and most people will tell you to cut out calcium and most nitrogen a couple weeks before chop.

 

[sirsmokealot710]

When I mix a lucas formula, it lowers my ph too much. I use ro water and if I'm getting close to 700 ppm after adding nutes, ph is 5.3 pretty much all the time (starting at 8.0, 10ppm). I, like yourself never used ph up, just thought that was good to go, but started to see some N def and Mg def. Due to an uncalibrated ph meter, I was running at 5.2-5.4 for a week. Later in flower, they like a ph much closer to 6.0-6.2 to be honest. Mg is absorbed starting at 5.8 area is why you might have def in that category. I recomend 5.8 ph to be on the safe side at rez change, a constant low ph will lock out some nutes. So basically, my experience is that mixing a lucas formula the ph is a little too low, especially later in flower. (based on my experience of it coming out to 5.3 area)

i just checked my journal notes, and LUCAS at 5/10 puts me at 750ppm and 5.7ph, while LUCAS at 8/16ml puts me at 1100 and 5.8ph. for this reason alone, i never wanted to manipulate the ph, i got more problems when i did. when i did not change reservoirs, the PH would move down to 4.5 area as they drank down to one gallon. when i top off three times a day it is stable.
my tap water is city 180ppm and ph in the 8.1 ranges.

I run it from week two of veg and start low. Then just increase slowly to week 8 at 100-150 ppms through to two and a half weeks before chop. When i cut the calmag out i switch to a product called magnum. Its mag and sulfer and its cheap. Plant still gets the mag and most people will tell you to cut out calcium and most nitrogen a couple weeks before chop.

if i am not getting any deficiencies in veg, why should i add the cal mag during week two of veg? can't i just add it after the stretch right before my deficiencies show up, or would it be better to place it int he res earlier so that plant absorbs it more? i don't want to use formulas and figure out how much cal mag is needed to gain 200 ppm. quite honestly i don't know how. obviously i could figure it out, i got all As in calculus, but i just never bothered.

 

[Alienwidow]

i just checked my journal notes, and LUCAS at 5/10 puts me at 750ppm and 5.7ph, while LUCAS at 8/16ml puts me at 1100 and 5.8ph. for this reason alone, i never wanted to manipulate the ph, i got more problems when i did. when i did not change reservoirs, the PH would move down to 4.5 area as they drank down to one gallon. when i top off three times a day it is stable.
my tap water is city 180ppm and ph in the 8.1 ranges.


if i am not getting any deficiencies in veg, why should i add the cal mag during week two of veg? can't i just add it after the stretch right before my deficiencies show up, or would it be better to place it int he res earlier so that plant absorbs it more? i don't want to use formulas and figure out how much cal mag is needed to gain 200 ppm. quite honestly i don't know how. obviously i could figure it out, i got all As in calculus, but i just never bothered.

Deficiancies start weeks before the plant is showing signs. Necrosis is the result of an unhealthy plant that is dying because it gotten to that point. Keep it healthy by adding calmag. Some nutrients depend on others to be utilized by the plant. Do a few hours of reading on calmag and youll find the answers your looking for.

 

[Alienwidow]

and what formulas are going to give you as accurate measurements as a ppm meter? How do you know what the plants consuming from the water daily? And what to top up with? A formula? The formula doesnt eat the food, the plant does, ask the plant and not the formula what it wants for dinner.

 

[sirsmokealot710]

Deficiancies start weeks before the plant is showing signs. Necrosis is the result of an unhealthy plant that is dying because it gotten to that point. Keep it healthy by adding calmag. Some nutrients depend on others to be utilized by the plant. Do a few hours of reading on calmag and youll find the answers your looking for.

i don't like when people say look at the plants. no offense, but that's condescending. i am aware the plants look unhealthy and am aware of the types of deficiencies i see, that's not a good answer. as for ppm, they are inaccurate. they measure the total dissolved solids, yet that is no indication as to the ratio of what is available in the res. if you let a res unchanged for a month and only top off, the TDS will read 2000-3000 ppm yet that is all garbage and waste that the plant put back in the res.

 

[rkymtnman]

i would change 2 things and see how it works. (i've used lucas for last 6 years)

use RO water only.

i would go for a week b/t res changes. after day 7, i would give them just 5.8 RO water for 24 hrs. then give them 8/16 (or 5/10) for the next 7 days. they seemed to really like the mini flush and would suck up the nutes on day 1 and 2.

why do you have problems mid grow would be my question to you? any root rot going on?

 

[Alienwidow]

i don't like when people say look at the plants. no offense, but that's condescending. i am aware the plants look unhealthy and am aware of the types of deficiencies i see, that's not a good answer. as for ppm, they are inaccurate. they measure the total dissolved solids, yet that is no indication as to the ratio of what is available in the res. if you let a res unchanged for a month and only top off, the TDS will read 2000-3000 ppm yet that is all garbage and waste that the plant put back in the res.

None taken, i didnt say look at the plants. I said read the ppm meter to see what the plants eating out of the rez between fills.
Mix nutes, read. Fill. Wait one day. Open rez, read. Log, calculate ppm of top off water, add. Read. Repeat.
Theres no way youll end up with 2000 ppms if you dwc properly with your ppm meter.
Example. Heavy feeding in mid flower....
Target ppms are 1000 ppm, mix, add. Wait one day. Open rez, read. 840 ppm. Log, calculate ppm top off water -one gallon has been consumed and the plants have dropped the ppm to 840 therefore one gallon of water at 1200ppm should even out the other three gallons at 840 to an even 1000 again for you. Read, if yes good, if no fix it.
Thats how dwc and ppm meters work, like i said earlier. A formula won't tell you what the plant wants for dinner, a ppm meter will.
The reason you empty the rez and start new from time to time is that some elements arent consumed so they build up, get rid of those so the ppms can be the stuff ya want in there the plant will eat.

 

[sirsmokealot710]

i would change 2 things and see how it works. (i've used lucas for last 6 years)

use RO water only.

i would go for a week b/t res changes. after day 7, i would give them just 5.8 RO water for 24 hrs. then give them 8/16 (or 5/10) for the next 7 days. they seemed to really like the mini flush and would suck up the nutes on day 1 and 2.

why do you have problems mid grow would be my question to you? any root rot going on?

there's no way i'm gonna move to RO water, with the added waste and all to create it. my tap should be decent. i don't know why i have defeciencies mid grow! that's why i'm here dawg! it's either nute lockout from over fertilization or it's the cal mag issue. growers in my area swore i didn't need to add cal mag if i use my cities tap, but maybe my strain needs it.

the issue is week 4 of flower on huge plants. it's not an issue of res changes or stale root rot, my roots are white as a whistle with my constant changes and top offs. my water smells great, the room has an AC on 24/7 after week 5 flower, the humidity is 40% and the temps are 77% with 2 600w and one 1000w, and i have oscillating fans all over the place.

None taken, i didnt say look at the plants. I said read the ppm meter to see what the plants eating out of the rez between fills.
Mix nutes, read. Fill. Wait one day. Open rez, read. Log, calculate ppm of top off water, add. Read. Repeat.
Theres no way youll end up with 2000 ppms if you dwc properly with your ppm meter.
Example. Heavy feeding in mid flower....
Target ppms are 1000 ppm, mix, add. Wait one day. Open rez, read. 840 ppm. Log, calculate ppm top off water -one gallon has been consumed and the plants have dropped the ppm to 840 therefore one gallon of water at 1200ppm should even out the other three gallons at 840 to an even 1000 again for you. Read, if yes good, if no fix it.
Thats how dwc and ppm meters work, like i said earlier. A formula won't tell you what the plant wants for dinner, a ppm meter will.
The reason you empty the rez and start new from time to time is that some elements arent consumed so they build up, get rid of those so the ppms can be the stuff ya want in there the plant will eat.

you told me to ask the plant what it want's for dinner dawg! that's the same as some anser lik e"look idiot, look at the plants and they will tell you what they need." just doesn't get me anywhere! but i do appreciate your time to help me. and i already know the exact ppm and ph values of all my formulas. the meter is not needed at this point.

 

[rkymtnman]

i don't know why i have defeciencies mid grow

what is the deficiency(s)?

i buy my RO at walmart. no big deal for me. maybe $40 bucks per grow for water. and i know my water is not the problem.

 

[sirsmokealot710]

None taken, i didnt say look at the plants. I said read the ppm meter to see what the plants eating out of the rez between fills.
Mix nutes, read. Fill. Wait one day. Open rez, read. Log, calculate ppm of top off water, add. Read. Repeat.
Theres no way youll end up with 2000 ppms if you dwc properly with your ppm meter.
Example. Heavy feeding in mid flower....
Target ppms are 1000 ppm, mix, add. Wait one day. Open rez, read. 840 ppm. Log, calculate ppm top off water -one gallon has been consumed and the plants have dropped the ppm to 840 therefore one gallon of water at 1200ppm should even out the other three gallons at 840 to an even 1000 again for you. Read, if yes good, if no fix it.
Thats how dwc and ppm meters work, like i said earlier. A formula won't tell you what the plant wants for dinner, a ppm meter will.
The reason you empty the rez and start new from time to time is that some elements arent consumed so they build up, get rid of those so the ppms can be the stuff ya want in there the plant will eat.

and yes, if you veg mother plants in DWC for months and months without a res change, given the proper nutes, the plants still leach off waste into the water, raising the ppm up to 2000-3000. i've done it for months and months with mother plants, they don't mind the high ppm because it is not nutes, it is waste. it's just garbage, unusable. if the ph is fine and i top off with nutes, they grow, regardless if the ppm is rising to 2500

 

[sirsmokealot710]

what is the deficiency(s)?

i buy my RO at walmart. no big deal for me. maybe $40 bucks per grow for water. and i know my water is not the problem.

from all my trials, it always ends up being cal or mag deficiencies after week 4 of flower. the strain is cali connection sour og,it is sativa dominant and goes all the way to my 7ft ceiling. when i grew this in dirt it yellowed off perfectly, no cal or mag brown spots or browning leaf edges. now in dwc, i get those issues late in flower. the buds are still top notch and sellable to the medical community no problems, but i want it to be perfect.