Electric problem help!!

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
So turn off the main on the breaker? Thanks a lot I appriciate the help. I haven't been on in a while how do you give rep
Usually on the breaker, yes. I have no idea how the rep thing works, it don't matter. This site ain't all what I thought it was going to be anyways. You welcome for the help but still look it up on YouTube. Seeing it done is worth a thousand words.
 

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
Electrocution - there ain't no coming back! I was a RN many many years. A lot of it in ER. Do NOT attempt to repair your problem. You have a lack of understanding that can prove fatal.
What is he supposed to do? Call an electrician? Its not legal where he's at. A lot of you on here seem to forget that it is still illegal in most places!
 

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
I know. But nobody has advised pulling the breaker and testing it with a meter to even see if that is the problem. Is the panel capable of using a 20-amp instead of a 15 and IS IT SAFE TO DO SO?

Also as to extension cords or rewiring - ALWAYS go with largest gauge wire you can afford or steal it. You CANNOT install wire that is "too large" but you surely can install wire that is too light to carry the load. Then it kicks the breakers. The smaller the wire number the bigger the wire.

Therefore, what gauge wires are on your room devices like lights or pumps? Increase that bitch first. If it's 14/3 (common) rewire your device with 12/3 or even 10/3 if you can make it fit. And keep that cord as short as possible. That decreases resistance and decreases the load on the breaker. And stop plugging in the fucking vacuum cleaner. Use a large gauge extension cord to run it plugged into another circuit.
 
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jacksthc

Well-Known Member
just a thought have unplugged everything in the room and switched it back on as one faulty item could stop the breaker working
 

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
I know. But nobody has advised pulling the breaker and testing it with a meter to even see if that is the problem. Is the panel capable of using a 20-amp instead of a 15 and IS IT SAFE TO DO SO?

Also as to extension cords or rewiring - ALWAYS go with largest gauge wire you can afford or steal it. You CANNOT install wire that is "too large" but you surely can install wire that is too light to carry the load. Then it kicks the breakers. The smaller the wire number the bigger the wire.

Therefore, what gauge wires are on your room devices like lights or pumps? Increase that bitch first. If it's 14/3 (common) rewire your device with 12/3 or even 10/3 if you can make it fit. And keep that cord as short as possible. That decreases resistance and decreases the load on the breaker. And stop plugging in the fucking vacuum cleaner. Use a large gauge extension cord to run it plugged into another circuit.
^^^I agree^^^
 

caveman117

Well-Known Member
First off do not run your lights from extension cords. Itnis not what the extensions are made to do. I checked all the extension cords that I have at my house ( a lot) and most were 18 gauge which is much smaller than your probably 14 gauge wire on your ballast. Ive been told by multiple electricians that extensions have no place in my room if I want it to be safe.

Also if you get bit by your panel it could potentially kill you very easily. So if your not 100% positive about it dont do it.

Honestly I think you should run a whole new breaker for your room from the panel (with professional help). Its illegal where you are so you may have to move everything out of the room for the hour itntakes an electeician to put in a new line.

Edit* another thing is that wires temp rating of 60c should not be used with an hid light either. Even my 250w mh says right on it big letters absolute minimum 90c rated wire.
 

bigrake

Well-Known Member
I know. But nobody has advised pulling the breaker and testing it with a meter to even see if that is the problem. Is the panel capable of using a 20-amp instead of a 15 and IS IT SAFE TO DO SO?

Also as to extension cords or rewiring - ALWAYS go with largest gauge wire you can afford or steal it. You CANNOT install wire that is "too large" but you surely can install wire that is too light to carry the load. Then it kicks the breakers. The smaller the wire number the bigger the wire.

Therefore, what gauge wires are on your room devices like lights or pumps? Increase that bitch first. If it's 14/3 (common) rewire your device with 12/3 or even 10/3 if you can make it fit. And keep that cord as short as possible. That decreases resistance and decreases the load on the breaker. And stop plugging in the fucking vacuum cleaner. Use a large gauge extension cord to run it plugged into another circuit.
I only plugged the vacuum in once and after that unplugged my balast when I used it.
 

Carolina Dream'n

Well-Known Member
But a multimeter and check the breaker itself. If the breaker isn't fucked up, you probably burnt the outlet out, which isn't going to let power continue on that circuit.

Have you checked for ground faults?
 

bigrake

Well-Known Member
But a multimeter and check the breaker itself. If the breaker isn't fucked up, you probably burnt the outlet out, which isn't going to let power continue on that circuit.

Have you checked for ground faults?
I'm not a electrician nor do I know anything about it. I turned the breaker off then on to reset it when I saw the power was out and its not working.
 

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
I'm not a electrician nor do I know anything about it. I turned the breaker off then on to reset it when I saw the power was out and its not working.
I am extremely glad to hear this. Otherwise I was going to post a link as to how to treat victims of electrocution. This is one thing I simply do not encourage the inexperienced to do. 110V-220V household current carries enough amperage to kill instantly or to send the victim into ventricular fibrillation. Without quick intervention with a defibrillator (and often even with one) the heart quickly "stops". It really is life and death!
 

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
I'm not a electrician nor do I know anything about it. I turned the breaker off then on to reset it when I saw the power was out and its not working.
I am not talking shit when I say this but you need to learn this kind of stuff. It can be a pain in the ass and daunting at times, I know, but when you can't pay an electrician to come in do these things for you you are going to have to do some of this shit yourself. Just do as much research as you can first. Books, online, classes if necessary. Good luck
 

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
BTW vacuum cleaners are big culprits in kicking a circuit. Especially if it is already loaded. The newer vacuums especially. Note the labels on them "15 amp motor will suck a tennis ball through a garden hose".
 

bigrake

Well-Known Member
I am not talking shit when I say this but you need to learn this kind of stuff. It can be a pain in the ass and daunting at times, I know, but when you can't pay an electrician to come in do these things for you you are going to have to do some of this shit yourself. Just do as much research as you can first. Books, online, classes if necessary. Good luck
Thanks a lot I really appreciate your input and am definitely going to start Trying to learn as much as I can about it.
 

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
I am not talking shit when I say this but you need to learn this kind of stuff. It can be a pain in the ass and daunting at times, I know, but when you can't pay an electrician to come in do these things for you you are going to have to do some of this shit yourself. Just do as much research as you can first. Books, online, classes if necessary. Good luck
Agreed - if it is with someone who knows. Considering the consequences. For example - install a 20-amp and it quits kicking. Great. But the problem was a wire on a series wired outlet that wasn't quite tight. Now instead of kicking the thing keeps going. Keeps heating up and arcing. Fire. In an area you aren't even in. The fix isn't always simple. You have no idea how old this house or the panel is, no idea what wire it is wired with or anything else. Has it ever been rewired? Is there an addition?
 

bigrake

Well-Known Member
Agreed - if it is with someone who knows. Considering the consequences. For example - install a 20-amp and it quits kicking. Great. But the problem was a wire on a series wired outlet that wasn't quite tight. Now instead of kicking the thing keeps going. Keeps heating up and arcing. Fire. In an area you aren't even in. The fix isn't always simple. You have no idea how old this house or the panel is, no idea what wire it is wired with or anything else. Has it ever been rewired?


I understand I was hoping it would best a easy fix and nothing to worry about but I see I have to figure something out I can't fix it. Thanks for everyone's input I really appriciate it!!
 

Eternal

Well-Known Member
You are overloading the circuit, and the breaker is dead because you have been running 14 amps on it for long periods of time.
Branch circuit breakers should only be loaded up to 80%. I assume this circuit is on a 15amp breaker so you should be trying to load it up to 12 amps. Your 1000w is going to pull 9 amps and the 600 will pull 5 amps. Running these two lights is putting you over the 80% derating, however, at 14 amps, it is probably just on the line of making the breaker trip, but it will get warmer than it is intended to and cause it to failsafe (stop working) eventually. As soon as you plug the vacuum in, you are pulling over 15 amps so it is definitely going to trip within a short order of time.
It's not going to look suspicious if you want to hire someone to replace the breaker, trust me, happens all the time.

It's easy to replace yourself, though. Will cost you much less.
Replace the breaker with the exact same model. You can't upsize it unless you upsize your wire as well.
This is very easy to do, most are push-on and worst case, it's a bolt on in which case you only need to tighten 2 screws.
TURN THE POWER TO THE ENTIRE PANEL OFF, it should have a MAIN breaker. This will allow you to touch anything in the panel, except for the wires going to the main breaker, without the possibility of being electrocuted. IMPORTANT - turning the main breaker off will kill power to the buss bars and all the branch circuit breakers in the panel, but it will not kill the power to the wires feeding the main breaker in the panel. They will still be live, and are the largest ones, at the top or bottom of the panel. usually are quite well protected from fingers slipping onto them. Just keep your hands and the panel cover away from those larger feeders. You really have to try in most panels with main breakers to touch them, as they have plastic guards, but it's important to understand that part of the panel is still live. It's the most dangerous part of the panel, in fact.

Take the cover(s) off the panel. Usually 4 screws hold an outside trim cover, then 4 more screws hold a buss bar/breaker cover. Some brands it is all one piece.
Take the old breaker out by pulling on one side, the side towards the middle of the panel, not the side the wire connects to it. You'd have to try hard to damage the panel so don't be afraid to use a little force if the breaker doesn't pop out easily. Square D and FPE panels are usually stubborn. Siemens are easier.
Disconnect the wire from the old breaker, connect it to the new breaker. Tug to make sure tight connection. Make sure only the copper is touching the screw that tightens onto the wire, you don't want any of the insulation touching the screw on the breaker.
Pop the new breaker back in. Seat the side the wire connects to first, and then push the opposite side onto the metal buss bars (you'll see the slot on the breaker where it slides in).

Don't plug the vacuum into that circuit again (make note of all the plugs without power now, that is all one circuit and shouldn;t be used to power anything else if your lights are on.)
You should really be running those lights on either a 20amp breaker with #12 wire, or split them between two 15 amp circuits, heck bring an extention cord in from another room if you need to, then with either of those 2 options you will most likely be able to run the vacuum on any circuit you want.
 

bigrake

Well-Known Member
You are overloading the circuit, and the breaker is dead because you have been running 14 amps on it for long periods of time.
Branch circuit breakers should only be loaded up to 80%. I assume this circuit is on a 15amp breaker so you should be trying to load it up to 12 amps. Your 1000w is going to pull 9 amps and the 600 will pull 5 amps. Running these two lights is putting you over the 80% derating, however, at 14 amps, it is probably just on the line of making the breaker trip, but it will get warmer than it is intended to and cause it to failsafe (stop working) eventually. As soon as you plug the vacuum in, you are pulling over 15 amps so it is definitely going to trip within a short order of time.
It's not going to look suspicious if you want to hire someone to replace the breaker, trust me, happens all the time.

It's easy to replace yourself, though. Will cost you much less.
Replace the breaker with the exact same model. You can't upsize it unless you upsize your wire as well.
This is very easy to do, most are push-on and worst case, it's a bolt on in which case you only need to tighten 2 screws.
TURN THE POWER TO THE ENTIRE PANEL OFF, it should have a MAIN breaker. This will allow you to touch anything in the panel, except for the wires going to the main breaker, without the possibility of being electrocuted. IMPORTANT - turning the main breaker off will kill power to the buss bars and all the branch circuit breakers in the panel, but it will not kill the power to the wires feeding the main breaker in the panel. They will still be live, and are the largest ones, at the top or bottom of the panel. usually are quite well protected from fingers slipping onto them. Just keep your hands and the panel cover away from those larger feeders. You really have to try in most panels with main breakers to touch them, as they have plastic guards, but it's important to understand that part of the panel is still live. It's the most dangerous part of the panel, in fact.

Take the cover(s) off the panel. Usually 4 screws hold an outside trim cover, then 4 more screws hold a buss bar/breaker cover. Some brands it is all one piece.
Take the old breaker out by pulling on one side, the side towards the middle of the panel, not the side the wire connects to it. You'd have to try hard to damage the panel so don't be afraid to use a little force if the breaker doesn't pop out easily. Square D and FPE panels are usually stubborn. Siemens are easier.
Disconnect the wire from the old breaker, connect it to the new breaker. Tug to make sure tight connection. Make sure only the copper is touching the screw that tightens onto the wire, you don't want any of the insulation touching the screw on the breaker.
Pop the new breaker back in. Seat the side the wire connects to first, and then push the opposite side onto the metal buss bars (you'll see the slot on the breaker where it slides in).

Don't plug the vacuum into that circuit again (make note of all the plugs without power now, that is all one circuit and shouldn;t be used to power anything else if your lights are on.)
You should really be running those lights on either a 20amp breaker with #12 wire, or split them between two 15 amp circuits, heck bring an extention cord in from another room if you need to, then with either of those 2 options you will most likely be able to run the vacuum on any circuit you want.
Wow thanks for the details this will really help later . I'm going to split them now that I know this. Luckily almost half the plugs are on another breaker so this helps. I appriciate the help . This almost explains it good enough to where I feel I could do it . Just scared of messing up and there's no second chance . I have someone I think can fix it. Where is the best place to buy a breaker and do you know how much they run? It's a 15 amp Siemens I think it's how its spelled. Thanks again I really appriciate it!!!
 
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