Ethics & Seeds

[King Arthur]

why not just stabilize the seeds, that way everyone gets the same plant??? i think stabilized seeds are far better than rolling the dice on f1 seeds...

Because DJ / JD either don't know how or don't have the selection size to make it happen.

 

[althor]

why not just stabilize the seeds, that way everyone gets the same plant??? i think stabilized seeds are far better than rolling the dice on f1 seeds...

THIS RIGHT HERE. Instead of all the bullshit I could have jumped right on board with this right here.
I dont want to hear how "blueberry has no pheno variance" when I have fucking grown it and I know it is all over the place. I dont want to hear how they have the original parents, when I KNOW they do not have the original parents.
If this kid would have came here with his ego in check and talked about re-working some of his fathers unstable as fuck strains, I could have jumped right on the bandwagon, but no, he acts like his shit dont stink and everything is perfect and the world OWES him, lawyers, lawsuits, patents, etc..... then why are you working on the strains if they are already perfect?

Rework those strains. Try to stabilize them. When you read the description, that is what the plant should be. If I have to go through packs to MAYBE find a blueberry muffin pheno, then wtf, thats not blueberry.

And then you want 130 bucks for a pack? That is ridiculous and you lose any credibility you may have ever tried to build over intentions. If the shit was fully stabilized 130 bucks a pack is too high. It is damned sure too high for a roll of the dice.

 

[BadInfluence]

Of course there is a difference between buying one pack of seeds for $100.00 and buying four packs for the same price. And of course each company is different, not sure how you're point there is relevant? Each and every pack of seeds I offer comes with a guarantee that you will find at least 2 phenos that equal or surpass the quality of the parents they were made from. This guarantee has been tested time and time again and stands true. Therefore, when spending $65.00 on a pack of Dj Short Blueberry seeds, there is no risk of finding your keeper pheno. Out of one 13 pack of seeds you will find your keeper pheno, in fact, you will find two.....2.68 to be precise. This eliminates the need to hunt for your pheno. So, you can spend $65.00 for one pack of seeds with two keeper pheno's (at least) or you can spend the 100.00 on four packs of seeds, hunt through them and hope you get what you're looking for. We've offered this guarantee since we've been in business, so we've never kept that a secret either.

My point was that there are plenty of seeds out there which are stable enough to make a pheno hunt unnecessary. And all the feminized seeds.... If i had to start from scratch today to make myself independent from the black market i would definitely go for fems the first time.

Are you surprised when you search for reviews on Dj's gear and find a bunch of bashing?

Not anymore. No just kidding. Before i ran into this i thought blueberry was great. A friend grew a blueberry cross a few years back and that stuff was brilliant.

I mean look at how many people make it their obvious mission to bash certain breeders and "dick-ride" another. Arthur is a shining example of this. We all know assholes yell louder and with more passion than non-assholes.

Not sure if Arthur would have gone that way if you wouldn't keep supplying him with the fuel he needs for such a quest.

Is it too much of a stretch for you to realize that anyone can pay for advertisement on this site. And that those same people that advertise on this site might also be trolling the shit out of the forums to promote their shit....? Or more appropriately, just bashing all their competitors? I mean really, you haven't thought of that? What was the term you used....? "....internet basics really...."

Of course the same people could be acting as an innocent user and promote their shit. But anyone with a bit of common sense will eventually figure out who the idiots are and who is trustworthy. Like many other users i have ad blockers installed and therefore i don't even see adverts.
And yes, internet basics. If you blindly believe what you read on some website without any further research you are an idiot.

I'm not surprised things have gone this way, greed is pretty much instinctive, especially among the culture most of us are engaging in. I'm not familiar with the sensi's story that you're allude to.

Well i don't know if there's a "Sensi story" but i think you know what i mean. In the "real world" this is not possible because Chrysler can't just come along with a car called F150. Ford even sued the shit out of Ferrari when they called their formula one car F150.

But you think I care about people using others names.....? Well, I don't. I care about other people claiming to be selling Dj gear that isn't. I care that people make boat loads of shit crosses and then associating the brand I'm working with to it.

Again, why are you worried about what other people are doing? If your gear is quality stuff then potential seed buyers will eventually learn that what you have on offer is better than the ones you're complaining about. So if i were you and i knew that my stuff is better than theirs i would be quite relaxed.

It would be one thing if company (A) released a strain called company (A's) blueberry. Unfortunately the majority of companies say it's Dj's this or Dj's that.

Well, what exactly is the problem? Are they selling seeds labeled as "DJ Short Blueberry"? In this case i would think that you can get these people to stop with some legal action thingy but i can also imagine that it could be very complicated considering the legal status in different states and countries.
If the competitors are selling seeds called something like "Bang seeds Berry Bang (DJ Short Blueberry x Wonderbang)" then i think you're out of luck. I personally have no problem with this and some breeders actually encourage others to breed with their stuff.

I care about people using a brand that I've been working hard at helping to build for almost a decade and a half and crashing that brand into the ground so they can make a few bucks. And then when I attempt to defend my brand and company against that shit I'm told I'm a greedy dick. (mostly just by the trolls, but they are good at whipping up a frenzy of hate, and we all love to have something to hate). Let me say this as simply as I can....fuck that shit. We're talking about ethics here, and this practice of making seeds in one's basement and then selling it as Sensi's Star is bullshit. It would be the same as recording a rolling stones album in your basement and then telling everyone you're Mic Jagger.

You said it - fuck that shit. Relax, don't read so much crap in forums and concentrate on your plants. You won't be able to get your way into people's heads by getting involved into angry conversations with people you will probably never meet in person. Produce quality seeds, find the right partners to sell them and make it clear that the originals are only available from the sources you established. I'm pretty sure this way you could make more out of your passion and investments.

A 4x4 closet will produce plenty of 'smokeable weed,' period. Not sure what you mean by smokeable, but....a person can produce plenty in that space. Unless their goal is to cash crop. You have to test your parent plants when making seeds, how well they produce, if they're sterile, do they have color, smell...etc. You also have to test their offspring. That's why it's called breeding and not pollen chucking. By as difficult as you make it sound it is to produce seeds, you'd think you might be a little more willing to pay for them.

Define "plenty". Many people i know can just produce what they need in a 4x4, especially if you can't keep the grow up and running all year. So i guess if you don't smoke too much and run it all year you could probably do both, produce weed and do some breeding.

 

[Jd Short]

That's not really right. now 2 pretty nice phenos sure but if you got a nice selection of keepers it will take more than 1 pack to replace 2 killer mothers but yeah if your a noob maybe. But some may not even like Blueberry, I don't love blueberries but wild ones are great for muffins though I got plenty wild ones here I pick them every year for muffins.

But nobody would say shit about the price at $65 a pack only problem is 99.9% of the world has no access to this mythical price.We still grow in non medical states I live in a med state but illegal to grow or even buy. lol

The seeds have been stabilized to the 5th filial generation. Dj believe that taking them much further than the 5th filial generation created a variance that he didn't like. I forget what he said exactly. Something about the variance becoming too limited (boring perhaps) passed the fifth filial generation. He appreciated and liked the variances offered at the fifth generation and stopped there. And the seeds are stable. I can attest to that. I got three basic phenotypic expression from my Blueberry pheno hunt. (28 females in total) I got as many as 6, maybe seven pheno's but only three main expressions. I don't actually know what qualifies as a stabilized cannabis plant. I don't actually think there is a standard yet, but "the seeds" as you say, our seeds, are stabilized enough to offer a guarantee that one will find two pheno's that equal or surpass the quality of the parent stock they were made form…. I'm no geneticist, but I'd call that stable.

 

[Jd Short]

THIS RIGHT HERE. Instead of all the bullshit I could have jumped right on board with this right here.
I dont want to hear how "blueberry has no pheno variance" when I have fucking grown it and I know it is all over the place. I dont want to hear how they have the original parents, when I KNOW they do not have the original parents.
If this kid would have came here with his ego in check and talked about re-working some of his fathers unstable as fuck strains, I could have jumped right on the bandwagon, but no, he acts like his shit dont stink and everything is perfect and the world OWES him, lawyers, lawsuits, patents, etc..... then why are you working on the strains if they are already perfect?

Rework those strains. Try to stabilize them. When you read the description, that is what the plant should be. If I have to go through packs to MAYBE find a blueberry muffin pheno, then wtf, thats not blueberry.

And then you want 130 bucks for a pack? That is ridiculous and you lose any credibility you may have ever tried to build over intentions. If the shit was fully stabilized 130 bucks a pack is too high. It is damned sure too high for a roll of the dice.

No one said Blueberry didn't have a pheno variance. Not sure what version of Blueberry you grew, but the one I grew definitely wasn't "all over the place." In regards to it's phenotypic expressions, like I said, there were only three main vibrances out of 28 females.

What do you mean by "original parents?" I think we disagree on the definition of original is all.

I'm sorry, but something tells me you were on the Dj bash-fest caboose long before
I showed up with my ego out of check.

What do you mean by why am I working on the strains if they're already perfect? I'm just using the genetic stock to mix and match genes to have new stuff to smoke. Same thing everyone else is doing. I'm a fucking pollen chucker aspiring to be a breeder, that's why I'm working with the strains…..cause they're fucking dank ass genetics to be working with.

Not sure what descriptions you're talking about, or as I said where you got your seeds, but here is the description of our Blueberry that comes on the package;



"Blueberry: A mostly induce strain (approx. 80% indica/ 20% saliva) that dates to the late 1970's. A large producer under optimum conditions, that produces dense bud with red, purple, and finally blue hues that usually cure to lavender blue. A "stretch" indica, medium-tall, with long side branches that develop heavy, sticky, trichome-laden buds sporting medium to large calyxes. The finished product has a very fruity aroma and tastes of blueberries, producing a notable and pleasantly euphoric high of the highest quality that is very long lasting a resistant to tolerance build-up, always enjoyable. Blueberry also has a long shelf-life and stores well over extended periods, a long cure enhancing the flavors and effect. Winner of 2000 High Times Cannabis Cup."



I don't want 130.00 a pack, I've stated my price point multiple times, if you don't wanna listen, there's nothing I can do. If a retailer wants to mark up their product 100%, I have no control other than to ask that retailer to lower their price, which I've actually asked people to do before, other than that….it's outta my hands.

 

[Jd Short]

My point was that there are plenty of seeds out there which are stable enough to make a pheno hunt unnecessary. And all the feminized seeds.... If i had to start from scratch today to make myself independent from the black market i would definitely go for fems the first time.



Not anymore. No just kidding. Before i ran into this i thought blueberry was great. A friend grew a blueberry cross a few years back and that stuff was brilliant.



Not sure if Arthur would have gone that way if you wouldn't keep supplying him with the fuel he needs for such a quest.



Of course the same people could be acting as an innocent user and promote their shit. But anyone with a bit of common sense will eventually figure out who the idiots are and who is trustworthy. Like many other users i have ad blockers installed and therefore i don't even see adverts.
And yes, internet basics. If you blindly believe what you read on some website without any further research you are an idiot.



Well i don't know if there's a "Sensi story" but i think you know what i mean. In the "real world" this is not possible because Chrysler can't just come along with a car called F150. Ford even sued the shit out of Ferrari when they called their formula one car F150.



Again, why are you worried about what other people are doing? If your gear is quality stuff then potential seed buyers will eventually learn that what you have on offer is better than the ones you're complaining about. So if i were you and i knew that my stuff is better than theirs i would be quite relaxed.



Well, what exactly is the problem? Are they selling seeds labeled as "DJ Short Blueberry"? In this case i would think that you can get these people to stop with some legal action thingy but i can also imagine that it could be very complicated considering the legal status in different states and countries.
If the competitors are selling seeds called something like "Bang seeds Berry Bang (DJ Short Blueberry x Wonderbang)" then i think you're out of luck. I personally have no problem with this and some breeders actually encourage others to breed with their stuff.



You said it - fuck that shit. Relax, don't read so much crap in forums and concentrate on your plants. You won't be able to get your way into people's heads by getting involved into angry conversations with people you will probably never meet in person. Produce quality seeds, find the right partners to sell them and make it clear that the originals are only available from the sources you established. I'm pretty sure this way you could make more out of your passion and investments.



Define "plenty". Many people i know can just produce what they need in a 4x4, especially if you can't keep the grow up and running all year. So i guess if you don't smoke too much and run it all year you could probably do both, produce weed and do some breeding.

Sure there are plenty of stabilized beans out there to make a pheno hunt unnecessary. Would you be so kind as to give me just a short list of those seeds? Can you name three strains that are stable enough to make this hunt unnecessary and where one could purchase them? I'd like to try some of them.

This is the real world, the only reason gene sequences and names haven't been trademarked yet is because cannabis has been persecuted and outlawed for the past century plus and anyone who's even dreamt of doing such would have been thrown in jail. But what does surprise me is the prevailing attitude that just because this plant has been illegal and a legal framework has not yet been laid that anyone who's spent decades of their life working with it is just supposed to go away and shut up while society figures out how to regulate and cash in on that persons work. That shocks the shit out of me, and actually no it doesn't. People in general are kinda lazy and greedy. But what does surprise me is the way this whole game is not only being played, but at how 'blindly' as you say people are willing to go along with the story as it's being echoed through the troll chamber that Dj is the one who's somehow ripping others off.

I'm concerned about what others are doing because they're are potentially driving my company and brand into the ground before I've even been given a chance to get it going, so I defend against it. I am however running out of time and energy for this particular conversation.

Yes, loads of people sell seeds as "Dj's this" or the "authentic Blueberry that." There is no legal action that can be taken at this time. Options are being looked into.

 

[King Arthur]

I genuinely wanted to support JD, growing up in a family of poverty I understand what it is like to max out credit cards to put food on the table and to sell something that I really loved so that I could start this mission of growing. I honestly and truly wanted to ride along side him in the journey but our personalities and views are so different on the seed subject.

I asked him various questions and instead of answering them he would come through with some stuff that makes me scratch my head. I totally shouldn't have shit all over his parade but someone has to be the good guy that does bad things every once in a while.

Like I stated a page or two ago, I am in it for the love, friendship, and what we can create TOGETHER. I am stocking up on seeds right now to pass around "free".

Also I want everyone to know that I truly forgive those on this board who have bumped me the wrong way. You are all part of the family.

 

[brimck325]

I have thousands of blueberry thia x Santa Marta that are the most blueberry smelling n tasting you'd swear I sprayed something on em. Esko was the original breeder. Imo, if this kid new what he was talking about he wouldn't be here talking bout it.

 

[bluntmassa1]

I genuinely wanted to support JD, growing up in a family of poverty I understand what it is like to max out credit cards to put food on the table and to sell something that I really loved so that I could start this mission of growing. I honestly and truly wanted to ride along side him in the journey but our personalities and views are so different on the seed subject.

I asked him various questions and instead of answering them he would come through with some stuff that makes me scratch my head. I totally shouldn't have shit all over his parade but someone has to be the good guy that does bad things every once in a while.

Like I stated a page or two ago, I am in it for the love, friendship, and what we can create TOGETHER. I am stocking up on seeds right now to pass around "free".

Also I want everyone to know that I truly forgive those on this board who have bumped me the wrong way. You are all part of the family.

Yeah, I don't know about him myself talking fairy tales about $65 per pack even though nobody can get it less than $150. I take a trip out west I'm looking for Blue Dream if DJ don't give a fuck about customers why should we give a fuck about him?

I really would rather buy a knock-off of Blueberry done right it will be a decent F6. Plus I just heard about Heath Robinson's Black Rose trying to see if I can scoop some of that shit up hopefully it aint a scam.

 

[BadInfluence]

Sure there are plenty of stabilized beans out there to make a pheno hunt unnecessary. Would you be so kind as to give me just a short list of those seeds? Can you name three strains that are stable enough to make this hunt unnecessary and where one could purchase them? I'd like to try some of them.

Well, i found a few nice feminized seeds by asking around here on the forum and a little trial and error. But you would find something negative about whatever i could recommend.

This is the real world, the only reason gene sequences and names haven't been trademarked yet is because cannabis has been persecuted and outlawed for the past century plus and anyone who's even dreamt of doing such would have been thrown in jail. But what does surprise me is the prevailing attitude that just because this plant has been illegal and a legal framework has not yet been laid that anyone who's spent decades of their life working with it is just supposed to go away and shut up while society figures out how to regulate and cash in on that persons work. That shocks the shit out of me, and actually no it doesn't. People in general are kinda lazy and greedy. But what does surprise me is the way this whole game is not only being played, but at how 'blindly' as you say people are willing to go along with the story as it's being echoed through the troll chamber that Dj is the one who's somehow ripping others off.

I'm concerned about what others are doing because they're are potentially driving my company and brand into the ground before I've even been given a chance to get it going, so I defend against it. I am however running out of time and energy for this particular conversation.

Yes, loads of people sell seeds as "Dj's this" or the "authentic Blueberry that." There is no legal action that can be taken at this time. Options are being looked into.

JD, i think here is the real reason for your bitterness... It doesn't work that way, this is Monsanto style and people in the weed community will hate you for that. Gene sequences can never trademarked because they are a work of nature. You can cross and breed and do what you want but at the end of the day you're just mixing colors and then try to sell me a new shade of blue(berry). The colors have been there before and whatever mixes you can get out, somebody else can, too. So i will pay you a fair price for your work but when i have the beans i can do with them whatever i like.

I understand that you are angry about the company but to have a successful seed business you need a bit more than a handful of more or less successful strains and crosses. Maybe you should just try something different, produce feminized seeds from a nice pheno of your blueberry or whatever. But instead you are wasting time and energy in lawyers and all this shit.
And i would love to hear what DJ has to say about all this. It is getting harder and harder to believe you're actually who you claim to be.

 

[Jd Short]

Yeah, I don't know about him myself talking fairy tales about $65 per pack even though nobody can get it less than $150. I take a trip out west I'm looking for Blue Dream if DJ don't give a fuck about customers why should we give a fuck about him?

I really would rather buy a knock-off of Blueberry done right it will be a decent F6. Plus I just heard about Heath Robinson's Black Rose trying to see if I can scoop some of that shit up hopefully it aint a scam.

Strange....anyone who can get in touch with either myself or Dj without asking us to break federal laws by mailing them can get them for that price. Whatever distribution may or may not be occurring and the mark-up on that distribution is out of my hands.

 

[Jd Short]

Well, i found a few nice feminized seeds by asking around here on the forum and a little trial and error. But you would find something negative about whatever i could recommend.



JD, i think here is the real reason for your bitterness... It doesn't work that way, this is Monsanto style and people in the weed community will hate you for that. Gene sequences can never trademarked because they are a work of nature. You can cross and breed and do what you want but at the end of the day you're just mixing colors and then try to sell me a new shade of blue(berry). The colors have been there before and whatever mixes you can get out, somebody else can, too. So i will pay you a fair price for your work but when i have the beans i can do with them whatever i like.

I understand that you are angry about the company but to have a successful seed business you need a bit more than a handful of more or less successful strains and crosses. Maybe you should just try something different, produce feminized seeds from a nice pheno of your blueberry or whatever. But instead you are wasting time and energy in lawyers and all this shit.
And i would love to hear what DJ has to say about all this. It is getting harder and harder to believe you're actually who you claim to be.

So seriously….you can't name one strain….just one stabilized strain and where to get it....ok….

Too bad if people in the same community that's made it a condonable norm of taking others work and making money off of it 'hates' me for speaking truth, can't win em all.

Sure, anyone can mix and match colors to come up with a stabilized shade, and I would expect the person who does that to be fairly compensated for their work. The colors are all on the wheel sure, but the wheel is spinning and all the colors all bled together because cannabis has been persecuted to the point of one of the most 'hybridized' gene pools around. And whoever separates those colors should be compensated fairly. Especially if everyone wants a solid color that isn't gray, but no one is willing to put in the work to create that color. Be bitter at me, that's what humans do. Realizing the boat we're in can sometimes be a shock and disturbing. If people wanna blame me for the boat we're in, it's really no skin off my nose.

I'm not wasting anytime with lawyers and shit, only wasting time entertaining the conversation. Others are using their time to line up lawyers, not me…I'm just unfortunately mixed up in the whole fray and being….'thrown under the bus' over it…again, such is life. I'll move on.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Can you name three strains that are stable enough to make this hunt unnecessary and where one could purchase them? I'd like to try some of them.

Two that I have tried recently that are very stable, almost like clones in seed form are Female Seeds C-99 and Cannabiogen Peyote Purple. Both very nice, but neither are exceptional IMO. Very homogenous though

 

[st0wandgrow]

I will say with those two that I listed above..... what you gain in uniformity, you lose in vigor. Very slow to veg, moderate to low yields, etc.

 

[bluntmassa1]

Strange....anyone who can get in touch with either myself or Dj without asking us to break federal laws by mailing them can get them for that price. Whatever distribution may or may not be occurring and the mark-up on that distribution is out of my hands.

Which is very few people.... So yeah, I'm good with DJ's shit maybe when weed is federally legal so what 10-20 years? Thankfully we all have better options Blueberry may be nice but not worth $150 with shit germination rates.

 

[althor]

Unless you are a seed vendor yourself, the price you want doesnt make it to the consumer.
If you want 65 per pack, the vendor will be selling them for 130 per pack.
Now, I understand how you can say that it is on them. Well, how is it those same vendors have tons of selections for much much cheaper? Why do you even need 65 bucks per pack? You get what, 10k seeds from a single plant? You have that much overhead and expense in your 4x4? If you dont think putting 65 bucks in your pocket for 10 seeds is ridiculous than there is nothing more to be said...
I pollinate ONE branch and end up with 100s upon 100s of seeds from the buds on ONE branch.
If I am JD, I have a 6500 dollar branch.... ONE SIDE BRANCH is worth 6500 bucks in JD Short world.

 

[Jd Short]

Which is very few people.... So yeah, I'm good with DJ's shit maybe when weed is federally legal so what 10-20 years? Thankfully we all have better options Blueberry may be nice but not worth $150 with shit germination rates.

I'll meet with anyone willing to meet with me. Excuse me for not being in control of federal and international laws and not being able to figure out how to legally get them to you in a manner that doesn't cost $150.00 I guess we can blame me and Dj for that also?

 

[bluntmassa1]

I'll meet with anyone willing to meet with me. Excuse me for not being in control of federal and international laws and not being able to figure out how to legally get them to you in a manner that doesn't cost $150.00 I guess we can blame me and Dj for that also?

You are breaking federal law by growing weed as well as selling seeds locally. Also why can I get Greenhouse seeds (they don't ship to the USA) dirt cheap like $40 a pack for some at Attitude but DJ is more like $150 a pack?? Many other breeders are pretty cheap too, Serious their better than DJ AK-47 is still winning cups, cheaper and some decent smoke in the pack I had.

 

[st0wandgrow]

I'll meet with anyone willing to meet with me. Excuse me for not being in control of federal and international laws and not being able to figure out how to legally get them to you in a manner that doesn't cost $150.00 I guess we can blame me and Dj for that also?

JD, I'm pretty close to Ohm of Medicine in Ann Arbor. Any idea how much they charge for a pack of your seeds?

Edit: Just looked it up. $100 per pack

 

[Beemo]

JD just stop... let it go...
you will NEVER get your point across with these guys about pricing...theres no reasoning,, its the same group of people... its fun to them
if theres any breeder that sell there stuff for more than 100, you'll know it here on riu