Why have the gods forsaken us? Massive auto defoliation going on

[Chester da Horse]

Help please !!!

Something has gone very wrong over the course of 72 hours... all older fan leaves have yellowed and dropped off.





Grow details are meticulously noted in my journal (linked).

I included two pictures of happier plants so I don't feel like crying so much

 

[Bublonichronic]

Looks kinda like a N def.

 

[Chester da Horse]

Looks kinda like a N def.

Last reservoir was mixed with approximately 0.6EC of Calcium Nitrate, total strength of about EC1.4 + some organic 1-9-1 liquid guano.

This is almost the highest nitrogen ratio they have had all grow - they got through stretch with green fan leaves throughout, so I don't expect N deficiency.

Could too small pots and root bounding cause this?

 

[Kind Sir]

@justugh Hey bro this guys got a good question.

 

[Chester da Horse]

Additional details
5 weeks into 12/12, from seed after 5 weeks veg
media - perlite/vermiculite (50:50) being bottom fed,
in 1.5gal squat 10" pots

nutes:
generic 5-1-5 A/B solutions (Ca-Nitrate EC0.61/ Phos-K-trace EC 0.71)
+ fulvic acid + seasol (liquid kelp extract)
+ H2O2 (at 50% strength x 0.2mL/L)
+ liquid guano 1-9-1 at 5.5mL/L,
pH in always adjusted with phosphoric acid to below 6.0

environment:
canopy temps 20.5-26.5C (69-80F)
fresh air intake with 6" booster fan temperatures 14-17C
RH 45-55% pinned with dehumidifier
aircooled hood with carbon scrubber for extraction via 220cfm 6" fan
oscillating fan through canopy

Action taken:
-feed line and filter/valves removed and flushed
-7.5L of dilute bloom nute solution flushed through pots,
-initial run off from flush pH tested high (6.5-7.0)
-top fed with 500mL of 10-2-6 fish emulsion at 50% of recommended application rate for annuals.

 

[Chester da Horse]

A picture of the cave, some bud shots showing latest development, and the batch of leaves that were defoliated;
(another batch the same size was burnt 2 days ago)


A few of my other threads which show problems along the way on this grow (its my first, and I am sometimes silly)
https://www.rollitup.org/t/aact-fish-emulsion-foliar-in-wk2-flower.866226/
https://www.rollitup.org/t/healthy-vigor-or-deficiency.866480/
https://www.rollitup.org/t/3-wk-old...d-dying-older-leaf-tips.863209/#post-11390550

 

[justugh]

@justugh Hey bro this guys got a good question.

kk see what i can help with

Additional details
5 weeks into 12/12, from seed after 5 weeks veg
media - perlite/vermiculite (50:50) being bottom fed,
in 1.5gal squat 10" pots
nutes:
generic 5-1-5 A/B solutions (Ca-Nitrate EC0.61/ Phos-K-trace EC 0.71)
+ fulvic acid + seasol (liquid kelp extract)
+ H2O2 (at 50% strength x 0.2mL/L)
+ liquid guano 1-9-1 at 5.5mL/L,
pH in always adjusted with phosphoric acid to below 6.0

environment:
canopy temps 20.5-26.5C (69-80F)
fresh air intake with 6" booster fan temperatures 14-17C
RH 45-55% pinned with dehumidifier
aircooled hood with carbon scrubber for extraction via 220cfm 6" fan
oscillating fan through canopy

Action taken:
-feed line and filter/valves removed and flushed
-7.5L of dilute bloom nute solution flushed through pots,
-initial run off from flush pH tested high (6.5-7.0)
-top fed with 500mL of 10-2-6 fish emulsion at 50% of recommended application rate for annuals.

hey man .......u said the plant 10 weeks old 5 weeks flower 5 weeks veggie ......and it is a auto flowering strain

if this is true then the yellowing up is natural for the plant as it is dying off ..........u coming to the end of the genetics of the plant ........the yellowing started at the bottom with the older leaves and moved up to the middle and then to the top

this is the plant pulling in all the goodies from the leaves in last ditch effort to make self stinky to get some male pollen on it from bugs or animals

 

[Chester da Horse]

kk see what i can help with

thanks for answering the call!

photoperiod bro, not auto. in the thread title I'm like 'they are defoliating themselves automatically', I didn't mean I am growing an auto strain. my bad

I don't want them to die so young! They have 25 days left according to mandalseeds flower period

 

[justugh]

thanks for answering the call!

photoperiod bro, not auto. in the thread title I'm like 'they are defoliating themselves automatically', I didn't mean I am growing an auto strain. my bad

I don't want them to die so young! They have 25 days left according to mandalseeds flower period

ok first off any time they tell u are for pro dialed in grows ( for noob novices and intermediate our times can flux since everything it not dialed in )

ok photo
1 u need to know the PH of the soil (the micros in the soil can be out wack) if the ph is off then u know the micros are not converting/helping intake .....most common trouble

if it is not PH issues then it could be pour intake from to much watering it slows the N intake
u need to let the planter dry out one time u know leaves droop from needing water
add in N from your grow (start at 1/2 power what u original stopped at ) ........for good measure i would resupply the micros and hit the plant with some b-52


i use several product lines for this
http://www.amazon.com/ADVANCED-NUTRIENTS-FABULOUS-4-PAK/dp/B00F4670VC
that is micros .......all the ones u will need add 10mls of each to the feed with the N (u can use these in the just water waterings)
http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Nutrients-Fertilizer-Booster-1-Liter/dp/B00DCY257C
this is b52 ......it helps the plant when it is stressed like vit C for u during a cold

 

[cannabisdreams]

If you switched right to bloom nutes as soon as you flipped the lights, they probably need more nitrogen. Seems like the experienced growers continue to give veg nutes well into the first month of flower. I guess it depends on how long you have to go.. looks like a few weeks at least so, I would give them more nitrogen. if you were only a week or two from flush, I'd say dont worry about it. I'd hate to see those buds not fill out all the way, it looks like you've worked so hard! Great job getting this far!

 

[justugh]

to do the soil is simple
get enough water (depends on your pots and water retention ) .......u want to add in water phed to 6.5 ......then capture the water running out the bottom and test is

if the test water is lower then 6.5 your soil off and u need to flush it to get back to 6.5 (then re add micros to stablize it and hold 6.5 )
u are using organics and chemicals correct

 

[justugh]

and the guy is right
when the plant flips u want to do 50/50 grow bloom for atleast the a month then when the plant stops all streching u knock it down to 75% bloom and 25% grow then move all to bloom about the 5th 6th week then 8th week add in some N for the resin production

 

[justugh]

@Chester da Horse

just know the plant will not regreen ........it will stop yellowing up but it takes 2-4 days for u to see a effect.........if the leave is really yellow and removeing it would open and allow light into the lower sections where the bud leaves are green and perky ....go ahead and remove that yellow fan leaf

 

[Chester da Horse]

aight! thanks for the comments ppl

pH of first run off was 6.5-7.0 with input of pH6.0
perlite/vermiculite probably doesn't maintain much of a microbioherd, i've been running low dose H2O2 (2mLx50%/10L) to keep things sterile even
plants are fed by a flood tray under a time locked gravity fed valve, bases of pots are now only 5mm submerged allowing wicking to draw water to the roots. root rot is a possibility, but overwatering hopefully not.

I don't run veg/bloom nutes per se, just twiddle with the A/B nutrient parts myself and add 1-9-1 guano for P.

Please, I know its all TL;DR, but I have tried to keep on top of the things you guys are mentioning, but its all out of whack!

 

[Chester da Horse]

@churchhaze @uncleben; I stopped giving them silica and look what happened!!!

'll take support from all comers... this is freaking me out

 

[churchhaze]

There's no such thing as silicon deficiency... Stop changing wikipedia back to being inaccurate! I thought I fixed it!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_nutrition#Silicon

"Silicon is not considered an essential element for plant growth and development."

Stop vandalizing Wikipedia you hooligans!

 

[churchhaze]

My guess is you're using too much calcium, which is blocking out Mg++ and K+ and reducing P availability. Maybe try decreasing the amount of calcium nitrate. You say it happened when you stopped feeding the silicon, which means you decreased the K:Ca ratio. (since the silicon most likely came from potassium silicate, right?)

That being said, I don't like to play guessing games. I just use a formula/recipe that works, and that prevents me from having to track down issues.

 

[Chester da Horse]

Never used soluble potassium silicate. I sprinkled volcanic (basalt?) Rock dust into the aact's and media of g4

 

[justugh]

aight! thanks for the comments ppl

pH of first run off was 6.5-7.0 with input of pH6.0
perlite/vermiculite probably doesn't maintain much of a microbioherd, i've been running low dose H2O2 (2mLx50%/10L) to keep things sterile even
plants are fed by a flood tray under a time locked gravity fed valve, bases of pots are now only 5mm submerged allowing wicking to draw water to the roots. root rot is a possibility, but overwatering hopefully not.

I don't run veg/bloom nutes per se, just twiddle with the A/B nutrient parts myself and add 1-9-1 guano for P.

Please, I know its all TL;DR, but I have tried to keep on top of the things you guys are mentioning, but its all out of whack!

well u answered the why ...........part a and part b are grow with micro and flower with micro
your feed in the system is out of wack with the flood tray ........micros are 100% needed(the little bastards do so much work for u even in DWC i use them) .........order that kit i linked u ...add in some more A to the mix

and only use the H202 once a week when u clean out the water and change it over ....then add the micros in the water mix

 

[Chester da Horse]

@churchyard "stop vandalizing Wikipedia you hooligans!"

Never edited wiki in my life. Get with the science bro

This is what I used for silica. It's generally good stuff for trace elements