cowboylogic
Well-Known Member
he sure is digging himself a deep bunker. So deep in fact I can no longer hear his senseless dribble....Peace out fellers.......
220v or 110v ballast ?
- Thread starter Tragic420
- Start date
wiseguy316
Well-Known Member
You didn't make anyone look stupid except yourself.
Lord Dangly Bits
Well-Known Member
Dude, you have zero understanding about the subject of Wattage and Power. What matters on your stupid 110 motor verses 220 motor is the Horse Power. They can make a 110 Motor have just as much Horse power as the 220. BUT!!! The cost of the 110 motor would be much higher, as would be the need for LARGER breakers and Heavier gauged wireing. Do you not understand this simple thing?
All that 220 Volt is, is (2) 110 volt lines with a Neutral. You really should try to understand these things for real, before you start telling people how wrong they are. By they way. I do Structural and Electrical inspections for an Engineering firm.
But lets look at this from Abudtokr's side. I know of 100's of electricians that think this same way. This is why they are electricians and not Electrical Engineers or designer's. Electricians only know how to follow Prints and Specs, and have minimal knowledge of how to really design a system. I would bet money that when they were building that conveyor system you speak of, in the specs for it, it said they could use 110 volt or 220 volt motors, just as long as the breakers and wireing were upgraded for the 110 volt motor and that the Horse power was the same.
hiddenidentity
Member
Im pretty sure abudtokr is just trolling... I hope he is really not that dumb. Even a dumb person would realize he is wrong after EVERYONE dis-agrees with him.
220V does not use less POWER than a 120v rig, it uses less amps. SAME POWER!!
Watts=Volts x amps
400watts =220V x 1.82 Amps
400 watts =110V x 3.64 Amps
Go look at your power bill you get charged for the watts used, not the amps. a 220v ballast uses the same amount of power as a 120v ballast, they cost EXACTLY the same amount to run.
A 400 watt bulb uses 400 watts no matter whether its 110volt, 120volt, 220volt, 240volt. ITS A 400 WATT LIGHT!!!!!
Watts=Volts x amps
400watts =220V x 1.82 Amps
400 watts =110V x 3.64 Amps
Go look at your power bill you get charged for the watts used, not the amps. a 220v ballast uses the same amount of power as a 120v ballast, they cost EXACTLY the same amount to run.
A 400 watt bulb uses 400 watts no matter whether its 110volt, 120volt, 220volt, 240volt. ITS A 400 WATT LIGHT!!!!!
Put it this way, I will be able to run more lights then you would if your running 110 keep adding lights to your 110 and tell me what will happen yours will dim down. Throw a grinder in the mix and fire that up and start grinding on a chunk of metal. You will pop your 110 b4 my 220. The more you add the less lighting you will have! So again I will be able to do more work then you would with 220 then 110. Your right your power bill will be the same im not disputing that. Im telling you that your going to save money using 220 just for the simple fact you can do more work with 220. You only can pull so much from 110 b4 it wont pull no more. Faster I get the job done the more money I make. Hook 25 1000watt bulbs to 110 and the same to 220 and whos lights will be brighter??????
Lord Dangly Bits
Well-Known Member
You will get the same Brightness and Work done if you spent the money to set up the 110 volt system to handle it in the first place. Stop being a butt nudget and changing what you are saying.
Higher Amps causes more heat. With 220 you can get away with small gauged wires and still not catch fire. This thread was started asking about if 220 saved electricity, and your first comment says it does. So stop back paddleing and suck it up and admit you are wrong.
wiseguy316
Well-Known Member
that is a different debate, it is easier to run larger things on 220. rep for being man enough to admit you were wrong.
Dennis Stein
Active Member
"well sense i have no 220 outlet where my grow is then i guess im stickin to 110". Can't you read Tragic420...go with the 220v and save yourself the headaches. If you can't afford an electrician, than just admit you're a broke cracker. Cost me $80.00 to have a 220v solatel timer put in wired to a new breaker. If you're sticking to 120, than just watch how many amps your pulling off your breaker.
ilikecheetoes
Well-Known Member
well since this thread was so fun... I thought I would add one more thing. 220v ballasts dont sell as quickly on craigslist.... So my plants will grow faster at 220. no wait, just pull dirt faster. LOL
Seriously though I'm about to pull cable because I keep popping my 20amp 110v breaker on 1.5 1000watt ballasts (one is running at 50%). So was trying to decide on one 220 run or 2 110s. I decided its easier to buy and sell and move 110v stuff. I move locations and i know for a fact there will be a 110 plug. might not be a 220. Since we use mainly gas here even homes dont usually have 220 since the heater/oven/dryer all run on gas no need.
Seriously though I'm about to pull cable because I keep popping my 20amp 110v breaker on 1.5 1000watt ballasts (one is running at 50%). So was trying to decide on one 220 run or 2 110s. I decided its easier to buy and sell and move 110v stuff. I move locations and i know for a fact there will be a 110 plug. might not be a 220. Since we use mainly gas here even homes dont usually have 220 since the heater/oven/dryer all run on gas no need.
N00b_Farmer
Active Member
Graduating next semester in chemical engineering with a minor in electrical engineering. I think @abudtokr is trolling. I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge that watts are the unit of power. Amps are the units of current. You're not billed by current used (or saved). Your electric bill reflects WATTS consumed.
hondagrower420
Well-Known Member
way to bring back a dead thread. No one questions efficiency is this thread. Guy was dead nuts wrong.
he was using varying wattage in his example.
I understand what he was trying to say.
my 220v (5000 watt) motor will crush you 110v (1000 watt motor).
the 220v is superior not because of ohms law but because it can handle a larger loads (thicker cable and bigger breakers).
so most 220v circuits are protected by 60amp breaker. Whereas 110v circuits are 15amp.
220v x 60a = 13,200w
110v x 15a = 1,650w
meaning you can run a total of lets just say 10 1000w ballast (considering efficiency lose) off 1 200v circuit whereas you could only run 1 1000w ballast on a 100v circuit
I'm mecp certified. That's a 12v electrician.
he was using varying wattage in his example.
I understand what he was trying to say.
my 220v (5000 watt) motor will crush you 110v (1000 watt motor).
the 220v is superior not because of ohms law but because it can handle a larger loads (thicker cable and bigger breakers).
so most 220v circuits are protected by 60amp breaker. Whereas 110v circuits are 15amp.
220v x 60a = 13,200w
110v x 15a = 1,650w
meaning you can run a total of lets just say 10 1000w ballast (considering efficiency lose) off 1 200v circuit whereas you could only run 1 1000w ballast on a 100v circuit
I'm mecp certified. That's a 12v electrician.
ButchyBoy
Well-Known Member
Well that was fun to read!!! I will add this to the post. It might help to explain the subject more...
In the US (and probably most other places too), you get billed for energy used. Watts are Watts, whether you consume 1.1 kW by drawing 10 A from 110 V or 5 A from 220 V makes no difference to how much power you use or what you are charged.
Your house is run from a center-tapped transformer secondary. Across the ends, this secondary produces 220 V. That means from the center tap to each end is 110 V. All three wires are run into your house on big fat cables. The center tap is grounded close to where it enters the house, which should also be close to the breaker panel. This becomes the neutral for the 110 V circuits. The other side for all 110 V circuits is one of the secondary ends, which are switched by the breakers. 220 V circuits, like for a electric dryer, water heater, or range, will be across the two ends with a breaker that can disconnect each end. While there are two breakers for such circuits, they will be ganged together in a single unit. Sometimes this is obvious as they look like two breakers with a bar across the two switches so that they are always turned on or off together. If one pops, it will also turn off the other.
The reason for going into all this detail is so that you can understand the difference between 110 V and 220 V circuits. Both are fed by the same transformer secondary. The primary can't tell which of the two halves of the secondary the power was drawn from, or if it was drawn as 220 V by using both together.
There is one advantage to 220 V circuits, which is why they exist at all. With 220 V you only need half the current to get the same power as with 110 V. Normally that doesn't matter much. But, with high power appliances the current required at 110 V would require the wires to be uneconomically thick.
At really high currents, you might actually notice the power lost in the wires between the breaker panel and the appliance. Those wires have some finite resistance, and the power lost in them goes with the square of the current thru them. Therefore, appliances that require high current not only require expensive and thick wires, but cause more waste in those wires. This is why for high current devices only, you go through the trouble of using 220 V. That requires half the current, and therefore would cause 1/4 of the power dissipation in wires of the same size.
In most installations however, wires are sized by the current they carry, regardless of the open-circuit voltage at the end. The limiting factor is the amount of heat a wire is allowed to dissipate per unit length. The electrical code specifies the maximum current for each wire gauge, based on all those factors and with a considerable amount of margin built in. You don't houses almost catching fire at full load. For example #10 copper wire is rated for 30 A if I remember right. So in reality, 220 V circuits allow for thinner wire, which costs less and is easier to work with.
So technically, devices that run from a higher voltage cause less wasted power in the wires. That could be the basis of the claim that 220 V device cost less to operate, but it's far fetched. The power lost in the wires is a tiny fraction of the power used by the device, so this is at best a very small advantage. There are other advantages to using a lower voltage like 110 V. This is why most things in America run from 110 V except that need unusually high power.
In the US (and probably most other places too), you get billed for energy used. Watts are Watts, whether you consume 1.1 kW by drawing 10 A from 110 V or 5 A from 220 V makes no difference to how much power you use or what you are charged.
Your house is run from a center-tapped transformer secondary. Across the ends, this secondary produces 220 V. That means from the center tap to each end is 110 V. All three wires are run into your house on big fat cables. The center tap is grounded close to where it enters the house, which should also be close to the breaker panel. This becomes the neutral for the 110 V circuits. The other side for all 110 V circuits is one of the secondary ends, which are switched by the breakers. 220 V circuits, like for a electric dryer, water heater, or range, will be across the two ends with a breaker that can disconnect each end. While there are two breakers for such circuits, they will be ganged together in a single unit. Sometimes this is obvious as they look like two breakers with a bar across the two switches so that they are always turned on or off together. If one pops, it will also turn off the other.
The reason for going into all this detail is so that you can understand the difference between 110 V and 220 V circuits. Both are fed by the same transformer secondary. The primary can't tell which of the two halves of the secondary the power was drawn from, or if it was drawn as 220 V by using both together.
There is one advantage to 220 V circuits, which is why they exist at all. With 220 V you only need half the current to get the same power as with 110 V. Normally that doesn't matter much. But, with high power appliances the current required at 110 V would require the wires to be uneconomically thick.
At really high currents, you might actually notice the power lost in the wires between the breaker panel and the appliance. Those wires have some finite resistance, and the power lost in them goes with the square of the current thru them. Therefore, appliances that require high current not only require expensive and thick wires, but cause more waste in those wires. This is why for high current devices only, you go through the trouble of using 220 V. That requires half the current, and therefore would cause 1/4 of the power dissipation in wires of the same size.
In most installations however, wires are sized by the current they carry, regardless of the open-circuit voltage at the end. The limiting factor is the amount of heat a wire is allowed to dissipate per unit length. The electrical code specifies the maximum current for each wire gauge, based on all those factors and with a considerable amount of margin built in. You don't houses almost catching fire at full load. For example #10 copper wire is rated for 30 A if I remember right. So in reality, 220 V circuits allow for thinner wire, which costs less and is easier to work with.
So technically, devices that run from a higher voltage cause less wasted power in the wires. That could be the basis of the claim that 220 V device cost less to operate, but it's far fetched. The power lost in the wires is a tiny fraction of the power used by the device, so this is at best a very small advantage. There are other advantages to using a lower voltage like 110 V. This is why most things in America run from 110 V except that need unusually high power.
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Flagg420
Well-Known Member
While Butch is pretty much dead on.... he is obviously American...
Its American nature to think "We do it, it must be the best way" That last bit on the post can be ignored, or have the words "In the U.S." added....|
No other country thinks they need to play with the voltages so much, they just use the 220 thru the whole home...
Its American nature to think "We do it, it must be the best way" That last bit on the post can be ignored, or have the words "In the U.S." added....|
No other country thinks they need to play with the voltages so much, they just use the 220 thru the whole home...
WeedFreak78
Well-Known Member
I do find it disturbing that things people personally did , even 50yrs ago, oil changes, tire swaps, home repair,electrical plumbing, yard care, is slowly going away. People rely too much on other peoples expertise rather than learning how to do it themselves. My grandfather would have never considered paying someone to do something that every guy, even most of the women at that time, in his neighborhood was perfectly capable of doing themselves. Self reliance is a thing of the past for most, and being regulated out by governments. If i get caught doing wiring/pluming to my house, i get fined until i pull a permit retroactively and get it inspected. We got fined because we expanded a rotted out collapsing back deck from 6'x6' to 15'x12' without a permit...I got a bad attitude according to some people, if i own the land/property/etc, I'm going to do as i damn well please.
That had nothing to do with any of this..sorry..
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