Defoliation Experiment - Side by Side Sister Clones

[chuck estevez]

I guess people just don't get sarcasm, the post about hating polar bears clearly went over some heads. I was agreeing with Su in a sarcastic way hoping that he'd give everyone here a break and take his goonies with him, that clearly didn't work!

I haven't changed my original view that defoliation doesn't have to make any difference to vegging time, if you veg for 4 weeks normally then you just veg for 2 weeks then defoliate then veg for another 2 weeks. It totals 4 weeks now matter how you want to count it!! Please explain to me how how that takes any more time or money??

Why is it that every time I ask for some real evidence for the argument against it just doesn't happen, I can't believe there is nothing about it on the internet. No stickies about how defoliation doesn't work, no educational lessons about how it extends your vegging time, no stories of actual failures, no side by side experiments, it all seems to be what my mate told me and the general consensus and nothing with a concrete foundation.

@Hue I don't feel that I have any wounds, only factual evidence will hurt me. When you get called names then you've generally won the argument. I'm still stinging like a butterfly and floating like a bee, or something like that anyway! lol

LMFAO>>AGAIN

• No, I called people who cannot hold or allow others to hold a rational debate imbeciles.​
  
  
  
  

 

[UncleReemis]

LMFAO>>AGAIN

• No, I called people who cannot hold or allow others to hold a rational debate imbeciles.​
  
  

Maybe he was referring to ^su calling him a dumbass or something xD

 

[chuck estevez]

Dear Profterpen,

I really do believe that you are wasting your time here, these morons are just going to keep on and on with no let up just because they don’t understand something. You will never teach them anything, and they are not interested in learning and never will be. They will just keep trolling this thread until everyone gives up or the thread is locked because it turns into a slanging match. You would be better off trying to convert some muslims to becoming Christians, it would be much easier!

There is a saying that if you give a monkey a typewriter he will type a few thousand posts on a forum with no real meaning, and then claim this makes him an expert and knowledgeable about his ramblings. You’ll probably find these guys are juveniles still living at home with their parents, or are older and carrying some other form of insecurities like small man syndrome, and who have nothing better to do until their closet grow of one plant finishes.

They feel it’s their god given right to just trample on and ruin anything to do with the subject of defoliation, and were clearly brought up with no manners or any idea of how to interact with other people on a social level.

RIU is the wrong place for a discussion about defoliation as they seem stuck in the good old days, so I say let them continue their growing in soil by gas lantern and swimming in their sea of ignorance.

I was really hoping that we may actually be able to hold a discussion about defoliation and the different techniques and what works better than others, but this will never happen here. It would have been nice to chat with someone who understands the scientific principles behind what happens when defoliating, and to be able to share my findings with you and others that use this technique successfully. I think there are a lot of other people on this forum who feel the same way, but don’t speak up because they will just be attacked by these imbeciles.

All you are doing is feeding them, and they will clock up another thousand posts by the end of your experiment if the thread lasts that long. If the outcome of the experiment doesn’t go their way then they will say you cheated or some other variable was not the same, or that your one experiment doesn't prove anything blah blah blah!!

Maybe, but Maybe he is just an idiot who contradicts himself every other post.

 

[natro.hydro]

[video=youtube;xYq7CuVpAeo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYq7CuVpAeo[/video]

You must not be looking very hard neo, not jumping on your jock, but it is out there. And would consider this guy to be pretty reputable... depending on who you are of course, everyones got haters.

 

[UncleReemis]

I agree with Cervantes. But mainly from experience. My partner for my first grow straight up butchered all of our plants multiple times throughout the grow and it definitely impacted the final result. BUT, I'm talking about butchering. Not defoliating. Two different things IMO; defoliating is meant to be very subjective and condition dependent.

Should I defoliate this leaf? well, what is the CONDITION of the leaf? <-- that is my thought process when I debate

 

[chuck estevez]

what the hell,, https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog51-truth-about-removing-fan-leaves.html

http://www.marijuanagrowing.eu/indoor-growing/not-prune-your-plants-t33788.html
and here is Ed's take http://www.cannabis.info/UK/library/8078-ask-ed/
this high times article is FOR defoliating, But only after the 4th week of flower,http://www.hightimes.com/read/30-more-yield-indoor-pot-grow-advice


Kind of a big fuck you,heh NEo?

 

[natro.hydro]

My problem Unc is that there is no general consensus for what defoliating is. I hadn't heard of growweedeasy.com till this thread, and if you go by that guide then you are practically butchering. Be lieing if I had said I tried it, thinking about doing it to ONE plant once I up my plant count at the end of the summer and can properly compare it with 2 cloned plants.

 

[neo12345]

You must not be looking very hard neo, not jumping on your jock, but it is out there. And would consider this guy to be pretty reputable... depending on who you are of course, everyones got haters.

I agree with him that if you just pulled the leaves off that far in to flower, and the plant had not be defoliated before in it's lifetime then it would stunt the growth.

The video is only really his opinion though he did mention quite strongly that it was scientific facts that his opinion was based on, but there was no link to these facts. It's these holy grail scientific facts that i'm after?

 

[TexasHank]

So, did the OP come to a conclusion?

 

[UncleReemis]

My problem Unc is that there is no general consensus for what defoliating is. I hadn't heard of growweedeasy.com till this thread, and if you go by that guide then you are practically butchering. Be lieing if I had said I tried it, thinking about doing it to ONE plant once I up my plant count at the end of the summer and can properly compare it with 2 cloned plants.

Just took another look at the before and after pics from there. When I say butchering, I'm talking about a couple, if ANY fan leaves remaining. What my partner did was much more extreme than growweedeasy.com's guide. Which says a lot because even theirs is extreme in my book.

 

[chuck estevez]

I agree with him that if you just pulled the leaves off that far in to flower, and the plant had not be defoliated before in it's lifetime then it would stunt the growth.

The video is only really his opinion though he did mention quite strongly that it was scientific facts that his opinion was based on, but there was no link to these facts. It's these holy grail scientific facts that i'm after?

http://www.hightimes.com/read/30-more-yield-indoor-pot-grow-advice


Also note that plucking one or two leaves off in veg to open up the canopy isn&#8217;t a bad idea either; but save the major pull for after all the budding sites have formed.

 

[TexasHank]

From watching many defol and trying it a little myself.. I see a consistent tighter node spacing on the plants..

I do not believe this necessarily translates to "good" or "better" but I could see defol used as a training method.

Me personally, I don't pull off the leaves.. I have found many different ways to train plants and get the results I want. I see defol as a technique that is harmful to the plant.. slowing growth.. exposing the plant to pests and disease.. etc. Different genetics will react differently to the technique.. Some will be harmed more than others..

On top of that.. The altered growth that comes from defol is not desirable to me with my style of growing.

Increased airflow and light penetration was never a need in my garden either.. adequate airflow and light is easily achieved with planning and a little experience..
imo, defol is an unideal solution to those two problems.. problems that are easily remedied in ways that do not slow growth or open the plants up to pest and disease attacks.

 

[fr3d12]

I don't know the pro's and con's of defoliating and personally I don't do it because most of my plants have turned out just fine with the leaves on but I think if I was going to do the experiment I would do it outdoor side by side.
I'm sure as with the indoor experiment that has been done also.

 

[TexasHank]

I believe the problem with this argument is that people often think small.. for both sides of the argument..
When you compare your previous crop to your just harvested crop and see a 30% increase in yield... that DOES NOT mean that you have proven that defol produces 30% more buds..

It just means that you grew 30% more than your last crop by switching things up.. another person could probably harvest even more than your defol crop w/o defol...

All the same.. you could see a 30% loss with defol.. doesn't prove anything except that you harvested less than your last crop..

the universe is infinite.. your mind CAN be as well.. if you let it.

 

[UncleReemis]

A few of us here intend on doing outdoor experiments this season. But that's always subject to change. It's on my agenda, but you never know what will happen. I wont be growing them large, meaning I will be planting the clones midway through the season to give them less veg time.

 

[joe macclennan]

Just a few questions for you, anyone actually feel free to chime in? Is there any stickies on defol? Any books that are published showing defol is better than other training/ growing methods? I am very confident that the findings will prove my hypothesis correct, if defol was as popular as you guys make it out to be how come there is no educational information on it? Just sayin....

there are not. That i'm aware of. In another one of these threads a few weeks back I challenged a member to put forth some sort of accredited study and the closest thing he could come up with was on highland grassland pastures. And even the results for it were not conclusive. he presented no incontrovertible evidence to support defoliating

I have not seen any research on the topic that has been presented in the context of a controlled experiment. That is why this thread interests me. I share your hypothesis but do not see the need to taunt.

except neo...he deserves it a bit.

Started as Bunnyfather, wife and I had 5 kids in a short time frame. Anyway buddies started calling me it as a joke, 20 years later most of my friends only know me as Bunny.

They call me Bunny

lol..waddup bunny

As a kid Chuck made his dad go to his room.

They call me Bunny

lol

By the looks of it, you got mauled for a few pages. I'm not saying you're wrong I rather enjoyed reading it all while I was crafting wool bandages for the hurt butts.


I am offended at everyone's lack of interest in MY life;
do you people even care that I had a hangnail for most of today?
Shit is serious.

I care...how is the hangnail?

did you rip it off? does it still hurt?

 

[Cascadian]

Agree, that the defoliated plants will likely slow down and grow slower as they re-veg. That is not the point of contention here one way or the other... The test is what the ultimate outcome is, higher yield or not... simple. All plants need to receive the same amount of light/lumens or it cannot possibly settle any dispute IMO. We can go around and around about how to measure lumens, of that I have no doubt. This experiment will be a troll battle to the end IMO, How about any difference in density of buds and how fast they will dry? Will people end up arguing about the RH of the end cured product? I think they will... As honest as this experiment might be there will be naysayers or doubters guaranteed...

I just want to see an honest attempt to objectively look at the merits of defoliation, no matter what it will not be perfect... Let the chips fall where they may...

 

[JesterDev]

Not trying to add to the invasion of arguments here, but I'm doing some plants as an experiment myself. I'm a bit further along but still. This is my Dinemfem cheese. Mind you she is a tough one. You can practically burn the damn thing and it will come back at full force. I have also done this with my Lemon Haze and she is just fine also. These are smaller plants also, but still.

This image is from a yesterday and she is currently at 4 weeks of flowering. I tried this after I had already lolly popped her, but I figured what the hell, I have plenty of others. Now I've never done this before, but I normally pull about 3-4oz off slightly larger plants, she is my runt. Anyway, so far so good on both. Had a lemon haze hermie on my last summer outdoors and she is more sensitive.

Anyway, I'm on the fence about all this too, but I want to come to my own conclusions. Just throwing this out there, take it for what it's worth.

 

[joe macclennan]

Agree, that the defoliated plants will likely slow down and grow slower as they re-veg. That is not the point of contention here one way or the other... The test is what the ultimate outcome is, higher yield or not... simple. All plants need to receive the same amount of light/lumens or it cannot possibly settle any dispute IMO. We can go around and around about how to measure lumens, of that I have no doubt. This experiment will be a troll battle to the end IMO, How about any difference in density of buds and how fast they will dry? Will people end up arguing about the RH of the end cured product? I think they will... As honest as this experiment might be there will be naysayers or doubters guaranteed...

I just want to see an honest attempt to objectively look at the merits of defoliation, no matter what it will not be perfect... Let the chips fall where they may...

this was su's point earlier. The thing you are missing is volume....Not just area. with a larger plant as the control will be the lumens wil be stretched more thin and penetration will wane.

we know this. So like I suggested...put one of each. One level bottom and one level top. If you don't care to look at the results to the level bottom that's up to you. I for one would like to see the results for both.

I still believe the biggest question at the moment is how to decide when to flower? and will the flowering cycles be staggered or not. Making the unfucked plants wait until the fucked plants are ready would be to put them at a disadvantage. If allowed to veg too long the unfucked plants will start to lose if no side lighting is added.

from what i've seen when flowering indoors with no side or supplemental lighting roughly 4 sq. ft is about right for full flower

so my question how is op going to deal with the size difference ?


edit: @ jesterdav....your plant looks sad bro

 

[JesterDev]

edit: @ jesterdav....your plant looks sad bro

I agree actually.. they look much happier and well... more beautiful full of leaves! But she is producing quite well. Even the normally pop corn buds are larger. I personally think that removing some leaves, or even more than I normally would, would be a good thing, but removing this amount, just looks crappy. But so far it's just a look really.. Trust me it was not easy doing this, I didn't like it, but I needed to know for myself.