Lighting questions.. Considering LED over hps/mh combo

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
i want to mix them all so its like the sun. this indoor lighting thing is pain in the ass. when i buy a new house gonna be in country and no neighbors so i can grow my shit outdoors again. but this time i want trees. so ill have to first start them indoors since i dont live in a place with enough sun for a 8 month grow.
 

monkeychief

Well-Known Member
i want to mix them all so its like the sun. this indoor lighting thing is pain in the ass. when i buy a new house gonna be in country and no neighbors so i can grow my shit outdoors again. but this time i want trees. so ill have to first start them indoors since i dont live in a place with enough sun for a 8 month grow.
You're on the right track, sir. Nothing like the sun as this is why A51 wnt all 3700k warm whites which is closer to sunlight, which is around 5800k. The 3700k peaks more in the orange, red bands. Nothing like those outdoor trees. It's nice to know that we can do this more openly these days granted now we have to worry bout getting jacked more than the other bad alternative.
 

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
for you lol my state is still nono. F them. this oil cures cancer and other illness so im gonna grow lets find a jury to send me up when i show then it cures cancer. not gonna happen when my sister died from cancer.
 

monkeychief

Well-Known Member
for you lol my state is still nono. F them. this oil cures cancer and other illness so im gonna grow lets find a jury to send me up when i show then it cures cancer. not gonna happen when my sister died from cancer.
Sorry bout your sis as this is actually a crime against humanity, to deprives us of our birth-right which is to have full access and will of our natural resources. How the hell can u regulate something u didn't create as this is playing god. I use it to keep my blood pressure low and deal with my body wrecking activities pains subdued, enabling me to be free from contributing to the pharma-cartels. Yes, copulate them all. Hopefully the movement will eventually make it to your state.Let there be green!
 

monkeychief

Well-Known Member
Oh okay, snake oils now?

Bahahaha
Yeah bud. Rough as hell goin down. Nasty shit. lol. I wish u luck and hope your panel serves your application well because there's nothing worse than buyer's remorse. I just feel there's much more cost-effective alternatives out there to choose from and besides, if you're already investing the time and resources into the project, why would u want to sell yourself short. Wouldn't it makes sense to be more strategic in your approach starting with maximizing your purchasing power in order to get the most wattage for your money. Wattage equals intensity equals yield and quality. The more the better, period. At the end of the day, why would u want to get less for the same amount of time and resources invested.
 

Shaded420

Well-Known Member
Because as with most products you buy as a consumer, you like to feel confident with your purchase and not have to go back and deal with countless headaches because things may or may not work properly. I'm really glad that cheap ass chinese LED's have and do work for you, but they should most definitely come with a BUYER BEWARE label.

Like I said, send me one link to a chinese LED company that has documented their results as much as Hans.

P.S: There was a lot of factors that came into it when I decided on the Hans panel - most importantly the fact that I can keep it within 4" of my canopy, and the damn panel is an inch thick.
 

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
if your lights grow your plants and you are happy with your harvest rock on. Hans added more watts for a reason. for me ill buy 1 big Chinese light and use it. then buy an American light and use it. and see which one does better. till then i dont know. that is what im gonna do starting with my new tent around june.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Apparently you haven't seen my HOT5 grow. Melanie, mother to 2 clone under the same HOT5 fully covered 2 x 3.5+

That said, her side branches were so long I had to snap them and let them bud out horizontally

I do want to eliminate hot5 due to mercury inside as an exciter

A51s are excellent value, however, I have seen mj being grown under cob/reflectors to great results. I ordered 2 @ 75w (may well be ~40w actual draw) to supplement the 2 ufo 90s (3500/5000K) in my led tent

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reflector-Cup-Square-UFO-75W-LED-Light-Grow-Panel-Integrated-3w-COB-Flower-Lamp-/190951524750?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item2c7599098e

They also have 2/4/6/9 light panels at tantalizing prices. Unlike most panels, these are super simple- easier to repair or upgrade with new high performance cobs


Plus my main point was its very hard to fill a 5x5 area fully with only four plants and I can't tell that you have made an effective canopy over that area with only three plants either
 

monkeychief

Well-Known Member
Because as with most products you buy as a consumer, you like to feel confident with your purchase and not have to go back and deal with countless headaches because things may or may not work properly. I'm really glad that cheap ass chinese LED's have and do work for you, but they should most definitely come with a BUYER BEWARE label.

I couldn't agree with you more as this is precisely the reason why I've been spending my time writing these short stories for everyone to read and be informed of the pitfalls ahead in this very unethical, greedy, and shady industry still. "caveat emptor" applies to both side of the coin here. U have bonafide american companies making claims like 3.7x the yield of HID's, and 20% of electricity, etc.... Let's not forget that the chinese are not the ones who came up with these enticing creative marketing sales pitches. Beisdes can u imagine how funny it would be for a chinese person to try to sound cool in this business with some canna-verbage action. lol. One must be fully aware of the facts and verify the source before taking anything serious especially coming from the source that can't have your best interests at hart. Not a good idea to let your guards down with anyone who is trying to sell something. Consumer rule #1. Never ever believe your salesperson 2. always do your homework 3. and by all means, analyze, confirm, and question everything.

Cheap ass chinese leds. More than 90% of all leds we use are made by chinese. Less than half a dozen true stateside produced panels out of countless vendors so u tell me what their market share is especially at these american price-tags. Out of those only three can qualify as being manufactured here because the rest are just assembling chinese made parts so I really see no real value except the panels are assembled by chinese instead of us. So basically you're telling me u rather pay twice for a stateside made Iphone rather than the standard chinese made ones that we are all using now along with all of the other major and minor brands. The inconvenient truth is the chinese are the world's production line now and will be for a long time to come because we as americans will never work for the same wages as the chinese. 1.3 billion vs. less than 400 million should answer any doubts as common-sense will dictate the labor costs advantage. Boy, I gotta hand it to these our beloved countryman's successful in brain-washing the market of this nonsense. I really hate to do this but left me no choice. And if anyone in the audience who has have the experience of buying a so-called us brand and also bought the exact unit(not copy lotta times cause the us reseller is just that, a reseller of these chinese panels that the chinese designed and manufactured). FYI. At the end of the year A51 put out a notice that some of their panel were going to be shipped from HONG KONG, which is the shipping hub for most Shenzhen(city where most of these leds are made by HK). Go figure. I'm not suggesting anything. Just passing on info I actually read. I didn't started out buying cheap chinese leds, I started buying those nasty snake oils like HGL 125x Penetrators that was supposed to get me 3.7x the yield. Actual was 3.7x disappointment. HTG's tri-band ufo's with not just reds/blues, but red/ORANGE/blue now. The orange was suppose to turbo-charged the growth. Then I went to the ones that did work Blackdogs, GHL Spectras, and A51. I also found out during the years that all of these with the exception of A51 are available factory-direct from the OEM guys themselves. This is like being able to buy Iphones direct at $300 from the Apple's factory. I'm not a champion of "cheap chinese leds" but just a value conscious consumer that take "caveat emptor" little more serious that your average person. It's nice to be able to school your salesperson and keep them on their toes. Little fyi for shits and giggles. Blackdog was make by LG, yes the Mars II fame, and now rolling off the production line of GEHL. End of discussion unless u still insists on spending more and getting less for the exact same product. The only difference is one is a private label and the other factory direct generic. So I guess you're the consumer who buys brand not generic thinking it's better when it more than likely came from the same labs. Hey, it's your money, sir. I'm just making the info avail. and how u interpret and apply it is up to u. Ny intention and goal here is not to put down us brands and promote cheap chinese leds. For god sake, bud, I'm an American. Why would I want to be a traitor and promote chinese products. I'm not so-called promoting chinese leds but more promoting value whether it's american, chinese, or martians. If it's a deal, it's a deal. This is just being a smart and prudent consumer instead of a brain-washed sucker ideal consumer that they want u to be. I can attest to u that some of these so-call us brand panels will have interchangeable parts and parts number. Crees and Osram. Seriously busted myth as u can get them from the same place that install those same Crees in say Advanced from E-shine or one of the other major OEM guys. Yes, there's some shady chinese companies but no more than the americans. Greed has no ethnic preferences. Another FYI. Next time u step on a plane remember that it's also only an american assembled plane using parts made everywhere round the world including china. In the current world this kind of backward thinking will only benefit the vendors and hurt us as consumers.




Like I said, send me one link to a chinese LED company that has documented their results as much as Hans.

I thinks there's pleanty now just google or youtube it by name as there's plenty. Hans started marketing himself via threads and journals which is a very clever way to build grass roots support and it obviously paid off to his credit. Because of this and he fully exploits is people like yourself still credit and relate him for all the documentation he did on his panel. Even if it work, there's still much more cost-effective options avail.

P.S: There was a lot of factors that came into it when I decided on the Hans panel - most importantly the fact that I can keep it within 4" of my canopy, and the damn panel is an inch thick.


I'm sure you tried your best as far as homework. The problem is the level of experience depends on the actual amount of time and resources invested in order to obtain it. If the spectrum is on, u should be able to literally touch the light without burning. The problem is epecially with his red spectrum is that it needs a minimum amount of distance for spectral blending or saturation. Other wise bleaching(hash-tips) will develop. Yeah, but this is not a phone, being thin's not gonna help u grow buds any better. I rather be concern with functionality rather than it's cosmetic appeal. The Haight Solid State is another slime-line pretty panel that's a true dog as far as performance and cost-effectiveness. If you're gonna run them that close you're better off with an all white or premdominately white so color blending is not as much a concern. All in all good luck bud, you bought and it's all u now.
 

monkeychief

Well-Known Member
Breath brother breath. I hear you. some wont no matter how much you try.

Thanks bud. As u can see I devote a lot of my time trying to help people for their gain not mine as this is my enjoyment. Those of u who know me know I have a full schedule and have a lot of other things I should be doing than this. The truth, the truth. Convenient or not.
 

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
Monkey check this out. i have my lights in flower (led lights cfl drop down also) at 16 hrs now for 5 days. i moved 2 plants out(2 days ago) to make room so my 2 biggest can use all the led lights. one went nuts showed his sacks. one showed her pistols. funny that they did it big time after changing light source and 1 day diff in daytime.
Male --->View attachment 3004111
here are his roots 45 days from seed in 1 quart pot with air injection soil.-->Roots of air injection soil 45 days from seed in 1 quart pot.jpg

Female->female1.jpg
 

Shaded420

Well-Known Member
Listen, if I wanted to buy god damn chinese junk that failed in 3 months I would have - and their grow journals of tomatoes and basil plants are truly awe inspiring.

With that being said, I chose quality and brand name results over cost effectiveness because I'm not cheap. Does a Hyundai have two wheels, does it drive, does it get you to work? Sure...that doesn't mean it's got the same build quality as an Acura.

Even if you could find me a chinese LED panel with the same dimensions and LED specs as Hans, I wouldn't buy it for 1/3 the price.

Nobody here is arguing that the origin of most LED's come from China....build quality goes far above and beyond your LED supplier.

I'm not claiming Hans panel to be some gift to marijuana growing, but your little comment about it being suited for growing a chia pet is what set me off. I've got my panel literally within 3-4" of my top colas right now with no "hash tip bleaching" like you say is supposed to be happening. In fact I'm quite impressed with how the plants are showing right now. All I can tell you is the results will speak for themselves, good or bad - I'm not going to just stop updating my journal if things don't work out the way I expect them to.
 

monkeychief

Well-Known Member
Listen, if I wanted to buy god damn chinese junk that failed in 3 months I would have - and their grow journals of tomatoes and basil plants are truly awe inspiring.

I have some of those cheap panels running 18hours/day for the last 3 years and they're still cranking next to their overpriced siblings. Far and Beyond, how's your cheap 84x's vs. your brand-name counterparts? Do realize how absurd to speculate 3months based on what, your confused and misguided prejudice??? Which hat did u pull that one from, bud? And u asked me what I was smokin..lol. Tomatoes and basil plants? I wont even go there and let some of the audience who has successful flowered with those cheap chinese leds. If you're gonna talk crap, try to have some substance to it bud, instead of digging a deeper hole for yourself.

With that being said, I chose quality and brand name results over cost effectiveness because I'm not cheap. Does a Hyundai have two wheels, does it drive, does it get you to work? Sure...that doesn't mean it's got the same build quality as an Acura.

Cost-effectiveness does not only pertain to initial upfront costs but includes the overall effectiveness and return of investments. All the negatives points u given are all based on biased speculations when the truth and facts are that these panels are just as dependable as their re-branded siblings. I'm not cheap either, buddy. I'm just smart and prudent bout my purchases and like to get as much value-added as possible. Who the hell goes out and pay MSRP. Forget, don't answer that one. Damn, I should get into this business as it's just tooo easy with buyers like u. lol.


Does a Hyundai have two wheels, does it drive, does it get you to work? Sure...that doesn't mean it's got the same build quality as an Acura.

Hang on, bud. I'm gonna have to take a big bong rip of apeshit here before answer this classic line.......cough, cough.
Dude, don't know what u're smoking but please send me some beans cause I didn't know Hyundai makes motorcycles. Must be a new two-wheel car I don't know bout. These Koreans on the things the come up with I tell ya... Yes, it does all of the above but too bad that Legend is now a re-badged Sonota cause Hyundai got so damn big they bought Honda and also made it factory direct under no name for 1/3 the price. Don't tell me you would still buy the Legend now.



Even if you could find me a chinese LED panel with the same dimensions and LED specs as Hans, I wouldn't buy it for 1/3 the price.

You are definitely a Hans poster child candidate, bud. I'm negatively speechless...

Nobody here is arguing that the origin of most LED's come from China....build quality goes far above and beyond your LED supplier.

Dude, I swore my english grades were not that bad cause I seem to can't get u to understand one little simple thing.... Ok... slowly... Factual example. K... U take a say an Advanced and then u take a comparable E-shine panel and u put it side-by-side and u tear it apart. There's no visible or hardware difference the parts are copulating identical....


build quality goes far above and beyond your LED supplier.


Dude, u know when got your ass kicked. I give up on this one, bud. I'm stumped. I couldn't possibly answer this if it was worth a million bucks. Seriously.



I'm not claiming Hans panel to be some gift to marijuana growing, but your little comment about it being suited for growing a chia pet is what set me off. I've got my panel literally within 3-4" of my top colas right now with no "hash tip bleaching" like you say is supposed to be happening. In fact I'm quite impressed with how the plants are showing right now. All I can tell you is the results will speak for themselves, good or bad - I'm not going to just stop updating my journal if things don't work out the way I expect them to.


Nobody said u did. I'm just pointing out there are more cost-effective alternatives avail.. I sincerely apologize it was out of line for me but seeing claims like that bothers me cause there's new people actually relying on these info and opinions to make buying decisions. If u see someone about to cross the street onto the path of an oncoming car, you wouldn't be human if u didn't try to stop the person. 3-4" from the top will be detrimental to you spectral saturation and coverage along with penetration. One word, bud. Physics is a 4 letter word per your application 4" away. I'm happy you're happy with it so far and sincerely wish u the best of luck, bud. But don't come at me as if I'm an idiot promoting cheap stuff for what. What the hell do I get from this except helping people steer clear of all this bs rip-offs.
 

supertiger

Well-Known Member
Lol hard time believing that..are you trolling..pics? Just because mostly crap comes out of Michigan anyway, four feet in one month is nearly impossible if not completely impossible indoors, and anyway growing monster plants in small areas is inefficient
That's simply not true but I'm sure he isn't worried about stretching and if you have the height you shouldn't be worried about stretching..


As far as LED's are these chinese garbage LEDs? http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-7-Band-432w-LED-Grow-Light
Because I pull some great yields with them.


You could dance around with a hans all day but I'm quite satisfied with these panels. The main issue LED shoppers don't realize is different panels have different attributes. Some panels focus light straight down while others spread the light out very wide. Some panels have varying power consumption in watts when compared to the advertised wattage of the LED light. Meaning a 400 watt LED may only draw 240 watts of electrical power. I would call that 240 watts of LED. When you look at a Lumigrow 600 watt panel it's actually drawing power much closer to the advertised LED wattage therefore I would assume the Lumigrow is a more accurately advertised product and it's going to perform better than the chinese panel advertised at 600 watts that's only drawing 350 watts of electrical power. Want to replace a 600 watt HPS? You better get enough led lights to use an actual 600 watts of electrical power or you will not get the results expected. Also be prepared to open your wallet quite wide. To me LED lights work but they're really a toy for the enthusiast. If you're looking for maximum return on investment invest all the dollars into HPS lighting.
 

monkeychief

Well-Known Member
That's simply not true but I'm sure he isn't worried about stretching and if you have the height you shouldn't be worried about stretching..


As far as LED's are these chinese garbage LEDs? http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-7-Band-432w-LED-Grow-Light
Because I pull some great yields with them.

Thank you for verifying that u successfully flowered and got great yields out of your chinese garbage leds. This is precisely what I'm talking about when I say there's no difference in performance, build, etc. between the so-called brand-names and their factory direct counterparts. Regarding the Hans. I already acknowledged that even if i works, which is good, is limited to 65w and that's good for 1.5sqft per recommendation of minimum 40-50w/sqft.. My point is that there are more cost-effective alternatives avail. What u referring to is the diff. between the rated and actual pull which is is an old marketing trick they used but not much now cause people caught on to that kind of bs. Regarding the actual wattage required to run with the 600HPS you are absolutely correct. This myth bout using 1/4-/13 of wattage vs. HID's like I've said many times, has been seriously busted. The last statement used to be true but things have changed a lot lately regarding the potential of leds producing HID's yield/quality. For those who don't think leds has the potential to run with the hid's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVNxNVnkBPE
 

monkeychief

Well-Known Member
Monkey check this out. i have my lights in flower (led lights cfl drop down also) at 16 hrs now for 5 days. i moved 2 plants out(2 days ago) to make room so my 2 biggest can use all the led lights. one went nuts showed his sacks. one showed her pistols. funny that they did it big time after changing light source and 1 day diff in daytime.
Male --->View attachment 3004111
here are his roots 45 days from seed in 1 quart pot with air injection soil.-->View attachment 3004113

Female->View attachment 3004112
16 hours and you're flowering? Pistils good, sacks no good.lol. Those roots look great, dude. That air injection's cool. Gotta try that. Did u buy that injection or DIY?
 

Where am I

Well-Known Member
for you lol my state is still nono. F them. this oil cures cancer and other illness so im gonna grow lets find a jury to send me up when i show then it cures cancer. not gonna happen when my sister died from cancer.
Sorry about your loss DC... My State is setting it up to turn it over to big pharma.... Sorta like Canada. You will have to be licensed by the State to grow.. If you are one of the lucky ones to get a license then you provide it to the pharmacies... Gone are the specialty strains that many of us medicinal growers currently are growing / breeding. It won't work because you will end up getting some dirt weed at 10 X the price... Gotta love it when government gets involved they just screw it up. If they allow the "home brew" type regulations it would be much better. Look what happen to tobacco the corporations got involved put in all kinds of chemical and fillers "brainwashed" everyone that it was cool. Yet knowing that their stuff would kill people. If you ever had tobacco straight from the plant properly cured it is a totally different...
 
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