Uncle Ben's Gardening Tweeks and Pointers

Doer

Well-Known Member
I don't know about all this. Tomato does not have more powerful tomato at the top and popcorn at the bottom.

So, Ben has been around and does not sucker the tomato. But, I "sucker" the pot plant. (clones) I only want dominate branching.

I don't allow secondary branching. I want cola tops and 4-5 dominant colas, in 16 weeks. And I take this from fruit tree production. Do you want a bunch of small apples and a lot of peel, the pit to fruit ratio, unfavorable, etc? Or do you want big prize apples where there is much more total weight of actual fruit. Well, you prune dominate branches for that, don't you?

So, if you are trying say, that like tomato, the bush popcorn buds, have the same quality as the cola, I don't buy that. My tests don't show that.

To me this is all about cell fluid pressure. Turgidity. A system with lots of branching has to maintain more pumping to a bunch of tiny nodes. But, when I prune out the new secondary growth, I maintaining a better pressure up the dominate branch.
 

Impman

Well-Known Member
"Nature is a heartless bitch" to quote a duck. Ag is older than religion and absolutely necessary for survival. Survival of the fittest does not equate to good tasting fruits and veggies or big healthy buds. I don't know about the 'energy" argument but you can certainly understand why there are so many different grow methods, right?

I do not want to remove leafs or branches based on what I have read from UB but ...... I had a large grow and did not take off any leafs or 'lollipop'. Out of 99 plants my partner and I took the leafs off of two plants about 3 weeks before harvest. Those 2 plants noticeably caked on crystals. SO much so that I thought we fucked up by not doing it to all of them. I guess it was just a crazy coincidence? Whatever it is, when I get more grows under my belt and more experience I am not done researching it. I am taking some college classes and that will be something I go out of the way to learn more about. I say follow UB style but I am not 100% convinced about it being a complete waste.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Right, we need to do our own tests. and remember Ben is growing tree size outdoors, once a year.

Maybe in full sun, popcorn is that same as cola.

However you think about it. Resin is from light. THC is made with UV, in the tricome, research has suggested.

So, shaded popcorn never has the same density of tricomes as unshaded popcorn under magnification. Are we wrong about this?

This is not food. It is medicine. We grow to max the meds.
 

Rocketman64

Active Member
Well Ben, I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks that particular line of thinking was a bit backwards. The more I read the rest of that article the more stuff I find that's not making a lot of sense to me. Doer makes a good point regarding the secondary branching and turgidity and I think that's where the author of the statement in question was headed with his statements. However, the term 'energy' caught my eye only because the use of the term is too broad. Energy as a plant knows it consists of thousands of pieces of a puzzle brought together for a common purpose. Remove any one of those pieces and you have a broken chain. Plants and other living things on this planet are tremendous at adapting to adverse conditions and so we, they cope. The important thing to remember is one of the reasons plant processes are so complex is so the plant, like other living things, doesn't rely on ONE simple element to survive. The stakes are too high- life or death. So living things require a multitude of processes and elements in order to thrive. When a particular living organism gets cut off of one particular process or element it finds ways to adapt in order to survive. Obviously, there are exceptions to these rules but generally living things rely on many, many things to take place in order to remain living. So far from what I can tell from reading a lot of arguments Ben is involved in, he's simply trying to make people understand that removing foliage, branches, popcorn all work against the plants natural ability to provide for itself using the genes it was given to simply live. Many, many growers find ways to manipulate plants they perceive as helping their yield. We can force a plant to do strange things and it doesn't surprise me when I hear stories of how well a plant performs after it's been stressed by pulling branches and leaves. The genetics are there for repairing the damage and coping with the stress. I struggle sometimes understanding how growers think they know better than what the plant is pre-programmed to do- live. Each time you stress the plant, you challenge the plant. Cannabis happens to be one of those plants that doesn't take this shit lying down, it fights back with all it's resources. You have to really, really try to kill the Cannabis plant as most of us I'm sure are aware. Whenever we get into these discussions of different growing styles I always cringe a little. Mostly because I know we're headed for the apples and oranges argument again. Growing a tree-size plant outside in full sun, little or no pruning is giving the plant everything it needs to thrive without intervention. Growing 168 plants on a 4x4 table under artificial lighting creates a challenge for the plant and the grower. For someone to say their way is better is simply just being silly. 168 plants indoors under artificial lighting in a small space may produce a wonderful yield for that grower with the right technique but damn it, plant those same 168 plants outdoors under natural lighting and room to spread and there simply won't be any comparison in yield. Apples and Oranges. I'm not a guy that likes confrontation, I'm better to observe and make my own decisions. My observations tell me there are way too many ways to make Cannabis grow to compare one to the other. That being said, I rarely see a grower struggle with keeping plants alive and healthy when they just leave the damn thing alone and let it grow. The people I see struggle are the ones looking to maximize their yield by manipulating the plants to do things it's not meant to do and then complain about it when it doesn't produce. That's not saying all struggle with their style of manipulation, many growers have the indoor thing figured out and their system works for them. Well, same here. My system of leaving the plant to do it's thing works too, let's not compare the two and claim one is better. I've never struggled harder at growing than I am right now. The only reason for this is because I brought my operation indoors. After years (over 30) of growing outdoors successfully with little effort, I'm now faced with learning a totally new way of doing things. I wouldn't suggest for a minute that I know the best way to pull this off so I read and read and read. I keep running across ideas about pruning the shit out of the plant to produce bigger buds. This goes against EVERYTHING I've ever learned about how plants work but there are no shortage of claims that this is the preferred method for indoor growing. I've picked up a pair of clippers on several occasions, standing in front of my plant saying to myself, "Well, here goes..." And then I stand there a little longer (shears in hand, hand shaking) and I can't get myself to do it. Once I finish creating more space for growing it's game on. I will be trying all these little manipulation techniques people are raving about and I'll make up my own mind in the end. For now, I let my plant(s) do their thing and only intervene if there's an issue. Damn, did I really ramble on that long? Sorry guys. BTW, how come I can't get a line break by hitting 'enter'? This all looks like one big pile of words, can't figure it out.
 

TechnicalToker

Well-Known Member
Im no expert by any means. 2 grows. NYC D. First grow, lolly popped and removed some foliage on other wise naturally growing plants. Not a bad yield and not bad product. Second grow, almost to harvest, LST tied and trained to even canopy but removed NO foliage. Going to be a way better yield but Ill have to let you know about quality of the product. In the second grow the plants look much healthier and have at least a third more product. Everything else being equal.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Do you want a bunch of small apples and a lot of peel, the pit to fruit ratio, unfavorable, etc? Or do you want big prize apples where there is much more total weight of actual fruit. Well, you prune dominate branches for that, don't you?
No. You drop 40 - 60% of the fruit, for that.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
OK. I understand. And I was just about add that I am not here for a debate and this is a tip section, etc.

So, it is your position that more popcorn on the lower branches does not affect the weight and density of cola masses? OK.

However, I don't think I agree, if the implication is that the primary synthesis of THC is not based on UV light. I have seen research to the contrary. So, I have to remain open on that one.

But, are you saying a bud is a bud in quality from top to bottom? Even on the shady, scrawny branches, all those buds have the same content of THC as the top colas?

So, I'm not arguing with you at all. I seek your meaning.
 

lilroach

Well-Known Member
Since bigger buds have more "bag appeal", I usually end up with the "popcorn" buds for my own stash and have found them to be as potent....if not a little more...than the bigger buds people want to see when buying an ounce.
 

Jbone77

Well-Known Member
If popcorn buds were as potent if not more potent than cola buds, there wouldnt be a thread called "uncle bens topping technique" aimed to get 4 main colas thus gaining cola weight and losing popcorn weight. Just sayin
 

lilroach

Well-Known Member
Ok.....cola weight vs. "loosing weight" because of pop-corn buds? Is it your contention that cola's gain when one rids a plant of popcorn bearing branches?

Can you show me where this applies to this plant:



I know I've shown this plant often, but it's a prime example of a plant that hasn't had any trimming at all. I had a shit-load of pop-corn buds below the canopy. Yield of the 2 colas dry......4.75 ounces...overall yield 7.75 ounces.

Not record breaking by any means but proof that one doesn't have to ditch perfectly good branches to increase cola production.
 

redeyedfrog

Well-Known Member
The one thing i've learned along the way is everyone has their own techniques to growing and the more you read the more confused you become, the best way to do it is "GROW"!!!
You will learn from your own mistakes and failures and successes.
The more you do it the better you become and you discover the simpler you make it the better the results.
We tend to love our plants to death literally and all she really needs is air light and water and she will flourish.
the other techniques will come into play as we gain experience, i love supercropping and only use organics, worm juice and bat guano and seaweed for foliar.
works for me but thats me and it may or may not be someone elses gig.
Keep it simple and have fun...
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
But, are you saying a bud is a bud in quality from top to bottom? Even on the shady, scrawny branches, all those buds have the same content of THC as the top colas?

So, I'm not arguing with you at all. I seek your meaning.
Sorry, I don't have the equipment to measure but Mel Frank reported lab results, even noted males can be more potent than females. Get his book.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Well, I stand corrected. Thank you. What would be the reason to do it, then? I just want to know what you think. That is all.
Most if not all commercial fruit growers drop about 40% of the fruit at marble size mainly for marketing purposes - to promote size, "sex appeal". They also prune during the dormant season. Those field techniques really doesn't apply to cannabis. BUT, botany is botany. Any time you remove branches you reduce overall yield on cannabis.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
The one thing i've learned along the way is everyone has their own techniques to growing and the more you read the more confused you become, the best way to do it is "GROW"!!!
You will learn from your own mistakes and failures and successes.
That is true. I call it understanding your program, finding what works best for you. Plant doesn't care how its nutrients and water are delivered just long as it gets what it needs. That can come in the form of soil or water culture.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I don't have the equipment to measure but Mel Frank reported lab results, even noted males can be more potent than females. Get his book.
Yeah, I have that. There is a chart where, indeed the males are doing better than the Fems for a significant period of growth.

Hmmm.....I will need to get equal weight buds assayed, I guess, to solve this one for myself.

I am quite open minded. The common wisdom.....often it contains so little wisdom, no wonder it is called common.
 
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