Polyploidy questions..

Okay..As it is particularly unsafe to severly prune cannabis plants, or any plant for that matter..How do you safely induce plants into polyploidy without using that poisonous plant shit? Also..Anybody have any good pictures of what polyploid cannabis actually looks like? Ive experimented a bit with it myself, although I cant really begin considering if an increase in about a half an ounce per plant is what is called "rapid production and boastful yields" due to polyploidy.

What the hell is Polyploidy? Polyploidy

Polyploidy is an abnormal mutation in the genetics of marijuana..caused manually by the grower. From what Ive read and understand..You can induce it by either a) Applying small amounts of a certain poisonous plant's crushed bulbs onto the growth tips until the leaves begin to fill in mishapen and mutated...Or b)Allowing the plant to develope a strong stem and central branching system before stripping it back all the way to the branches..Leaving no leaves. Once they have grown back, you regularly clip the large leaves from it up until flowering..(Which is recommended once the plant is around 15-16" inches in height) My question is..Has anyone here sucessfully done it, and noted a considerable increase in yield? From what science tells us..Polyploidy causes the plant to develope chromosomes that hadnt originally been there from the genetics of the plant, bringing forth abnormally high yields and larger leaf development. It doesnt, however..increase the potency of the plant.

Kiganoga said:

Polyploidy is an abnormal mutation in the genetics of marijuana..caused manually by the grower. From what Ive read and understand..You can induce it by either a) Applying small amounts of a certain poisonous plant's crushed bulbs onto the growth tips until the leaves begin to fill in mishapen and mutated...Or b)Allowing the plant to develope a strong stem and central branching system before stripping it back all the way to the branches..Leaving no leaves. Once they have grown back, you regularly clip the large leaves from it up until flowering..(Which is recommended once the plant is around 15-16" inches in height) My question is..Has anyone here sucessfully done it, and noted a considerable increase in yield? From what science tells us..Polyploidy causes the plant to develope chromosomes that hadnt originally been there from the genetics of the plant, bringing forth abnormally high yields and larger leaf development. It doesnt, however..increase the potency of the plant.

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i call bullshit; all of these tactics will actually lower yeild, and i've never ever ever seen anywhere that polyploids were picked because of that feature for breeding. almost always, a polyploid (genetic defect, not human stress induced like you're talking about) will never manifest itself physically. you won't know that the plant is a polyploid; it's a recessive mutation.

but, as it IS a mutation, you can't create it. what you're talking about are not polyploid leaves, but stress leaves.

kp

Well, then basically you are calling Mel Thomas..One of the biggest names in pot cultivation in the UK a liar as well. His newest book states..:

"The plants are allowed to establish themselves and develop a strong stem before they are defoliated. All of the leaves are stripped back, leaving just the branches. The plants are then regularly trimmed of large leaves right up until flowering: The leaves will start to grow back misshapen but this is normal. Once the plants reach a height of around 16" the light cycle is changed to 12 hours and the plant is induced to flower. The flowering Phase will take approximately 50 days.

Continual and severe defoliation produces what are known as polyploid plants: basically genetic mutations. Polyploidy is well known in the plant world and mutations can take many forms. What is of interest to the cannabis producer is that these mutations can produce abnormally high yields, although there is no increase in potency or THC content.

Polyploidy can be chemically induced in marijuana plants with colchicine, which is found in crocus plants and can be extracted from the bulbs by crushing them. Dilute the juice with an equal amount of warm water and add a few drops of non-ionic wetting agent. Paint this solution onto the growing tips four times a day for three days;the plant will start to produce abnormal leaves that are misshapen and irregular. Although the colchicine has been extracted from the plant, it is poisonous and should be handled carefully wearing gloves. If you do want to expirement with these plants it is easier to try to induce polyploidy by stripping the plant foliage back." - "Cannabis Cultivation : A Complete Grower's Guide", By Mel Thomas..Page 93.

why would you ever want a polyploid plant, what purpose could it possibly have?

Kiganoga said:

Well, then basically you are calling Mel Thomas..One of the biggest names in pot cultivation in the UK a liar as well.

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um, yeah, that's basically what i'm saying. just because you wrote a book doesn't mean you know what the fuck you're talking about. polyploid, a GENETIC mutation, is genetic; you therefore CANNOT INDUCE THIS ARTIFICIALLY. the ONLY way to get true polyploids for what you're talking about is to breed know polyploids together.

now; if you want to see really fucked up leaves, all you have to do is put a plant in hydro, let it grow nice and pretty, then turn your pumps off and leave the plant for a few days to draw from the solution on it's own. you'll get all kinds of "polyploidy" leaves. but..... they aren't polyploid leaves; they are STRESS LEAVES. big difference. also, try revegging a plant... hey look! polyploid leaves!!!!!


nope, just stress....

just because someone wrote a book doesn't mean you should read it like the bible. kinda like naming your kid jesus; doesn't make him the messiah.

kp

mel frank has been growing weed for 30+ years. yeah, fuck him, what does he know?

fdd2blk said:

mel frank has been growing weed for 30+ years. yeah, fuck him, what does he know?

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here's a noobish q.....

if "making" a polyploid greatly increases yields, why isn't it a standard for all growers? don't we all strive to do the best?


hmm....

i still say bull shit.

fdd2blk said:

mel frank has been growing weed for 30+ years. yeah, fuck him, what does he know?

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i have no idea what i'm talking about. who's the newbie now beeeches?

I'm with KP on this one, I dont see how stressing a plant would cause that much of a mutation. But why not, lets try it anyway!

It obviously works to some extent..Because I wouldnt get an increase at ALL if it hurt the plant as much as you think it does. So all of this is bullshit, actually.

Acta Horticulturae

Go there..They experimented "Inducing" Polyploidy with the same damn chemical im talking about on cranberry plants..For the purpose of INCREASED YIELD, dammit..So Im not just someone who doesnt know what Im talking about..And Mel Thomas isnt a fuckin idiot, or a newb to growing..He got a life sentence for an assessed value of 3.5 million pounds worth of crop. Ill be sure to update you all with other finds on polyploidy yields..

SpringerLink - Journal Article
Polyploidy chemically induced on Orchids..
Blackwell Synergy - Plant Breeding, Volume 117 Issue 5 Page 500-502, November 1998 (Article Abstract)
Polyploidy chemically induced on Strawberries..
Marijuana Horticulture: The Indoor ... - Google Book Search
Polyploidy chemically induced on Cannabis..


Now..To answer the question as to WHY you would want a polyploid plant..Seeing as how Ive already proved it possible to make a cannabis plant into one. Polyploids have twice the cell production that Diploids do. Thus, twice the fucking yield..end of story. Now as Ive gotten into an arguement with myself and many others here, Id say I took this long journey of asking only to answer my own questions..

I find it quite laughable that a man of Mel Thomas' standing can be shrugged off in this way.

After 30 years In growing I'd say he knows more than any of us (maybe together) that have posted in this thread so far.

kiganoga, thanks for posting that information here. I'm really interested in your experiment. Any chance of you starting a journal, with pic's?

Actually yes..As soon as I get my Mazar and Blueberry seeds in (Should be arriving in like a week or soo..Its been like one and a half) Im going to set 2 of the seeds aside for experimental purposes..(They are femmed, so It's not a risk because of low quantity subjects..) One of the major differences that Ive seen after stripping the foliage back is how bushy the plant gets about two-three weeks later. Leaves grow from practically everywhere..

Kiganoga said:

Actually yes..As soon as I get my Mazar and Blueberry seeds in (Should be arriving in like a week or soo..Its been like one and a half) Im going to set 2 of the seeds aside for experimental purposes..(They are femmed, so It's not a risk because of low quantity subjects..) One of the major differences that Ive seen after stripping the foliage back is how bushy the plant gets about two-three weeks later. Leaves grow from practically everywhere..

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Also, I remember you stating that this is all done in VEG' stage. I may well try this little experiment myself. You can virtually do what you like to a plant while it's in veg'.

Thanks again.

Kiganoga said:

Marijuana Horticulture: The Indoor ... - Google Book Search
Polyploidy chemically induced on Cannabis..

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"...attempted inducing polyploidy in many varieties, none leading to agronomic success."

Marijuana Botany: The Propogation ... - Google Book Search

Dont know what the hell agronomic success means..So here's another source of someone's actual experiments.