Update on aeroponics grow, with trimming question

vespa8910 · Oct 22, 2011

Hello everyone,

We have been flowering for three weeks and I am a little concerned with the growth of our buds. Our color is still pekid, as you might remember, we had some lock out issues, due to too much nutrients and a bad water filter.

Here are the two varieties after three weeks of growth.

Tall variety:

And this is our small variety:

My concerns are that I did too much trimming on the tall variety. I am also concerned with the bud size after three weeks of flowering. I feel like I can still see evidence of lock out. I have decreased the nutrients to about the 600ppm range and the water has been properly filtered for weeks now.

Any opinions?

lordjin · Oct 23, 2011

Shit, that looks just like the same problem I saw this guy having on a youtube grow series. He couldn't for the life of him figure out what was causing that stunting and clawing. I watched them pretty carefully and I couldn't really figure it out, either, unfortunately. He checked for salt buildup, no. Algae? No. Overferft? No. Ph drift? I don't know, I'd have to examine a person's grow in person. I'd have to live with you for a week or two to see what you're doing... and you don't want that. Lol.

What has your ph been in all of this? That looks a little more than a simple deficiency or overfert. I still say there is a detrimental element in your source water that's causing a lockout. They have the look of severe burn which is a sign of overload and buildup and stunting resulting from their rejection rather than absorption of vital elements. It's that delicate balance of uptake and absorption that we're always shooting for.

Describe what your flowering feed regimen has been.

Remember, this shit isn't easy, bro. I'm constantly still learning too. I just realized, for example, that I was running my ph too acidic with my last grow, so I had mag deficiency... I did get lax in my calmag use at a certain point, too.

I know I'm not the only one looking at this. What do you vets think?

vespa8910 · Oct 23, 2011

lordjin said:
Shit, that looks just like the same problem I saw this guy having on a youtube grow series. He couldn't for the life of him figure out what was causing that stunting and clawing. I watched them pretty carefully and I couldn't really figure it out, either, unfortunately. He checked for salt buildup, no. Algae? No. Overferft? No. Ph drift? I don't know, I'd have to examine a person's grow in person. I'd have to live with you for a week or two to see what you're doing... and you don't want that. Lol.

What has your ph been in all of this? That looks a little more than a simple deficiency or overfert. I still say there is a detrimental element in your source water.

I know I'm not the only one looking at this. What do you vets think?

So it definitely doesn't look like the amount of flowering for 3 weeks? Or, are you talking more about leaf color?

Could it be algae? I have some algae in the system, due to those clear tubes.

I am thinking that it has something to do with salts or algae, although the water changes have been quite often now.

I tell you, I am ready to have you come over and look at this thing.

I am good at building things, but the grow component is really starting to go south.

lordjin · Oct 23, 2011

vespa8910 said:
So it definitely doesn't look like the amount of flowering for 3 weeks? Or, are you talking more about leaf color?

Could it be algae? I have some algae in the system, due to those clear tubes.

I am thinking that it has something to do with salts or algae, although the water changes have been quite often now.

I tell you, I am ready to have you come over and look at this thing.

I am good at building things, but the grow component is really starting to go south.

Ph! And describe feeding regimen. Sorry, I keep adding edits to my original comment.

Filthy Phil · Oct 23, 2011

Thry look fried, it heavily stunts bud production when done so early, and is hard to come back from something so severe. How hot is your room? They use twice as much water from 75 to 85 degrees forcing them to take up much more nutes than they want. Honestly, I think youre just goona have to swallow a diminished harvest. Thats why I stear people away from those setups untill they really really know what they are doing. Bummer man, and good luck bringing them back.

Slivers · Oct 24, 2011

vespa8910 said:
Hello everyone,

We have been flowering for three weeks and I am a little concerned with the growth of our buds. Our color is still pekid, as you might remember, we had some lock out issues, due to too much nutrients and a bad water filter.

Here are the two varieties after three weeks of growth.

Tall variety:
View attachment 1850199 View attachment 1850201

View attachment 1850203

And this is our small variety:

View attachment 1850205 View attachment 1850206 View attachment 1850207 View attachment 1850208

My concerns are that I did too much trimming on the tall variety. I am also concerned with the bud size after three weeks of flowering. I feel like I can still see evidence of lock out. I have decreased the nutrients to about the 600ppm range and the water has been properly filtered for weeks now.

Any opinions?

I'd bet my left nut that your temps are higher than 85+

vespa8910 · Oct 24, 2011

Hey guys, thanks for the help.

Since my filter repair, my ph has been locked at about 5.5 to 5.8. Early in the grow (first 3 weeks / broken filter) we had a natural ph of 7.2 and we had to continuously use ph down to lower the ph to 6.5, which is where we kept it throughout that period

I am using general hydroponics. at the start of the flower, I was using:

140ml FloraGrow
280ml FloraMicro
420ml FloraBloom
140ml Kool Bloom

That put us at about 1200ppm. We ran that for a few days, then we were told that the GH online calculator grossly overestimated nutrient levels. We dumped the tank and lowered the levels.

60ml FloraGrow
120ml FloraMicro
180ml FloraBloom
60mo Kool Bloom

This put our levels at about 650 - 700ppm.

Our temperatures have been pretty consistently in the mid 70's. Our temps did top 80, when we had our heat wave. Several days our temps did get to 88 for a few hours, but that was weeks ago. We are doing CO2.

I am wondering if our hot days coincided with our high nutrients....

We are also having some mild algae in the clear tubes. Not sure if there is any such thing as mild algae.

lordjin · Oct 24, 2011

vespa8910 said:
Hey guys, thanks for the help.

Since my filter repair, my ph has been locked at about 5.5 to 5.8. Early in the grow (first 3 weeks / broken filter) we had a natural ph of 7.2 and we had to continuously use ph down to lower the ph to 6.5, which is where we kept it throughout that period

I am using general hydroponics. at the start of the flower, I was using:

140ml FloraGrow
280ml FloraMicro
420ml FloraBloom
140ml Kool Bloom

That put us at about 1200ppm. We ran that for a few days, then we were told that the GH online calculator grossly overestimated nutrient levels. We dumped the tank and lowered the levels.

60ml FloraGrow
120ml FloraMicro
180ml FloraBloom
60mo Kool Bloom

This put our levels at about 650 - 700ppm.

Our temperatures have been pretty consistently in the mid 70's. Our temps did top 80, when we had our heat wave. Several days our temps did get to 88 for a few hours, but that was weeks ago. We are doing CO2.

I am wondering if our hot days coincided with our high nutrients....

We are also having some mild algae in the clear tubes. Not sure if there is any such thing as mild algae.

I found this great thread right here on RIU that gives a pretty good rundown of the most common issues. Check it out:

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/431390-most-common-marijuana-plant-problems.html

vespa8910 · Oct 26, 2011

OK, we are about ready to kick this grow to the curb and start over. I have attached a picture of the buds from a couple of days ago. I would like to get opinions on harvesting this saturday. I don't think we are going to get any further with this.

lordjin · Oct 26, 2011

vespa8910 said:
View attachment 1856524OK, we are about ready to kick this grow to the curb and start over. I have attached a picture of the buds from a couple of days ago. I would like to get opinions on harvesting this saturday. I don't think we are going to get any further with this.

They just couldn't break the lock. Consider it a learning experience.

Next time go way, way, and I mean waaay gentler on the nutes from the get go. If your plants need a little more food, you can always give them more, but if they're locked out from too much food, it could be a difficult fix.

My first advice to you is ignore, and I mean ignore the ml to gallon dosage instructions on those bottles. See these charts. One is for recirculating the other for drain to waste:

http://www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/feeding_charts/GH_KeepItSimple_DrainToWaste.pdf
http://www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/feeding_charts/GH_KeepItSimple_Recirculating.pdf

I'm showing you these charts not because you should follow the ml to gallon instructions on them (ignore those too) but rather to provide a guide of mix ratios depending on your phase of growth. Mix the ingredients in their suggested ratios into a large jar about half filled with RO. NEVER mix directly into your res per the label's ml to gallon instructions. Just take that jar of mixed concentrate and get it up to 250ppm - 350ppm at early clone or seedling stage. Continue to follow the chart ratios in this manner for the following weeks, increasing by about 100-200ppm per week.

vespa8910 · Oct 31, 2011

OK, so we scrubbed out the grow. Our harvest was pretty much as low as you could get, so we didn't want to waste any more time waiting for something to happen.

Here are some pictures of the process:

So the question is this: If we have this harvest, which doesn't look like it's going to be salable, what should we do with it? Should we just turn it all into hash and call it a day??

lordjin · Oct 31, 2011

What do you mean? You mean vending to shops? Those guys won't consider buying shit unless it's like the best, most perfect bud in the world... And then they'll try to rip you off.

vespa8910 · Nov 5, 2011

OK, tomorrow is the start of week two.

Week one we had problems with this stuipid ro filter again, so we had about 30ppm in the water, which was getting by the filter and about 40ppm that was coming from the residual liquid in the tubes.

Per Lordjin's recommendation, we added about 300ppm of nutrients in the the ratios recommended by GH. That came out to 35ml of FloraGro, FloraMicro, FloraBloom.

With this the roots started coming in like gangbusters. I was concerned that the additional contaminates would cause problems.

As the new leaves started to come in on the clones, I noticed that the color looked a little uneven, which sent me into a panic.

We went ahead and dumped the reservoir and refilled with water from the water machine. 5ppm. This is so we could spend some time shoving this RO filter up the behind of the people we bought it from.

With this new water, going into the second week, we were going to up the nutes 100, per lordjin, but we were concerned about lockout, so we just went up 50ppm. This was done in the GH week 2 ratio:

FloraGrow 2parts
FloraMicro 1part
FloraBloom 1part.

The end result was a reservoir (5ppm water), with 345ppm of nutes.

Here are the pictures of the leaves of the plants. :

Should we be thinking about Calmag on week 2???

Am I just panicking???

Really don't want a replay of the last mess.

Our temp issues and humidity have been worked out. Our RO filter will be fixed today, so this change is clean, as will be all the others.

Let me know what you think

lordjin · Nov 5, 2011

vespa8910 said:
OK, tomorrow is the start of week two.

Week one we had problems with this stuipid ro filter again, so we had about 30ppm in the water, which was getting by the filter and about 40ppm that was coming from the residual liquid in the tubes.

Per Lordjin's recommendation, we added about 300ppm of nutrients in the the ratios recommended by GH. That came out to 35ml of FloraGro, FloraMicro, FloraBloom.

With this the roots started coming in like gangbusters. I was concerned that the additional contaminates would cause problems.

As the new leaves started to come in on the clones, I noticed that the color looked a little uneven, which sent me into a panic.

We went ahead and dumped the reservoir and refilled with water from the water machine. 5ppm. This is so we could spend some time shoving this RO filter up the behind of the people we bought it from.

With this new water, going into the second week, we were going to up the nutes 100, per lordjin, but we were concerned about lockout, so we just went up 50ppm. This was done in the GH week 2 ratio:

FloraGrow 2parts
FloraMicro 1part
FloraBloom 1part.

The end result was a reservoir (5ppm water), with 345ppm of nutes.

Here are the pictures of the leaves of the plants. :

View attachment 1872841 View attachment 1872842 View attachment 1872843 View attachment 1872844

Should we be thinking about Calmag on week 2???

Am I just panicking???

Really don't want a replay of the last mess.

Our temp issues and humidity have been worked out. Our RO filter will be fixed today, so this change is clean, as will be all the others.

Let me know what you think

No calmag?

What is your starting ppm with the RO?

That looks like mineral deficiency. Look at this photo I found that illustrated a mineral imbalance.

The Source said it's likely an iron deficiency associated with too much zinc or it could also be a zinc deficiency.
Calmag is extremely important with RO because the filtration process filters out the trace metals/minerals the plants need. Introduce 1ml per gallon of calmag to start, then increase gently.

vespa8910 · Nov 8, 2011

lordjin said:
No calmag?

What is your starting ppm with the RO?

The Source said it's likely an iron deficiency associated with too much zinc or it could also be a zinc deficiency.
Calmag is extremely important with RO because the filtration process filters out the trace metals/minerals the plants need. Introduce 1ml per gallon of calmag to start, then increase gently.

OK, the first week, we has about 40ppm water, which we were starting with. Our system had water in the lines, when that went through to the reservoir, our ppm was 70.

We then added 300ppm of the GH nutrients.

On our second week, we bought water, while we fixed the RO filter, so we had 5ppm water to start. We then added 345ppm of nutrients, at week 2 GH proportions.

That's where we are now.

Our RO filter is fixed, so for week three we will be starting with 10ppm.

We seem to have most of the systems working well now. Our A/C is fine. RO filter is finally working. Chiller is working. Dehumidifier is working. CO2 is working.

Now if we can just get these mineral imbalances worked out.

One question I have is this: If we started out with Clones from the previous grow (with all it's problems), are we bringing those problems over to the new grow?

Will the Calmag fix iron and zinc deficiencies?

Thanks.

lordjin · Nov 8, 2011

vespa8910 said:
OK, the first week, we has about 40ppm water, which we were starting with. Our system had water in the lines, when that went through to the reservoir, our ppm was 70.

We then added 300ppm of the GH nutrients.

On our second week, we bought water, while we fixed the RO filter, so we had 5ppm water to start. We then added 345ppm of nutrients, at week 2 GH proportions.

That's where we are now.

Our RO filter is fixed, so for week three we will be starting with 10ppm.

We seem to have most of the systems working well now. Our A/C is fine. RO filter is finally working. Chiller is working. Dehumidifier is working. CO2 is working.

Now if we can just get these mineral imbalances worked out.

One question I have is this: If we started out with Clones from the previous grow (with all it's problems), are we bringing those problems over to the new grow?

Will the Calmag fix iron and zinc deficiencies?

Thanks.

The importance of calmag for replacing trace metals and minerals cannot be understated when using RO. Your approach is solid. Give them a small quantiy of 1ml per gallon of calmag to start (you can use Botanicare or the GH Brand), then gradually strengthen to 3ml per gallon as your plants size up and higher feeding concentrations become appropriate.

No, unless the trait is on a genetic level, the prior difficulties you had won't carry over.

vespa8910 · Nov 11, 2011

I have a question about humidity. Given the weather shift to cold, we are now experiencing low humidity in the room.

Our average humidity is 35% to 40%.

Is this a problem?? The dehumidifier isn't even coming on.

lordjin · Nov 11, 2011

vespa8910 said:
I have a question about humidity. Given the weather shift to cold, we are now experiencing low humidity in the room.

Our average humidity is 35% to 40%.

Is this a problem?? The dehumidifier isn't even coming on.

Humid too high is a much greater problem then it being a little on the low side. There are actually benefits to low humidity (greater resin production, less chance of mold and mildew). Hydro grows are much better equipped to do well in low humidity environments than soil because there is no medium to dry out.

vespa8910 · Nov 11, 2011

lordjin said:
Humid too high is a much greater problem then it being a little on the low side. There are actually benefits to low humidity (greater resin production, less chance of mold and mildew). Hydro grows are much better equipped to do well in low humidity environments than soil because there is no medium to dry out.

Thanks for that. The garden is looking much better. Even before the calmag, it was starting to green up.

I added the calmag, day before yesterday, and I will be heading in to take a look at the progress. Last time, before it all went south, we had leaves that were over 8" long. If I can not screw this up, I think we will be ok.

On another note, I was thinking about switching over to the LED's for the next grow. If I get larger, the power bills will crush me.

What do you think about these?

Screen Shot 2011-11-11 at 5.48.17 PM.jpg

lordjin · Nov 11, 2011

vespa8910 said:
Thanks for that. The garden is looking much better. Even before the calmag, it was starting to green up.

I added the calmag, day before yesterday, and I will be heading in to take a look at the progress. Last time, before it all went south, we had leaves that were over 8" long. If I can not screw this up, I think we will be ok.

On another note, I was thinking about switching over to the LED's for the next grow. If I get larger, the power bills will crush me.

What do you think about these?
View attachment 1883338

Now you're getting into territory I know next to nothing about. Check out the results this guy gets with LED's. He uses something called Blackstar. You should ask him about that stuff. Peace.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/455904-500-watt-blackstar-grow-5-a.html

Update on aeroponics grow, with trimming question

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