Right wing nuts worldwide.

husita said:

Have different experience here in CZ. It´s perfectly OK to say populists are a threat to a society, but not that O.K. to say immigrants are dangerous, because of "oh, what would western europeans think of us, we are all eastern post-comunist rasists...".

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That just saddens me. I mean, by itself that's a good thing, worrying what other nations might think. Unfortunately, nowadays it's 'normal' to be against immigrants in the west. If you don't say immigrants are bad, you're not going to win more seats in an election in the west. All immigrants, african, arabs, laborers from east europe, even expats from the US, all must be labelled dangerous or just bad.

It's similar to how the US would again lose credibility if Trump would win, western Europeans are in no position to point fingers to east Europeans when it comes to dealing with immigrants. We're not as multiculti and tolerant as we pretended to be or previous generations were. It was more an idea than reality. Nowadays, they're too busy being and electing racists and anti-immigrants themselves. All the way from Scandinavia to Portugal to Italy and Greece.

husita said:

Next winner of ellections will be Andrej Babiš. He has no real political opinion but is interested only in his money and power. He would easily say "lets take half a milion immigrants here", and the other week, "not a single muslim women", if he gets any profit from that. That´s what populism means for me.

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Yeah that seems to be more common with populists nowadays, they don't even try to remain consistent and will say whatever they think will get them votes and a seat.

Gave us half a year Rutte extra. Not great, but it's downhill from here on out.

So our far-right populist Wilders won, finally as he sort of took over from the guy that was shot in 2002. But he won't be prime minister. Other parties will help him to a majority on certain issues, including migration but no crazy stuff. It's a bit weird situation, we're trying something new. None of the leaders of the winning coalition (4 parties) will be in the cabinet, they will stay in parliament. PM will be some somewhat neutral strawman we can send to other countries without looking like complete idiots, and at least half ministers will be professionals. Like doctors for Healthcare, university professor for Education, etc. Considering the election results it could be far worse, but it's not good either.

Many, including me, are hopeful for good reasons this cabinet won't last long regardless. Rutte's first cabinet was a minority cabinet with support of PVV (Wilders' party), which collapsed in 2012 after 2 years because Wilders turned out to be unreliable and unable to cooperate. But polls now show new elections would only increase Wilders' share so I guess they will just have to make a mess of it before people see it was a bad decision.

husita said:

Have different experience here in CZ. It´s perfectly OK to say populists are a threat to a society, but not that O.K. to say immigrants are dangerous, because of "oh, what would western europeans think of us, we are all eastern post-comunist rasists...". No one here is saying we should shot imigrants, except tiny groups of exots with no real power.
Next winner of ellections will be Andrej Babiš. He has no real political opinion but is interested only in his money and power. He would easily say "lets take half a milion immigrants here", and the other week, "not a single muslim women", if he gets any profit from that. That´s what populism means to me.

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A lot of people said something similar about Trump in 2016 here in America.

From scientist to columnist to pundit to minister to unelected Dutch PM...


Prominent member of the left, top level scientist, uni professor, experienced politician, atheist deist, but at least dislikes Christianity. Proposed by Wilders to become the PM of the new most rightwing incl far-right cabinet we ever had. Very likely to be approved by the others (just 1 left, more a formality it seems)

Wut?

"A Dutch scientist, entrepreneur and retired politician of the Labour Party (PvdA, the main party in the left wing, main opposition of far-right). He has earned a PhD degree in biology, specialised in molecular genetics. Worked as a postdoctoral researcher at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, California from and at the Laboratory of Molecular Biology in Cambridge, England where he conducted research on Caenorhabditis elegans, a nematode used as a model organism. In Cambridge he worked together with British later Nobel laureate John Sulston."

In 2007 Plasterk was appointed as Minister of Education, Culture and Science. In 2012 Minister of Interior and Kingdom Relations.

Became well-known for his columns in the main center-left newspaper and reading sort of columns in a TV show twice a week.

"Plasterk wrote on a wide range of subjects: he is an outspoken atheist. In 1997 he coined the term ietsisme ("somethingism") to refer to the religious belief that the Christian God does not exist, but that there is some greater force that created the universe and governs it. This position is roughly equivalent to 18th century Deism. He first strongly criticized the belief on intellectual grounds, calling it a "poor and irritating phenomenon", but later claimed that it was a mix of atheism and nostalgia, and much more sympathetic "than the idea of a cruel God that wants this misery""

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The other three rightwing parties in the cabinet don't want to help make Wilders PM, so by extension also not one of his cronies. It had to be someone somewhat neutral, but experienced as well.

He's still a member of the Labor party on paper but nowadays writes for the rightwing newpaper/gossip rag. Including a few columns negative about his own party, accusing them of being out of touch with the population and not-negative about Wilders. He suggested after the elections the 4 rightwing parties should form a cabinet and have a go at it. So he was appointed scout (by Wilders) for first round of negotiations. With that all Plasterk helped sort of legitimized the option for the initially reluctant other rightwing parties, and undermined the criticism from his own party, the main party on the left.

Contrary to popular belief, our PM has on paper zero power, unlike for example a minister. Rutte's power came from his diplomatic skills and like many of his predecessors was the leader of the largest party. Like I said in previous post, it's now just a strawman. Constitutionally, his job is to maintain unity and get ministers from different departments to agree. Added to that is representing NL in EU Council.

Re: immigration, they will declare an 'asylum crisis' and ask EU for an temporary opt-out and want to introduce border controls again, both against core EU treaties. EU unofficially responded questioning why politicians would propose these plans knowing they are not feasible.

EU parliament elections next month, where the parties are mostly coalitions of national parties. The (far-)right populists alliance ID, which includes Wilder’s PVV, France‘s Le Pen‘s party and several others, just kicked out AfD, Germany’s still rising far-right party, for being too nazi.



AfD is polling higher in Germany than Scholz’ party when it comes to the number of people they’ll get to supply to the EU parliament.

Meanwhile the liberal alliance in EU parliament is considering to expel Rutte’s party, leading party for years in NL, for forming a coalition nationally with far-right Wilders. Would add that to list of pros of being in EU.

Sativied said:

EU parliament elections next month,...

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I wonder who I'm going to vote for. The political groups are either socialists, catholics, lunatics or amateurs, and the candidates are the same.

husita said:

I wonder who I'm going to vote for. The political groups are either socialists, catholics, lunatics or amateurs, and the candidates are the same.

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I’m probably going to vote for someone from the Renew group, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renew_Europe, the one that is kicking out our main leading (neo-)liberal party for working with far-right and ending the cordon sanitaire.

They include Volt, which would fall in the “amateurs“ category, and D66, the real democratic liberals in NL. As well as Macron’s party from France, and ANO2011 in Czech Republic. Just as nationally, I tend to vote for a party/group, not a person or puppet. Which person gets the red mark usually depends on a quick look at resumes and watching some interviews but indeed the candidates don’t differ that much. No person who really stands out.

Leader of D66, in a better world would be our pm:

If you want to put French people first, you should put Europe first.
If you want to put Italians first, you should put Europe first.
If you want to put Dutch people first, you should put Europe first.
[…]
Questions of our time:
First: do you wish for green(er) industry, a healthier continent and a cleaner country?
Then put Europe first
If we work together, we can harness the power of the sun in Spain, of water in Scandinavia and the wind power of our North Sea.
We will create European funds to mine, develop and recycle the critical raw materials we desperately need.
And don’t forget: this is the time to heal nature and agriculture.
The soul of Europe is not only in our cities, squares and cathedrals,
but also in our forests, flatlands and hills.
Local food in a healthy landscape – that’s the mission.
No time to waste: let’s end all bio-industry and ban pesticides now!

Second: do you want more money at the end of the month?
Then put Europe first.
Let Europe enforce better pay and conditions.
Let Europe spread child care as a public good to all of Europe, setting people free and sparking economic growth.
We make our money in Europe.
So let’s strike fair and green trade deals around the globe.
This is not a time for complacency, but for ambition!
Not for less, but for more!

Third: do you want a digital world based on your values?
Then put Europe first.
Let’s stop building malfunctioning lie detection systems for migrants,
And start using AI to make wind turbines perform better;
Quit spending public money on algorithms for huge companies,
start using machine-learning to map deforestation;
Let’s use our collective digital power in a positive way.

Fourth: do you have concerns about migration?
Then put Europe first.
The time to make failed deals with dictators is over.
Now is the time to build safe and legal routes
for those rightfully seeking shelter in Europe.
Protect our common European border,
so we can keep our inner borders open.
And let’s be grown-ups: we can each take our fair share of refugees.
Many hands make light work.

And last, most fundamentally: do you want to take away the fear of war?
Then put Europe first.
Give Europe your blessing in June, so we can finally defend ourselves on this great continent!
We can only maintain our individual sovereignty if we guard our collective solidarity.
We spend 240 billion euros on defense, the same as the Chinese, 3 times more than the Russians, and yet we are not capable to defend ourselves.
This is an insult to taxpayers all across Europe and it has to change.
We need a European pillar within NATO that can operate independently if and when needed.
We need a European minister of defense.
We must stop shying away from our own potential strength. We are a peace machine that has entered a war operation. Let’s act like it!”

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Full transcript: https://d66.nl/nieuws/speech-rob-jetten-rally-for-europe/

Never was and probably never will be a big fan of EU (it wasn’t created and designed to be so large) but like your country mine is way too small to be not in EU and then if we have to be in it we better make sure it‘s our idea of EU and it does the right thing. It’s slow and half-asses too many subjects.

Do you have Vote Guides/Matchers/Pointers in Czechia? Like this one:


If anything it’s useful to exclude most options.

Change of plans, it’s not going to be Plasterk. He sort of recused himself, after (false) accusations of corruption and the impression of impartiality.

Instead, it’s going to be the head of the CIA. Well, the dutch equivalent that is. Former head of IND (decides which immigrant gets to stay and who doesn’t) and several top positions in different ministries. Not sure if good or bad yet, leaning to good based on some older interviews and quotes the media dug up. He’s not well known, the guy who keeps tellings us there’s a serious chance of a terrorist attack. Like Plasterk but based on full intel access agrees with some views of Wilders (far right leader who won elections), including that we don’t want islam schools (we don’t, they factually sell crap to kids that doesn’t align with western values, that’s not what we meant with freedom of education). Aside from that, made clear he’s not team Wilders. Again, mostly just a straw man, a chairman, nothing like a president or worse, king. Would have preferred Plasterk but same thing: sure as hell beats sending Wilders abroad to represent us.


“Schoof, 67, is currently the most senior civil servant in the justice ministry. He has previously headed the counter-terrorism unit NCTV and the immigration service IND as well as the domestic security service AIVD. He was also head of the crisis team in the wake of the downing of MH17.”

Not a member of any party.

Schoof, pronounced not skoove but S-clear your throat like you swallowed a fly-oaf.

CNN… many others too, it's like they wrote the articles upfront and before publishing only had to edit whether far-right won a majority, or won the race in a multiparty system where they don't have anything near a majority, or if that's not the case, made gains. While it's alarming regardless, I posted quite a lot about several areas in this thread where it's looking increasingly bad, the various scenarios are typically of a different order.

To put it in perspective... well, first a reminder that the EU level 'parties' are groups of parties from different members states. So the socialist parties from usually more than few countries form a group, so to the liberals, the greens, the superlefties, far-right.... Every EU nation gets a number of people to represent them in EU parliament, and these elections determine which parties get to send them and how many. It does not directly change compositions in national politics, but in practice, well, the headline in the screenshot above isn't technically wrong either.

Far-right gets 58 seats in EU parliament, out of 720 total. Add what they call hard-right 'soft euro-sceptic', aka the conservatives, and they have a total of 130 combined.

In fact... compared to last election 5 years less people voted for parties in the far-right 'ID' group and a the hard-right conservatives. About 8% is 'unattached'/independents and I don't know how many of those are part of far-right parties on a national level. Overall they made some gains but are divided themselves.

Obviously 58 too many in any case. Center-right (christian democrat folks like Ursula) remains largest. As I pointed out in this or another thread, on the EU level now the center has the same choice, work with the left, again, or work with far right in attempt to stop losing votes to them like has happened on a national level in several member states.

Some national examples:
- nothing shocking in NL, Wilder's Freedom party made large gains but that's partly cause they only had 1 seat. AND, the 'green-left-labor' party 'won' nr 1 spot. The latter didn't actually win anything, NL got more seats because of Brexit but unlike in last year's national election far right is no longer largest party.... in theory.
- In Austria, another self-proclaimed Freedom party, did become the largest but got less than expected.
- In Germany, 1 out of 6 voted AfD nazi party, 1 out of 3 CDU (christian democrats, currently not ruling since Merkel quit). Lower than expectations, however, largest than Scholz's party so prominents are calling for new elections on national level too.
- Almost 30% in Italy voted for "former-fascist" PM Meloni's party.
- Orban in Hungary having a bad day, an opposition party who wants to 'eject' him got 30%, Orban's party still in the 40s but far less than expected.
- Sweden Democracts, with neonazi roots: "We are going to need to think about why we aren’t growing,”
- France... tf France... Macron throws towel in ring... shattering the image I wanted to have of him (hey you gotta try something in these times...). France voted twice as much far right as Germany, less than 1 out of 6 voted for Macron's party and thus Renew group (same group I indirectly voted for), and nearly 1 out of 3 voted Le Pen's far-right.


- Belgium similar situation, PM just resigned in tears. They had various national/local elections too, far-right didn't win but conservative right did.

A imo better headline when it comes to EU as a whole rather than what happened in France for example.


“Even if it is not about to dominate the European Parliament, the far right’s growing influence is not to be taken lightly. Its normalization, facilitated by the mainstream, has long-term consequences for European policymaking and democracy.”

That’s what I’ve been saying for a while, the normalization is not to be taken lightly. It creates a new default position from which far right isn’t ‘far‘ anymore.

EPP president vows to deny far right "any kind of influence" in European Parliament

Ok, ok... just checking. Seen plenty of center-right christian conservatives don't mind a little fascism, at least not as much as progressive left policies. But he's pretty clear about it, the center-right in EU parliament will not work with far-right.

Manfred Weber, chair of the European People’s Party [christian dems, conservatives, liberal conservatives from various nations], said his grouping will aim to shut far-right parties out of any governing coalition.
Speaking after the EPP was predicted to remain the largest grouping in Brussels, Weber urged more mainstream parties to join the EPP’s “pro-European, pro-democratic alliance.”

“The European People’s Party is among the founding fathers and mothers of today’s European Union,” Weber said.

“We created today’s Europe and that’s why all those who want to destroy our Europe are our enemies and we will fight against them. We will not allow them to have any kind of influence on the European level.”

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Suckers... all those millions of people who voted far-right populists.

Not like some of those EPP members didn't try though...


It's perhaps the appreciation for the EU itself that prevents a repetition of center-right working with far right on a national level occurring in EU parliament as well, the far-right parties are usually very eurosceptic, i.e. anti-EU. Some tried to soften their tone but remain on the opposite side when it comes to those christian/conservative/center-right parties who are all in on EU. Far-right appears to prove the theory that to have influence in the EU you need to be part of it and play ball.

Sativied said:

EPP president vows to deny far right "any kind of influence" in European Parliament

Ok, ok... just checking. Seen plenty of center-right christian conservatives don't mind a little fascism, at least not as much as progressive left policies. But he's pretty clear about it, the center-right in EU parliament will not work with far-right.



Suckers... all those millions of people who voted far-right populists.

Not like some of those EPP members didn't try though...

Von der Leyen tried to make friends with Meloni. It backfired.

Italy’s leader is too far to the right for the European Commission chief’s coalition allies.

www.politico.eu

It's perhaps the appreciation for the EU itself that prevents a repetition of center-right working with far right on a national level occurring in EU parliament as well, the far-right parties are usually very eurosceptic, i.e. anti-EU. Some tried to soften their tone but remain on the opposite side when it comes to those christian/conservative/center-right parties who are all in on EU. Far-right appears to prove the theory that to have influence in the EU you need to be part of it and play ball.

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This is not good news but also not the shocker it could have been for those who follow this forum, thanks to your informative posts on the subject.

Some of the results, when looking at it per member state, justify some of the headlines but then it works both ways. You're right over all not good news, no matter the choice of words, but there IS good news too:

In Hungary, currently EU's bad apple, party of Putin's friend Orban came out winner but went from nearly 52% to 44%, he lost more than far-right won in some places where "far-right surged"...



TISZA, led by a former Orban ally, center-right, in the EPP group (the christian dem/conservatives, largest and non-excludable group in EU), and like them anti-Orban. A new party that unlike others, older ones, is starting to look like a genuine competitor for Orban in a presidential election. Which is elected indirectly by parliament and won't be Orban if these results translate to national vote... which they normally don't cause fortunately far-right is anti-EU AND dumb, as in less turnout cause it's EU... but in Hungary this EU vote was considered an Orban popularity vote.

Denmark confirms something I started noticing decades ago: the center cannot be all idealistic soft about immigration as it feeds the right. In Denmark there is no shift to far-right, more like a shift from center to left. Because they are pretty tough on immigration already, defying EU, it's not an issue a populist can hijack.

Sweden similar story, far-right lost seats, greens won seats. Immigration not as big of a thing there as in the south. And in Finland far-right was expected to get 1 out of 6 votes and got less than half of that instead, only 7.6%, while socialist left nearly doubled to 17%, reversing a trend,

In NL far-right surged too international media says. Fake news.... Far-right won virtually nothing. Grey bars below are results from 2019. FvD is far-right, even worse than Wilders's PVV. Anti-vax, pro Putin, qanon fan, batshit folk, MTG would be in that party. Wilders' final blow to his competitor was confronting him with moonlanding conspiracies in parliament. Like I said we had more seats this time because of Brexit. Far-right went from 5 to 6 seats. Not a surge, and overall not at all reflecting a shift to the right. Volt is all the way left, young and idealistic, entered with a 2 seats, of which one comes from the center. Rest is center-right or left. Winner is green-labor.



And that's compared to EU elections 5 years ago, which include pandemic, energy crisis, wars. That's a long time. Compared to last year's national elections, it's looking up for the good guys.

In Slovakia the left-nationalist anti-Ukraine-support populists lost and 'progressive Slovakia' won most votes.

Donald Tusk, savior of Poland, won on EU level as well and they confirmed most of Poland isn't as batshit conservative as some of the louder ones.

The most covered bad news can use some nuance too.

PM Meloni's ruling party in Italy (in a coalition from center-right to far right that doesn't even have the majority support) supposedly made massive gains to. Yes, they quadrupled the number of seats in EU compared to 2019, but, it's almost entirely in line with the national elections in 2022.

In Germany, even though the wall is physically gone, the difference between the west and east is still very noticeable. By far most of the far-right gains were in the smaller east. West-Germany is one of the founders of EU.

France... Macron did throw in the towel (of parliament, not his own position as president), but he's preparing for a rematch, and is confident he can win it. It's possible Le Pen's far-right becomes the largest, and would provide the Prime Minister, but 30% of vote on EU level doesn't in any scenario translate to a majority in parliament or winning a presidential election.

Le Pen's successor, possible but still unlikely future far-right leader of France

Another side effect of calling national elections is that that lil nazi fuck will be kept busy, not allowing him a lot of time in Brussels.

My guess is that Macron wants to show EU and the world he still has France and the French government behind him, he's still the boss, can't be dismissed or ignored on EU stage even though his party and group lost.

Austria... nothing to nuance They'll have national elections later this year and it looks, also in polls for that election, far-right will come out as winner.

Sativied said:

The most covered bad news can use some nuance too.

PM Meloni's ruling party in Italy (in a coalition from center-right to far right that doesn't even have the majority support) supposedly made massive gains to. Yes, they quadrupled the number of seats in EU compared to 2019, but, it's almost entirely in line with the national elections in 2022.

In Germany, even though the wall is physically gone, the difference between the west and east is still very noticeable. By far most of the far-right gains were in the smaller east. West-Germany is one of the founders of EU.

France... Macron did throw in the towel (of parliament, not his own position as president), but he's preparing for a rematch, and is confident he can win it. It's possible Le Pen's far-right becomes the largest, and would provide the Prime Minister, but 30% of vote on EU level doesn't in any scenario translate to a majority in parliament or winning a presidential election.

Le Pen's successor, possible but still unlikely future far-right leader of France

Jordan Bardella emerges as the new face of Europe's far right

Jordan Bardella, the far-right party leader who delivered a decisive blow to President Emmanuel Macron's alliance in European elections, is a charismatic 28-year-old celebrated by his followers as a transformative figure. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

Another side effect of calling national elections is that that lil nazi fuck will be kept busy, not allowing him a lot of time in Brussels.

My guess is that Macron wants to show EU and the world he still has France and the French government behind him, he's still the boss, can't be dismissed or ignored on EU stage even though his party and group lost.

Austria... nothing to nuance They'll have national elections later this year and it looks, also in polls for that election, far-right will come out as winner.

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Austria has had an affection for fascists that doesn’t seem to soften with time.

An opinion piece in the Guardian that strikes a more alarming tone about the elections. Perhaps the author having just visited a region that strongly supports Le Pen — and even harder authoritarians — skews it, but it is plain US is not alone in falling victim to hard-right populists.