Your logic is dizzying

UncleBuck said:

no, but i do think common sense gun safety can prevent or mitigate the massacres. i can show you that it is demonstrably true that less people will die in these massacres with simple, common sense gun safety.



that's a scapegoat line of bullshit that you are just parroting for the NRA, good job on carrying their water for them. they need good little stooges like you to do their bidding.

there is nothing about aspberger's (which will soon be removed from DSM diagnoses and placed into the broader autism spectrum) that predisposes someone to mass murder.

you have succesfully exposed yourself as a hack. congrats.

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Woah you really need to calm down buddy. If you think bringing up mental health was such an invalid point then you have got a lot to learn. Let me know when you can debate in a civilized manner as opposed to a child.

GrowinTheDank said:

Woah you really need to calm down buddy. If you think bringing up mental health was such an invalid point then you have got a lot to learn. Let me know when you can debate in a civilized manner as opposed to a child.

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tell me all about how asperberger's predisposes one to mass murder then.

until then, you are just carrying water for the NRA, nothing more and nothing less.

desert dude said:

And that is the main reason to have a written constitution, and the main argument against the notion of a "living constitution". It is hard to change, so the ignoramuses and the crafty sociopaths who herd them have a difficult time ruining the country, though they try mightily. Because we have a written constitution, all of these "common sense" gun control laws are invalid. Ignore, or "reinterpret" the constitution at your great peril.

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I wish what you say was true. The gun laws may be invalid, but they are still enforced. The SCOTUS has begun to clearly ignore the Constitution when it suits them. The rule of law has been perverted to the rule of public opinion. Failing to get the legislation the Presidency wanted, they impose their will through "regulation" or edict. Our country has reached a tipping point.

Red1966 said:

I wish what you say was true. The gun laws may be invalid, but they are still enforced. The SCOTUS has begun to clearly ignore the Constitution when it suits them. The rule of law has been perverted to the rule of public opinion. Failing to get the legislation the Presidency wanted, they impose their will through "regulation" or edict. Our country has reached a tipping point.

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i bet you were PISSED when they legislated equal rights for blacks from the bench!

UncleBuck said:

i bet you were PISSED when they legislated equal rights for blacks from the bench!

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Those Yankee Devils, setting the negros free.

UncleBuck said:

i bet you were PISSED when they legislated equal rights for blacks from the bench!

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If we as a country had actually followed the preamble of the constitution "ALL men are created equal and endowed with inalienable rights" slavery would have been deemed unconstitutional. It took laws from our government to make slavery possible. Correcting that wrong was long over due but I can't celebrate when a government fixes their own blatant fuckups without pointing out they were the cause first.

Some citizens are fine with ignoring the constitution when it suits their views, gay marriage and gun control would be just two examples. Warrantless wiretaps is a biggie too.

UncleBuck said:

no, but i do think common sense gun safety can prevent or mitigate the massacres. i can show you that it is demonstrably true that less people will die in these massacres with simple, common sense gun safety.



that's a scapegoat line of bullshit that you are just parroting for the NRA, good job on carrying their water for them. they need good little stooges like you to do their bidding.

there is nothing about aspberger's (which will soon be removed from DSM diagnoses and placed into the broader autism spectrum) that predisposes someone to mass murder.

you have succesfully exposed yourself as a hack. congrats.

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Obama, an NRA stooge!

""I think there are a vast majority of responsible gun owners out there who recognize that we can't have a situation in which somebody with severe psychological problems is able to get the kind of high capacity weapons that this individual in Newtown obtained and gun down our kids," he added. "And, yes, it's going to be hard."
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-wants-gun-violence-measures-passed-2013-140306667--finance.html

UncleBuck said:

tell me all about how asperberger's predisposes one to mass murder then.

until then, you are just carrying water for the NRA, nothing more and nothing less.

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You must be confused. Where did I ever mention aspergers??? I'm not quite sure why you're repeatedly bringing that up...please help me out here lol. Oh and btw, many people who suffer from severe mental illnesses never receive a technical diagnosis. So you could have someone who is really schizophrenic, but for all you know they simply suffer from aspergers.

I'd hate to 'carry water for the NRA', whatever that means, so I'll tend to your silly little argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#Characteristics

A lack of demonstrated empathy has a significant impact on aspects of communal living for persons with Asperger syndrome.[SUP][2][/SUP] Individuals with AS experience difficulties in basic elements of social interaction, which may include a failure to develop friendships or to seek shared enjoyments or achievements with others (for example, showing others objects of interest), a lack of social or emotional reciprocity (social "games" give-and-take mechanic), and impaired nonverbal behaviors in areas such as eye contact, facial expression, posture, and gesture.[SUP][1][/SUP]

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[SUP]^^^ Read and learn. People with AS suffer from severe social issues which in turn can lead to depression, anxiety, anger, and honestly anything else you can think of. Would you agree that anger is a plausible trigger for mass murders? If yes, then you've got the answer to your question.[/SUP]

GrowinTheDank said:

You must be confused. Where did I ever mention aspergers??? I'm not quite sure why you're repeatedly bringing that up...please help me out here lol. Oh and btw, many people who suffer from severe mental illnesses never receive a technical diagnosis. So you could have someone who is really schizophrenic, but for all you know they simply suffer from aspergers.

I'd hate to 'carry water for the NRA', whatever that means, so I'll tend to your silly little argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#Characteristics
[SUP]^^^ Read and learn. People with AS suffer from severe social issues which in turn can lead to depression, anxiety, anger, and honestly anything else you can think of. Would you agree that anger is a plausible trigger for mass murders? If yes, then you've got the answer to your question.[/SUP]

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That paints Aspergerites with a pretty broad brush. i have it, but I have a rather different syndrome. Let's not indulge our instinct to bash the Other. cn

cannabineer said:

That paints Aspergerites with a pretty broad brush. i have it, but I have a rather different syndrome. Let's not indulge our instinct to bash the Other. cn

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Honestly I don't even have any interest in specifically talking about Aspergers. I'm really not sure why Buck's going on about it. My point is mental health needs to be the concern rather than gun control. I will continue to stand by that point.

GrowinTheDank said:

Honestly I don't even have any interest in specifically talking about Aspergers. I'm really not sure why Buck's going on about it. My point is mental health needs to be the concern rather than gun control. I will continue to stand by that point.

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I tend to concur. Reagan gutted mental health first in his state, then nationwide. A classic case of cutting unpopular spending, and an equally classic argument against the politics of popularity. I despise populists. cn

GrowinTheDank said:

Honestly I don't even have any interest in specifically talking about Aspergers. I'm really not sure why Buck's going on about it. My point is mental health needs to be the concern rather than gun control. I will continue to stand by that point.

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Buck is going on about Asperger's because the media claims that Adam Lanza had it. I have no idea if Lanza did have it, or not.

desert dude said:

Buck is going on about Asperger's because the media claims that Adam Lanza had it. I have no idea if Lanza did have it, or not.

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I wonder if Asperger syndrome makes for peculiarly good marksmen. We're sticklers for detail, and marksmanship is a game of managing the details. Sadly, my own marksmanship has been mediocre. cn

cannabineer said:

I wonder if Asperger syndrome makes for peculiarly good marksmen. We're sticklers for detail, and marksmanship is a game of managing the details. Sadly, my own marksmanship has been mediocre. cn

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I thought Asperger's people were extremely focused, as you say, but only on their own particular interests, hence an Asperger type would only be a good marksman if that happened to be their narrow interest.

I am quite good with a pistol, but rifles generally bore me.

cannabineer said:

I tend to concur. Reagan gutted mental health first in his state, then nationwide. A classic case of cutting unpopular spending, and an equally classic argument against the politics of popularity. I despise populists. cn

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Wrong. It was Camelot, not Mr. ET.


"Mental Retardation and Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act of 1963) was an act to provide federal funding for community mental health centers in the
United States. This legislation was passed as part of John F. Kennedy 's New Frontier. It led to considerable deinstitutionalization."

desert dude said:

I thought Asperger's people were extremely focused, as you say, but only on their own particular interests, hence an Asperger type would only be a good marksman if that happened to be their narrow interest.

I am quite good with a pistol, but rifles generally bore me.

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My next door neighbor has Asperger's, and he is apparently into bonsai because he will sit out in his front yard with a pair of scissors sculpting a small pine tree that he planted for hours on end. The end result is amazing.

I bet he could manicure the shit out of some weed!

Canna Sylvan said:

Wrong. It was Camelot, not Mr. ET.


"Mental Retardation and Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act of 1963) was an act to provide federal funding for community mental health centers in the
United States. This legislation was passed as part of John F. Kennedy 's New Frontier. It led to considerable deinstitutionalization."

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One of the things that makes this discussion complex is the deinstitutionalization isn't of itself a good or bad thing. I believe Kennedy's act combined good intentions and bad psychology with a perception (at the time perhaps partially correct) that the mentally ill were being overinstitutionalized. One of three institutionalized patients were released under Kennedy's act and were successfully integrated into their homes etc. But what that left was the hard core of hard-to-treat inpatients. In a population experiencing the start of deinst., it would not be hard to find "marginals" who could do as well or better out of the hospital. But the rest of the deinst. push was based on the idea that if a little worked, more will be better.
And that's when we got into the cost-driven (as opposed to results-driven) programs of the 80s.
Now of course there is a reinstitutionalization push going on, but the new housing is in prisons. This is a rather unsuitable place to warehouse the mentally ill, but once again cost is the big factor, and a nut in the clink is "out of sight and out of mind", so to speak. Not the cost to society, mind you, but monies coming in to the private jailers. The fox is guarding that particular henhouse imo. cn

GrowinTheDank said:

You must be confused. Where did I ever mention aspergers??? I'm not quite sure why you're repeatedly bringing that up...please help me out here lol. Oh and btw, many people who suffer from severe mental illnesses never receive a technical diagnosis. So you could have someone who is really schizophrenic, but for all you know they simply suffer from aspergers.

I'd hate to 'carry water for the NRA', whatever that means, so I'll tend to your silly little argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#Characteristics
[SUP]^^^ Read and learn. People with AS suffer from severe social issues which in turn can lead to depression, anxiety, anger, and honestly anything else you can think of. Would you agree that anger is a plausible trigger for mass murders? If yes, then you've got the answer to your question.[/SUP]

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still see nothing that predisposes one to mass murder for being part of the autism spectrum.

UncleBuck said:

still see nothing that predisposes one to mass murder for being part of the autism spectrum.

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Violence in autistic people is not unheard of:


http://www.salon.com/2009/03/26/bauer_autism/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism

"There are many anecdotal reports, but few systematic studies, of aggression and violence in individuals with ASD. The limited data suggest that, in children with mental retardation, autism is associated with aggression, destruction of property, and tantrums. A 2007 study interviewed parents of 67 children with ASD and reported that about two-thirds of the children had periods of severe tantrums and about one-third had a history of aggression, with tantrums significantly more common than in non-autistic children with language impairments.[SUP][29][/SUP] A 2008 Swedish study found that, of individuals aged 15 or older discharged from hospital with a diagnosis of ASD, those who committed violent crimes were significantly more likely to have other psychopathological conditions such as psychosis."

desert dude said:

...anecdotal reports...

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lol, anecdotal reports. way to go, rat.

by the way, the autism spectrum is a big spectrum. just FYI.