wtf need help with ppm

Since i started using cal-mag when mixing nutes up, the final reading is over 2000 (meter only reads to 1999, anything over that returns 1) i have carefully measured everything out, Floragrow, Floramicro, Florabloom nutes. Is it better to use the cal-mag with the nutes and add water until at the desired ppm? Or just
stop using it altogether? I saw a post on here the other day implying that if your using RO water you should add a supplement of cal-mag.

How are you using your flora series nutes? as instructed on the bottle? I have been using the chart on the back of the bottle for all phases of growing, However i am getting conflicting stories that you don't use all 3 of them together - Only Floragrow for grow Floramicro not mentioned, and only Florabloom for flowering.
Here is a link to a PDF, it a Botanicare feeding chart (nice little chart)
http://thegrowlight.com/files/product_2221/BotanicareFeedSchedule.pdf

How many ml of each are you adding per gallon of water. And what is your initial ppm of your water before anything is added. I use the GH 3-part Flora Series, FloraMicro, FloraGro, & FloraBloom. Along with Hydroguard, CAL-MAG & Superthrive.

To 4 gallons of water (ppm = 200) I added the following:

20 ml Hydroguard
20 ml CAL-MAG
15 ml Superthrive
32 ml FloraMicro
12 ml FloraGro
56 ml FloraBloom

Ending ppm = 1232 @ 68.7 degrees F

Adjusted ph to 5.54

I'm starting the 5th week of flowering.

here's a link to the GH feeding schedule that I modify to get about midway between their recommended ppm levels

http://gthydro.com/images/feedingcharts/GH_Feed-Chart.pdf

here's a link to the GH ppm caculator

General Hydroponics Flora Nutrient PPM Calculator

good luck

Go Green...Grow

For a flowering solution i added the values below to 1 gallon of water as a test run:

FloraGrow 5 ml
FloraMicro 8 ml
FloraBloom 15 ml
Cal-Mag Plus 5 ml

the ppm was over 2000, this mix is from the feeding chart that i posted a link to in my original post.

What is your water's ppm before anything else is added?

Better check your meter calibration on the ppm. Are you looking at the ppm or the tds? The 2000+ reading sounds more like a tds rather than a ppm because when I switch my Hanna combo meter between ppm and tds I get around 1200 for the ppm and 2000 for the tds.

My meter was out of whack until started calibrating every month as routine.

I plugged your formula into the GH nutrient calculator and it calculated a ppm of 718 without the Cal-Mag. I wouldn't expect 5 ml of it to take the ppm from 700 to 2000 though. Something is not reading correctly.

Your formula is pretty close to what I follow 3..2...1 then 1...2...3. The ratio of Gro, Micro and Bloom during vegetative then flowering.

Let me know how it works out.

Here's a mix for transition to flower (tallest plant is 5")

Yesterday
Flushed plants with 1 gallon of water for each plant, cleaned out res and started with:
18 gallons of water ppm=6
FloraGro 3/4 cup ppm=600
FloraMicro 3/4 cup ppm=1517
FloraBloom 3/4 cup ppm=1899
added 1st gallon of water ppm=1799 (to dilute)
added 2nd gallon of water ppm=1697 (to dilute)
added 3rd gallon of water ppm=1620 (to dilute)
added 4th gallon of water ppm=1550 (to dilute)
added 5th gallon of water ppm=1472 (to dilute)
added 6th gallon of water ppm=1425 (to dilute)
ph of 5
Final ph=5.8 ajusted
Final ppm=1448


Today
Starting ppm=1484
added 7th gallon ppm=1421
added 8th gallon ppm=1369
so far there is a total of 26 gallons in the res, i just added 26
drops of Superthrive Final ppm=1372

I am using a Hannah meter 9813

Your ppm still looks off. Check your meter calibration.

Reason: 3/4 cup = 6 ounces. 1 ounce = 29.57 milliliters. So 6 time 29.57 = 177.42 milliliters = 6 ounces. or about 10 milliliters per gallon of water. 177.42 divided by 18 gallons of water = 9.86 milliliters per gallon.

With 10 ml of each of the three your ppm should be between 750 to 800. before any other supplements. Since your initial ppm is so low, I'm guessing your meter is reading correctly.

I clean and calibrate my meter once a month, the cleaning process is a 2 separate solutions part A and part B, the probe is placed in part A for 5 minutes, rinsed, then placed in part B for 5 minutes, rinsed, then back in part A for 5 minutes cleaning complete.

Then on to solution 4.01 calibrated, rinsed then solution 7.01 calibrated then rinsed ph calibration complete.

Now as far as the calibration for the ppm portion of the meter goes, I bought some calibration solution from the local hydro shop, it was 2 bottles (here's the link)

Grow Lights & Hydroponics from Interior Gardens Grow Light Supply :: pH/ EC/ TDS Meters and Solutions :: TDS Testers and Control :: Genesis TDS Calibration 8oz

i was not sure on how to use both solutions so i asked, i was told i didn't need the 1412 (989 ppm) all i needed was the 1500 ppm (2142us) then i asked why do they package them together and i was told the other was for a different meter then i have. (so i tossed it) It made sense to me at the time because when the meter was new it came with some small packages of activation/storage solution and a 1500ppm solution, there was no 989 ppm solution.

Also the way the meter is calibrated it has 2 dials on it one for calibrating the ph the other for TDS. Here's the link to my meter:

Grow Lights & Hydroponics from Interior Gardens Grow Light Supply :: pH/ EC/ TDS Meters and Solutions :: Hanna pH EC TDS Meter Hanna hand held with probe cord

It really didn't make sense to me, but i was, and still am new to all this high tech gadgetry, the one thing that did make sense was when i calibrated the ph using the 4.01 solution, i turned the dial until it reads a ppm of 4 on the meter, and then moving on to the ph 7.01 solution the meter came out right. but had it not read 7 then the dial would have to be adjusted to read a ph of 7 and if that was the case, then the ph 4 would be off (because i adjusted the dial) i have not run in to that problem yet.

So i have been calibrating the meter only using only the 1500ppm (2142us) solution.
I am assuming that would be the same scenario when calibrating the ppm portion of the meter. (pertaining to adjusting the dial and using the 989 ppm solution)

Also when i bought the meter they had another one that measures the temp of the water, i inquired about that as well and they said i didn't need to know the water temp when taking a ppm reading, that is was only used for scientific applications, so back to the calibration, when calibrating the meter i have never checked the temp of the calibration solution or the water being tested, i have only used the ppm 1500 solution. in a sense i hope i was told the wrong info as far as the 989 ppm goes at least if that's the case i have discovered my problem (i hope anyways) So my last question for now is when calibrating the ppm portion of the meter using the ppm 1500, 2142 us solution should the reading be 1500 ppm or should the reading be 2142? maybe this could be the problem.

Just an update, I learned a lot about my Hanna 9813-0 meter today had some good email correspondence and just wound up giving Pete a call (the guy i was emailing back and forth) I did not realize that the meter had a built in temp gauge and the differences between the 9813-0 and the 9813-5 is the 9813-5 can display the temp whereas the 9813-0 just reads the temp. So if your new to this meter leave it sit in the mix so it can adjust to the temp for a minute or two.

I was also informed that when you calibrate and put the probe in the 1500 solution your better off pushing the EC button and calibrating that until you get a reading of 2.14 the machine will automatically calibrate the ppm part.

The light green coloring on the leaves seems to be turning into a more normal green color
but the tips of the leaf ends are still pointing downwards, i hope they turn around. What is the probable cause of these leaf tips? I would like to flower but want to get this leaf problem taken care of first.

I read some info on various web pages that most of time the amount of nutrients that manufacturers list on their respective products is twice of what's really needed?
What's your take on it?

So i am assuming that if you have a 50/50 mix (half off what the bottles label says) you can manipulate the plant by letting the ppm rise over a couple of days and see how the plant reacts to that concentration, if the plant shows signs of stress or other abnormalities you should bring it down a little.

This whole ppm thing is a lot different this time around, i am on my second grow. The first grow was a bagseed, I started with about 5 seeds and 1 was a female, so i grew it all the way to harvest, i was really surprised i yielded 1 1/4 ounces dried and cured.
That plant was hardy i ran the ppm during veg and flowering at 1800-1850 and it just grew. what a great feeling of accomplishment.
However this time i am growing white rhino and it seems like it's a little more touchy to the higher ppm's.

Your're using the tds (total dissolved solids or us) rather than ppm! OK Your 2000+ reading is probably correct, but I haven't seen too many charts giving the nutrient strenght in that measure. Usually just ppm (part per million).

The ppm nutrient strength is going to be betwee 60% and 70% of what your us or tds reading is. I haven't done any research yet, but I believe that there is a conversion factor to convert us to ppm. Example: us = 2120
ppm =60% of 2120 or 1272.

By the way I have the Hanna HI 98129 Waterproof combo meter pH and EC with both ppm and us. Also has a temperature reading for temp compensation on the ppm. Water temperature does make a difference in your readings. I can watch the a big digital reading change on ppm from when I first drop the meter into the reservoir (nice waterproof feature) until the temp stablizes a few seconds later of several hundred ppm strength. Especially if your going between multiple reservoirs with plants in different stages. I have the 1382 ppm and pH 7.01 calibration solutions and the pH storage solution.

What's the difference from the 1500 ppm solution and the 1382 ppm solution?

I am not understanding the tds reading as apposed to the ppm reading. My views on it are this, It's two different methods to achieve the same goal. what is the ppm. (it's just that the final results are displayed in a different manner.)

If your meter goes over the ppm reading of 1999 it will return a value of one, so in essence you have no idea if the ppm is just over 2000 maybe like 2100 or is it at 2500 or even worse 2700, you never really know, (you would really have to mess up bad to get them high of numbers.)

The EC portion of the meter can read up to 4.2, so if your using EC you know where you are when the ppm is over 2000, So just by doing the math you can figure out what the ppm really is, based on the tds reading. A 4.2 tds reading is equivalent to a ppm of 2940, A 1.9 tds reading is equivalent to a ppm of 1330.

I don't understand in your previous post you said:
Your're using the tds (total dissolved solids or us) rather than ppm! OK Your 2000+ reading is probably correct

How can the ppm be OK at 2000+ if i am using the tds portion of the meter? you don't get ppm readings from using the tds portion of the meter. ppm numbers are usually four digits with no decimals, the tds readings are only three digits with a decimal point.I am sorry but i am missing something here. I really want to understand.

Would you share your nutes mixture for vegetative and flowering?

I"m back to my original statement... Your meter is not reading ppm correctly. The formulas that you have posted I have run through the GH nutrient calculator and was much lower than you were showing plus I mixed the same ratios of nutes and water and got pretty similar ppm readings as the GH nutrient calculator.

Check your meter.

Do you multiply the reading from the nutrient calculator by 2.5?

Why would I multiply the calculated ppm by 2.5?

I talked with somebody from GH and they told me that the final number should be multiplied by 2.5, I even asked the guy why don't they tell you that on the web page, and why is not just factored in? He said he was not sure, but it's been like that a long time. Could it be just another person that has no idea what there talking about?

OK i was just messing around with the ppm calculator, I selected teaspoons for the unit of measure, I selected 7 gallons of water (these figures are for transition to flowering) which is 2 teaspoons per gallon of each bottle. I used 14 teaspoons of FloraGro, 14 teaspoons of FloraMicro, and 14 teaspoons of FloraBloom, the calculator returned a ppm of 762. I believe this to be inaccurate but if you multiply it by 2.5 you would get a ppm of 1905. The 1905 is really close to what i wound up with. Yes that sounds awfully high to me, I think it should be maintained at around 1400 to 1600 ppm (could be lower to be safer, it all depends on what your plants are telling you) but if you have your batches matching the ppm calculator, you are not getting the most out of your hydro system
I emailed them this morning and asked about multiplying it by 2.5 I believe it to be correct though. Now you can also see how the ppm went over 2000 after adding the cal-mag.

Bk4mr said:

OK i was just messing around with the ppm calculator, I selected teaspoons for the unit of measure, I selected 7 gallons of water (these figures are for transition to flowering) which is 2 teaspoons per gallon of each bottle. I used 14 teaspoons of FloraGro, 14 teaspoons of FloraMicro, and 14 teaspoons of FloraBloom, the calculator returned a ppm of 762. I believe this to be inaccurate but if you multiply it by 2.5 you would get a ppm of 1905. The 1905 is really close to what i wound up with. Yes that sounds awfully high to me, I think it should be maintained at around 1400 to 1600 ppm (could be lower to be safer, it all depends on what your plants are telling you) but if you have your batches matching the ppm calculator, you are not getting the most out of your hydro system
I emailed them this morning and asked about multiplying it by 2.5 I believe it to be correct though. Now you can also see how the ppm went over 2000 after adding the cal-mag.

Click to expand...

If you read your nutrient labels you'll see Calcium and Magnesium as ingredients. I know some of the older grow publications recommended adding these but if you aren't seeing a Calcium and/or Magnesium deficiency perhaps you'd be better off leaving this out?

I have consistently had pretty bad magnesium deficiency and tried epsom salt in the past. I think it's easier to use the cal-mag though. I use 5 ml of cal-mag per gallon of water to keep on the low side. Cal-mag jumps the ppm quickly. At this lower level the deficiency has stopped on the strains I have.

Here is a link to help estimate the nutrient strength of the GH 3-part Flora series of Micro, Gro & Bloom.

CannaStats - Cal-O-Rama

If your nutrient strength is too high back it off, but keep your ratio the same.
Vegetative Micro 2 parts, Gro 3 parts, Bloom 1 part
Transition Micro 1 part, Gro 1 part, Bloom 1 part. Said differently use equal amounts of each.
Flower micro 2 parts, Gro 1 part, Bloom 3 parts while gradually increasing the Bloom and decreasing the Gro by 2-3 ml per water change.

If I am not mistaken the transition you posted (don't have the bottle in front of me at the moment and am experiencing a bit of couch lock) is actually the mix for a mild solution. the amount recommended on the bottle returns a ppm of around 1900+ so by only using half of that would put you at around a ppm of 950. I plan on running the ppm somewhere around 1400-1600 (as long as the plants don't show any problems) So i think i will try a 1 1/2 parts of each. I paid $18.00 for the cal-mag and will probably add half of what the bottle calls for, at least there will some added Calcium And Magnesium. I hate to just toss it.

newbie needs help . ok read water it reads 140ppm added 1 tbls of dutch master and it reads 250 do i subtract the 140 from the 250 r is it 250ppm very confused can someone pm me abot this???