Wouldn't increased wage floor increase independence?

lifegoesonbrah · Dec 8, 2013

Rob Roy said:
You are ignoring your own contradiction. You can't be "for freedom" and then use "unfree methods" and expect this will work. THAT is impractical.

"We" shouldn't allow or disallow business to do anything, as long as they aren't using coercive methods.

I think "we" should untie the market and untie people, so the parties involved can make up their minds how they will trade their labor. You are still trying to polish a turd and think it will not be a turd if you can just vote the stink away. It will not happen, coercion based "solutions" may appear to "solve" problems on the surface, but they bring unintended consequences and negate freedom. Monetary reform? How so?

I am not an absolutist, I think compromise is important considering 90% of the population does not support the freedom philosophy. I think we should fight the small battles in reducing the deficit and maximizing liberty under the current system. This is ultimately where we disagree.

As far as monetary reform, I believe in a backed currency and decentralized banking to be the future.

lifegoesonbrah · Dec 8, 2013

beenthere said:
I'm not much of a fan of minimum wage in the first place. Not that I'm for employers taking advantage of employees but I'm a firm believer in the market adjusting itself on wages. the same way it does on it's prices for goods and services.

These free market principles do not work in a controlled economy. As the amount of dollars increase through inflation, so must the wages.

abandonconflict · Dec 8, 2013

When people who are employed full time still require gov't funds in order to make ends meet, it is the employers who are getting the handouts.

beenthere · Dec 8, 2013

lifegoesonbrah said:
These free market principles do not work in a controlled economy. As the amount of dollars increase through inflation, so must the wages.

Not sure I agree with you but they have been increasing faster than inflation in the last ten years.

UncleBuck · Dec 8, 2013

beenthere said:
If I had to choose, I'd rather my tax dollars go towards putting people who cannot afford a degree or don't want one, through a trade school or some apprenticeship programs.

someone will still have to take out the trash, dig the ditches, and clean the toilets though.

your utopia is unrealistic, as most utopias tend to be.

UncleBuck · Dec 8, 2013

beenthere said:
Not sure I agree with you but [wages] have been increasing faster than inflation in the last ten years.

no. wages have been losing to inflation over the last 40+ years.

if you're going to open your mouth about empirically verifiable claims, make sure they are accurate lest you remove all doubt (yet again).

lifegoesonbrah · Dec 8, 2013

beenthere said:
Not sure I agree with you but they have been increasing faster than inflation in the last ten years.

Quite the opposite actually.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-28/minimum-wage-in-u-s-fails-to-beat-inflation-chart-of-the-day.html

echelon1k1 · Dec 8, 2013

UncleBuck said:
someone will still have to take out the trash, dig the ditches, and clean the toilets though.

don't sell yourself short - i'm sure if you were trained you could learn, maybe

UncleBuck · Dec 8, 2013

echelon1k1 said:
don't sell yourself short - i'm sure if you were trained you could learn, maybe

lifegoesonbrah, is this the type of bitterness you want in your thread?

i will report if you find it to be petty, resentful, and uncalled for.

lifegoesonbrah · Dec 8, 2013

UncleBuck said:
lifegoesonbrah, is this the type of bitterness you want in your thread?

i will report if you find it to be petty, resentful, and uncalled for.

[video=youtube;RkZC7sqImaM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkZC7sqImaM[/video]

schuylaar · Dec 8, 2013

lifegoesonbrah said:
The wage floor has always increased with inflation, right? So the question is, should we continue to increase it with inflation and reduce the amount of people on assistance?

well according to ceo's..no..pay sub standard living wages and have the taxpayer pick up the tab for SNAP and Welfare..ceo's have shifted the burden (their burden) to the taxpayers..all the while making 380x of their companies average worker salary and only paying 12% tax bracket..

echelon1k1 · Dec 8, 2013

UncleBuck said:
i will report if you find it to be petty, resentful, and uncalled for.

I don't report you for being that way... why do you lie about me?

abandonconflict · Dec 8, 2013

Rob Roy said:
You are ignoring your own contradiction. You can't be "for freedom" and then use "unfree methods" and expect this will work. THAT is impractical.

"We" shouldn't allow or disallow business to do anything, as long as they aren't using coercive methods.

I think "we" should untie the market and untie people, so the parties involved can make up their minds how they will trade their labor. You are still trying to polish a turd and think it will not be a turd if you can just vote the stink away. It will not happen, coercion based "solutions" may appear to "solve" problems on the surface, but they bring unintended consequences and negate freedom. Monetary reform? How so?

You can't be for freedom and for wage slavery.

You can't be for freedom and opposed to rights.

You can't be for freedom (only for some people).

Freedom with out equality is just tyranny.

Rob Roy · Dec 8, 2013

lifegoesonbrah said:
I am not an absolutist, I think compromise is important considering 90% of the population does not support the freedom philosophy. I think we should fight the small battles in reducing the deficit and maximizing liberty under the current system. This is ultimately where we disagree.

As far as monetary reform, I believe in a backed currency and decentralized banking to be the future.

Compromising over how to tell other people what to do may be a compromise among the people that assume control over others, but that's like saying "we'll take turns holding the gun" of control over the peasants. When your "compromise" becomes another peaceful persons command, it isn't really a compromise among ALL the involved parties is it?

If you like compromise, how about, you leave them alone and they leave you alone?

beenthere · Dec 8, 2013

lifegoesonbrah said:
Quite the opposite actually.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-28/minimum-wage-in-u-s-fails-to-beat-inflation-chart-of-the-day.html

[h=3]Year (1914-2013)[/h]

Year	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec	Ave
1914	2.0	1.0	1.0	0.0	2.1	1.0	1.0	3.0	2.0	1.0	1.0	1.0	1.0
1915	1.0	1.0	0.0	2.0	2.0	2.0	1.0	-1.0	-1.0	1.0	1.0	2.0	1.0
1916	3.0	4.0	6.1	6.0	5.9	6.9	6.9	7.9	9.9	10.8	11.7	12.6	7.9
1917	12.5	15.4	14.3	18.9	19.6	20.4	18.5	19.3	19.8	19.5	17.4	18.1	17.4
1918	19.7	17.5	16.7	12.7	13.3	13.1	18.0	18.5	18.0	18.5	20.7	20.4	18.0
1919	17.9	14.9	17.1	17.6	16.6	15.0	15.2	14.9	13.4	13.1	13.5	14.5	14.6
1920	17.0	20.4	20.1	21.6	21.9	23.7	19.5	14.7	12.4	9.9	7.0	2.6	15.6
1921	-1.6	-5.6	-7.1	-10.8	-14.1	-15.8	-14.9	-12.8	-12.5	-12.1	-12.1	-10.8	-10.5
1922	-11.1	-8.2	-8.7	-7.7	-5.6	-5.1	-5.1	-6.2	-5.1	-4.6	-3.4	-2.3	-6.1
1923	-0.6	-0.6	0.6	1.2	1.2	1.8	2.4	3.0	3.6	3.6	3.0	2.4	1.8
1924	3.0	2.4	1.8	0.6	0.6	0.0	-0.6	-0.6	-0.6	-0.6	-0.6	0.0	0.0
1925	0.0	0.0	1.2	1.2	1.8	2.9	3.5	4.1	3.5	2.9	4.7	3.5	2.3
1926	3.5	4.1	2.9	4.1	2.9	1.1	-1.1	-1.7	-1.1	-0.6	-1.7	-1.1	1.1
1927	-2.2	-2.8	-2.8	-3.4	-2.2	-0.6	-1.1	-1.1	-1.1	-1.1	-2.3	-2.3	-1.7
1928	-1.1	-1.7	-1.2	-1.2	-1.1	-2.8	-1.2	-0.6	0.0	-1.1	-0.6	-1.2	-1.7
1929	-1.2	0.0	-0.6	-1.2	-1.2	0.0	1.2	1.2	0.0	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.0
1930	0.0	-0.6	-0.6	0.6	-0.6	-1.8	-4.0	-4.6	-4.0	-4.6	-5.2	-6.4	-2.3
1931	-7.0	-7.6	-7.7	-8.8	-9.5	-10.1	-9.0	-8.5	-9.6	-9.7	-10.4	-9.3	-9.0
1932	-10.1	-10.2	-10.3	-10.3	-10.5	-9.9	-9.9	-10.6	-10.7	-10.7	-10.2	-10.3	-9.9
1933	-9.8	-9.9	-10.0	-9.4	-8.0	-6.6	-3.7	-2.2	-1.5	-0.8	0.0	0.8	-5.1
1934	2.3	4.7	5.6	5.6	5.6	5.5	2.3	1.5	3.0	2.3	2.3	1.5	3.1
1935	3.0	3.0	3.0	3.8	3.8	2.2	2.2	2.2	0.7	1.5	2.2	3.0	2.2
1936	1.5	0.7	0.0	-0.7	-0.7	0.7	1.5	2.2	2.2	2.2	1.4	1.4	1.5
1937	2.2	2.2	3.6	4.4	5.1	4.3	4.3	3.6	4.3	4.3	3.6	2.9	3.6
1938	0.7	0.0	-0.7	-0.7	-2.1	-2.1	-2.8	-2.8	-3.4	-4.1	-3.4	-2.8	-2.1
1939	-1.4	-1.4	-1.4	-2.8	-2.1	-2.1	-2.1	-2.1	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	-1.4
1940	-0.7	0.7	0.7	1.4	1.4	2.2	1.4	1.4	-0.7	0.0	0.0	0.7	0.7
1941	1.4	0.7	1.4	2.1	2.9	4.3	5.0	6.4	7.9	9.3	10.0	9.9	5.0
1942	11.3	12.1	12.7	12.6	13.2	10.9	11.6	10.7	9.3	9.2	9.1	9.0	10.9
1943	7.6	7.0	7.5	8.1	7.4	7.4	6.1	4.8	5.5	4.2	3.6	3.0	6.1
1944	3.0	3.0	1.2	0.6	0.0	0.6	1.7	2.3	1.7	1.7	1.7	2.3	1.7
1945	2.3	2.3	2.3	1.7	2.3	2.8	2.3	2.3	2.3	2.3	2.3	2.2	2.3
1946	2.2	1.7	2.8	3.4	3.4	3.3	9.4	11.6	12.7	14.9	17.7	18.1	8.3
1947	18.1	18.8	19.7	19.0	18.4	17.6	12.1	11.4	12.7	10.6	8.5	8.8	14.4
1948	10.2	9.3	6.8	8.7	9.1	9.5	9.9	8.9	6.5	6.1	4.8	3.0	8.1
1949	1.3	1.3	1.7	0.4	-0.4	-0.8	-2.9	-2.9	-2.4	-2.9	-1.7	-2.1	-1.2
1950	-2.1	-1.3	-0.8	-1.3	-0.4	-0.4	1.7	2.1	2.1	3.8	3.8	5.9	1.3
1951	8.1	9.4	9.3	9.3	9.3	8.8	7.5	6.6	7.0	6.5	6.9	6.0	7.9
1952	4.3	2.3	1.9	2.3	1.9	2.3	3.1	3.1	2.3	1.9	1.1	0.8	1.9
1953	0.4	0.8	1.1	0.8	1.1	1.1	0.4	0.7	0.7	1.1	0.7	0.7	0.8
1954	1.1	1.5	1.1	0.8	0.7	0.4	0.4	0.0	-0.4	-0.7	-0.4	-0.7	0.7
1955	-0.7	-0.7	-0.7	-0.4	-0.7	-0.7	-0.4	-0.4	0.4	0.4	0.4	0.4	-0.4
1956	0.4	0.4	0.4	0.7	1.1	1.9	2.2	1.9	1.9	2.2	2.2	3.0	1.5
1957	3.0	3.4	3.7	3.7	3.7	3.3	3.3	3.7	3.3	2.9	3.3	2.9	3.3
1958	3.6	3.2	3.6	3.6	3.2	2.8	2.5	2.1	2.1	2.1	2.1	1.8	2.8
1959	1.4	1.0	0.3	0.3	0.3	0.7	0.7	1.0	1.4	1.7	1.4	1.7	0.7
1960	1.0	1.7	1.7	1.7	1.7	1.7	1.4	1.4	1.0	1.4	1.4	1.4	1.7
1961	1.7	1.4	1.4	1.0	1.0	0.7	1.4	1.0	1.4	0.7	0.7	0.7	1.0
1962	0.7	1.0	1.0	1.3	1.3	1.3	1.0	1.3	1.3	1.3	1.3	1.3	1.0
1963	1.3	1.0	1.3	1.0	1.0	1.3	1.3	1.3	1.0	1.3	1.3	1.6	1.3
1964	1.6	1.6	1.3	1.3	1.3	1.3	1.3	1.0	1.3	1.0	1.3	1.0	1.3
1965	1.0	1.0	1.3	1.6	1.6	1.9	1.6	1.9	1.6	1.9	1.6	1.9	1.6
1966	1.9	2.6	2.6	2.9	2.9	2.5	2.8	3.5	3.5	3.8	3.8	3.5	2.9
1967	3.5	2.8	2.8	2.5	2.8	2.8	2.8	2.4	2.8	2.4	2.7	3.0	3.1
1968	3.6	4.0	3.9	3.9	3.9	4.2	4.5	4.5	4.5	4.7	4.7	4.7	4.2
1969	4.4	4.7	5.2	5.5	5.5	5.5	5.4	5.7	5.7	5.7	5.9	6.2	5.5
1970	6.2	6.1	5.8	6.1	6.0	6.0	6.0	5.4	5.7	5.6	5.6	5.6	5.7
1971	5.3	5.0	4.7	4.2	4.4	4.6	4.4	4.6	4.1	3.8	3.3	3.3	4.4
1972	3.3	3.5	3.5	3.5	3.2	2.7	2.9	2.9	3.2	3.4	3.7	3.4	3.2
1973	3.6	3.9	4.6	5.1	5.5	6.0	5.7	7.4	7.4	7.8	8.3	8.7	6.2
1974	9.4	10.0	10.4	10.1	10.7	10.9	11.5	10.9	11.9	12.1	12.2	12.3	11.0
1975	11.8	11.2	10.3	10.2	9.5	9.4	9.7	8.6	7.9	7.4	7.4	6.9	9.1
1976	6.7	6.3	6.1	6.0	6.2	6.0	5.4	5.7	5.5	5.5	4.9	4.9	5.8
1977	5.2	5.9	6.4	7.0	6.7	6.9	6.8	6.6	6.6	6.4	6.7	6.7	6.5
1978	6.8	6.4	6.6	6.5	7.0	7.4	7.7	7.8	8.3	8.9	8.9	9.0	7.6
1979	9.3	9.9	10.1	10.5	10.9	10.9	11.3	11.8	12.2	12.1	12.6	13.3	11.3
1980	13.9	14.2	14.8	14.7	14.4	14.4	13.1	12.9	12.6	12.8	12.6	12.5	13.5
1981	11.8	11.4	10.5	10.0	9.8	9.6	10.8	10.8	11.0	10.1	9.6	8.9	10.3
1982	8.4	7.6	6.8	6.5	6.7	7.1	6.4	5.9	5.0	5.1	4.6	3.8	6.2
1983	3.7	3.5	3.6	3.9	3.5	2.6	2.5	2.6	2.9	2.9	3.3	3.8	3.2
1984	4.2	4.6	4.8	4.6	4.2	4.2	4.2	4.3	4.3	4.3	4.1	3.9	4.3
1985	3.5	3.5	3.7	3.7	3.8	3.8	3.6	3.3	3.1	3.2	3.5	3.8	3.6
1986	3.9	3.1	2.3	1.6	1.5	1.8	1.6	1.6	1.8	1.5	1.3	1.1	1.9
1987	1.5	2.1	3.0	3.8	3.9	3.7	3.9	4.3	4.4	4.5	4.5	4.4	3.6
1988	4.0	3.9	3.9	3.9	3.9	4.0	4.1	4.0	4.2	4.2	4.2	4.4	4.1
1989	4.7	4.8	5.0	5.1	5.4	5.2	5.0	4.7	4.3	4.5	4.7	4.6	4.8
1990	5.2	5.3	5.2	4.7	4.4	4.7	4.8	5.6	6.2	6.3	6.3	6.1	5.4
1991	5.7	5.3	4.9	4.9	5.0	4.7	4.4	3.8	3.4	2.9	3.0	3.1	4.2
1992	2.6	2.8	3.2	3.2	3.0	3.1	3.2	3.1	3.0	3.2	3.0	2.9	3.0
1993	3.3	3.2	3.1	3.2	3.2	3.0	2.8	2.8	2.7	2.8	2.7	2.7	3.0
1994	2.5	2.5	2.5	2.4	2.3	2.5	2.8	2.9	3.0	2.6	2.7	2.7	2.6
1995	2.8	2.9	2.9	3.1	3.2	3.0	2.8	2.6	2.5	2.8	2.6	2.5	2.8
1996	2.7	2.7	2.8	2.9	2.9	2.8	3.0	2.9	3.0	3.0	3.3	3.3	3.0
1997	3.0	3.0	2.8	2.5	2.2	2.3	2.2	2.2	2.2	2.1	1.8	1.7	2.3
1998	1.6	1.4	1.4	1.4	1.7	1.7	1.7	1.6	1.5	1.5	1.5	1.6	1.6
1999	1.7	1.6	1.7	2.3	2.1	2.0	2.1	2.3	2.6	2.6	2.6	2.7	2.2
2000	2.7	3.2	3.8	3.1	3.2	3.7	3.7	3.4	3.5	3.4	3.4	3.4	3.4
2001	3.7	3.5	2.9	3.3	3.6	3.2	2.7	2.7	2.6	2.1	1.9	1.6	2.8
2002	1.1	1.1	1.5	1.6	1.2	1.1	1.5	1.8	1.5	2.0	2.2	2.4	1.6
2003	2.6	3.0	3.0	2.2	2.1	2.1	2.1	2.2	2.3	2.0	1.8	1.9	2.3
2004	1.9	1.7	1.7	2.3	3.1	3.3	3.0	2.7	2.5	3.2	3.5	3.3	2.7
2005	3.0	3.0	3.1	3.5	2.8	2.5	3.2	3.6	4.7	4.3	3.5	3.4	3.4
2006	4.0	3.6	3.4	3.5	4.2	4.3	4.1	3.8	2.1	1.3	2.0	2.5	3.2
2007	2.1	2.4	2.8	2.6	2.7	2.7	2.4	2.0	2.8	3.5	4.3	4.1	2.8
2008	4.3	4.0	4.0	3.9	4.2	5.0	5.6	5.4	4.9	3.7	1.1	0.1	3.8
2009	0.0	0.2	-0.4	-0.7	-1.3	-1.4	-2.1	-1.5	-1.3	-0.2	1.8	2.7	-0.4
2010	2.6	2.1	2.3	2.2	2.0	1.1	1.2	1.1	1.1	1.2	1.1	1.5	1.6
2011	1.6	2.1	2.7	3.2	3.6	3.6	3.6	3.8	3.9	3.5	3.4	3.0	3.2
2012	2.9	2.9	2.7	2.3	1.7	1.7	1.4	1.7	2.0	2.2	1.8	1.7	2.1
2013	1.6	2.0	1.5	1.1	1.4	1.8	2.0	1.5	1.2	1.0

History of Federal Minimum Wage Rates Under the Fair Labor Standards Act, 1938 - 2009
The table of federal minimum wage rates under the Fair Labor Standards Act, 1938 - 2009 is also available in a PDF Version. In order to view and/or print PDF documents you must have a PDF viewer (e.g., Adobe Acrobat Reader v5 or later) available on your workstation.

Effective Date	1938 Act [SUP]1[/SUP]	1961 Amendments [SUP]2[/SUP]	1966 and Subsequent Amendments[SUP]3[/SUP]
			Nonfarm	Farm
Oct 24, 1938	$0.25
Oct 24, 1939	$0.30
Oct 24, 1945	$0.40
Jan 25, 1950	$0.75
Mar 1, 1956	$1.00
Sep 3, 1961	$1.15	$1.00
Sep 3, 1963	$1.25
Sep 3, 1964		$1.15
Sep 3, 1965		$1.25
Feb 1, 1967	$1.40	$1.40	$1.00	$1.00
Feb 1, 1968	$1.60	$1.60	$1.15	$1.15
Feb 1, 1969			$1.30	$1.30
Feb 1, 1970			$1.45
Feb 1, 1971			$1.60
May 1, 1974	$2.00	$2.00	$1.90	$1.60
Jan. 1, 1975	$2.10	$2.10	$2.00	$1.80
Jan 1, 1976	$2.30	$2.30	$2.20	$2.00
Jan 1, 1977			$2.30	$2.20
Jan 1, 1978	$2.65 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Jan 1, 1979	$2.90 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Jan 1, 1980	$3.10 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Jan 1, 1981	$3.35 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Apr 1, 1990[SUP]4[/SUP]	$3.80 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Apr 1, 1991	$4.25 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Oct 1, 1996	$4.75 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Sep 1, 1997[SUP]5[/SUP]	$5.15 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Jul 24, 2007	$5.85 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Jul 24, 2008	$6.55 for all covered, nonexempt workers
Jul 24, 2009	$7.25 for all covered, nonexempt workers

Minimum hourly wage of workers in jobs first covered by

I said the last 5-6 years.

beenthere · Dec 8, 2013

UncleBuck said:
someone will still have to take out the trash, dig the ditches, and clean the toilets though.

your utopia is unrealistic, as most utopias tend to be.

You're assuming those are all minimum wage jobs, please cite it.

abandonconflict · Dec 8, 2013

Oh look.

Beennowhere is copypasting long obnoxious shit nobody is going to look at.

echelon1k1 · Dec 8, 2013

abandonconflict said:
Oh look.

Beennowhere is copypasting long obnoxious shit nobody is going to look at.

C'mon AC, you've been known to do that from time to time. I remember that reddit thread

abandonconflict · Dec 8, 2013

beenthere said:
You're assuming those are all minimum wage jobs, please cite it.

No, he was assuming nobody goes to college to do those jobs.

You spend so much time on this site. I would think a job creator such as yourself would have better things to do. Are you sure you don't live in your mom's basement?

abandonconflict · Dec 8, 2013

echelon1k1 said:
C'mon AC, you've been known to do that from time to time. I remember that reddit thread

You clearly looked at it.

Wouldn't increased wage floor increase independence?

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