World should give thanks for America

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Here is a shameless, pro American Thanksgiving paean from an immigrants viewpoint.

Happy Thanksgiving!


Speaking as a misfit unassimilated foreigner, I think of Thanksgiving as the most American of holidays.
Christmas is celebrated elsewhere, even if there are significant local variations: In Continental Europe, naughty children get left rods to be flayed with and lumps of coal; in Britain, Christmas lasts from Dec. 22 to mid-January and celebrates the ancient cultural traditions of massive alcohol intake and watching the telly till you pass out in a pool of your own vomit. All part of the rich diversity of our world.
But Thanksgiving (excepting the premature and somewhat undernourished Canadian version) is unique to America. "What's it about?" an Irish visitor asked me a couple of years back. "Everyone sits around giving thanks all day? Thanks for what? George bloody Bush?"
Well, Americans have a lot to be thankful for.
Europeans think of this country as "the New World" in part because it has an eternal newness, which is noisy and distracting. Who would ever have thought you could have ready-to-eat pizza faxed directly to your iPod?
And just when you think you're on top of the general trend of novelty, it veers off in an entirely different direction: Continentals who grew up on Hollywood movies where the guy tells the waitress "Gimme a cuppa joe" and slides over a nickel return to New York a year or two later and find the coffee now costs $5.75, takes 25 minutes and requires an agonizing choice between the cinnamon-gingerbread-persimmon latte with coxcomb sprinkles and the decaf venti pepperoni-Eurasian-milfoil macchiato.
Who would have foreseen that the nation that inflicted fast food and drive-thru restaurants on the planet would then take the fastest menu item of all and turn it into a Kabuki-paced performance art? What mad genius!
But Americans aren't novelty junkies on the important things. The New World is one of the oldest settled constitutional democracies on Earth, to a degree the Old World can barely comprehend. Where it counts, Americans are traditionalists.
We know Eastern Europe was a totalitarian prison until the Nineties, but we forget that Mediterranean Europe (Greece, Spain, Portugal) has democratic roots going all the way back until, oh, the mid-Seventies; France and Germany's constitutions date back barely half a century, Italy's only to the 1940s, and Belgium's goes back about 20 minutes, and currently it's not clear whether even that latest rewrite remains operative. The U.S. Constitution is not only older than France's, Germany's, Italy's or Spain's constitution, it's older than all of them put together.
Americans think of Europe as Goethe and Mozart and 12th century castles and 6th century churches, but the Continent's governing mechanisms are no more ancient than the Partridge Family. Aside from the Anglophone democracies, most of the nation-states in the West have been conspicuous failures at sustaining peaceful political evolution from one generation to the next, which is why they're so susceptible to the siren song of Big Ideas – communism, fascism, European Union.
If you're going to be novelty-crazed, better the zebra-mussel cappuccino than the Third Reich.
Even in a supposedly 50/50 nation, you're struck by the assumed stability underpinning even fundamental disputes. If you go into a bookstore, the display shelves offer a smorgasbord of leftist anti-Bush tracts claiming that he and Cheney have trashed, mangled, gutted, raped and tortured, sliced 'n' diced the Constitution, put it in a cement overcoat and lowered it into the East River. Yet even this argument presupposes a shared veneration for tradition unknown to most Western political cultures: When Tony Blair wanted to abolish, in effect, the upper house of the national legislature, he just got on and did it.
I don't believe the U.S. Constitution includes a right to abortion or gay marriage or a zillion other things the Left claims to detect emanating from the penumbra, but I find it sweetly touching that in America even political radicalism has to be framed as an appeal to constitutional tradition from the powdered-wig era.
In Europe, by contrast, one reason why there's no politically significant pro-life movement is because, in a world where constitutions have the life expectancy of an Oldsmobile, great questions are just seen as part of the general tide, the way things are going, no sense trying to fight it. And, by the time you realize you have to, the tide's usually up to your neck.
So Americans should be thankful they have one of the last functioning nation-states. Europeans, because they've been so inept at exercising it, no longer believe in national sovereignty, whereas it would never occur to Americans not to. This profoundly different attitude to the nation-state underpins, in turn, Euro-American attitudes to transnational institutions such as the United Nations.
But on this Thanksgiving the rest of the world ought to give thanks to American national sovereignty, too. When something terrible and destructive happens – a tsunami hits Indonesia, an earthquake devastates Pakistan – the United States can project itself anywhere on the planet within hours and start saving lives, setting up hospitals and restoring the water supply.
Aside from Britain and France, the Europeans cannot project power in any meaningful way anywhere. When they sign on to an enterprise they claim to believe in – shoring up Afghanistan's fledgling post-Taliban democracy – most of them send token forces under constrained rules of engagement that prevent them doing anything more than manning the photocopier back at the base.
If America were to follow the Europeans and maintain only shriveled attenuated residual military capacity, the world would very quickly be nastier and bloodier, and far more unstable. It's not just Americans and Iraqis and Afghans who owe a debt of thanks to the U.S. soldier but all the Europeans grown plump and prosperous in a globalized economy guaranteed by the most benign hegemon in history.
That said, Thanksgiving isn't about the big geopolitical picture, but about the blessings closer to home. Last week, the state of Oklahoma celebrated its centennial, accompanied by rousing performances of Rodgers and Hammerstein's eponymous anthem:
"We know we belong to the land
And the land we belong to is grand!"
Which isn't a bad theme song for the first Thanksgiving, either.
Three hundred and 86 years ago, the Pilgrims thanked God because there was a place for them in this land, and it was indeed grand. The land is grander today, and that, too, is remarkable: France has lurched from Second Empires to Fifth Republics struggling to devise a lasting constitutional settlement for the same smallish chunk of real estate, but the principles that united a baker's dozen of East Coast colonies were resilient enough to expand across a continent and halfway around the globe to Hawaii.
Americans should, as always, be thankful this Thanksgiving, but they should also understand just how rare in human history their blessings are.
©MARK STEYN
Opinion: World should give thanks for America | americans, world, thanksgiving, europe, europeans - OCRegister.com
 

ViRedd

New Member
Thanks, Wavels. That is a great piece. I heard Rush mention it today. I was going to look for a WSJ so I could read it. You saved me the trip. :)

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Very good read.............bongsmilie
Ahh, so heartwarming. Could it be one mans opinion. Maybe the rest of the world sees us as warmongering assholes, but this one immigrant has it all figured out. Yes America is a good idea on the road to perdition. the current American regime has taken the American Idea and subverted it to a dictatorial plutocracy. A nation controlled by corporations, and bent on colonizing Arab countries and converting them to satelite states. Yeah the article expresses some dwindling precepts, but the future will not hold these to be true.
 

nongreenthumb

Well-Known Member
The world should give thanks to America is a pretty bold statement. I've got nothing to be thankful to America for. They haven't done anything for me and the whole thanksgiving tradition is just a joke.

I don't even think Americans the people should be thankful to their country as a whole. Everything is just bullshit and put in front of you to keep you quiet and grinding the gears you've been bred to carry out.

Todays world is about being part of society, to be a part of it you have to behave in a certain way otherwise society will look down on you. Have a good house and 2 cars on the drive, have the 2 kids and the dog with the picket fence, work your ass off 90 hours a week to earn that crust to seperate you from the rest of the crowd when all in all its just a distraction to take away from the fact that the human race has become nothing more than cogs and batteries in the great machine called society.

You go out and you do whichever job it is, be it computer programming, running a business or doing the lowest jobs on minimum wage. Ultimately it comes down to the fact that you sell the largest proportion of your life away for a set amount per hour.

We as humans have lost track of whats really important in the world because of all these distractions we are sold by marketing companies and general advertising, these things that make our lives so much easier, but do they?

To get the smart car that makes it easier to drive and the fancy new oven and vacuum cleaner that makes your life easier, you have to pay more money to have them which in turn means more work and more hours of your life sold.

What is important in life? to get to the top so that when you die you have a load of cash you can't spend, to have all the possessions in the world so that you have the biggest trophy cabinet.

Personally, i think the simple life is far more important, family friends, spending the time how you want to spend it, who gives a fuck if you drive an older car and don't keep up with the appearances of others. I'd take spending the time with my loves ones and trying to use my life for enjoyment in whatever way i chose to. It doesn't even need to cost money to be happy.

I think the human race needs to take a long look at itself and figure out where we want our future to go because unless things change things will only get worse.

Sorry for the rant, just my thoughts on the subject.
 

Ribbet29

Well-Known Member
The world should give thanks to America is a pretty bold statement. I've got nothing to be thankful to America for. They haven't done anything for me and the whole thanksgiving tradition is just a joke.

I don't even think Americans the people should be thankful to their country as a whole. Everything is just bullshit and put in front of you to keep you quiet and grinding the gears you've been bred to carry out.

Todays world is about being part of society, to be a part of it you have to behave in a certain way otherwise society will look down on you. Have a good house and 2 cars on the drive, have the 2 kids and the dog with the picket fence, work your ass off 90 hours a week to earn that crust to seperate you from the rest of the crowd when all in all its just a distraction to take away from the fact that the human race has become nothing more than cogs and batteries in the great machine called society.

You go out and you do whichever job it is, be it computer programming, running a business or doing the lowest jobs on minimum wage. Ultimately it comes down to the fact that you sell the largest proportion of your life away for a set amount per hour.

We as humans have lost track of whats really important in the world because of all these distractions we are sold by marketing companies and general advertising, these things that make our lives so much easier, but do they?

To get the smart car that makes it easier to drive and the fancy new oven and vacuum cleaner that makes your life easier, you have to pay more money to have them which in turn means more work and more hours of your life sold.

What is important in life? to get to the top so that when you die you have a load of cash you can't spend, to have all the possessions in the world so that you have the biggest trophy cabinet.

Personally, i think the simple life is far more important, family friends, spending the time how you want to spend it, who gives a fuck if you drive an older car and don't keep up with the appearances of others. I'd take spending the time with my loves ones and trying to use my life for enjoyment in whatever way i chose to. It doesn't even need to cost money to be happy.

I think the human race needs to take a long look at itself and figure out where we want our future to go because unless things change things will only get worse.

Sorry for the rant, just my thoughts on the subject.
I find it quite funny that you call our thanksgiving traditions a joke, then you go into your personal feelings on whats important in life and describe to a T what thanksgiving is about, spending time with loved ones and letting them know how thankful you are to have them. Also on a personal note I am very very thankful to my country for the lifestyle it has given me.

I'm going to go participate in what you call a "joke", and spend the day with my family and friends.


 

nongreenthumb

Well-Known Member
I find it quite funny that you call our thanksgiving traditions a joke, then you go into your personal feelings on whats important in life and describe to a T what thanksgiving is about, spending time with loved ones and letting them know how thankful you are to have them. Also on a personal note I am very very thankful to my country for the lifestyle it has given me.

I'm going to go participate in what you call a "joke", and spend the day with my family and friends.
So where did thanksgiving originally come from, its not about the family and stuff, thats what you choose to do. The thanksgiving tradition is about celebrating having dinner with some indians then killing them and stealing their land, thats why its a joke, we don't celebrate thanks giving here, we are good to our families all year round we don't need a special day to do it.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
the "american" tradition of thankgiving is about family. that is the whole american ideal. regardless of the story behind it. what happened in the past is the past. today we are together and eating pie.
 

mexiblunt

Well-Known Member
Being a Canadian, I'm thankfull for america cause now a truck that would cost 70 grand a few months ago has to be sold for 50 grand. I'm quite sure the auto dealers don't feel quite the same way. Just my 2 cents, but those 2 cents are for the first time since I was kid worth more then america's 2 cents.

Our stephen harper recently gave us a new paid holiday called something like family day! I think it's to replace thanksgiving so that day can be re-verted to the day we are thankfull we stole the natives land and killed em.
 

nongreenthumb

Well-Known Member
The holiday does mark that occasion, you can put whatever spin on it you want to make yourselves feel better, but thanksgiving day is directly related to those historic events and that is what your celebrating because your doing it on that day, how you choose to celebrate is your own business, if you do it with family or whatever, but basically your giving thanks to the indians for the dinner and the land. If you wanted to make it more to what your talking about, it would maybe change day or change name, but the holiday your celebrating is related to the indians, its easy to say it doesn't mean that anymore we've moved past it, but it does mean that, otherwise your just using it as an excuse to eat more.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
The holiday does mark that occasion, you can put whatever spin on it you want to make yourselves feel better, but thanksgiving day is directly related to those historic events and that is what your celebrating because your doing it on that day, how you choose to celebrate is your own business, if you do it with family or whatever, but basically your giving thanks to the indians for the dinner and the land. If you wanted to make it more to what your talking about, it would maybe change day or change name, but the holiday your celebrating is related to the indians, its easy to say it doesn't mean that anymore we've moved past it, but it does mean that, otherwise your just using it as an excuse to eat more.

ok, i'm giving thanks to the indians and the land. nothing wrong with that. now can i have some pie? please?
 

shamegame

Well-Known Member
The world should give thanks to America is a pretty bold statement. I've got nothing to be thankful to America for. They haven't done anything for me and the whole thanksgiving tradition is just a joke.

I don't even think Americans the people should be thankful to their country as a whole. Everything is just bullshit and put in front of you to keep you quiet and grinding the gears you've been bred to carry out.

Todays world is about being part of society, to be a part of it you have to behave in a certain way otherwise society will look down on you. Have a good house and 2 cars on the drive, have the 2 kids and the dog with the picket fence, work your ass off 90 hours a week to earn that crust to seperate you from the rest of the crowd when all in all its just a distraction to take away from the fact that the human race has become nothing more than cogs and batteries in the great machine called society.

You go out and you do whichever job it is, be it computer programming, running a business or doing the lowest jobs on minimum wage. Ultimately it comes down to the fact that you sell the largest proportion of your life away for a set amount per hour.

We as humans have lost track of whats really important in the world because of all these distractions we are sold by marketing companies and general advertising, these things that make our lives so much easier, but do they?

To get the smart car that makes it easier to drive and the fancy new oven and vacuum cleaner that makes your life easier, you have to pay more money to have them which in turn means more work and more hours of your life sold.

What is important in life? to get to the top so that when you die you have a load of cash you can't spend, to have all the possessions in the world so that you have the biggest trophy cabinet.

Personally, i think the simple life is far more important, family friends, spending the time how you want to spend it, who gives a fuck if you drive an older car and don't keep up with the appearances of others. I'd take spending the time with my loves ones and trying to use my life for enjoyment in whatever way i chose to. It doesn't even need to cost money to be happy.

I think the human race needs to take a long look at itself and figure out where we want our future to go because unless things change things will only get worse.

Sorry for the rant, just my thoughts on the subject.
Thanksgiving is older than George Bush. And I think pretty much most of the world feels grateful for the U.S. and our efforts during WW2.
 

nongreenthumb

Well-Known Member
Thanksgiving is older than George Bush. And I think pretty much most of the world feels grateful for the U.S. and our efforts during WW2.

Not really, americas created more wars than its solved and who wants to go to war anyway.

Plus, when america was looking for allies to go up againts sadam, who was there first.

So don't give me the you owe us ww2 bullshit.
 

Ribbet29

Well-Known Member
Not really, americas created more wars than its solved and who wants to go to war anyway.

Plus, when america was looking for allies to go up againts sadam, who was there first.

So don't give me the you owe us ww2 bullshit.
No one will be able to change your already established hatred (or what YOU call it) for the united states, so I wont even try but America did try to avoid WW2 Until we were attacked (but we're war mongers, we started that one WW1 too).

The fact of the matter is thanksgiving is a harvest celebration and it would still been so with or without the Indians (who by the way celebrate the holiday). Also I would love for you to show me proof that on this day in history we killed indians and thats what we're really celebrating

YOU think thanksgiving is a joke, that is YOUR opinion. It's not your holiday so why are you even remotely concerned with it. YOUR hatred for the U.S. has made you blind to humanity.

MY name is not BUSH or Clinton, I don't drive a brand new car or have a high tech vacuum/oven like you seem to think, I am a United States Marine who doesn't care what color you are, what country your from, what religion you practice or what your income is. I am a proud American with no hatred for any country. Smoke some bud and take your blinders off
 

Chrisuperfly

Well-Known Member
No one will be able to change your already established hatred (or what YOU call it) for the united states, so I wont even try but America did try to avoid WW2 Until we were attacked (but we're war mongers, we started that one WW1 too).

The fact of the matter is thanksgiving is a harvest celebration and it would still been so with or without the Indians (who by the way celebrate the holiday). Also I would love for you to show me proof that on this day in history we killed indians and thats what we're really celebrating

YOU think thanksgiving is a joke, that is YOUR opinion. It's not your holiday so why are you even remotely concerned with it. YOUR hatred for the U.S. has made you blind to humanity.

MY name is not BUSH or Clinton, I don't drive a brand new car or have a high tech vacuum/oven like you seem to think, I am a United States Marine who doesn't care what color you are, what country your from, what religion you practice or what your income is. I am a proud American with no hatred for any country. Smoke some bud and take your blinders off
Well said, thank you.:joint:
 

nongreenthumb

Well-Known Member
No one will be able to change your already established hatred (or what YOU call it) for the united states, so I wont even try but America did try to avoid WW2 Until we were attacked (but we're war mongers, we started that one WW1 too).

The fact of the matter is thanksgiving is a harvest celebration and it would still been so with or without the Indians (who by the way celebrate the holiday). Also I would love for you to show me proof that on this day in history we killed indians and thats what we're really celebrating

YOU think thanksgiving is a joke, that is YOUR opinion. It's not your holiday so why are you even remotely concerned with it. YOUR hatred for the U.S. has made you blind to humanity.

MY name is not BUSH or Clinton, I don't drive a brand new car or have a high tech vacuum/oven like you seem to think, I am a United States Marine who doesn't care what color you are, what country your from, what religion you practice or what your income is. I am a proud American with no hatred for any country. Smoke some bud and take your blinders off
Guess i touched a nerve for having an opinion.

I'm still entitled to it though even if you don't like it, I don't have a hatred for the states as you so put it. Why not have a turkey tomorrow instead and call it family day. Wheres that holiday at?
 

ViRedd

New Member
With all the supposed hatred these other countries are harboring toward the United States (according to the liberals), I'd be for digging up all of our veterans who were killed in action and who are resting in our military cemeteries in those foreign lands ... and bring them home.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
With all the supposed hatred these other countries are harboring toward the United States (according to the liberals), I'd be for digging up all of our veterans who were killed in action and who are resting in our military cemeteries in those foreign lands ... and bring them home.

Vi
Supposed is not so supposed, watch a foriegn news channel some time. I'm afraid that even though I fit the liberal persuasion, I can see whats right in front of me, unlike some that wear blinders and stick by their government even when they are wrong.
 
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