Why is everyone so afraid of the word Socialism?

Greenhousegrower said:

If its not part of the Constitutional Duties, fair enough, thats the law, but it seems like assuring the health of you people should be a priority.
As for the rest of the points you raised, they are entirely specific to the U.S, and above all true. So there is no argument there.

If it were not for the culture in America that involves everyone wanting to sue everyone else, than maybe the premiums would not be so high and the current system would work better.
Just out of interest, are you opposed to change entirely or would you be in favour of (if it was possible, I don't know) a system that allowed those to pay out of pocket if they want to, but also provided cover for those who can't afford to?

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You seem to have your head on straight. You bring up some good points.

Let's get a few things clear. The vast majority of the country is insured for health care. There is no health care crisis in the USA....

Lots of folks who are NOT insured do it by their own CHOICE. That's important.

No one in the USA is ever denied services because they cannot pay. That's the law of the land. Just as an extreme case, if you are homeless and penniless and you get injured, if you go to a hospital or a doctor, you will be treated. So no one goes without. Is having say the health care policy of a US Senator better than no insurance...of course it is, but everyone gets care here in the states.

The last point you made is an important one. Lawyers and lawsuits and tort cases. When a doctor has to pony up $200,000 in liability insurance before he/she can turn on the light switch each and every year, who do you think pays for that? The end user of course. This is a key element in bringing down the costs of private health care further. This is something Obama will not breathe a word of either. The democrats are OWNED by the Tort lawyers and Obama will not call off the dogs. It is this more than anything which drives the cost of medicine up. If Obama called off the lawyers, then the private health care system would BLOSSOM further, and Obama would not be able to gain control of 1/7th of the economy. Obama isn't about fixing the health care system as he is about taking it over. There's a difference.

Good post though...

I am 42 now and have not had health problems or insurance (by choice) since I was 20 years old. It is about time I possibly look into some (maybe)...or just pay cash. Cash is KING in America.

I can thank the Mary Jane Gods for my great health in most part along with exercising and eating properly. I surely don't want to put any more into the system than I already do.

Lots of folks don't NEED insurance. Once the scumbag lawyers are pulled off of the industry, it will be so much more affordable. Not in the Obama playbook however. So much for doing the right thing by the American citizens.......

The strategy behind Obamacare is to persuade people that it is really about healthcare. It isn't. As CJ said, it is a small slice that needs insurance but doesn't have it. Why not just put them on medicaid? No, what it's really about is the government taking over the entire healthcare industry which works better than any in the world, and turning it into one that doesn't work like the UKs where prostate cancer mortality rates are SIX TIMES higher than in the US. Obama is trying to seize control of healthcare just like he tried to seize control of the auto industry and the banking industry. We won't be fooled.

Great post BT. Maybe not enought info tho? (JK!) But yes, all those points are new to me and very interesting indeed, so you've shown me once more I'm way out of my depth here.
Crackerjax, you've better articulated the point I'm getting at about the lawsuit behind it all. The private system would definitely flourish if it was dealt with, so much money is wasted on making sure all these liability risks are covered.
Illegal smile, although you may not like the NHS, I don't think brushing statements like it "doesn't work" are fair or true. It happens to work very well for those in the UK, a recent poll showed 96% of the whole population were satisfied with the system, and it happens to be one of the biggest prides that Britain takes in its country.
Just as I have admitted that I do not know enough about the U.S. system to make a fair criticism, so should you when it comes to the U.K system. And lets not get so specific as to use a small part of the big picture such as prostate cancer as a barometer to measure which system works or "doesn't work". We could throw statistics like that back and forth all day and not get anywhere. There are countless variables out there that could contribute to getting something such as prostate cancer in the first place, and I don't think the health system structure is top of the list.
If you want stats I've got em, but lets not start a stat war, they're pointless and boring for everyone else to read, peace.

I would agree that any american who wants to see this country be more like the UK and France should support Obamacare.

Govt. health care ALWAYS leads to rationing of services. If that's the way you like to make your health decisions, then power to you. I do not like to have a third party decide whether or not my need is worthy according to actuary tables. That isn't done today in the states.

I think if you need a prescription filled or some minor visit, you would be happy with govt. health care, as long as you didn't look at the cost of that "free" service. Once you get into a serious health situation, that same system will either delay, disavow, or deny you that help. No one cares when it's an aspirin. Everyone cares when it's Prostate cancer......and that's when the USA health care system leaves them all behind in the dust.

You have a serious illness? You want the best chance to stay alive? You come to the USA buddy. Just like everyone else around the world with the means do.

There's nothing wrong with our health care system that cannot be fixed. We just need some politicians that actually WANT to fix it, as opposed to OWN it.

Ummm.. off topic but I love asian girls who throw fast balls.

Because you soon run out of other peoples money... that is why it does not work. They go to other countries and take there work with them.

When will people learn that communism and socialism does not work!

Why do you think russians put up a wall... so the rich people and companies could not escape...LOL.

There is not only a money drain, but a brain drain. Smart people leave systems which don't favor success.

BlueTick, I'm pretty sure that gal is throwing nothing but "curves"

The United States is spending $2 trillion a year (almost $8,000 per person).

Nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007, the latest government data available.

Under the current system, 44,230 Americans lose their health insurance every week. That number translates to 191,670 a month and 2,300,000 a year.

The number of uninsured children in 2007 was 8.1 million - or 10.7 percent of all children in the U.S.

You have numbers, but you don't know what they mean. A dangerous thing.

TheDemocrat said:

The United States is spending $2 trillion a year (almost $8,000 per person).

Nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007, the latest government data available.

Under the current system, 44,230 Americans lose their health insurance every week. That number translates to 191,670 a month and 2,300,000 a year.

The number of uninsured children in 2007 was 8.1 million - or 10.7 percent of all children in the U.S.

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How many of the uninsured were denied treatment at a hospital or emergency room? How many of the uninsured died as a result of not having insurance? Under the current system those people lose their insurance because they have lost their jobs, how are people going to go back to work when they all of a sudden have to pay a new tax to insure those who don't have or do not want insurance? Why must I be penalized with a fine if I do not wish to drink the Kool Aid?

CrackerJax said:

You have numbers, but you don't know what they mean. A dangerous thing.

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So what do they mean smart guy?

numbers don't lie people do...thank Democrat for sharing facts

The United States is spending $2 trillion a year (almost $8,000 per person).

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What are you talking about here..... Is this a figure for all private policies combined or only govt. spending on it's own programs (medi care, VA, medicaid)? You'll need to clear that up before I respond.

Nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007, the latest government data available.

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Okay, here you go. Numbers without context as opposed to context. This is an easy one.

1.) 46 million uninsured... sounds like everything is falling apart if that isn't put into the correct context!!!! Oh my!!!

Context provided here:

First of all, 10 million of those are illegal residents and do not deserve to be counted in this figure since they are NOT Americans. Let's move on to the remaining 35 million which is the more accurate figure.



At least 44% of the uninsured are uninsured by choice, and the number could be much higher than that. An Urban Institute study found that:

• One in every four uninsured persons is eligible for Medicaid or SChip, but has not enrolled.
• One in five has a family income in excess of $58,000 and presumably can afford coverage.

This is a minimum estimate. Of those who earn less than $58,000, there are undoubtedly many who can afford coverage because:

• They have access to an employer plan, (almost one in five uninsured turn down employer coverage.)
• Even if their employer does not provide health insurance, they have opportunities to work for employers who do, but choose not to.
• They are young and healthy or live in rural areas and face premiums much lower than the $9,961 annual premium assumed by the Urban Institute scholars.
• They are near retirement and can draw on assets to pay premiums until they become eligible for Medicare.

Under the current system, 44,230 Americans lose their health insurance every week. That number translates to 191,670 a month and 2,300,000 a year.

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They lose it because it is tied to the employer by Govt. mandate. This is how the govt. keeps the tax pressure up on the corps. Also, that figure does not take into account how many are picked back up AFTER the folks get reemployed and reinsured. Once again, it is the law that you can COBRA and keep insurance going, but many CHOOSE not to.

The number of uninsured children in 2007 was 8.1 million - or 10.7 percent of all children in the U.S.

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Yes, but that number is DOWN from 2006, so the direction is one of progress, not doom. Again, we are left with choice. We are also left with the fact that one of the reasons why ppl are poor is..... drum roll...... they make "bad" choices in their life. For themselves AND for their children.


In any case, giving the govt. the control over your health is ludicrous. The govt. drives every program in its control deep into the red. That means WE pay for their fiscal irresponsibility.

SS, MediCare, Medicaid, Post Office...... all run into the ground fiscally. The Govt. SWORE when all of these programs when enacted they would be efficient...... well guess what....NOT.

It is folly to try and fix the private sector with the public one. It is wasteful, it is dangerous.

There is some true context for your numbers.....enjoy!!

TheDankness said:

Simple question, why is everyone so afraid of the word socialism? For me it seems that just like communism back in the sixties, socialism is being treated like a virus thats going to sweep in and kill everyones babies. What is so wrong with the idea of socialism, what is with this huge societal stigma? It seems to be working pretty well for the Canadians. I just want to know if anyone can explain the real beef with the main principles of socialist government. Please don't attack me here I want honest and rational answers. Ready... go!

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If I wanted someone to tell me what to do with my money I'd be married.

Socialism is not what conservative people are afraid of.
Throwing money that we don't have at RELIEF programs is what scares them.

Back when I was a young man, everybody who could work, did. And those who did, had no cost (except for deductibles) health insurance through the company that they worked for. But, since the 70's we've watched the fed gov't grow at the same rate as the people it intends to relieve (creating a population that is dependant on them), all the while ignoring a trade deficit that's spiraling out of control.
With a healthy economy, socialized medicine would not be needed.
I'm tired of seeing money thrown at the product of problems instead of the root cause. But, our politicians (democrats&republicans) just continue to point fingers at who got us here while the cart they're supposed to be tending keeps rollin' down hill picking up speed. Every once in awhile they all get together to pass a bill that pours some $$$ under the wheels to slow it down. But, then they go right back to arguing about why the cart is rolling down hill to begin with.

Look at it this way. Obama went over to Europe for a big official visit in which he thought he would be crowned for going with the EU model of govt. spending.....finally. He urged the EU to follow HIS plan for a global recovery using massive spending by the public sector. THEY BALKED!!! They went the CORRECT way...... the became fiscally conservative (relative to their already socialist ways).

Even the EU said no.....and by the way, they are recovering better than we are right now. THAT IS A FIRST EVER!!! It's a clear sign that we are going in the wrong direction.

CrackerJax said:

Look at it this way. Obama went over to Europe for a big official visit in which he thought he would be crowned for going with the EU model of govt. spending.....finally. He urged the EU to follow HIS plan for a global recovery using massive spending by the public sector. THEY BALKED!!! They went the CORRECT way...... the became fiscally conservative (relative to their already socialist ways).

Even the EU said no.....and by the way, they are recovering better than we are right now. THAT IS A FIRST EVER!!! It's a clear sign that we are going in the wrong direction.

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I know everything! Blah blah blah. I am right! Number! Numbers! Numbers! Random statement. That's a FACT! Can you not see? I am right. I have lots of money! Listen to me!