Why I do not do LSD

The evil Santa is very real! Only when he betrays mankind in his bid for total world domination will you see, too late, that he is a monster, not a myth! The Membrane Foundation created the Anti-Santa Arsenal for the purpose of preparing for this inevitable day. Curse you Santa!

If anything, quit the alcohol, it will mosh up ya insides.. take lsd

if you really want to learn about christ, read 'Cows, Pigs, Wars and Witches' by Marvin Harris.

culture is nothing random

Thanks for just "assuming" what all my beliefs are, by the way. I had no idea I was a young-earth creationists. In fact, I still don't think I am, but I guess its good to know you think I am.

Some people are courteous and ask the other person before simply informing them as to what they believe. But then again, maybe being respectful and courteous is just "crazy". After all, the Bible teaches people to be respectful, gentle, and good-listeners... but we all know that book is for "crazy people."

Honestly, I don't care if you you call people who believe in miracles or God or Christ's resurrection "crazy". I, along with millions of others (including some renowned scholars, doctors, and historians) have looked at the historical evidence, have mediated, have thought, have prayed, and have informed, educated faith.

I'm just letting you know how you come across. I don't know what the word is for "ready to assume a person has host of stereo-typical beliefs while at the same time lambasting him for those beliefs" is. I personally tend to label people as acting "crazy" for *acting* a certain way (perhaps the way you are acting), not for simply holding a particular belief.... especially a cherished religious one.

Smiley D said:

True, crazy is a broad term.

But seriously now. You've already stated that you believe some dude rose from the dead days after beaten, flogged into a pulpy mess, crucified, and stabbed in the heart.

So I can only assume that you believe noah managed to round up two of every animal and herd them onto a rickety wooden ship, sail on stormy seas for some longass time, not sure exactly(sorry, been a while since sunday school), keep everything alive and not eating each other or noah and his peeps, and then repopulate the earth all while living to the ripe old age of 600 or however the tale goes(sorry again, can't say I tried too hard to remember), and the earth has been washed of heathens and sinners. Praise be unto him.

Also, jonah lived inside a whale, must have been nice and cozy.

Adam and eve manage to give rise to the entire human species(that's a whole lot of brother, sister, and cousin fucking going on(even compared to mississippi) and all without getting too inbred to see straight, let alone survive and fuck some more and multiply.

There's a talking snake somewhere in that part of the book too.

Jesus could walk on water and mastered the fish multiplication tables.

The earth is a shiny new plantet only a few thousand years young.

Oh yea, and fossils? Those are just some of the many sneaky little things the devil planted here to try and fool us. The bastid.

It has nothing to do with disagreeing with someones faith, or being rude. It's just straight up crazy, and I'm not going to say otherwise just to avoid offending some crazy guy on the internet.

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If you read earlier threads, I clarified the "trip for a year" thing. I didn't "trip" for a year, rather that I simply started hearing voices that evening and it didn't stop for a year. The voices were the only part of the "trip" or whatever you want to call it that continued for a year. Every other effect was gone within 12 hours.

As to your comment, "Christianity says that if you praise any other gods, you will burn in hell"... you really should go to Christ's words and the original Christians words (in the Bible) to find what "Christianity says" instead of just assuming it is the same bullshit Jerry fat-assed Falwell says or whomever you get this from. I mean seriously, what makes you think some gigantic, rude Baptist pastor is a reliable source to find what "Christianity" says?

The word for "day" in Genesis (where young-earth creationists get their belief that the earth was made in 7 days around 10,000 years ago) actually can be translated to mean any indefinite period of time. Look it up for yourself. So it could be 7 billion years old or whatever... and in fact, science has show us that it is. But if you depend on Falwell to tell you about that fact, you make a grave mistake.

Likewise the Scriptures do talk about a place where people are punished for their sins, but it tells of that place eventually being destroyed, not lasting for eternity. So in reality "Christianity" doesn't teach of an eternal hell. It teaches of eternal life for those who love God's commands (who love Him), and of the eventual destruction of those who don't love the Creator.

That is to say, if you don't like God, he isn't going to make you suffer in his presence for eternity. *That* would be hell. But that doesn't mean he's going to burn you forever either. A lot of typical Baptist or whatever pastors get off on striking fear into people's hearts instead of telling them about the love of Christ. So they tend to omit the passage about how "hell" gets destroyed when teaching about the topic.

It's always best to read a religious book for yourself before judging it as a religion that has no reasoning. There are plenty of idiots that smoke pot, but that doesn't pot is all in all a "drug for idiots", plenty of idiots graduate from college, but that doesn't mean "college is for idiots", etc. There are a ton of Christian idiots out there, but that doesn't mean Christ, Christianity, or all Christians are without reason.

Jobo said:

This is some serious bullshit. Theres no fucking way you tripped for a year, and to say that "god" made you stop tripping is complete bullshit.

It is physically impossible to trip for a year off of 1 dose of acid.


Religions are just manmade things to give comfort to people who give up on finding the answers to life.


Christianity says that if you praise any other gods, you will burn in hell.

Do you mean to tell me that the BILLIONS of other people in the world are going to burn for an eternity simply because they chose the wrong one?

We have carbon-dating evidence saying that the dinosaurs are hundreds of millions of years old, yet now many christians are saying that "humans and dinosaurs co-existed"

That is a half ass excuse to try and cover their asses because they know they are wrong but are so sucked into this idea of "god" and his good morals that they cant escape.


Its really quite disgusting that people are born into family's which FORCE these ideas into their children's head so much that they base their who life around it and believe it to the death.


Christianity has NO reasoning or answer for all of the evidence of evolution, (IE the bones, fossils etc) All they say is "believe in god"

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religion is the lsd of the masses.... someone said that...

jsn9333 said:

Thanks for just "assuming" what all my beliefs are, by the way. I had no idea I was a young-earth creationists. In fact, I still don't think I am, but I guess its good to know you think I am.

Some people are courteous and ask the other person before simply informing them as to what they believe. But then again, maybe being respectful and courteous is just "crazy". After all, the Bible teaches people to be respectful, gentle, and good-listeners... but we all know that book is for "crazy people."

Honestly, I don't care if you you call people who believe in miracles or God or Christ's resurrection "crazy". I, along with millions of others (including some renowned scholars, doctors, and historians) have looked at the historical evidence, have mediated, have thought, have prayed, and have informed, educated faith.

I'm just letting you know how you come across. I don't know what the word is for "ready to assume a person has host of stereo-typical beliefs while at the same time lambasting him for those beliefs" is. I personally tend to label people as acting "crazy" for *acting* a certain way (perhaps the way you are acting), not for simply holding a particular belief.... especially a cherished religious one.

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More straw man shit.

So you just pick and choose what parts to believe, huh? Doesn't that kind of negate the whole "faith" thing?

Jesus, as a historical figure, is real. He was documented in multiple forms and by all accounts was a pretty heady dude.

As a historical figure, jesus was also the product of rape by a roman soldier. So yes, the white, or whiter than average jesus image is a true one. Times were different, well, I guess the middle east is still the same today. But, things were different than what most of us know. There was no vindication or sympothy for rape victims. They would be shunned at best and stoned to death if unlucky. Unless, you can make up some fantastic story to explain just why you're pregnant yet haven't been fuckin. Surely it's not beyond a person to do just that to save their life.

Sure, I'm being an internet dick. But I just can't feel bad about badmouthing religion and it's followers. Religion, that which is the genesis of much of the pain and suffering and ignorance that plagues this planet. The reason I can't buy fucking booze on sundays sometimes. The fucking bells that used to wake me up in the godamn morning. The countless childhood weekend mornings that I was so rudely roused from my warm bed and dragged to a stinking church in the wee hours of the morning. I mean, one day of sleeping in per week? Fuck that. The people that come to my front door uninvited and want to me to discuss personal matters with a smarmy stranger. The god damn kid fuckers. Jesus tittyfucking christ, the kid fuckers, they make me cringe. The people telling all the poor aids infested africans not to use condoms lest they burn for eternity in a lake of boiling fire. So many things. And the worst, the real creeps, the arrogant, smug, self righteous pricks(you) that try and insinuate that somehow morality is dependent upon religion.



My advice; try acid again, a lot of it.

Thats what I said

jsn9333 said:

If you read earlier threads, I clarified the "trip for a year" thing. I didn't "trip" for a year, rather that I simply started hearing voices that evening and it didn't stop for a year. The voices were the only part of the "trip" or whatever you want to call it that continued for a year. Every other effect was gone within 12 hours.

As to your comment, "Christianity says that if you praise any other gods, you will burn in hell"... you really should go to Christ's words and the original Christians words (in the Bible) to find what "Christianity says" instead of just assuming it is the same bullshit Jerry fat-assed Falwell says or whomever you get this from. I mean seriously, what makes you think some gigantic, rude Baptist pastor is a reliable source to find what "Christianity" says?

The word for "day" in Genesis (where young-earth creationists get their belief that the earth was made in 7 days around 10,000 years ago) actually can be translated to mean any indefinite period of time. Look it up for yourself. So it could be 7 billion years old or whatever... and in fact, science has show us that it is. But if you depend on Falwell to tell you about that fact, you make a grave mistake.

Likewise the Scriptures do talk about a place where people are punished for their sins, but it tells of that place eventually being destroyed, not lasting for eternity. So in reality "Christianity" doesn't teach of an eternal hell. It teaches of eternal life for those who love God's commands (who love Him), and of the eventual destruction of those who don't love the Creator.

That is to say, if you don't like God, he isn't going to make you suffer in his presence for eternity. *That* would be hell. But that doesn't mean he's going to burn you forever either. A lot of typical Baptist or whatever pastors get off on striking fear into people's hearts instead of telling them about the love of Christ. So they tend to omit the passage about how "hell" gets destroyed when teaching about the topic.

It's always best to read a religious book for yourself before judging it as a religion that has no reasoning. There are plenty of idiots that smoke pot, but that doesn't pot is all in all a "drug for idiots", plenty of idiots graduate from college, but that doesn't mean "college is for idiots", etc. There are a ton of Christian idiots out there, but that doesn't mean Christ, Christianity, or all Christians are without reason.

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Typical beatin around the bush.


"Every other effect was gone within 12 hours."

Now your just bullshittin us to try and cover your ass. In your FIRST POST you said "The hallucinations stopped after a few days"

Yet you just said they ended 12 hours after you took the acid.



Ok so theirs no "eternity in hell" but your still saying that BILLIONS of very nice, kind heart'd people will be destroyed, simply because they dont believe in YOUR god, or dont love your god....

I dont mean to come off as such an angry one-minded person, but most religions are soo stupid and the people who get stuck in em are exactly the same.

Dude ur so fing stupid its not jesus that save u just have fucken scitzophrania.... my whole family has and shit we dont go crying to jesus wen we do acid... take sum seraquel and shut up.. and y u bringing religion here honestly what did u expect

i stopped messing with acid... i worked at a big club, watched a guy sell acid all night out of a eye dropper, followed him into the bathroom where he was making his sales, found the guy laying on the floor almost dead. foaming at the mouth holding his wet sock were he had his vile that spilled all over his foot. he died.

STICK WITH THE GREEN

Kingb420 said:

i stopped messing with acid... i worked at a big club, watched a guy sell acid all night out of a eye dropper, followed him into the bathroom where he was making his sales, found the guy laying on the floor almost dead. foaming at the mouth holding his wet sock were he had his vile that spilled all over his foot. he died.

STICK WITH THE GREEN

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Just becuase 1 idiot dies doesnt mean you should tell other people to not do it.

Thats why america is so fucked up today. People see 1 person have something go bad and shun whatever caused it.

yea the moral of that story sounds more like don't be a dipshit...

When dealing with drugs always be carefull, cautious, and responsible.

plus selling them in the bathroom he could of just been beaten to hell or slipped something... not even positive thats what he died from unless you somehow had a connection with the corenor. which i doubt...

No, I don't pick and choose what to believe. The whole point is that these beliefs you are claiming I believe
1) I don't believe
2) aren't even anywhere in the Bible that I can see

If you disagree, then show me where I said I believe them, or show me where they are in the Bible.

To just assume I believe something because you've heard baptist pastors or whatever say it is off, friend. I ain't a baptist. I'm a Christian. There's a huge difference. I'm not saying no baptists are Christian, and I'm not trying to be a cock. But just be careful before you stereotype people. At least ask someone what they believe before blasting them for their "beliefs". You might actually have presumed something that isn't true.

Atheist leaders (or leaders heavily influenced by athesitic thinkers) have led the worlds largest genocides or caused as much if not more suffering as religious leaders. But for me to say Atheisim is then some root cause of evil is a total fallacy. Yet that is exactly what you are doing to "religion". This whole "guilt by association" thing just doesn't work, and to be honest, it looks more like your own personal excuse to why you do not have to investigate religion more deeply. You just cast it away so you don't have to think about it any more, but you are hypocritical in that you don't cast off other belief systems that have cause just as much if not more pain.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article5400568.ece

As to Christ, the problem with your "Roman Rape" theory is that, sure, Christ might've "fooled" his disciples into thinking he was God... but the disciples had no reason to lie about his being resurrected. He certainly couldn't have fooled them about dying and coming back to life... they buried the guy. So either they're all liars and in on the biggest hoax in human history, or they're all more schizo then I was, or they're telling the truth.

I've read a lot of history and a lot of the origins of various religions. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I've never known any other group of men (who by all accounts were not gathering up women or money) to then give up their lives and die horrible, painful deaths for what they knew to be "fairy tales" or outright lies. Many skeptics claim the first Christians were just power hungry deceivers. That just makes no sense, historically.

Sure, other religious founders in history have died for their faith.... For instance, Joseph Smith (founder of Mormonism) died for his faith. He had placed his faith in the vision he supposedly had from God (with no witnesses, just himself). Or Muhammad (founder of Islam) died practicing his faith. He had placed his faith in the vision he supposedly had from God (with no witness, just himself). But then again, both those men had other likely motivations. For instance, both men (by all accounts) used their religion to justify taking multiple wives (some very young), and both men profited by taking land and fighting others for land.

History shows the 12 disciples did not take multiple wives, they did not take land, they did not make a lot of money. These men had a passion for preaching the good news that Christ rose from the dead and that we can all have peace with God and eternal life. Period. That's it. They died for their faith, destitute (by earthly standards). And it wasn't just one of them witnessing the supposed "vision" (like Smith or Muhammad). It was all of them.


I've never known 12 men willing to die such horrible deaths for a known lie, especially when they had no sexual or financial motive. They weren't the only ones though. Hundreds were recorded as having witnessed the resurrection, and hundreds were martyred. From there Christianity took off in the 1st century, not by the sword or for pussy or riches... no, it took off despite its followers regularly being stoned, cut in half, or burnt at the stake.

Christ is real. If you need to write him off because "all religion is leads to evil", or because you didn't like getting up on Sunday, or whatever your reasoning is... then do that. But those aren't good enough reasons for me to deny what happened to me, and to deny the history surrounding the man.

You can accuse people of being crazy all day long. But when you sterotype people and then blast them for their alleged beliefs, you are the one that comes off as a bit off kilter.

Smiley D said:

More straw man shit.

So you just pick and choose what parts to believe, huh? Doesn't that kind of negate the whole "faith" thing?

Jesus, as a historical figure, is real. He was documented in multiple forms and by all accounts was a pretty heady dude.

As a historical figure, jesus was also the product of rape by a roman soldier. So yes, the white, or whiter than average jesus image is a true one. Times were different, well, I guess the middle east is still the same today. But, things were different than what most of us know. There was no vindication or sympothy for rape victims. They would be shunned at best and stoned to death if unlucky. Unless, you can make up some fantastic story to explain just why you're pregnant yet haven't been fuckin. Surely it's not beyond a person to do just that to save their life.

Sure, I'm being an internet dick. But I just can't feel bad about badmouthing religion and it's followers. Religion, that which is the genesis of much of the pain and suffering and ignorance that plagues this planet. The reason I can't buy fucking booze on sundays sometimes. The fucking bells that used to wake me up in the godamn morning. The countless childhood weekend mornings that I was so rudely roused from my warm bed and dragged to a stinking church in the wee hours of the morning. I mean, one day of sleeping in per week? Fuck that. The people that come to my front door uninvited and want to me to discuss personal matters with a smarmy stranger. The god damn kid fuckers. Jesus tittyfucking christ, the kid fuckers, they make me cringe. The people telling all the poor aids infested africans not to use condoms lest they burn for eternity in a lake of boiling fire. So many things. And the worst, the real creeps, the arrogant, smug, self righteous pricks(you) that try and insinuate that somehow morality is dependent upon religion.



My advice; try acid again, a lot of it.

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Cut me some slack, please. It's been over 15 years ago! I'm not writing a damn historical autobiography here, bro. I'm just telling you what happened to me. I don't even remember what I wrote in the first post in this thread. I haven't even looked at it for months and moths. The point is, whatever effects of the acid was was gone relatively soon... mostly within 12 hours or so. Maybe some trails lingering or whatever into the next day, because I took the large dose the evening before. All I know is all the immediate effects were gone relatively soon, but the voices never stopped or even let off a little bit for an entire year. If anything they got worse until they stopped.

That's just my story man. I ain't trying to judge anyone by it. So why the fuck would I be trying to fool people about it? I'm not even trying to convince people not to take LSD. Take all you want... I'm just telling my story.

And again, you're telling me what I believe. When did I say billions were going to hell? (at no time.) Where in the Bible does it say that? (It doesn't.) So why are you telling me that is what I believe?

When I said don't assume everything that baptist pastors say "Christianity" is is what Christianity really is, I meant it. Seriously.

Don't take other people's word for it... especially the friggin' baptists. That's like asking the DEA to tell you about cannabis. Look into that shit yourself.

Jobo said:

Typical beatin around the bush.


"Every other effect was gone within 12 hours."

Now your just bullshittin us to try and cover your ass. In your FIRST POST you said "The hallucinations stopped after a few days"

Yet you just said they ended 12 hours after you took the acid.



Ok so theirs no "eternity in hell" but your still saying that BILLIONS of very nice, kind heart'd people will be destroyed, simply because they dont believe in YOUR god, or dont love your god....

I dont mean to come off as such an angry one-minded person, but most religions are soo stupid and the people who get stuck in em are exactly the same.

Click to expand...

Kingb420 said:

i stopped messing with acid... i worked at a big club, watched a guy sell acid all night out of a eye dropper, followed him into the bathroom where he was making his sales, found the guy laying on the floor almost dead. foaming at the mouth holding his wet sock were he had his vile that spilled all over his foot. he died.

STICK WITH THE GREEN

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hah.. bullshit. The lethal dose of LSD is roughly 12 grams. You're telling me this guy carried hundreds of thousands of dollars with him just to die?

It's people who come up with bullshit that may apply to one out of 10 million people that makes things like weed illegal.

To the thread starter: Ive made several posts on this thread months ago.

I have a couple questions for u.

How many different voices did u have and what did they say to u?

Also, u said u smoke weed right? about how much weed do u smoke and how often, and also how does it effect u? is there any negative effects when u smoke weed?

thx if u can answer those questions. Im not trying to judge u Im just curious.

jsn9333 said:

No, I don't pick and choose what to believe. The whole point is that these beliefs you are claiming I believe
1) I don't believe
2) aren't even anywhere in the Bible that I can see

If you disagree, then show me where I said I believe them, or show me where they are in the Bible.

To just assume I believe something because you've heard baptist pastors or whatever say it is off, friend. I ain't a baptist. I'm a Christian. There's a huge difference. I'm not saying no baptists are Christian, and I'm not trying to be a cock. But just be careful before you stereotype people. At least ask someone what they believe before blasting them for their "beliefs". You might actually have presumed something that isn't true.

Atheist leaders (or leaders heavily influenced by athesitic thinkers) have led the worlds largest genocides or caused as much if not more suffering as religious leaders. But for me to say Atheisim is then some root cause of evil is a total fallacy. Yet that is exactly what you are doing to "religion". This whole "guilt by association" thing just doesn't work, and to be honest, it looks more like your own personal excuse to why you do not have to investigate religion more deeply. You just cast it away so you don't have to think about it any more, but you are hypocritical in that you don't cast off other belief systems that have cause just as much if not more pain.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article5400568.ece

As to Christ, the problem with your "Roman Rape" theory is that, sure, Christ might've "fooled" his disciples into thinking he was God... but the disciples had no reason to lie about his being resurrected. He certainly couldn't have fooled them about dying and coming back to life... they buried the guy. So either they're all liars and in on the biggest hoax in human history, or they're all more schizo then I was, or they're telling the truth.

I've read a lot of history and a lot of the origins of various religions. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I've never known any other group of men (who by all accounts were not gathering up women or money) to then give up their lives and die horrible, painful deaths for what they knew to be "fairy tales" or outright lies. Many skeptics claim the first Christians were just power hungry deceivers. That just makes no sense, historically.

Sure, other religious founders in history have died for their faith.... For instance, Joseph Smith (founder of Mormonism) died for his faith. He had placed his faith in the vision he supposedly had from God (with no witnesses, just himself). Or Muhammad (founder of Islam) died practicing his faith. He had placed his faith in the vision he supposedly had from God (with no witness, just himself). But then again, both those men had other likely motivations. For instance, both men (by all accounts) used their religion to justify taking multiple wives (some very young), and both men profited by taking land and fighting others for land.

History shows the 12 disciples did not take multiple wives, they did not take land, they did not make a lot of money. These men had a passion for preaching the good news that Christ rose from the dead and that we can all have peace with God and eternal life. Period. That's it. They died for their faith, destitute (by earthly standards). And it wasn't just one of them witnessing the supposed "vision" (like Smith or Muhammad). It was all of them.


I've never known 12 men willing to die such horrible deaths for a known lie, especially when they had no sexual or financial motive. They weren't the only ones though. Hundreds were recorded as having witnessed the resurrection, and hundreds were martyred. From there Christianity took off in the 1st century, not by the sword or for pussy or riches... no, it took off despite its followers regularly being stoned, cut in half, or burnt at the stake.

Christ is real. If you need to write him off because "all religion is leads to evil", or because you didn't like getting up on Sunday, or whatever your reasoning is... then do that. But those aren't good enough reasons for me to deny what happened to me, and to deny the history surrounding the man.

You can accuse people of being crazy all day long. But when you sterotype people and then blast them for their alleged beliefs, you are the one that comes off as a bit off kilter.

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Every story I described is in the bible. You seem to refute some parts of the bible, yet quote other parts as truth. I was circumcised(religion's greatest contribution IMO), baptized, and confirmed. Lutheran, not baptist. I am not completely ignorant of the christian faith.

Where did I say I was atheist?

Agnosticism is the only viable idea.

There had to be a prime mover of some kind. However, there is no evidence to support that it was/is conscious, let alone capable or willing to give a shit about homo sapiens or our supposed souls. We just don't know, nobody does. Anyone that claims otherwise is a liar or crazy. I can't lie, it would be nice to know that us humans are something more than intelligent sacks of meat. I'm not going to lie to myself though, because I cannot be sure.

All we know is that we have this one life. If there is a conscious being out there, that does indeed care about us; what else could it want for us other than to enjoy our time here? Herein lays my problem with religion. They all seem to insist that we must abstain from certain pleasures on earth in order to "make it to heaven". And the devout insist upon enforcing this mantra upon there neighbors, as is required by scripture. But there is no proof of an afterlife. I'll continue my heathenistic ways until there is, and I certainly won't hold my breath.

Anyways brah, live for what you know to be true, not what you hope to be true.

Smiley D said:

Every story I described is in the bible. (etc., etc. ... orginal quote is above)

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Every story you described me as believing is in the Bible? Please show me where it says the earth is just thousands of years old. That'll be a new one for me to see!

As far as Noah, Job, etc... so big deal? What do you expect a Christian to say, Christ rose from the dead... but damn, there's no way in hell Noah built an ark? But I'm not even saying he did. Could he have? Sure. I mean hell, if Christ rose from the dead anything is possible. But I'm not even claiming squat about the Old Testament, against evolution, or anything bro. Anyone who claims to know that stuff for sure is full of shit. The old Testament is fucking nuts, and the whole point of Christ is to get out of that system, to fulfill it and be done with it.

Lutheran, Baptist... its all the same on the B.S. meter. Who the started that denomination, Christ, or some person? Christ wasn't a Lutheran, bro. Luther came along 1500 years *after* Christ. Hell, the "Lutherans" don't even believe a lot of what Luther himself taught!

You're accusing me of believing that millions of Africans are going to hell unless they use condoms or some bullshit. How about asking me if I believe that junk first? I've already told you I don't believe the same shit most denominational Christians believe. You are assuming a bunch of (often untrue) shit about my beliefs, and then judging me for that stuff! That "quick to judge" behavior is probably one of the very things you hate about "Christians" (or what you have apparently been raised to think a Christian is), so it is ironic that you have become what you apparently hate.

And what pleasures does "Christianity" teach you must abstain from in order to make it to heaven? Murder? Adultery? Stealing? Lying? And remember, don't give me your Lutheran party-line answer. Give me at least a reference from the New Testament before saying "Christianity" teaches a particular thing. Seriously. Jerry Falwell or whoever you're getting all this shit from is not "Christianity". So don't give me any of this "you must not have sex until you're married" or "you must wear a condom" crap unless you can show me a reference to that from the New Testament.

There are two "anti-pleasure" commands I don't understand (that are in the New Testament). One is to not get drunk. I would think people would be free to do that, because who are they hurting? However, part of the problem is that people take that word to simply mean "tipsy" or whatever. No. The word basically means stone cold fucking drunk... like "I can't walk 2 steps without falling on my face and knocking my God-damn teeth out" drunk. Given that, the "command" is really just good advice.

I mean, if you really love to get that fucking drunk, then, yeah, I guess the New Testament really shits on your parade. At least you won't have to live long with that shit all over your parade though, since your liver is probably shot anyway.

The one other New Testament command that I don't get is the fairly clear statement that homosexuality is sin. I'll be honest about that. It'd seem that if two guys want to fuck each other in the ass, they should be able to. I don't really see who they are hurting. But it seems pretty clear we are to abstain from that. I personally am not affected, since I'm straight and don't particularly like the smell of shit anyway. And if that is your issue, then I guess I understand how that seems fucked up. I don't really know what to say to that. There are people who don't think the verses are clear, and if you can convince yourself of that, honestly, with a clear conscience before God... I say go at that. If God hasn't been clear enough for you, and it turns out you were wrong... He's a pretty God-damn forgiving dude.

But as for me, that's just one of those things I don't understand but I accept anyway. I still believe in living and letting live... the Bible nowhere says anything about using the law to stop other people from sinning. So, its not like I'm trying to change anyone else's behavior.

I used to tell myself I couldn't lie to myself to convince myself Christ was true and all that stuff... basically the same thing you're saying. And by all means, don't lie to yourself. What good would that do you? I'm not telling you to lie to yourself. I'm just telling *my* story. If that bothers you, then that's fine by me. Just remember, you don't necessarily have to knock me or even "Christianity" in general just because you hated growing up Lutheran. By all means knock Lutherans, or Baptists, or whatever B.S. you hate. But Jesus Christ wasn't a fucking Lutheran. If you're going to knock Christ, at least quote him personally before knocking Him.

I say life is not such that we could know that it is wrong for someone to believe these things. True certainty(faith) begins with the heart, and all threads that lead back are worthwhile. My hope is in this thread crossing time where men have been able to look past dogma to see a religion that is their own, and that in this process of ownership is inevitably created something better.

But, it comes to me now that there are really two things you could mean by religion. On the one hand, you could define it as being essentially a nationality, an imposed segregation, a role to play in war.
I was speaking of religion as I define the word, which could be described 'spiritual culture'. A bigger umbrella of a word for me

Personally I take skepticism to its logical conclusion; there is no proof in anything whatsoever. (Therefor, proof may exist, therefor, what I believe is true is true, though changing.)

That's a lie, its not about a rationality its about feelings. Feels like god, must be god, must be me.