Who is your candidate and why?

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
Drama doesn't seem to like that Paul is ardently Anti-Choice. Did you not know that about him before now? Yeah, he calls all abortion murder and tried to change the laws at the Federal Level to make his claim law. Life begins at birth.

Paul wants to remove the Privacy rights from pregnant women. Under his plan, women who become pregnant have to register with the State so the state can protect the fetus until delivery through fear of prosecution towards the mother.

And you guys support that. Just so long as you know.
 

Prefontaine

Well-Known Member
Right, but he doesn't believe in Woman's freedoms and I cannot support a man that doesn't.

But thanks for admitting that you consider him Fault Free. You think he is perfect in every way. I get that. Thanks for admitting it.
but he does believe in women's freedoms, he clearly states that though abortion is against his personal beliefs the federal government has no right to say that they are legal or illegal, that sounds like he is more for women's rights than someone that says you have to buy this or we will fine you and if you dont pay that fine you are going to jail
 

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
Then why did he introduce a Bill, at the Federal Level that would in essence make all abortions murder if passed. He did just that. Twice.

Again, ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL.
 

Prefontaine

Well-Known Member
Drama doesn't seem to like that Paul is ardently Anti-Choice. Did you not know that about him before now? Yeah, he calls all abortion murder and tried to change the laws at the Federal Level to make his claim law. Life begins at birth.

Paul wants to remove the Privacy rights from pregnant women. Under his plan, women who become pregnant have to register with the State so the state can protect the fetus until delivery through fear of prosecution towards the mother.
Bull fucking shit, I wont stand for listening to complete and blatant lies,

Obama signed away our privacy rights with the fucking patriot act, ron paul stands for the federal government having not forcing bull shit like a state registry, Your misrepresenting the information,
 

Prefontaine

Well-Known Member
guess what obama care means that every pregnant women will be in a federal registry ensuring that she gets the federally prescribed medical care she may or may not want or need. OPEN YOU FUCKING EYES
 

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
guess what obama care means that every pregnant women will be in a federal registry ensuring that she gets the federally prescribed medical care she may or may not want or need. OPEN YOU FUCKING EYES
You might want to shove that post back up the ass you pulled it out of. You're not fooling anyone.
 

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
Bull fucking shit, I wont stand for listening to complete and blatant lies,

Obama signed away our privacy rights with the fucking patriot act, ron paul stands for the federal government having not forcing bull shit like a state registry, Your misrepresenting the information,
It's not bullshit man. How do you think a State is going to enforce it's ban on abortion? How is the State going to become aware of the pregnancy so that it can ban the women from crossing state lines and having an abortion? Women are going to have to register with the state.
 

Prefontaine

Well-Known Member
that is for the state to decide for themselves, and as for ron pauls push for the legal acceptance of the scientificly defined beginning of life, that is necessary for us men to have a legal say in the continuation of a life that we have helped to create. the individual states would then have the right to decide for themselves if they want to a socialized healthcare system,

the following is ron paul's stance on abortion and an explanation of his history on this issue (I would rather have a president that tell the truth than one that panders to his audience:


he heated debate about abortion is filled with emotional pseudo-arguments that usually center on secondary considerations such as sexual morality, religious beliefs, women’s rights, or purely on pragmatic reasons: if abortion were made illegal it would still take place – under unsanitary conditions that would endanger additional lives.

However, a rational evaluation of abortion must be built upon one single question: When exactly does human life begin? At conception, at birth or somewhere in between?

Not even the most radical feminist would find it okay to tear apart a recently-born baby just because it is not wanted by its mother. All other considerations aside, the only reason many individuals can support abortion with a good conscience is because they believe it’s not murder… and that unborn babies do not count as human beings.

Ron Paul has delivered more than 4,000 babies. He believes that human life starts at conception, and that casual elimination of the unborn leads to a careless attitude towards all life.

Recalling his personal observation of a late-term abortion performed by one of his instructors during his medical residency, Ron Paul stated, “It was pretty dramatic for me to see a two-and-a-half-pound baby taken out crying and breathing and put in a bucket.”

In an Oct. 27, 1999 speech to Congress, Ron Paul said:

“I am strongly pro-life. I think one of the most disastrous rulings of this century was Roe versus Wade. I do believe in the slippery slope theory. I believe that if people are careless and casual about life at the beginning of life, we will be careless and casual about life at the end. Abortion leads to euthanasia. I believe that.”

During a May 15, 2007, appearance on the Fox News talk show Hannity and Colmes, Ron Paul argued that his pro-life position was consistent with his libertarian values, asking, “If you can’t protect life then how can you protect liberty?” Additionally, Ron Paul said that since he believes libertarians support non-aggression, libertarians should oppose abortion because abortion is “an act of aggression” against a fetus.

At the GOP Values Voter Presidential Debate on Sep 17, 2007, Ron Paul was asked what he will do to restore legal protection to the unborn:

“As an O.B. doctor of thirty years, and having delivered 4,000 babies, I can assure you life begins at conception. I am legally responsible for the unborn, no matter what I do, so there’s a legal life there. The unborn has inheritance rights, and if there’s an injury or a killing, there is a legal entity. There is no doubt about it.”

At the GOP YouTube debate in St. Petersburg, Florida, on Nov 28, 2007, Ron Paul was asked what a women would be charged with if abortion becomes illegal and she obtains an abortion anyway:

“The first thing we have to do is get the federal government out of it. We don’t need a federal abortion police. That’s the last thing that we need. There has to be a criminal penalty for the person that’s committing that crime. And I think that is the abortionist. As for the punishment, I don’t think that should be up to the president to decide.”

For many years, Ron Paul has been speaking up for babies’ rights. He passionately defends those who cannot speak for themselves because they haven’t been born yet.

In order to “offset the effects of Roe v. Wade”, Paul voted in favor of the federal Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003. He has described partial birth abortion as a “barbaric procedure”.

At the same time, Ron Paul believes that the ninth and tenth amendments to the U.S. Constitution do not grant the federal government any authority to legalize or ban abortion. Instead, it is up to the individual states to prohibit abortion.
 

Prefontaine

Well-Known Member
Ron Paul believes that the ninth and tenth amendments to the U.S. Constitution do not grant the federal government any authority to legalize or ban abortion. Instead, it is up to the individual states to prohibit abortion.
 

Prefontaine

Well-Known Member
do you really think that if your state had the right to choose for itself it would choose against the wishes of its citizens? Then maybe you should start getting involved in your state elections.

My home town ran a bio-mass plant out of town, even after they paid off our local officials, because we got involved, changes at the local level are much easier than at the federal level
 

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
ron paul is very clear when he says personal liberty to choose to have healthcare or not to have healthcare
But those that choose to not have HC go to the hospital anyway and the responsible ones that do have HC end up paying for those slackers. Taking something from a system that others pay into is Socialism. Why does Ron Paul support Socialism?
 

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
Ron Paul believes that the ninth and tenth amendments to the U.S. Constitution do not grant the federal government any authority to legalize or ban abortion. Instead, it is up to the individual states to prohibit abortion.
And I disagree with him and hence cannot vote for him. That's all I am saying.
 

Prefontaine

Well-Known Member
here is decent explanation of the ron paul abortion view as described on the view, notice he firmly stands by his position that federal government has no constitutional power to decide either way in the abortion debate and that the real question is who should have the right to decide wether to allow abortions at six weeks six months or moments before delivery, these are arbitrary ages that at one time where decided at the state level.

IMO: at one time federal intervention was necessary ie freeing slaves, providing constitutional rights, etc... however deciding over healthcare, inner state commerce, drug use etc... are things that are not constitutionally defined as being under the power of our federal government, the constitution gives all of these issues that are not specifically stated as under federal jurisdiction to the states to decide for and regulate themselves.

Before R vs W there were abortions, there will always be abortions, I as a Father should have the right to say no you cant kill by son/daughter, I'll take full responsibility for my child and you can go about your life, but my son has a right to live. now in a situation like rape it is common sense that the rapist would have no say, but in consensual risky behavior a woman's rights though fully equal do not supersede my own.

As for at wether a fetus has civil rights at conception or at 3 months, 6 months, or birth itself Ron Paul is very clear that that is for the state to decide and that is the deciding factor in wether a state should allow abortions or not, but that decision of when you have civil rights is not within the jurisdiction of the federal government.

and now the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL1BOWC3No0
 

Prefontaine

Well-Known Member
MY state can fix its own economy and maintain its own social systems and protect its own peoples civil liberties without federal intervention/assistance. if you dont like the state you live in move to a state where people share your views.
 

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
That's fine and RP can have whatever opinion he wants.

But the SCOTUS disagrees with the medical doctor and it is they that has the final say. Maybe the doctor should stick with Medicine. The Constitution is not his specialty. Those people are on the Supreme Court and they have spoken on the matter. That make Ron Paul's opinion Wrong.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
MY state can fix its own economy and maintain its own social systems and protect its own peoples civil liberties without federal intervention/assistance. if you dont like the state you live in move to a state where people share your views.
so your state will not accecpt any Federal monies...what state is that..???? state of confusion
 

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
MY state can fix its own economy and maintain its own social systems and protect its own peoples civil liberties without federal intervention/assistance. if you dont like the state you live in move to a state where people share your views.
When is your state going to deal with HC so that you can opt out of Obama's HC reform? My state plan to opt out starting in 2014. Looks like we are going to end up with a Single payer system that insures everyone in the State.

How is your state doing in that regard?
 

Prefontaine

Well-Known Member
so your state will not accecpt any Federal monies...what state is that..???? state of confusion
if the money going to fund a federal beraucracy that is way to big is redirected towards local programs where the money can be properly managed in a more efficient way, then my state can take care of its own better than anyone sitting on the shores of the Atlantic could ever dream of.

The further you are removed from the people handling your business the less oversight you have on those people,
 
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