Who has bought from Kingbrite Technology Co?

alesh

alesh

Well-Known Member
REALSTYLES said:
He didn't mention what cri or bin but I know it will be top bin and I've read that the lower cri is better. I don't know but I'll try.
Click to expand...
It's probably going to be 80CRI. High CRI will probably come later and be more expensive.
Lower CRI used to be better with CXA's. Now with CXB's high CRI versions received a huge boost in efficiency.
Ie:
CXA3590 80CRI top bin has 25% more lm/W (7% better efficiency) than 90CRI top bin.
CXB3590 80CRI top bin has 10% more lm/W (7% worse efficiency) than 90CRI top bin.
 
D

draz

Well-Known Member
alesh said:
It's probably going to be 80CRI. High CRI will probably come later and be more expensive.
Lower CRI used to be better with CXA's. Now with CXB's high CRI versions received a huge boost in efficiency.
Ie:
CXA3590 80CRI top bin has 25% more lm/W (7% better efficiency) than 90CRI top bin.
CXB3590 80CRI top bin has 10% more lm/W (7% worse efficiency) than 90CRI top bin.
Click to expand...
alesh,

I was wondering if you could provide more analysis on the CXB 90CRI. I'm trying to understand where these numbers(7% better efficiency with 90CRI vs 80CRI) are coming from. I see your post here that you compare the 80vs90cri 3k. I'm wondering if this excludes the >700nm light which is just extra heat? Are these results consistent in the Cree CXB2XXX/3XXX series? This might need to be split to a new thread.
 
alesh

alesh

Well-Known Member
draz said:
alesh,

I was wondering if you could provide more analysis on the CXB 90CRI. I'm trying to understand where these numbers(7% better efficiency with 90CRI vs 80CRI) are coming from. I see your post here that you compare the 80vs90cri 3k. I'm wondering if this excludes the >700nm light which is just extra heat? Are these results consistent in the Cree CXB2XXX/3XXX series? This might need to be split to a new thread.
Click to expand...
SPD's are consistent for CXA/B's. LER for 3000K 80CRI is 323lm/W calculated (there's a mistake in my post you linked, 323 is the correct value - not 327), 325lm/W confirmed by Cree. LER for 90/93CRI is 276 lm/W calculated. [ratio 1.17]
The thing is that for CXB3590 the 80CRI top bin is CB (11000lm) and 90CRI top bin is BD (10000lm) [ratio 1.1]. For CXB3070 the 80CRI top bin is AD (9000lm) and 90CRI top bin is Z2 (7390lm) [ratio 1.22]. So if you're getting top bins, then
90CRI [BD] > 80CRI [CB] for CXB3590 and
80CRI > 90CRI for CXB3070.
 
Last edited:
D

draz

Well-Known Member
alesh said:
SPD's are consistent for CXA/B's. LER for 3000K 80CRI is 323lm/W calculated (there's a mistake in my post you linked, 323 is the correct value - not 327), 325lm/W confirmed by Cree. LER for 90/93CRI is 276 lm/W calculated. [ratio 1.17]
The thing is that for CXB3590 the 80CRI top bin is CB (11000lm) and 90CRI top bin is BD (10000lm) [ratio 1.1]. For CXB3070 the 80CRI top bin is AD (9000lm) and 90CRI top bin is Z2 (7390lm) [ratio 1.22]. So if you're getting top bins, then
90CRI > 80CRI for CXB3590 and
80CRI > 90CRI for CXB3070.
Click to expand...
I'm still struggling with how you determined that the 90CRI are more efficient than 80CRI. Do you have numbers that show PPF of both spectrum's?
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
draz said:
I'm still struggling with how you determined that the 90CRI are more efficient than 80CRI. Do you have numbers that show PPF of both spectrum's?
Click to expand...
If one watt was emitted from a 100% efficient 90 cri cxb3590 BD(top bin 90 cri) 3K it would produce 276lumens...known as it's LER...or maximum output per watt of energy that spectrum could possibly ever achieve.

If one watt was emitted from a 100% efficient 80 cri cxb3590 CB(top bin 80cri) 3K it would produce 325lumens...it's LER or maximum possible ever output per watt.

Both have the exact same energy output of 1 watt...but because the weighting of different colors to make lumens, each different spectrum has different potential maximums in the lumen category. LER is what takes away the human eye biased lumen factor and evens it out into radiant watts.

Efficiency is calculated by performance output(the lm/w at the drive current) divided by the maximum potential(LER). Lumens per watt is only relevant when the two light sources have the same spectrum/LER. Lumens/watt means nothing in 80 vs 90 cri...but with the LER and the ability to calculate efficiency...it tells us how much light is really coming out in a form that plants can use.
Example:
An led doing 140lm/w with a LER of 325...140/325=~43% while a led only putting out 118lm/w but has a LER of 276...118/276=~43%

It is hard to think about sometimes because the lm/w is so much lower and it mind fucks us a little...but there is more energy being emitted as light, and that is what the plants are seeing.
 
Last edited:
L

LeanMcsheen

Active Member
Greengenes707 said:
If one watt was emitted from a 100% efficient cxb3590 BD(top bin 90 cri) 3K it would produce 276lumens...known as it's LER...or maximum output per watt of energy that spectrum could possibly ever achieve.

If one watt was emitted from a 100% efficient cxb3590 CB(top bin 80cri) 3K it would produce 325lumens...it's LER or maximum possible ever output per watt.

Both have the exact same energy output of 1 watt...but because the weighting of different colors to make lumens, each different spectrum has different potential maximums in the lumen category. LER is what takes away the human eye biased lumen factor and evens it out into radiant watts.

Efficiency is calculated by performance output(the lm/w at the drive current) divided by the maximum potential(LER). Lumens per watt is only relevant when the two light sources have the same spectrum/LER. Lumens/watt means nothing in 80 vs 90 cri...but with the LER and the ability to calculate efficiency...it tells us how much light is really coming out in a form that plants can use.
Example:
An led doing 140lm/w with a LER of 325...140/325=~43% while a led only putting out 118lm/w but has a LER of 276...118/276=~43%

It is hard to think about sometimes because the lm/w is so much lower and it mind fucks us a little...but there is more energy being emitted as light, and that is what the plants are seeing.
Click to expand...

This helped me get my head round it better, thanks GG!
 
D

draz

Well-Known Member
Greengenes707 said:
If one watt was emitted from a 100% efficient 90 cri cxb3590 BD(top bin 90 cri) 3K it would produce 276lumens...known as it's LER...or maximum output per watt of energy that spectrum could possibly ever achieve.

If one watt was emitted from a 100% efficient 80 cri cxb3590 CB(top bin 80cri) 3K it would produce 325lumens...it's LER or maximum possible ever output per watt.

Both have the exact same energy output of 1 watt...but because the weighting of different colors to make lumens, each different spectrum has different potential maximums in the lumen category. LER is what takes away the human eye biased lumen factor and evens it out into radiant watts.

Efficiency is calculated by performance output(the lm/w at the drive current) divided by the maximum potential(LER). Lumens per watt is only relevant when the two light sources have the same spectrum/LER. Lumens/watt means nothing in 80 vs 90 cri...but with the LER and the ability to calculate efficiency...it tells us how much light is really coming out in a form that plants can use.
Example:
An led doing 140lm/w with a LER of 325...140/325=~43% while a led only putting out 118lm/w but has a LER of 276...118/276=~43%

It is hard to think about sometimes because the lm/w is so much lower and it mind fucks us a little...but there is more energy being emitted as light, and that is what the plants are seeing.
Click to expand...
Thanks Greengenes707,

The only thing that has me slightly wary is as I mentioned the boost in output >700nm. Obviously we're looking at very small percent differences but it's useful to have a complete understanding of what we are supplying to our plants.
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
alesh said:
SPD's are consistent for CXA/B's. LER for 3000K 80CRI is 323lm/W calculated (there's a mistake in my post you linked, 323 is the correct value - not 327), 325lm/W confirmed by Cree. LER for 90/93CRI is 276 lm/W calculated. [ratio 1.17]
The thing is that for CXB3590 the 80CRI top bin is CB (11000lm) and 90CRI top bin is BD (10000lm) [ratio 1.1]. For CXB3070 the 80CRI top bin is AD (9000lm) and 90CRI top bin is Z2 (7390lm) [ratio 1.22]. So if you're getting top bins, then
90CRI > 80CRI for CXB3590 and
80CRI > 90CRI for CXB3070.
Click to expand...
Maybe this indicates is that we may see the CXB3590 3000K 80 CRi DB bin, and posssibly that we will never see the CXB3590 3000K 90 CRi BD bin?
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
Maybe this indicates is that we may see the CXB3590 3000K 80 CRi DB bin, and posssibly that we will never see the CXB3590 3000K 90 CRi BD bin?
Click to expand...
I bet you it has something to do with the fact that there's more blue output relative to the 80cri version. (i think). To keep it 3000k with the extra blue, some more yellow is shifted over to the red. In other words, the reason it's more efficient this time is less blue is converted. (just my guess)

If this is the case, it could be good for those who want extra blue, but bad for those trying to avoid extra blue.
 
Last edited:
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
That may be, but judging by the CXB3070 bins, the 90 CRI may still be less efficient of a spectrum because generally to increase CRi they need more red. More red means a further shift away from blue, and therefore less efficient outcome (assuming they both came from the same blue chip). But if Cree reserved the very best blue chips for the 90 CRi, then it could be possible that the 90 could equal the 80.

@draz makes a good point as well, more of the 90 CRI SPD is falling above 700nm, so more of the useful blue light is being converted into non-photosynthetic far red light and decreasing efficiency.

So if we actually got access to the top bins currently listed for CXB3590 3000K, I would suspect that the 90 CRi would have to use higher efficiency blue chips to match the 80 CRi output. But those top bins 90s may never become available and we may see a higher top bin in 80CRi that does actually become available.

Maybe Kingbrite demand will influence Cree as far as which COBs they manufacture and release to the retail outlets. For horticultural CXAs, bigger is better so if they can get us top bin CXB3590s for a competitive price, they will get a nice chunk of the upcoming COB grow lamp mania.
 
Last edited:
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
I think discussing whether extra 700-800nm should be counted as waste, a bonus is controversial. For sure it doesn't count as part of the photosynthetic range even though it can be absorbed for photosynthesis, but it's possible that lowering the R:FR ratio could be beneficial at certain points in flowering. It's also possible that's a load of shit... lol.

I'm not entirely convinced that shifting the phosphor peak over toward the red will actually result in better flowering results anyway. It would be great to see some comparisons. It's possible the 80cri spectrum could flat out be better than 90cri in terms of generating yield in grams, efficiency being the same.
 
Last edited:
alesh

alesh

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
That may be, but judging by the CXB3070 bins, the 90 CRI may still be less efficient of a spectrum because generally to increase CRi they need more red. Mor red means a further shift away from blue, and therefore less efficient outcome (assuming they both came from the same blue chip). But if Cree reserved the very best blue chips for the 90 CRi, then it could be possible that the 90 could equal the 80.

@draz makes a good point as well, more of the 90 CRI SPD is falling above 700nm, so more of the useful blue light is being converted into non-photosynthetic far red light and decreasing efficiency.

So if we actually got access to the top bins currently listed for CXB3590 3000K, I would suspect that the 90 CRi would have to use higher efficiency blue chips to match the 80 CRi output. But those top bins 90s may never become available and we may see a higher top bin in 80CRi that does actually become available.

Maybe Kingbrite demand will influence Cree as far as which COBs they manufacture and release to the retail outlets. For horticultural CXAs, bigger is better so if they can get us top bin CXB3590s for a competitive price, they will get a nice chunk up the upcoming COB grow lamp mania.
Click to expand...
You're completely true. DB bin changes the game back to 80CRI and I think it'll cheaper and much more available.
 
D

deadgro

Well-Known Member
I did some research, and it would appear Kingbrite is associated with a company based in Southern California. Wouldn't it be cheaper to order from within the states?
 
REALSTYLES

REALSTYLES

Well-Known Member
deadgro said:
I did some research, and it would appear Kingbrite is associated with a company based in Southern California. Wouldn't it be cheaper to order from within the states?
Click to expand...
The company is probably buying from Kingbrite so why pay more when you can pay less?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top