Which to use b52 or overdrive

Discussion in 'Nutrients' started by Wubstepp, Feb 11, 2013.

  1.  
    Wubstepp

    Wubstepp Active Member

    I have sensi grow and bloom, big bud and liquid carboload. I can only grab one right now and im wondering which do i need more? The b-52 or the overdrive?
  2.  
    dbkick

    dbkick Well-Known Member

    some are gonna tell you neither. I say the b52 .
  3.  
    dbkick

    dbkick Well-Known Member

    I got great results with sensi grow/bloom a/b , big bud , b52 and bud candy. to buy the entire AN lineup is just senseless.
  4.  
    budman111

    budman111 Well-Known Member

    Considering B vitamins are a con and useless to a plant...
  5.  
    Wubstepp

    Wubstepp Active Member

    So im going with thee overdrive then.... :) Thanks!
  6.  
    dbkick

    dbkick Well-Known Member

    imagine that, a vitamin is the first listed ingredient on the overdrive.
    They discovered a never-before-used combination of vitamins, organic materials, nutrients and other ingredients that make Overdrive a powerhouse harvest-boosting formula used by thousands of growers worldwide.
    overdrive is a con.
  7.  
    dbkick

    dbkick Well-Known Member

    don't question why, just take it.
  8.  
    Wubstepp

    Wubstepp Active Member

    So both overdrive and b-52 are a con. So what about the big bud and liquid carboload I already have?
  9.  
    dbkick

    dbkick Well-Known Member

    I dunno when they make claims like this on their page "As you can see, B vitamins are absolutely essential- without them, your plants die."
    I probably wouldn't spend any more money on AN stuff myself.
  10.  
    dbkick

    dbkick Well-Known Member

    I ran basic stuff, sensi base a/b , big bud, bud candy. nothing else. got good results.
  11.  
    dbkick

    dbkick Well-Known Member

    err b52 also, but I guess I wasted my money , even though there is more too it than b vitamins.
  12.  
    budman111

    budman111 Well-Known Member

    what is that then? according to the AN website only thing extra it has is a common cheap as hell seaweed and NPK of 2-1-4

    In other words the only person getting anything from this is the chain of vendors that the bottle went through to get to you.

    Did you know it was an obscure experiment in the 1930's provided the basis for B vitamin myth?

    http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopExt/4DMG/Garden/beware.htm

    Bottom line is if you guys get relief gnawing on a rock then by all means gnaw on that rock.
  13.  
    patlpp

    patlpp New Member


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    [TD]B-52 - Technical Description

    B-52 Research Dossier
    ©2007, Advanced Nutrients International Hydroponics Research Team
    B-52:

    • Increases your growth rates and yield weight
    • Increases your plants’ metabolism and energy levels
    • Enhances your plants carbohydrate synthesis
    • Strengthens your plants so you get safer crops

    Vitamin B1 (thiamine)
    Thiamine (vitamin B1) is generally considered to be an essential ingredient for plant tissue cultures and is usually added at 0.1±5 mg l21. Biotin (vitamin H) is less common in culture media and is usually added at 0.01± 1 mg l21 (Bhojwani and Razdan, 1983; Pierik, 1987). Thiamine is an important cofactor in carbohydrate metabolism, and biotin is important in carboxylation reactions.

    “Optimization of biotin and thiamine requirements for somatic embryogenesis of date palm (Phoenix dactylifera L.)” in In Vitro Cellular Developmental Biology-Plant. 2001. 37(4): 1054-5476 (Print) 1475-2689 (Online)

    Thiamine is a cofactor (molecule that binds to an enzyme to help/allow it to function) important in the construction and break down of carbohydrates (for growth or energy storage/release)

    Folic Acid
    To varying degrees, plant folates are all unstable, particularly to oxidative cleavage into pteridine and PABA-glutamyl fragments. This oxidative degradation is promoted by light. Folates are, however, stabilized in vivo when they are bound to protein. Despite their low abundance and lability, pools of plant folates support huge metabolic fluxes. … [The folate pool turnover is] several times faster than the rate of ATP turnover in leaves, which is itself very rapid.

    “Synthesis and turnover of folates in plants” in Current Opinion in Plant Biology. 2002. 5(3): 244-249

    Folic Acid
    Folates are essential cofactors for one-carbon transfer reactions, which are central to plant metabolism.

    “Synthesis and turnover of folates in plants” in Current Opinion in Plant Biology. 2002. 5(3): 244-249

    Vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid)
    [Pantothenic acid] is of ubiquitous occurrence and has been found essential for the growth of many bacteria and to stimulate the growth of green plants and the respiration of widely different tissues. It appears to be an essential constituent of some important enzyme systems.

    “The Relationship of Inositol, Thiamin, Biotin, Pantothenic Acid and Vitamin Bb to the Growth of Yeasts.” 1940. Journal of the American Chemical Society. 62: 1204

    Vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid)
    Pantothenate (vitamin B5) is the universal precursor for the synthesis of the 4'-phosphopantetheine moiety of coenzyme A and acyl carrier protein, enzyme co-factors essential for key metabolic and energy-yielding pathways of all living cells.

    “Organisation of the pantothenate (vitamin B5) biosynthesis pathway in higher plants” in The Plant Journal. 2004. 37(1): 61-72 Vitamin B1 (thiamine)
    Thiamine occurs in animals, plants, and microbes as free thiamine and the phosphorylated forms thiaminemonophosphate (TMP), thiamine pyrophosphate (TPP), and thiamine triphosphate. These forms act as coenzymes in numerous physiological processes, including glycolysis, the pentose phosphate pathway, and the synthesis of nucleic acids and the niacin-containing coenzyme NADPH.

    “Vitamin B1 Functions as an Activator of Plant Disease Resistance” in Plant Physiology. 2005. 138(3): 1505-15

    B52:

    • Increases growth, yield, and maturation
    • Makes earlier harvests
    • Creates larger, higher quality harvests

    Kelp Meal (auxin)
    Two new auxins, as yet unidentified, but unlike any of the known indolyl-acetic acid types, were also discovered in 1958 in the Laminaria and Ascophyllum seaweeds used for processing into dried seaweed meal and liquid extract. These auxins have been found to encourage the growth of more cells -- in which they differ from more familiar types of auxin which simply enlarge the cells without increasing their number. One of the auxins also stimulates growth in both stems and roots of plants, and in this differs from indolyl-acetic acid and its derivatives, which cause cells to elongate but not to divide. The balanced action of this seaweed auxin has not been found in any other auxin.

    Stephenson, W.A. Seaweed in Agriculture and Horticulture: Seaweed and Plant Growth. Faber & Faber. 1968.

    Vitamins
    Vitamins are nitrogenous substances required in trace amounts to serve catalytic functions in enzyme systems. Plant cells grown in vitro are capable of synthesizing essential vitamins in suboptimal quantities; thus, culture media are often supplemented with vitamins to enhance growth.

    “Optimization of biotin and thiamine requirements for somatic embryogenesis of date palm (Phoenix dactylifera L.)” in In Vitro Cellular Developmental Biology-Plant. 2001. 37(4): 1054-5476 (Print) 1475-2689 (Online)

    Vitamins help enzymes. Enzymes run practically everything in a plant (growth, energy production etc). No vitamins = limited enzyme function = decreased growth, among other horrible things.

    - folic acid Supports effective DNA duplication

    Vitamin B1 (thiamine)
    However, if vitamin B, is added to the medium in small amounts (0.001 mgm. per embryo), not only is the growth of the root increased, (93, 25) but the final length of the shoot may also be increased by 100 per cent or more.

    “Plant Growth Hormones” in Physiological Reviews. 1938. 18(4): 524-553

    Vitamin B1 (thiamine)
    When vitamin B1 is applied to the roots of pea embryos it greatly increases the synthesis of vitamin C in the shoot (26). Vitamin C is also a growth factor for the shoot.

    “Plant Growth Hormones” in Physiological Reviews. 1938. 18(4): 524-553

    Vitamins B2, B3, B7, and folic acid
    In the present study, vitamins, pyridoxine, folic acid, riboflavin, niacin, D-biotin and menadione sodium bisulphite (MSB) were used to treat pearl millet seeds to test their ability to induce resistance to downy mildew disease caused bySclerospora graminicola. A 6 h seed-soak treatment with vitamins at 20 mM enhanced germination and seedling vigour significantly and also induced downy mildew disease resistance. Among them, MSB treatments offered 73% protection while niacin and riboflavin gave 63% and 62% protection, respectively. … The vitamin treatments had a growth promotional effect and significantly increased the yield compared with the untreated control. Possibilities for controlling downy mildew disease of pearl millet with vitamins are discussed.

    “Ability of vitamins to induce downy mildew disease resistance and growth promotion in pearl millet.” In Crop Protection. 2007. 26(11): 1674-1681

    Vitamin B1 (thiamine)
    In earlier papers it has been shown that the growth of numerous species of plants is promoted by small additions of vitamin B1 to the soil or sand in which the plants are grown (Bonner and Greene, 1938, 1939). Vitamin B1, which is known to be essential to the growth of roots (Kogl and Haagen- Smit, 1936; Bonner, 1937b; Robbins and Bartley, 1937), is synthesized by the green leaves, and it seems probable (Bonner and Greene, 1939) that in certain species the amount of vitanlin so synthesized is not sufficient to meet the requirements for optimal root growth. The promotive effect of vitamin B1 on the growth of plants is then understandable on the basis of the role this substance plays as a root growth factor.

    “On the Influence of Various Growth Factors on the Growth of Green Plants” in American Journal of Botany. 1940. 27(1): 38-42.

    Vitamins B1, B3 + B6
    The root growth factors, nicotinic acid and vitamin B6, in addition to vitamin B1, whose effect has previously been reported, influence particularly the growth of the root system. The effects of these substances on the general vigor of the plant may be mainly secondary and attributable to the primary influence on the root system.

    “On the Influence of Various Growth Factors on the Growth of Green Plants” in American Journal of Botany. 1940. 27(1): 38-42.

    Seaweed extract
    The majority of fruit on control plants were found to ripen after three or four fruits had already been harvested from SWC-treated plants. Most improved fruit growth was noted when SWC was applied to plants as a foliar spray.

    “Effect of seaweed concentrate on the establishment and yield of greenhouse tomato plants.” Journal of Applied Phycology. 1992. 4: 291-296

    Seaweed Extract
    SWC-treated plants exhibited early fruit ripening and a total fruit fresh weight increase of 17%. The number of harvested fruit was improved by about 10%.

    “Effect of seaweed concentrate on the establishment and yield of greenhouse tomato plants” in Journal of Applied Phycology. 1992. 4: 291-296

    Seaweed extract
    “SWC stimulated early fruit ripening and production. Nearly 60 % of all the first fruit picked, and over 50% of all the second, were from plants treated with 0.2% and 0.4% SWC respectively (Fig. 4). The majority of fruit on control plants were found to ripen after three or four fruits had already been harvested from SWC-treated plants. Most improved fruit growth was noted when SWC was applied to plants as a foliar spray. … Plants sprayed with 0.4% SWC showed a 10% increase in total fruit number (results not shown) and a 17% increase in total fruit fresh weight (Fig. 6). The 0.2 % SWC spray treatment improved the average fruit weight of all harvested fruit by 11.8% (Fig. 7). A flower count at the termination of the experiment indicated that plants receiving 0.4% SWC as a foliar spray had 70% more flowers remaining than non-treated plants (Fig. 8).”

    “Effect of seaweed concentrate on the establishment and yield of greenhouse tomato plants.” Journal of Applied Phycology. 1992. 4: 291-296

    Seaweed extract (cytokinin)
    Ramirez and Hoad (1979) showed that zeatin (a naturally occurring cytokinin) promotes flower initiation in apple. Srinivasan and Mullins (1978, 1979) reported that treating grape (Vitis vinifera L.) apices with PBA (a synthetic cytokinin) caused inflorescence and fruit development in four-week-old seedlings; without treatment, flowering did not occur until three to five years of age. There is also some evidence that cytokinin treatment can affect the gender of the flowers produced (Galoch 1980).

    “Floral induction in woody angiosperms.” in New Forests. 1997. 14: 179–202

    did not mention how cytokinin may affect flower gender. Did not mention possible effects on developing seeds. Interesting though.

    Seaweed Extract
    “A wide range of beneficial effects have been reported from the use of liquid seaweed extracts, including increased crop yields, resistance of plants to frost, increased uptake of inorganic constituents from the soil, more resistance to stress conditions, and reductions in storage losses of fruit.”

    “Cytokinin Activity of Seaweed Extracts.” In Marine Natural Products Chemistry. 1977. pp: 337-344

    B52 protects plants and quarantines infected tissues

    Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin)
    Following treatment with riboflavin, Arabidopsis thaliana developed systemic resistance to Peronospora parasitica and Pseudomonas syringae pv. Tomato and tobacco developed systemic resistance to Tobacco mosaic virus (TMV) andAlternaria alternata. … Riboflavin induced expression of pathogenesis-related (PR) genes in the plants, suggesting its ability to trigger a signal transduction pathway that leads to systemic resistance.

    “Riboflavin Induces Disease Resistance in Plants by Activating a Novel Signal Transduction Pathway” in Phytopathology. 2000. 90(8): 801-811

    Vitamin B1 (thiamine)
    We demonstrate here that thiamine, in addition to its nutritional value, induces systemic acquired resistance (SAR) in plants. Thiamine-treated rice, Arabidopsis (Arabidopsis thaliana), and vegetable crop plants showed resistance to fungal, bacterial, and viral infections. Thiamine treatment induces the transient expression of pathogenesis-related (PR) genes in rice and other plants. In addition, thiamine treatment potentiates stronger and more rapid PR gene expression and the up-regulation of protein kinase C activity. The effects of thiamine on disease resistance and defense-related gene expression mobilize systemically throughout the plant and last for more than 15 d after treatment.

    “Vitamin B1 Functions as an Activator of Plant Disease Resistance” in Plant Physiology. 2005. 138(3): 1505-15

    Vitamin B1, B3, and B7 (thiamine, niacin, and biotin)
    Like the antibiotics, the vitamins also produce significant changes in host susceptibility or resistance to infection. Thus, it is evident from the data presented in Figure 3 that, in this example, whereas niacin produced an eightfold decrease in the level of parasitism when administered in .1% concentration, this effect was reduced to a 3.5-fold decrease in parasitism when the concentration was raised to the maximum tolerated dosage of .5%. On the other hand, both thiamine and biotin continue to increase host resistance with increasing concentration of the drug in the mosquito diet and produce their maximal effects on the host-parasite equilibrium at maximum tolerated concentrations.

    “A Study of the Relation of Antibiotics, Vitamins, and Hormones to Immunity to Infection.” In The Journal of Immunology. 1953. 70 (1): 115-123

    Vitamins B2, B3, B7, and folic acid
    In the present study, vitamins, pyridoxine, folic acid, riboflavin, niacin, D-biotin and menadione sodium bisulphite (MSB) were used to treat pearl millet seeds to test their ability to induce resistance to downy mildew disease caused bySclerospora graminicola. A 6 h seed-soak treatment with vitamins at 20 mM enhanced germination and seedling vigour significantly and also induced downy mildew disease resistance. Among them, MSB treatments offered 73% protection while niacin and riboflavin gave 63% and 62% protection, respectively. … The vitamin treatments had a growth promotional effect and significantly increased the yield compared with the untreated control. Possibilities for controlling downy mildew disease of pearl millet with vitamins are discussed.

    “Ability of vitamins to induce downy mildew disease resistance and growth promotion in pearl millet.” In Crop Protection. 2007. 26(11): 1674-1681

    Vitamin B1 (thiamine)
    In this study, we present a novel role for thiamine as a plant defense activator that induces SAR. Thiamine activates SAR-related genes in rice, tobacco, tomato (Lycopersicon esculentum), cucumber (Cucumis sativus), and Arabidopsis and prevents several diseases caused by semibiotrophic and biotrophic pathogens.

    “Vitamin B1 Functions as an Activator of Plant Disease Resistance” in Plant Physiology. 2005. 138(3): 1505-15

    B52 supports survival and rapid rooting for transplants and cuttings

    Vitamin B1(thiamine) + B3(niacin) + B6
    In confirmation of earlier work by others (Robbins and Schmidt, 1939a), it is shown that isolated tomato roots can be cultivated indefinitely at an average growth rate of 40 mm. per week in medium containing only vitamins B1 and B6. The growth rate, however, could be increased to 60 mm. per week by the addition of nicotinic acid to the medium.

    “Growth Factor Requirements of Four Species of Isolated Roots” in American Journal of Botany. 1939. 26(8): 661-665.

    Nicotinic acid = niacin

    Seaweed Extract
    Atzmon and Van Staden (unpublished data) recently found that root application of SWC [seaweed concentrate] to Pinus pinea seedlings improved seedling quality and increased the ability of seedlings to survive transplanting.

    “Evidence for the presence of plant growth regulators in commercial seaweed products.” in Plant Growth Regulation. 1993. 13: 21-29

    Seaweed Extract (auxin) and Vitamin B1 (thiamine)
    If a cutting is to root, it is necessary first that root primordia be initiated, and, then that these primordia grow out into functional roots. For the first process, auxin is essential. … In addition, vitamin B, is probably essential for root growth on cuttings, although it is without effect on the initiation of root primordia. The rooting of cuttings of Camellia, Dracena and some others is strictly limited by the available vitamin B. It is probable that vitamin B1 is the “factor necessary for the growth of roots” which is produced in the leaves of leafy cuttings.

    “Plant Growth Hormones” in Physiological Reviews. 1938. 18(4): 524-553

    Vitamin B1 (thiamine)
    Vitamin B1 is in fact a general growth factor for roots of higher plants (188). There is abundant evidence in the older vitamin literature that vitamin B1 is formed in green leaves in the light and is stored in seeds (80, 21). Thus vitamin B1 is to be considered as a plant growth hormone, since it is formed in one part of the plant and transported to another part. It affects root growth primarily because it is essential for cell division in the root meristem (1).

    “Plant Growth Hormones” in Physiological Reviews. 1938. 18(4): 524-553

    Seaweed Extract (cytokinins)
    The application of commercial seaweed preparation has many beneficial effects on plants Metting et al. 1990). Among the effects reported is improved rooting of cuttings of several ornamentals and a significant increase in root initiation and growth. Some of these effects have been attributed to the presence of growth substances such as cytokinins, which are known to occur at relatively high levels in various seaweeds and commercial seaweed preparations.

    “The effect of seaweed concentrate on the growth of Pinus pinea seedlings.” In New Forests. 1994. 8: 279-288

    Vitamin B1 (thiamine)
    Thiamine application also favored induction and growth of adventitious roots (Tables 1and 2). Treatment with 600 ppm thiamine had a significant effect on various parameters except root length. The treatment promoted rooting by 4.89 fold (489%), callusing by 0.51 fold (51%), sprouting by 0.39 fold (39%), root number by 2.31 fold (231%), root fresh weight by 3.21 fold (321%) and root dry weight by 1.69 fold (169%) over the respective controls. However, treatment with 400 ppm thiamine produced the significantly longest roots and the greatest thiamine dose invariably became supra-optimal for all parameters.

    “Synergism Between IBA and Thiamine for Induction and Growth of Adventitious Roots in Tectona grandis” in Journal of Sustainable Forestry. 2002. 15(4): 99-112

    B52 increases stress tolerance

    Seaweed Extract (Betaines)
    “Certain crop plants such as rice, soybeans, and potatoes lack significant amounts of betaines or any other osmoprotectant. This deficiency is the rationale for recent interest in using metabolic engineering technology to install the synthesis of osmoprotectants in such crops in order to improve their tolerance to drought, salinity, and other stresses.”

    “Betaines and related osmoprotectants. Targets for metabolic engineering of stress resistance.” In Plant Physiology. 1999. 120: 945-949

    Seaweed Extract
    “A wide range of beneficial effects have been reported from the use of liquid seaweed extracts, including increased crop yields, resistance of plants to frost, increased uptake of inorganic constituents from the soil, more resistance to stress conditions, and reductions in storage losses of fruit.”

    “Cytokinin Activity of Seaweed Extracts.” In Marine Natural Products Chemistry. 1977. pp:337-344

    B 52 makes nutrients more available

    Seaweed extract (auxin)
    Auxin stimulates the differentiation of vascular tissue, thus increasing the supply of nutrients and hormones to developing organs and hastening their development (Bruinsma 1974).

    “Floral induction in woody angiosperms.” in New Forests. 1997. 14: 179–202

    Seaweed Extract
    “A wide range of beneficial effects have been reported from the use of liquid seaweed extracts, including increased crop yields, resistance of plants to frost, increased uptake of inorganic constituents from the soil, more resistance to stress conditions, and reductions in storage losses of fruit.”

    “Cytokinin Activity of Seaweed Extracts.” In Marine Natural Products Chemistry. 1977. pp:337-344

    Kelp Meal (chelates)
    Once chelated, minerals can be seven to ten times more available than in their natural form.

    “Seaweed,” Microtech Production Holdings plc, 2004

    Kelp Meal (chelates)
    Such chelating properties are possessed by the starches, sugars and carbohydrates in seaweed and seaweed products. As a result, these constituents are in natural combination with the iron, cobalt, copper, manganese, zinc and other trace elements found naturally in seaweed. That is why these trace elements in seaweed and seaweed products do not settle out, even in alkaline soils, but remain available to plants which need them.

    Stephenson, W.A. Seaweed in Agriculture and Horticulture: Seaweed and Plant Growth. Faber & Faber. 1968.

    Kelp Meal (alginic acid)
    “Seaweed, and seaweed products, improve the water-holding characteristics of soil and help the formation of crumb structure. They do this because the alginic acid in the seaweed combines with metallic radicals in the soil to form a polymer with greatly increased molecular weight.”

    Stephenson, W.A. Seaweed in Agriculture and Horticulture: Seaweed and Plant Growth. Faber & Faber. 1968.


    Besides, if people use it, done side-by-sides and can attest that it works, then there must be more to it. I personally do not use it, I have found that it improves survivability when the plant is stressed. I however grow indoors where these stresses are minimal . A good alternative is GH's Floralicious + , has all the stuff b-52 has at a fraction of the cost (yes it has vitamins and such even though they don't state that on the label but in the GH blog they tell you all the goodies it does have)

    I might try Heavy 16 prime. It is one soup that has all kinds of additives in one (isn't that what everybody wants?) even silica at 25$/liter.

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  14.  
    patlpp

    patlpp New Member

    I can attest that Overdrive works, and it works well. But I also found that it extends the flower time required to reach maturity (90% milky and 10% red trichs) and have done the math and concluded that it is more economically feasible NOT to use it. Time is money.
  15.  
    Wubstepp

    Wubstepp Active Member

    I got the overdrive, so I will let you guys know how it turns out,
  16.  
    budman111

    budman111 Well-Known Member

    The trouble i have about OD is it says you will see more growth the last few weeks but spoiler alert: This should happen anyway so unless you do a side by side comparison...

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