Where the heck do illegal growers get 5,000+ plants?

"10 suspected of growing 5,000-plus marijuana plants in California's Lake County"

https://www.northbaybusinessjournal.com/northbay/lakecounty/8854151-181/california-lake-county-cannabis-marijuana-arrest?artslide=14&slide=GAL

This question has haunted me ever since I started growing my own from bag seed in the 1980s: how on earth do illegal growers get reliable seeds? If they are just using their own random seeds from pollinated plants, how do they keep from selling crappy flowers that are likely to be mixed in with the "good" buds?

My general observation is, if you sprout 10 random bag seeds, you'll get approximately 50 percent male, 50 percent female. So you'll have five female plants. After harvest, you can test the flowers and most likely you'll find maybe one plant that is absolutely the "queen" and produces flowers that are a lot more desirable than what you get off at least three of the four remaining female plants. There will also be at least one female that is pretty darn worthless, though the buds may be just as healthy looking, dank and sticky as the best flowers from the "queen," but they will barely give you the slightest hint of a buzz. So you'll have three females that fall in the spectrum between best and worst. If you're lucky, you may have a second female plant that is a close "runner-up" to the one that won the beauty pageant, maybe it even produces marketable flowers... but at best, that's maybe 40 percent of your females cranking out the good stuff. The remaining 60 percent is going to be either "meh" or "I want my $10 back for that dirt weed you sold me, jerkwad!"

So how does a criminal enterprise nail down the genetics of whatever they are growing from year to year? It's got to be even harder for them because: 1) They are growing thousands of plants at a time. 2) The operation has to be completely invisible from John Law. 3) Don't mean to engage in any kind of stereotyping, but the farm hands in these operations are not, like, UC Davis grad students majoring in agricultural science. I get the impression that most of them never finished any kind of school. They are, bluntly speaking, criminals, not rocket (or roquette) scientists. So I would guess that the procedures they follow have to be so simple that any idiot can do it.

So where do these plants come from? Seed? Clone? Secret greenhouses cranking out popular strains?

ltecato said:

"10 suspected of growing 5,000-plus marijuana plants in California's Lake County"

https://www.northbaybusinessjournal.com/northbay/lakecounty/8854151-181/california-lake-county-cannabis-marijuana-arrest?artslide=14&slide=GAL

This question has haunted me ever since I started growing my own from bag seed in the 1980s: how on earth do illegal growers get reliable seeds? If they are just using their own random seeds from pollinated plants, how do they keep from selling crappy flowers that are likely to be mixed in with the "good" buds?

My general observation is, if you sprout 10 random bag seeds, you'll get approximately 50 percent male, 50 percent female. So you'll have five female plants. After harvest, you can test the flowers and most likely you'll find maybe one plant that is absolutely the "queen" and produces flowers that are a lot more desirable that what you get off at least three of the four remaining female plants. There will also be at least one female that is pretty darn worthless, though the buds may be just as healthy looking, dank and sticky as the best flowers from the "queen," but they will barely give you the slightest hint of a buzz. So you'll have three females that fall in the spectrum between best and worst. If you're lucky, you may have a second female plant that is a close "runner-up" to the one that won the beauty pageant, maybe it even produces marketable flowers... but at best, that's maybe 40 percent of your females cranking out the good stuff. The remaining 60 percent is going to be either "meh" or "I want my $10 back for that dirt weed you sold me, jerkwad!"

So how does a criminal enterprise nail down the genetics of whatever they are growing from year to year? It's got to be even harder for them because: 1) They are growing thousands of plants at a time. 2) The operation has to be completely invisible from John Law. 3) Don't mean to engage in any kind of stereotyping, but the farm hands in these operations are not, like, UC Davis grad students majoring in agricultural science. I get the impression that most of them never finished any kind of school. They are, bluntly speaking, criminals, not rocket (or roquette) scientists. So I would guess that the procedures they follow have to be so simple that any idiot can do it.

So where do these plants come from? Seed? Clone? Secret greenhouses cranking out popular strains?

Click to expand...

Clone dispensaries where legal

On an operation that size they likely have their own seed farm somewhere.
Its a criminal organization. Quality control usually isnt a huge concern.

all clones I can start 1000 in a 4x4,them boys aint digging holes for males!

ltecato said:

So how does a criminal enterprise nail down the genetics of whatever they are growing from year to year? It's got to be even harder for them because: 1) They are growing thousands of plants at a time. 2) The operation has to be completely invisible from John Law. 3) Don't mean to engage in any kind of stereotyping, but the farm hands in these operations are not, like, UC Davis grad students majoring in agricultural science. I get the impression that most of them never finished any kind of school. They are, bluntly speaking, criminals, not rocket (or roquette) scientists. So I would guess that the procedures they follow have to be so simple that any idiot can do it.

So where do these plants come from? Seed? Clone? Secret greenhouses cranking out popular strains?

Click to expand...

Most farm hands and growers on legal farms are not UC Ag science grads either...growing mediocre cannabis isnt rocket science, you just need to feed properly and keep a plant alive for a few months.

5000 clones is ~100 trays of 50....those 10 people would only have to make 10 trays each. Not impossible to do.

"5000 clones is ~100 trays of 50....those 10 people would only have to make 10 trays each. Not impossible to do."

In terms of time and labor, it seems manageable, but 10 trays take up a lot of space. I'm living in a fairly spacious residence now with a big back yard and even for me, 10 trays of cuttings would leave a big footprint. Before, I was living in one-bedroom apartments for about 8 years and 10 trays of cuttings would have been too much to handle with two cats and another person living with me.

So I guess if you have access to a farm or similar setting, with maybe a barn and a greenhouse or two, you could start a bunch of clones out of sight of your nosy neighbors... but if you've got 10 human beings working as a "team," that's a lot of loose lips, potentially, lots of potential for one "team member" to decide they're not getting enough paid enough or that they dislike someone they have to work with... Inevitably someone would blab to a "friend" who would pass the info on to either an undercover cop or just some criminal scumbag who would decide to rip you off. At least that's what I would worry about... But obviously the black market operators have been making their business models work for decades, so they must have safeguards and procedures they can rely on.

ltecato said:

"5000 clones is ~100 trays of 50....those 10 people would only have to make 10 trays each. Not impossible to do."

In terms of time and labor, it seems manageable, but 10 trays take up a lot of space. I'm living in a fairly spacious residence now with a big back yard and even for me, 10 trays of cuttings would leave a big footprint. Before, I was living in one-bedroom apartments for about 8 years and 10 trays of cuttings would have been too much to handle with two cats and another person living with me.

Click to expand...

A five shelf wire rack from home depot can hold 20 trays and you could easily fit 5 of these in a normal sized room. There are also lots of clone vendors that sell by the tray and they dont do anything but produce clones for big gardens.

waterproof808 said:

A five shelf wire rack from home depot can hold 20 trays and you could easily fit 5 of these in a normal sized room. There are also lots of clone vendors that sell by the tray and they dont do anything but produce clones for big gardens.

Click to expand...

This, with some low profile lighting you could probably get away with like a foot of space between each rack.

If theyre growing in the ground theyre probably starting in rooting trays or similar setup. This is a 72 plug tray and its not very big. You can just line them up for days and they arent difficult to make. Cut, dip, stick in rooter.



Some random pics i found

ltecato said:

but if you've got 10 human beings working as a "team," that's a lot of loose lips,

Click to expand...

Lol we’re reading about it because it was busted!

I prefer the term 'undocumented' growers

How about 91,000 plants?
https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/06/after_the_bust_huge_pot_planatation_lies_abandoned_in_wallowa_county_but_still_an_environmental_head.html

Same place legal growers do....
Not that long ago it was bulk fem seed orders from Holland if they did not CS their own over the winter..

5100 plants sounds like an impossible amount. But if equally divided by 10 people, I think that's certainly doable as a full-time project.

fragileassassin said:

On an operation that size they likely have their own seed farm somewhere.
Its a criminal organization. Quality control usually isnt a huge concern.

Click to expand...

Seed chuckers

Starting 5000 plants isn't that tough. Planting that many isn't that tough. Putting that many in would be tough if digging holes. Tractor with bush hog and 3pt tiller and fertilize speader cuts down on a lot of prep work. But it's a daylight to dark job for a few when its time to pull males and top. Lol

Clones

clones. some shops in my city sell 2000 site cloners and in my country as of the 17th we can only grow 4 plants for recreation

ltecato said:

"10 suspected of growing 5,000-plus marijuana plants in California's Lake County"

https://www.northbaybusinessjournal.com/northbay/lakecounty/8854151-181/california-lake-county-cannabis-marijuana-arrest?artslide=14&slide=GAL

This question has haunted me ever since I started growing my own from bag seed in the 1980s: how on earth do illegal growers get reliable seeds? If they are just using their own random seeds from pollinated plants, how do they keep from selling crappy flowers that are likely to be mixed in with the "good" buds?

My general observation is, if you sprout 10 random bag seeds, you'll get approximately 50 percent male, 50 percent female. So you'll have five female plants. After harvest, you can test the flowers and most likely you'll find maybe one plant that is absolutely the "queen" and produces flowers that are a lot more desirable than what you get off at least three of the four remaining female plants. There will also be at least one female that is pretty darn worthless, though the buds may be just as healthy looking, dank and sticky as the best flowers from the "queen," but they will barely give you the slightest hint of a buzz. So you'll have three females that fall in the spectrum between best and worst. If you're lucky, you may have a second female plant that is a close "runner-up" to the one that won the beauty pageant, maybe it even produces marketable flowers... but at best, that's maybe 40 percent of your females cranking out the good stuff. The remaining 60 percent is going to be either "meh" or "I want my $10 back for that dirt weed you sold me, jerkwad!"

So how does a criminal enterprise nail down the genetics of whatever they are growing from year to year? It's got to be even harder for them because: 1) They are growing thousands of plants at a time. 2) The operation has to be completely invisible from John Law. 3) Don't mean to engage in any kind of stereotyping, but the farm hands in these operations are not, like, UC Davis grad students majoring in agricultural science. I get the impression that most of them never finished any kind of school. They are, bluntly speaking, criminals, not rocket (or roquette) scientists. So I would guess that the procedures they follow have to be so simple that any idiot can do it.

So where do these plants come from? Seed? Clone? Secret greenhouses cranking out popular strains?

Click to expand...

IDK how they get 5000 but in california you can buy 99 at a time with your med card sometimes a whole family will go into harborside and get like 500 at a time that being said clone prices double this year so it's probably not cost effective to do that anymore. I only get like 30 at a time it's like $800 usually hopefully prices go down

Papasmurf99 said:

Clones

Click to expand...

if you make 20 16 site cloners, and start 16 mothers, in 2 to 3 months you can have them all full. then refill them monthly or so. if you stagger it out you can fill five every 4 or 5 days and pull the first 5 cloners worth out. if you use part of your first cop as mothers, you can make twice as many cloners, and fill them easily. the only real limiting factor is space for the cloners. they don't take much light, you can stack them on shelves with just enough room for some t5s on the walls to shine in. you could fit ten shelves with eight cloners each on them in an average bedroom. throw a few t5s or quantum boards in there, and you have a pretty much unlimited supply of clones, 128 per shelf, times ten.....


and most people growing out 5k plants aren't going to be that particular about genetics. they may start with good mothers, but they aren't going to be very picky about their culling process, if it roots, it grows

How I seen it done is to plant only fems, and also to plant regs very early, soon as last frost is gone. Cannabis will show sex at 6 weeks of veg, it is a simple selection process to get rid of males.

Generally the next generation is bred off artificial herms during end of season. Some people have studs they keep till this time.

Clones tend to flower instantly when taken outdoors no serious commercial outdoor is run from cuts, you will find that cuts are done by your higher end greenhouses with light dep facility, or are all taken out during tje planting window which is different everywhere you are, but there is a week in the end of Spring where you can take clones outdoors and they will still veg. Wont ever be as large as seed runs though.

Basically its all preparation that starts from when crops flower. Selection, pollination, taking cuts and getting them into mothers etc. Its an 80 hour work week end of season with everything going down.