When Does Life Begin ...

having babies is selfish...

How is having children selfish? Having to support them for 18 years (or longer), and ensure that they turn into mature, responsible adults.

taking action on any thought is selfish..

the essence of selfishness is reacting to any thought or bodily sensation..

Making a baby is more selfish than killing another man... and having a baby allows one to realize this truth....

can you leave the planet better than when you arrived?

is this possible ?

ViRedd said:

An abortion debate: When does life begin ...

Your comments please.

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Life begins when you choose it and commit to it through and through. Thus, i is a matter of conscience' I am Pro Choice, because God encourage us through Jesus Christ to live by Faith; because God is Pro Choice with the gift of Free Will onto mankind.

With this being said I have learned over the years through my seeking of a better understanding of Life that is seeking God Righteousness and Kingdom the Light of the Truth" that I once knew, but got lost in the ways and the pressures of the world in which my faith will well compensate for because I am sincere and learning.

What I am saying is that I can appreciate John McCain and Sarah Paulin and the Pop Benedict's position of Pro-Life, but from a Pro Choice perspective. So, though I am Pro-Choice, I would absolutely encourage individuals in this predicament to choose LIFE.

I would say that it can be the government’s responsibility to take the position I am taking in its fullness, thus, providing interventional resources and programs as well as welfare resources and programs to permit the Pro-Life position to be more of a natural conscience decision as oppose to a decision simply coerced by law. I believe if the government educate and resource such individuals fairly that a conscience Pro-Life decision can be achieved moreso that a Pro-Life decision as a result of law within the next five to fifteen years.


So, in summary, I am Pro-Choice, but, I would choose Life.

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There are two sides to this issue.

medicineman said:

Life begins with the first breath. Either that or you are stillborn. Get used to it, abortion is not murder.

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hmmmm apparently the dead baby pictures do not sway you

First things first, Bongulator, I think I'm in love with you, and Stoney you are right as always, but still have me laughing at the truth of what you say !

KAOSOWNER said:

when the heart beats. in my opinion abortion is murder at any stage. On the other hand if a woman is raped she should be allowed to murder the rapist and the unborn bastard, no reason to allow some prick the right to pass his seed.

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The embryonic heart starts beating 22 days after conception. So your answer would be at around 3 weeks after the sex occured?

natrone23 said:

As Vi's favorite comedian Bill Maher said....."Before you can even light that cigarette there is a third person in the room"

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It can take anywhere from a few hours to a few days for the sperm to make the journey. So no you still have plenty of time to smoke.

Smirgen said:

Thats a sad story but the only thing sadder than that would be if none of those children were allowed to live, Children should not have to die simply because their mothers are irresponsible .

Those ten children should be asked when they reach the age of 30 if they wish they had been aborted, I wonder if their answer would be the same as all of ours would be.

By the way if those women have that many children taken away from them they should have their tubes tied since they are immature mentally.

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Getting your tubes tied is not 100% effective. Maybe all men should go get vasectomies instead since they are easier to reverse. Like at age 12 we can just line them up and start clipping.

I am going to invite you to invent an artificial uterus that can be implanted in a mans body. Then you can carry and raise all these unwanted children yourself.

It's sad that your point of view is all children should be born, even if we know the parents are just going to, starve, beat, molest, neglect, abuse, and eventually kill the kids.

ccodiane said:

That's what I've bean saying all along. Woman should have control over their own vaginas. Just not their wombs. If they can't keep them separate, then they shouldn't copulate. Duhhhh.......... (I do it for you; when in Rome......)

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If you are a woman, I have something I'd like to stash in your womb for safe keeping. You don't own your womb, the rest of the country does.

If you are a man, I would like to borrow your nutsack to keep my spare rubber bands around. If women don't own their wombs, then men don't own their nuts.

Garden Knowm said:

you should have been banned.. months ago.. or at least aborted at birth...

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OK that one had me on the ground laughing......

TodayIsAGreenday said:

hmmmm apparently the dead baby pictures do not sway you

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Do the dead baby pictures from the US bombings in Iraq and Afghanistan sway you? Do the pictures of any dead war victims sway you" Apparently people like you believe life is sancrosanct untill your born, then it's fuck you.

medicineman said:

Do the dead baby pictures from the US bombings in Iraq and Afghanistan sway you? Do the pictures of any dead war victims sway you" Apparently people like you believe life is sancrosanct untill your born, then it's fuck you.

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persoanlly i love the fact that people try and make pro choicers change their minds by using pictures of dead babies

if you like dogs... im going to show you pictures of dead dogs... hopefully you wont like dogs anymore after that

Some of us view abortion as "culling the herd". It's simply population management.

ViRedd said:

2. Wolves look at the Caribou as protein. The wolves, if left unchecked, decimate the Caribou herds. Native Alaskans are after the same protein that the wolves are. They are in competition with the wolves for that protein. If you don't cull the wolves, you starve the natives. What it comes down to is simple wildlife management. Hard for city slickers like you and I to understand, I know ... but that's just the way it is.

Vi

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Because no child has EVER been abused or molested or killed in foster care, right?

chuckbane said:

i can definitley agree on that... but instead of "euthanizing a 5 year old" you could just put it in protective care.. a foster family..

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OK Zen, I'll play along.

Lets say you have a 15 year old daughter. Somehow the daughter ends up pregnant (how she got that way is not germane to the issue).

You take your daughter to the doctor and the doctor tells you that your daughter has Lupis and attemting to carry the child to term will KILL her and the baby too. This is a for sure thing 100% chance she will die.

What are you going to do? Are you going to let your daughter get an abortion or are you going to kiss her on the forehead and say

"I love you honey, but not enough to allow an abortion. It's been nice knowing you. Lets head on over the the funeral home and plan your service"

I used this example because a very similar thing happened to a girl I went to HS with many years ago.

ZenMaster said:

All life is precious, Stoney. All life.

You cannot argue that it is better to be unborn than born stoney, no matter what kind of conditions they entered. Stop this argument about the ones already here, thats not the issue being made. The issue is killing unborn children.

What if Hitler had been an abortion? Let me ask you a question, how many potential leaders have been aborted? Maybe someone who would find the cure to cancer was aborted.

I say it is better to be starving, unwanted and mistreated than never to experience anything at all. Not God, quit pinning this on religion.

And Stoney, you can look it up all day long, most abortions are selfish. Have a good day.

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conception

I vote birth. If a baby is stillborn it's time of death is recorded as the time it actually came out of the womb.

We have birthday parties, not Conception parties.

We don't give them legally binding names until they are born.

Everything points to birth.

misshestermoffitt said:

I vote birth. If a baby is stillborn it's time of death is recorded as the time it actually came out of the womb.
We have birthday parties, not Conception parties.
We don't give them legally binding names until they are born.
Everything points to birth.

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If late term "right wing propaganda" pics don't convince you guys, here's some first trimester pics:



Like good little German citizens, you can all stay in denile all you want ... but that doesn't change reality.

Here's a little something on the Messaiah B. Hussien O'Bama:

In the Illinois Senate, Obama Refused to Protect Babies Who Survived Late Term Abortion Attempts Wake Up America

"When Obama was a state senator in Illinois three bills came to the floor that would protect babies that survived late term abortions. These babies that were birthed while the doctor was trying to kill them were left on the operating table alive and untreated until they died. Obama spoke in opposition to the bills. When it was time to vote, this cowardly bastard didn’t even dare to go on record as being opposed to saving these living babies, so he voted present, which is the same as a vote against the bills."


Vi

Yummy, looks like spaghetti and meatballs.

What are your views on invitro fertilization and the practice of "selective reduction"

ViRedd said:

Like good little German citizens, you can all stay in denile all you want ... but that doesn't change reality.



Vi

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Sieg Hail!

Vi I don't know who you are implying are Nazi's, but some of us are NOT willing to blindly follow the government.

Some of us feel that people should have their own minds and make their own choices.

I'm wondering who left the Sheeple pen open anyway?

not me, im just a sheep that follows the heard...


baaahhhhhhh

Hate to tell ya, but most unpluggings of brain-dead people are for convenience only too. The parents or spouse don't want to (or can't) fork out the bucks to keep the machinery running, and the rest of the country (that is, the taxpayer) doesn't want to pay for a bunch of vegetables taking up hospital space and feels that any unplugging should be a family decision.

Same concept. Without sentience, the vegetables give up their rights as sentient beings. The fetuses, never having had sentience in the first place, never had any rights to give up. Once a fetus has a brain, not just the little neural tube that a first-trimester fetus has, then it's probable that it's at least on the verge of sentience and should be given the same respect that we should give to all sentient creatures. (But which, alas, we do not -- elephants are terribly abused, and they have far more feelings than any fetus and do feel pain and suffer emotional trauma. But that's another story.) That probably happens near the end of the second trimester, or in the third. Certainly not in the first, not even close. The bulk of the time a fetus is in the first trimester, it is about the size of a sesame seed. Even at the end of the first trimester, it's still only 3 inches long, has no brain, and weighs one ounce, or around 0.7% of what a baby weighs.