What's Wrong With Science?

Kartel Kriminal

Kartel Kriminal

Active Member
Dear Heisendouche,


Everything you have said to me is riddled with just as many subjective and biased opinions as I do . Get that through your head. You have no way to disprove my beliefs and science will never and can never be the answer to everything. No matter how logical you try to sound, you haven't proven anything I've said wrong. Your good at one thing, which is criticizing anything that opposes your own veiws, scientific beliefs, and psuedo-facts. You should get off your high horse for this reason and this reason only. You are as blindy devoted to science as I am my faith. You have a moot point. You mistake my faith for ignorance and also confuse logic with stubborness.
 
Kartel Kriminal

Kartel Kriminal

Active Member
A systematic way of carefully and thoroughly observing nature with consistent logic does not comfort me, so I chose to believe what does.
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I take it that various sciences and their theories are what you base your beliefs on. Good for you.

Observing nature is not the same as interfering with nature. This is what the majority of the scientific community is good for. Research, development, and expansion for any given economy's needs. Science does increase our quality of life and cognitive capabilities but its still lacking just as much info about the earth and its inhabitants as any given religion.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Kartel Kriminal said:
Dear Heisendouche,
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Really, a personal attack? Interesting preface.

Everything you have said to me is riddled with just as many subjective and biased opinions as I do . Get that through your head. You have no way to disprove my beliefs and science will never and can never be the answer to everything. No matter how logical you try to sound, you haven't proven anything I've said wrong. Your good at one thing, which is criticizing anything that opposes your own veiws, scientific beliefs, and psuedo-facts. You should get off your high horse for this reason and this reason only. You are as blindy devoted to science as I am my faith. You have a moot point. You mistake my faith for ignorance and also confuse logic with stubborness.
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I don't remember science claiming to have the answer to everything. I also don't remember taking the stance of proving what you say wrong, and as the person making the claim owns the burden of proof, it would not be my place to prove your beliefs wrong. You freely admitted that you value optimism over evidence, and that's what I pointed out. Choosing to ignore information for the sake of comfort is, in every way, a definition of ignorance. Now you attempt to label the position you have assigned me as just another opinion, and an inflated one at that. Typical strawman argument really.

Kartel Kriminal said:
I take it that various sciences and their theories are what you base your beliefs on. Good for you.

Observing nature is not the same as interfering with nature. This is what the majority of the scientific community is good for. Research, development, and expansion for any given economy's needs. Science does increase our quality of life and cognitive capabilities but its still lacking just as much info about the earth and its inhabitants as any given religion.
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Okay well at least now we are addressing science. If your position is that society sometimes misuses science for it's own gain, then i'd say you have a valid point. Of course, that is not the fault of science itself, but research does sometimes interfere with nature (such as animal testing) and I personally find that unacceptable. You then go on to point out once again that science lacks answers, as if it's a clear dichotomy between science and religion.
 
beardo

beardo

Well-Known Member
their making bad stuff, scientists and doctors ans science are bad. their making terminators
[youtube]cNZPRsrwumQ[/youtube]
 
Mike Young

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
beardo said:
their making bad stuff, scientists and doctors ans science are bad. their making terminatorsQUOTE]

That is one of the coolest things I've seen. I don't think they intend to use it for bad, but that's where shit like this always ends up... In the wrong hands.

On a more serious note. Kart, I don't think you should be insulting heisenberg for being a rational thinking individual. You choose to accept blind faith, those of us who require a more fulfilling answer choose to go the route of science. Science can't prove there isn't a god, nor do I think it ever could. There are many religious folk out there who are slowly starting to accept what science has to offer, and still maintain their religious beliefs. Personally I'd like to see religion wiped off the face of the planet, but that's just me. You can be spiritual without being a part of a religious group. Muslims believe they're god is the true god. Christians, rastafarians, buddist, etc. Do you discredit those who don't believe as you believe? That in itself is a good enough reason to abolish religion for me.
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mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Mike Young said:
On a more serious note. Kart, I don't think you should be insulting heisenberg for being a rational thinking individual.
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Stick around. That attitude is status quo for most of these threads. Reason, skepticism and science are either considered too rigid or attacked as requiring 'just as much faith' as whatever unfalsifiable claim that is being presented, whether religious, conspiracy or other pseudoscience.

People that live their lives according to some faith feel it is necessary to equate their beliefs with actual rational ones so they create this canard that everyone has faith.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
Stick around. That attitude is status quo for most of these threads. Reason, skepticism and science are either considered too rigid or attacked as requiring 'just as much faith' as whatever unfalsifiable claim that is being presented, whether religious, conspiracy or other pseudoscience.

People that live their lives according to some faith feel it is necessary to equate their beliefs with actual rational ones so they create this canard that everyone has faith.
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I actually wasn't trying to bait anyone with this thread. I think it would be interesting to identify some things that are indeed wrong with science/skepticism. I think that science is sometimes misused by society is actually a bit beside the point, but still something to consider. At risk of invoking Gordan's law, the Nazi medical experiments were very scientific. Plenty of atrocitocies have been committed in the acquisition of knowledge. (think borg!) But I am more interested in identifing some disadvantages to adopting skepticism/science as a philosophy towards life. I am not however willing to accept the same old tired arguments, such as that science is just another religion, or another form of bias.

One thing I can identify, trivial as it may be, is that skepticism can be damn annoying to those who aren't interested in it. My friends an family get fed up with what they see as cynicism, or being a know-it-all. For example, when my cousin makes the decision that her child shouldn't get vaccines, I've found that she really isn't interested in my comments about vaccines being safe. When my uncle and his wife buy ghost hunting equipment, they don't care to hear from me that it's a waste of money. And of course my mother gets pretty sad when I remind her that I don't believe in God and think those who do are in error. Sometimes being a rational thinker can make you feel alien to those who are suppose to be your peers.


Amy Fowler: Have you considered improving your socialization skills, thus allowing you to communicate more effectively with other people?
Sheldon Cooper: Isn’t that their burden? I’m the one with something interesting to say.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Science is merely a methodology, a tool. Any tool can be misused. Plenty of people have had heads bashed in by hammers. Does that mean there's something wrong with hammers?

IMHO, there is nothing wrong with the science per se, it is people we always have to worry about. Not all are bad either, there is always the law of unintended consequences. Learning about the nature of the atom necessarily gave rise to the technology of nuclear weapons. The choice to build them however was entirely decided by the actions of people.
 
sso

sso

Well-Known Member
humankind is barely out of its diapers. if there were a creator, then science doesnt begin to come close to understanding such a thing, so the matter is moot.
science might later explain the "super"natural but is in fact barely begun explaining the natural, most theories are just that, theories, advanced guesswork.
religion is both a moral compass (though often misguided, but its created by infants)
and a pacifier and as such, rather useful.
some aspects to religion are certainly genius, but that does not mean that they are necessarily divine, much of religion makes mushrooms come to mind, which does not necessarily mean that it isnt divine because of that, too much about religion is obviously sham, so much that it brings everything into question, except that which makes sense, the genius parts.
the rest might as well be put aside, till either proved crap or just not fully understood, but its a comfort to some, so what the hey, they are usually simple enough to easily keep away from my door, with their pamphlets.
but plenty of humans have shed their diapers and dont really need that kinda stuff, at least not to the same extent.
in regular life, whatever people think it is, creator, everything that is, a person, god is about as relevant as mickey mouse, truly existing, as of now, as a concept, figure of dreams and visions. (both things we cant really explain, as of yet, even that, so arguing about whos right or wrong in this is rather funny, theories and thousand year old books (heavily edited, translated many times(usually quite ineptly) possibly derived from mushroom eating desertdwellers,being our only "proofs"
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
Science is merely a methodology, a tool. Any tool can be misused. Plenty of people have had heads bashed in by hammers. Does that mean there's something wrong with hammers?

IMHO, there is nothing wrong with the science per se, it is people we always have to worry about. Not all are bad either, there is always the law of unintended consequences. Learning about the nature of the atom necessarily gave rise to the technology of nuclear weapons. The choice to build them however was entirely decided by the actions of people.
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Misuse of science is a bit of a red herring, but I think its worth noting if for no other reason as to not repeat history. It would not be a reason to ban hammers, but it would be a reason to be careful with them. But as you point out, it has nothing to do with the methodology.
 
T

TokeSmoker420

Active Member
religion is useless, gives you nothing but false hope. everything in existence, revolves around mathematical law, and science. time itself is nothing more then a geometric design. Science and Math are more important then religion when you look out into existence, not just Earth, but into the "heavens" aswell.

hell I agree with stuff religion says, better yourself as a person, living a pure life, thats all good stuff. but we have to draw a line somewhere, religion is suppose to help us live our lives as good people, yet how many wars do we fight over religion? how many wars do we fight in the name of Science and Math?

There is a Spiritual side to life, but no religion thoroughly covers the truth about "God", Buddhism is in the ball-park though. Open-Minded people will find the truth. To me it seems like we are killing eachother over a bunch of fairy-tales, religion text is mostly fairy-tale stories, with truths hidden in text, you need to read contexually to see the message given, but even then, you need a wide background knowledge about the truth, before religious texts give you any insight.

for instance

Isaiah 9:2
The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.


how many of you knows what this truley means?
 
M

MinDimension

Member
TokeSmoker420 said:
religion is useless, gives you nothing but false hope. everything in existence, revolves around mathematical law, and science. time itself is nothing more then a geometric design. Science and Math are more important then religion when you look out into existence, not just Earth, but into the "heavens" aswell.

hell I agree with stuff religion says, better yourself as a person, living a pure life, thats all good stuff. but we have to draw a line somewhere, religion is suppose to help us live our lives as good people, yet how many wars do we fight over religion? how many wars do we fight in the name of Science and Math?

There is a Spiritual side to life, but no religion thoroughly covers the truth about "God", Buddhism is in the ball-park though. Open-Minded people will find the truth. To me it seems like we are killing eachother over a bunch of fairy-tales, religion text is mostly fairy-tale stories, with truths hidden in text, you need to read contexually to see the message given, but even then, you need a wide background knowledge about the truth, before religious texts give you any insight.

for instance

Isaiah 9:2
The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.


how many of you knows what this truley means?
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I would be very interested to hear your opinion about buddhism if you dont mind me asking?
 
ginjawarrior

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
TokeSmoker420 said:
religion is useless, gives you nothing but false hope. everything in existence, revolves around mathematical law, and science. time itself is nothing more then a geometric design. Science and Math are more important then religion when you look out into existence, not just Earth, but into the "heavens" aswell.

hell I agree with stuff religion says, better yourself as a person, living a pure life, thats all good stuff. but we have to draw a line somewhere, religion is suppose to help us live our lives as good people, yet how many wars do we fight over religion? how many wars do we fight in the name of Science and Math?

There is a Spiritual side to life, but no religion thoroughly covers the truth about "God", Buddhism is in the ball-park though. Open-Minded people will find the truth. To me it seems like we are killing eachother over a bunch of fairy-tales, religion text is mostly fairy-tale stories, with truths hidden in text, you need to read contexually to see the message given, but even then, you need a wide background knowledge about the truth, before religious texts give you any insight.

for instance

Isaiah 9:2
The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.


how many of you knows what this truley means?
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that you've bought hook line and sinker into the newage bullcrap??

lol its bad enough when religions cherry pick parts out of their own books to make up their "reality" but when you decide to pick tiny quotes out of all the religous texts sentances that give you "special knowledge" well.........
 
T

TokeSmoker420

Active Member
MinDimension said:
I would be very interested to hear your opinion about buddhism if you dont mind me asking?
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I agree with them on many aspects of their religion, I would consider myself "Spiritual" rather then belonging to any religious group.

Buddhism speaks alot of truth. The Noble Eightfold path, Cycle of rebirth, Karma, I can keep going.

I love how their religion's purpose is to reach "Nirvana" complete enlightenment, to escape what they see as the cycle of suffering and rebirth. they want to become connected to the "source", "God".

It is a "Spiritual" Religion.
 
SmokeyMcSmokester

SmokeyMcSmokester

Well-Known Member
why does religion always seem to forget to dinosaurs?? everytime i hear some nut talking about "god created this, and god created that in his image..." i swear i die a lil more inside.. was god a fucking dinosaur??? cus those bastards were here first! maybe god created man as food for the dinosaurs and we got it all wrong...

religion is the oldest for of governemnt created to control an illiterate population...guess what?? we can read now bitches!!

im gonna smoke some more fake shit..
 
Balzac89

Balzac89

Undercover Mod
Spirituality is the neo-religion. Wtf is spirituality anyways, I always ask people and they're like I think there is a higher being man but idk what. What kind of answer is that?
 
beardo

beardo

Well-Known Member
SmokeyMcSmokester said:
why does religion always seem to forget to dinosaurs?? everytime i hear some nut talking about "god created this, and god created that in his image..." i swear i die a lil more inside.. was god a fucking dinosaur??? cus those bastards were here first! maybe god created man as food for the dinosaurs and we got it all wrong...

religion is the oldest for of governemnt created to control an illiterate population...guess what?? we can read now bitches!!

im gonna smoke some more fake shit..
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God created dinasaurs , and some of the 'gods' were aliens the aliens were into pyraimids thats why they had people build them, aliens were running egypt and india and central america and south america
 
T

TokeSmoker420

Active Member
Balzac89 said:
Spirituality is the neo-religion. Wtf is spirituality anyways, I always ask people and they're like I think there is a higher being man but idk what. What kind of answer is that?
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It is very complicated to define Spirituality. To me its about better yourself as a person, connecting with your "Higher Self", your "Eternal Body", "Soul", freeing yourself of the confines of society and major religions, its about awakening your mind and soul to the "Source", the higher power. Its about awakening from our primitive mindset, about realizing the duality of life, the physical and intangible. Its about realizing the very important universal Law Of One. Its about many small things, that tie into one big picture. Spirituality is a journey, not a religion. It is a viewpoint, that we are not Humans having a Spiritual Experience, but rather, we are Spiritual Beings having a Human Experience. It is about reaching Enlightenment. Its about knowledge, living in purity, developing your conciousness and vibrational frequencies, and seeking truth. Its about experiencing and observing, It is all about reaching the "Source", "God". Or you can call it "Heaven" like the bible.
 
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