What will happen when dispensaries start to open up?

bonsai123

bonsai123

Member
Hi everyone,

I would like to start a discussion about what we as the People need to start doing to turn the law into our favor so we can grow from here on out.

I believe the 25 mile rule is unconstitutional. Even an initiative voted on by the People has to be constitutional. How can we change this unconstitutional part of this law. What needs to be done so our investments in growing stuff doesn't go down the tubes next year when they start assigning us to one certain dispensary. Where they say we have to pay whatever price is being charged by the profiteers. Yes, even non profit companies make a profit. They just funnel it as salary to the CEO and other board members.

Does any one know how grandfathering works in this state? Would the first year growers be grandfathered in to grow from here on out? Or do we lose our investment in grow equipment and have to pay whatever is being asked?

Please post your comments and let's start to discuss what can be done.

Thanks.
 
BeaverHuntr

BeaverHuntr

Well-Known Member
bonsai123 said:
Hi everyone,

I would like to start a discussion about what we as the People need to start doing to turn the law into our favor so we can grow from here on out.

I believe the 25 mile rule is unconstitutional. Even an initiative voted on by the People has to be constitutional. How can we change this unconstitutional part of this law. What needs to be done so our investments in growing stuff doesn't go down the tubes next year when they start assigning us to one certain dispensary. Where they say we have to pay whatever price is being charged by the profiteers. Yes, even non profit companies make a profit. They just funnel it as salary to the CEO and other board members.

Does any one know how grandfathering works in this state? Would the first year growers be grandfathered in to grow from here on out? Or do we lose our investment in grow equipment and have to pay whatever is being asked?

Please post your comments and let's start to discuss what can be done.

Thanks.
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knowing this state everyone will probably lose their investment. Just have to get enough voters to have the 25 mile rule over turned.
 
bonsai123

bonsai123

Member
So are there any legal beagals out there? I would think that the legislature can handle any unconstitutional issues. Like the courts can strike down parts of law or in this case an initiative as unconstitutional. So can't the legislature. We need to as a group maybe start petitioning our legislature to change parts of this initiative as unconstitutional. The 2.5 oz limit, the 25 mile rule, and I would believe the not for profit selling between patient and dispensary or patient and caregiver are all unconstitutional. They infringe on our inalienable rights. Even the People can't vote your inalienable rights away. This is a Republic not a democracy (where 51% say what the other 49% can do or not do). We all share as sovereign individuals the same inalienable rights to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
 
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davoswavos

Active Member
Yes the 25 mi rule is a joke I like the idea of having a dispensary there when I need it but if I can't grow my own and have to spend top dollar for meds I couldn't even afford what I would need and I know for a fact I'm not alone on this. It seems like they just want us to be bar coded lab rats. that 25 mi rule would almost eliminate home cultivation which anyone with a map can see. I'm all for getting these laws FIXED because they are messed up I hope some law guru's chime in on this.
 
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irieie

Well-Known Member
the way i see it is there are a few options

we can try and change the 25 mile rule by petitioning our legislature and hoping they hear our petition and change the rule
the other way to change thee rule would be another ballot initiative. this could work but would take a lot of time and effort and i am not sure if it could be done in time to get it on the ballot in 2012.

the other route is for dispensaries not to open. again in this instance there are a few ways this will happen:
the fed government rules that the approval and creation of licenses for dispensaries by state employees is a violation of federal law and state employees which approve these licenses are subject to criminal prosecution. this is highly unlikely as the DOJ has come out with a memo chiding az gov and att gen for this bullshit suit (not a direct quote). also other states have dispensary systems and the feds leave them be, so there is no real precedent for this type of ruling.

the other way which dispensaries will not be able to open is through zoning. one of the amendments to the statues state the following:
36-2806.01. Dispensary locations

(Caution: 1998 Prop. 105 applies)

Cities, towns and counties may enact reasonable zoning regulations that limit the use of land for registered nonprofit medical marijuana dispensaries to specified areas in the manner provided in title 9, chapter 4, article 6.1, and title 11, chapter 6, article 2.


this essentially gives cities towns and counties the ability to bar dispensaries from opening up in their jurisdiction by not providing any properly zoned land for cultivation or operation and distribution as distribution of marijuana (medical or not) is still in violation of federal law. in fact one of the supervisors (person in charge of zoning) for Maricopa county (yes the whole county) has already come out stating that he will use this amendments in such a way.

personally i see no need for dispensaries ever. and while the state and medical marijuana speculators argue in court over who can be in charge of patients and caregivers, there is a grass roots community of patients and caregivers emerging and growing where medicine is being exchanged in a manner which is already protected under the AMMA guidelines.
 
bonsai123

bonsai123

Member
irieie said:
personally i see no need for dispensaries ever. and while the state and medical marijuana speculators argue in court over who can be in charge of patients and caregivers, there is a grass roots community of patients and caregivers emerging and growing where medicine is being exchanged in a manner which is already protected under the AMMA guidelines.
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That is a neat idea. No dispensaries at all ever. There would have to be some kind of patient to patient to caregivers co-ops. There just needs to be a way an individual could get some medicine who can't or doesn't want to grow their own. No commercial enterprises involved at all. Non profit or not. Can you imagine what that would do to the price and quality?

How do you imagine that medicine can be exchanged under the current guidelines? Can you give a few scenarios?

I know it states that nothing of value can be exchanged. So how will it work when anything and everything has a value. Seems like the use of those words denies the activity. If it said money can not be exchanged then at least barter would work. Cuz money is those federal nothing in reserve notes.

The wording in this initiative you can tell was written by future dispensary owners. This initiative has to be challenged on it constitutionality. We need to get together a legal fund which would help all patients to get things turned around. Maybe come renewal time and some dispensaries are open you petition AMMA for a waiver when they assign you to a dispensary. If enough people get their petitions denied then they would have cause for an action in court.
 
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irieie

Well-Known Member
bonsai123 said:
That is a neat idea. No dispensaries at all ever. There would have to be some kind of patient to patient to caregivers co-ops. There just needs to be a way an individual could get some medicine who can't or doesn't want to grow their own. No commercial enterprises involved at all. Non profit or not. Can you imagine what that would do to the price and quality?

How do you imagine that medicine can be exchanged under the current guidelines? Can you give a few scenarios?

I know it states that nothing of value can be exchanged. So how will it work when anything and everything has a value. Seems like the use of those words denies the activity. If it said money can not be exchanged then at least barter would work. Cuz money is those federal nothing in reserve notes.

The wording in this initiative you can tell was written by future dispensary owners. This initiative has to be challenged on it constitutionality. We need to get together a legal fund which would help all patients to get things turned around. Maybe come renewal time and some dispensaries are open you petition AMMA for a waiver when they assign you to a dispensary. If enough people get their petitions denied then they would have cause for an action in court.
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well there is a lawsuit filed by Tom Horne (state of AZ) agianst a few compassion clubs. we shall see what the ruling is and that will start to set legal precedent about how the laws are interpreted and applied. to clarify the "nothing of value" is written about dispensaries obtaining medicine from patients or care givers. care givers can be compensated from direct to patient transactions which covers the costs incurred in producing the marijuana save for labor expenses. that is one way which medicine is currently obtained. another way is patient to patient, which is kind of tricky because you cannot reimburse a patient for medicine which they cultivated. now there is kind of a current grey area which is donations, the patient to patient transactions could be characterized as a donation of medicine and then an coincidental donation of money. this is how the compassion clubs primarily have been operating. this is their defense as well as the evidence for the prosecution. we shall see how the case is ruled. if this is upheld then compassion clubs will be here to stay and then they can be the middle men for the caregivers and patients. this is not ideal but will not eliminate caregiver and patient cultivation.
if the judge rules in favor of the state then a system of direct contact of caregiver to patient would be the most legitimate way to obtain medicine. picture something like a farmers market.this is kind of like how it is done in oregon.

personally i think the most important thing for quality to remain high and price to remain reasonable is for cultivation rights to remain intact. whether that means changing the 25 mile rule or not allowing dispensaries the end is the same. as long as there are thousands of patients and caregivers producing medicine, there will be a wide variety in the market and that is ideal for the consumer and small producer.
 
plantmagic

plantmagic

Active Member
I don't believe the law allows the growers to be grandfathered in because growing rites are re-evaluated on a yearly basis.

The 25 mile rule can be challenged on the 14 th amendment. Basically the state can not offer protections to certain citizens without offering that protection to others. My cultivation within 25 miles of a dispensory does not impede the rights of others or cause undue risk to my neighbors. We are the only state with this provision in the law and I feel it could not stand up in court.
 
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Position777

Member
Doesn't the following kill dispensarys in Maricopa county? I do not see much discussion about this topic, if I missed something sorry ...

01SEP11
The Maricopa County Board of Supervisors on Wednesday (August 31, 2001) changed county zoning rules to disallow medical-marijuana dispensaries or cultivation sites on county land unless marijuana becomes a federally approved drug.
The county got rid of its zoning definitions for dispensaries and cultivation sites and reclassified them as buildings whose uses must not be in conflict with any federal, state or county law. Marijuana is prohibited under the federal Controlled Substances Act.
The change was prompted by County Attorney Bill Montgomery's advice to the board to opt out of the state's medical-marijuana program for fear of a federal backlash against county employees who carry out the law.
Voters approved Proposition 203, the Arizona MedicalMarijuana Act, last November.
But the medical-marijuana program is on hold pending adjudication of a lawsuit seeking clarification from a federal judge on the law's implications for state and local employees.

 
plantmagic

plantmagic

Active Member
Position777 said:
Doesn't the following kill dispensarys in Maricopa county? I do not see much discussion about this topic, if I missed something sorry ...

01SEP11
The Maricopa County Board of Supervisors on Wednesday (August 31, 2001) changed county zoning rules to disallow medical-marijuana dispensaries or cultivation sites on county land unless marijuana becomes a federally approved drug.
The county got rid of its zoning definitions for dispensaries and cultivation sites and reclassified them as buildings whose uses must not be in conflict with any federal, state or county law. Marijuana is prohibited under the federal Controlled Substances Act.
The change was prompted by County Attorney Bill Montgomery's advice to the board to opt out of the state's medical-marijuana program for fear of a federal backlash against county employees who carry out the law.
Voters approved Proposition 203, the Arizona MedicalMarijuana Act, last November.
But the medical-marijuana program is on hold pending adjudication of a lawsuit seeking clarification from a federal judge on the law's implications for state and local employees.

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This only applies to county islands in maricopa county. These are areas that are not part of an actual city.
 
plantmagic

plantmagic

Active Member
County islands are areas of unincorporated land which is completely surrounded by a city or town. Basically areas that were not included in the city so they are controlled by the county's board instead of the city's. As city's expand they annex more land into their boundaries. Some times there are areas that are left out.
 
vfwvn

vfwvn

Well-Known Member
The whole marijuana distribution system has evolved to where we are at today, now we can cultivate, possess, use, and distribute all legally. How wonderful we've finally arrived. I am totally happy with the way things are right now... we don't need another peep out of the government changing anymore rules. Keep the dispensaries out forever, nothing more than greedy types supporting themselves on patients backs.. This is evolving very well and getting better all the time....
 
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irieie

Well-Known Member
vfwvn said:
The whole marijuana distribution system has evolved to where we are at today, now we can cultivate, possess, use, and distribute all legally. How wonderful we've finally arrived. I am totally happy with the way things are right now... we don't need another peep out of the government changing anymore rules. Keep the dispensaries out forever, nothing more than greedy types supporting themselves on patients backs.. This is evolving very well and getting better all the time....
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i could not agree with this entire statement more strongly, however the faction which put the money up to pass pro 203 did it so they could open dispensaries and make money. they have a lot invested in the dispensaries and they will not go down without a fight. things are good right now but i expect some more changes before the dust settles. a lot of the statute are untested in practice. i will wait until the judges start ruling on all these cases and precedents set before i would say definitively that things are the way they will be. while things are great for patients currently, there is one side which wants to simply monetize the whole program and then the other side wants to shut you down, take away your shit and throw you in a private prison which is owned by campaign contributors and government advisers. its all about the money and neither side will be happy until they get paid. for now i am keeping my head down and following the law to the T. i do not want to be caught in the cross fire.
 
bonsai123

bonsai123

Member
vfwvn said:
The whole marijuana distribution system has evolved to where we are at today, now we can cultivate, possess, use, and distribute all legally. How wonderful we've finally arrived. I am totally happy with the way things are right now... we don't need another peep out of the government changing anymore rules. Keep the dispensaries out forever, nothing more than greedy types supporting themselves on patients backs.. This is evolving very well and getting better all the time....
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I for another like being able to grow. You have more control over your medicine. You develop the synergy with the plant. You can't get that from a dispensary.
 
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