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what to look for in a vac and chamber setup

Discussion in 'Concentrates and Extracts' started by bowlfullofbliss, Feb 7, 2013.

  1.  
    bowlfullofbliss

    bowlfullofbliss Well-Known Member

    I'm new to making bho. I've done a few batches, but managed to screw them up each time, thankfully they were small. With a new harvest coming up in a week or so, I'd like to get ready to do this right. I have to admit that I'm quite overwhelmed by all the equipment for concentrate making and smoking, so I could really use some advice from the pros here.

    First off, is it worth the investment to buy the vac and chamber for making oil/honeycomb? Assuming it is, and taking into account I'm on a budget now (I need to relamp all my lights), can anyone give me a hand picking out some equipment that is affordable and what the job requires.

    I don't know anything about these things, and don't want to buy the wrong stuff. This is for me and several people I grow mmj for, one of whom has cancer and really loves this kind of stuff.

    I'm trying to search though here to find info on questions like after blasting, do I need to heat the oil before it goes into the chamber each time, how thin do you spread it out on the parchment paper, this kind of stuff. There is so much chatter in these threads its hard to pull info sometimes. Any advice is super appreaciated.

    thanks!

    -bliss
  2.  
    vacpurge

    vacpurge New Member

    not sure about the tube.. im not sure if I would like the glass ones. I love my honey bee extractor. it works great, cheap too and safe (35$): http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Origina...643?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2322e068fb


    and this is my vac set up that I just ordered. the desiccator is bad ass, dont think it gets much better than that for that price range. and I cheaped out on the pump. well see if I regret that in a few months I guess. it costs 250$ to vac purge oil, and thats with a pretty nice set up IMO... im sure you can go much much cheaper like a hand pump and a old jam jar lol... id imagine getting shattered glass shards in your liquid BHO wouldnt be fun though. and im sure you can spend 1000$ if you want, hell even 10,000$ if you want or 50,000$. its ridiculous. just for an extra 5% potency and 1% reduction in butane lol.

    desiccator (120$): http://www.ebay.com/itm/190782290423?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649... if you get this. it makes life easy. an easy life is worth tons of money. this is only 120$.... its VERY easy to apply heat in this desiccator (same as the SS dish from wal mart that I cook the oil off into, you can scrape it, then drip it onto parchment paper, then lay it in that SS desiccator, put that into hot water, pull a vacuum and let it sit. pretty simple I think)

    vacuum pump (110$) : http://www.ebay.com/itm/121035768701?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

    get yourself a stainless steel dish (3$ at walmart) or a pyrex dish (hard to scrape corners... can crack. for 10$ at walmart). pyrex is also hard to cook off because of the weird square shape. the SS dishes work perfect. you can scrape 100% of the oil out, and your butane dish will sit great in another SS dish full of hot water for prime evaporation. while youre at walmart, grap yourself a pair of forceps (7$ in fishing section, get good ones. tough ones) and a 10 pack of straight blades with in the tools isle (6$). grab a case of butane while youre at it, and maybe a few extra lighters, theyre handy to have around for this.

    pretty much looks like this when youre scraping, works awesome... then just heat the back of the blade with 1-2 second flashes of the lighter, with 2-3 seconds between, maybe 2 or 3 times and all that oil drips off onto where ever you want it.... onto a piece of glass, tin foil, parchment paper (freezer to get it off), into a vial, or small drops right into the bowl if youre a pro.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    20 grams of oil in the dish, then on the paper. I didnt even lose .05 grams in this process. its very efficient. can be very messy though if youre clumsy and fuck up!!! weve all done it.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    after spraying. stick this bad boy onto the same sized dish, or larger, full of hot water, outside in the wind if possible, and let er buck!!

    [​IMG]
  3.  
    Guzias1

    Guzias1 Well-Known Member

    i want that desiccator vacpurge, dayumm... im getting over my ghetto rigs..
  4.  
    Guzias1

    Guzias1 Well-Known Member


    5% potency increase my ass.. my cheap ass vac and jam jar been giving me pretty amazing potency IMO.. now recycling solvents is a different story..

    parts list for oil.wax: (followed by my price)

    trim - free
    tube - $80
    hose clamp - free
    coffee filters -$3
    5x + refineed butane - $2.70 a can
    pyrex - free
    parchment paper - $4
    controlled heating pad - free
    vacuum - $160
    desiccator - free
    thermometer - $40

    total: $290.. adding 2.70 per can of butane

    i think thats every single part necessary..

    thats the recommended parts for ANYONE really wanting to beef up there oil game..

    hand vacuum pumps are shit and worthless, unless you like working out.. any of these 3cfm + pumps should do you fine.. a name brand one might be worth it for the long run..

    .. I absolutely loveeeee what my setup produces.. a new desiccator sounds like a worthy investment.. i feel thats where i am lacking.. but then again, im really good at controlling the heat in my mason jars.. not sure how good i could control the heat i na huge pot.. i have a feeling it would be much easier.. but then i have a 3cfm pump, i huge pot take daysss to vac up, hahahaaa

    Attached Files:

  5.  
    bowlfullofbliss

    bowlfullofbliss Well-Known Member

    It looks like people are buying the 1/3 hp vacs, from this and other posts. I was looking at the 1/4 hp ones, but I guess you always get what you pay for.

    After an initial blasting and purging, how long are you keeping the warmed bho in the chamber under vaccuum pressure for each purge? Is this something you do once for a long period, or do you take it out, reheat it, and do multiple purgings to get it cleaned out of the butane?
  6.  
    Guzias1

    Guzias1 Well-Known Member

    from my experience, nothing has ever been the same.. each time i get trim, its from a new supplier, each time i have to make bho, its a new process. there is not one setting.. there aree many multiple vacuum occurrences, along with devac.. I FUCKEN HATE IT SOMETIMES.. BUT, I OVERALL LOVE IT :]
    Sirdabsalot462 likes this.
  7.  
    Guzias1

    Guzias1 Well-Known Member

    1/3 HP sounds better..
    if you start off with a good pump, you probably wont have to upgrade it ever.. also, i really feel a proper desiccator is worth the $ for not having to put up with bs of a home made one.. ive pulled so much oil in a small chamber, bigger = badder :p i hope to get a new chamber next payday..

    material input is a huge factor for your process... from my experience, the fresher, and better the material, the easier the process... old stuff always is a pain in the ass for me..
  8.  
    Fadedawg

    Fadedawg Well-Known Member

    You will need both vacuum and heat for what you propose. We use a glass labratory dessicator with a Corning Scholar 170 hotplate inside, but you can do the same thing with a stainless steel vacuum pot used for degassing epoxy castings, which you can set on a hot plate.

    I would suggest making your own from a pressure cooker or heavy crock pot, and just make a acrylic lid for it, so you can watch. Tap plastics can supply the acrylic sheet and Paramount Supply, or Gasket Specialties can make a custom gasket for you if you don't wish to cut one yourself from sheet.

    We use both a single stage CPS VP6S 6.2 cfm vacuum pump and a Robinair 15500 5 cfm two stage vacuum pump, typically used for air conditioning evacuation. Both have worked well for the purpose, but everyone seems to grab the 6.2 cfm pump first, because it pulls low enough to get the job done and is faster than the smaller two stage.

    You will need a full port isolation valve between the pump and chamber and a second bleed valve to atmosphere will speed backfilling up once you are finished purging.

    You also need a vacuum gauge capable of -30" Hg (-29.92"), preferably in 1" increments. Because we have them we use compound gauges, which show both pressure and vacuum, but they are not required for this application. We like Ashcroft gauges http://www.ashcroft-usa.com/?gclid=CMvvju_-sLUCFWlxQgod1jEAfw, as well as the ones we get from RSD refrigeration supply house, which have finer graduations.
    bowlfullofbliss likes this.
  9.  
    Guzias1

    Guzias1 Well-Known Member

    spot on.. you can explain things very well fadedawg
  10.  
    yeti5508

    yeti5508 Active Member

    http://www.harborfreight.com/mityvac-vacuum-pump-39522.html

    im thinking of using this with a mason jar and some hot water at about 115-120* never thought about the mason jar imploding on itself, has this ever happened before??

    Usually i whip my stuff into a yellow powder and can be touched by hand without a problem but the last 2 times i couldn't get it to powder up, i only got about 7 grams to powder up out of 18gs the rest of it is sticky and runny still

    i cooked it for 18 hours at 140* wtf?!?!?!?!

    So im guessing if i get the vacuum chamber and purge under vaccum for an hour at 25 in vac. and 120* it should lose its stickiness and become powdery or touchable at least correct?
    sound good?

    i have people who will not smoke the gooey stuff so definitely need to figure this out

    not trying to thread jack sorry

  11.  
    Guzias1

    Guzias1 Well-Known Member

    dont waste your money on that pump.. i used it maybe 3 times before i gave up.. this pump is not made for the bho process.. i spent about $50 for it, worst $50 ever spent..

    the hand pump vacuums just dont have the punch.. i think your gooey stuff is ruined.. at 140 for 18 hrs.. i had a recent batch at about 125, should have kept it there, was pretty much at its final wax stage, but i thought it could take a little more heat, bumped it to 135, feel asleep, and woke up to a puddle of oil.. this has happened too many times..

    i have heard that with like 3 days of 150-160 degree heat will absolutely dry it out the product.. im yet to figure out how to dry out the gooey oil... i have stuff thats been sitting out for a couple months, still sticky..

    so i make edibles with my gooey hash, very good use :]

    you are going to be making many many batches of bho.. this P.O.S. pump aint worth it! it takes sooo much work to pump it up by hand, only to get to a useless 25 hg if you are lucky!

    and the mason jar idea is good enough... and extremely cheap. as long as you use a good jar and good lid, and dont bang it around, you should be safe..

    I have a small, medium, and large sized wide-mouth ball mason jars i have been using since day one.. and 1 lid that fits all 3 :p

    and 1 really big cookie jar i made to be my initial muffin maker..

    these are easily available for the beginner..
  12.  
    yeti5508

    yeti5508 Active Member

    so over heating it turns it to goo?

    i was literally about to buy that hand pump tonight but you may have changed my mind
  13.  
    Guzias1

    Guzias1 Well-Known Member

    yup yup.. its a tragedy.. i have a few oz of sticky oil due to over heating.. if anyone out there knows what i am talking about.. Is there some sort of trick to get the sticky oil to a hand workable material at room temperature?
  14.  
    Twitch.

    Twitch. Well-Known Member

    Over heating makes shatter, its when you break like 180F to 200F degrees

    When I quit being lazy in the next few days, when this next bag of trim dries, Ill see if I can put together a tutorial, and give out my
    secrets and I really do mean secrets. I have it to where i can get just about everything to wax even the really dark brown black
    looking stuff.
    This next stuff Ill run in the tutorial is Diesel not nyc diesel or chocolate diesel just Diesel, bad ass little plant stays short you cant make
    it stretch if you tried, unfortunately its a 9 to 10 week strain, but damn its pretty and caked. It will probably be the last time I do a run
    that has them in it, they just take too long and they dont put out like my Romulan that bitch is a slut she puts out like a prom date.

    The wax that comes off the Diesel is out of this world, not as crazy as the Romulan, but very flavorful unfortunately y'all will not be able
    to enjoy that aspect of it. The Romulan is my baby its genetics have been in Tx since the mid 90's. I LOVE my Romulan
    bowlfullofbliss likes this.
  15.  
    bowlfullofbliss

    bowlfullofbliss Well-Known Member

    very helpful info you guys, +rep. I'll be needing some help to pull this off, that video would be great Twitch. Youtube is full of idiots trying to teach people the very wrong way to do this stuff, its hard to sort through the bs sometimes.

    thanks guys, when I'm ready I'll be all over here trying to figure this out, its nice to have helpful people give you a hand.
  16.  
    yeti5508

    yeti5508 Active Member


    ive heated some wax to about 190* and its stil gooey?!?!

    if the oil is sparkling tiny bubbles is that butane or terps?

    all of my stuff is really oily right now, im guessing because i applied to much heat to fast.

    so confusing...
  17.  
    vacpurge

    vacpurge New Member

    you need to make it ridiculously thinly spread out... crazy crazy thin. like 1 gram of oil taking up 1 square foot of space. and apply heat to it.

    ive had it happen in my SS dishes... just the very very thin residue thats left over and forgotten about till the next batch a week or so later. by then its just a dry powder, when you scrape it its like dust.

    ive also spread it out very very thin, and put a fan on it over night, then stirred it.. fan all day... stir it. fan all night, etc.... for like a week and was able to turn the gooey sticky oil into a "whipped" (I know you guys hate whipping) form of dried BHO.

    if youre buying a proper pump, I wouldnt be cheaping out and using a mason jar set up. that sounds sketchy as fuck with an electric pump hooked up to it. I mean a desiccator is like 50-100$... if ya cant afford that, well... better re evaluate your life lol! give up the cigarettes for a week or dont go out and party this weekend. were obviously all dealing with large amounts of material here... the money for a proper desiccator shouldnt be a problem.
  18.  
    Guzias1

    Guzias1 Well-Known Member


    im a cheapo, and better yet, a DIYer! just because you got your equipment on the way you gotta blast me :p

    im going to build my desiccator! i cant build my pump though.... :p

    stock pot, fat acrylic lid, custom o ring, shut off valve, yeee.
  19.  
    Twitch.

    Twitch. Well-Known Member

    the mason jar will work i have used it, but use caution
    i dont spread mine it will spread itself
    the trick is to slowly add heat my vac chamber sits at like 120 then after i have dont the initial purging for about
    30 mins i step the heat up to 140 and let it set for a couple of hours, then check the temps and the consistency
    of it and i might bump it up to 150 maybe even 160 it all depends on the strain or ill leave the temp at 140
  20.  
    vacpurge

    vacpurge New Member

    Twitch. it wont spread itself out thin enough unless you help it with the way im mentioning. I mean it has to be way under 1mm thick. maybe .1mm or thinner yet... just drag it with a razor blade with significant force and leave a nice, thin trail behind... then play around with that. the trick is surface area!!!! the more surface the area. just a rough guess... but if you can get 1.5-2 gram of oil to cover around 1sq foot, youre doing good.

    guzias: didnt mean to bash ya!! just anyone else that might be reading.. a home built desiccator is fine, as long as its thick glass, or metal, which it probably will be. its just that those mason jars worry me.. maybe we got thinner mason jars in canada or im thinking of a different kind of jar but I sure wouldnt be pulling a 29" vacuum and heating it to 50c all night long with like 1000$ (25g) worth of oil in there. if anyone here has ever seen glassass.com you would understand why you dont want a mason jar imploding.

    I think my pump showed up today... the desiccator should be here when I am back form my mini vacation on monday. I have 100g of nice trim waiting... and im willing to throw in some bud this time too, maybe an oz for a nice little boost of the oil. just for testing the new toys :) ill probably make near 25 grams of oil and play with a few 10g runs or something in the desiccator.

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