We're all fuct now

dbo24242 · Dec 18, 2009

cool so really all you need is the tray, table and fill/drain fittings?

are there certain fittings that are better than others in terms of sealing? I wouldn't want leaks... wouldn't ruin everything but I just wouldn't want any drippin going on with my fittings you know? I would buy the botanicare 3x3 which is prolly $60 CAD and then the fittings $10-$15 then its just whatever I use as a res is the res eh at least 30 gal tote.

hard part is just the table to hold the dang tray up... I suppose I could go to the thrift store and cut a big hole out hahah!

Al B. Fuct · Dec 18, 2009

dbo24242 said:
cool so really all you need is the tray, table and fill/drain fittings?

Those are about the only things you need to get quite specifically from a hydro shop, yeah. I'd check local commercial lighting suppliers to compare prices for your ballast, socket, reflector, etc. Hydro shops often are competitive with other suppliers on lighting; they really make most of their profit on nutes and other consumables.

are there certain fittings that are better than others in terms of sealing?

Not really- all usually come with rubber O-ring seals. However, you DO want to plan to protect the floors in your op (unless they're durable, i.e. tile or concrete).

I wouldn't want leaks... wouldn't ruin everything but I just wouldn't want any drippin going on with my fittings you know? I would buy the botanicare 3x3 which is prolly $60 CAD and then the fittings $10-$15 then its just whatever I use as a res is the res eh at least 30 gal tote.

Trays do eventually crack, spills do happen. Upside is that flood systems have their rez tanks under the trays, so if a tray cracks, it usually just leaks into the tank below. It's smart to cover floors with thick plastic (excess panda film is great) and create a catch basin by putting a square frame of 2x4 or 2x6 timbers under the plastic sheeting.

hard part is just the table to hold the dang tray up... I suppose I could go to the thrift store and cut a big hole out hahah!

Nah, tray stands are easy and cheap. Tray stands are usually made from 1" square aluminum tubing, joined with plastic Qubelok connectors suiting 1" square tube. Aluminum won't corrode and Qubeloks are tough as nails. Get these items at your local hdwe, don't pay hydro shop prices for them if you can avoid it.

Al B. Fuct · Dec 18, 2009

Qubelok details: http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f78/26390d1152786997-4-way-pvc-fittings-qubelok.jpg

dbo24242 · Dec 18, 2009

ah qubelock looks cool I'll check the hardware stores for that sort of thing... I was thinking I might just need to use 1" PVC and I have a plan for that as well I'll be visiting the hardware store tomorrow, as well as the hydro store.

forgot I need a pump too but I think I'll make it under $140 or $150. I've gathered that I will need about a 350gph pump for the 30-40 gal res.

for the fitting do I need just the one fill/drain fitting or should I get the overflow kit so it automatically dumps? donnnooo how often am I going to be watering? I have a 28 slot digital timer so I could do on/off settings with the pump.

don2009 · Dec 18, 2009

WOW! The legend is back I'm new to RIU a few months ago it's addicting and I'm growing hydro flood & drain system I went to the hydroponic section and seen your Thread it's unbelivable then I stared to look at other ppl threads and I swear they try to talk like you be like you grow everything you are def an insperation to this whole website I can't belive I'am actullay saying something to the godfather of RIU I tell my girlfriend about you all my friends and I always refer other RIU members to your thread I read it a few times and plan on reading again you seem madd cool and very intelligent and I hope you countinue to pop in and say whats up once in awhile to us I hope all is well with you and thank you for your info.

Al B. Fuct · Dec 18, 2009

dbo24242 said:
ah qubelock looks cool I'll check the hardware stores for that sort of thing... I was thinking I might just need to use 1" PVC and I have a plan for that as well I'll be visiting the hardware store tomorrow, as well as the hydro store.

I don't think 1" PVC will be strong enough. Do the aluminum tube with Qubeloks.

forgot I need a pump too but I think I'll make it under $140 or $150. I've gathered that I will need about a 350gph pump for the 30-40 gal res.

All your pump has to do is fill the tray to the overflow tube (about 5 mins) and then shut off. Doesn't take much pump to do that! I'm thinking a $20-30 pump. Size is very non-critical in a flood sys. Pays to buy a spare pump to keep on hand, they die in about 12-14 mos.

for the fitting do I need just the one fill/drain fitting or should I get the overflow kit so it automatically dumps?

You need both.

donnnooo how often am I going to be watering? I have a 28 slot digital timer so I could do on/off settings with the pump.

Any digital timer will do for water pumps. It just has to run for about 5 mins, 1x-2x/day.

don2009 said:
WOW! The legend is back I'm new to RIU a few months ago it's addicting and I'm growing hydro flood & drain system I went to the hydroponic section and seen your Thread it's unbelivable then I stared to look at other ppl threads and I swear they try to talk like you be like you grow everything you are def an insperation to this whole website I can't belive I'am actullay saying something to the godfather of RIU I tell my girlfriend about you all my friends and I always refer other RIU members to your thread I read it a few times and plan on reading again you seem madd cool and very intelligent and I hope you countinue to pop in and say whats up once in awhile to us I hope all is well with you and thank you for your info.

heh, I'm glad my info is useful to you, but I'm not terribly legendary. Just another stoned slacker growing dope. Thanks for the compliments.

NewGrowth · Dec 18, 2009

You back at it now Al?

brucetree · Dec 18, 2009

a little bird told me your responsible for this and wants to thank you.

Al B. Fuct · Dec 18, 2009

NewGrowth said:
You back at it now Al?

Just visiting.

brucetree said:
a little bird told me your responsible for this and wants to thank you.

Well done! Keep at it.

Bob Smith · Dec 18, 2009

dbo24242 said:
hard part is just the table to hold the dang tray up... I suppose I could go to the thrift store and cut a big hole out hahah!

You could make a stand out of 2x4s for about $4 - I'm as "un-handy" as they come and I made it - just be careful if you have height issues, I'm struggling at 7'.

Good seeing you Al, had a question or two if you wouldn't mind:

1) Thinking of doing 144 plants in a 4x4 tent for my next grow (shooting for Feb. 1 start of 12/12) - any specific issues that you can think of / have heard of from someone trying to pack them in that tight?

Figure I'll flower at ~2-3" to get them to finish at about 10-12" - it's a 4x4 tent, E&F, sealed (CO2 constant at 1500PPMs), 3.5" (8.75ish cm) square plastic pots filled with hydroton flooded once every two hours with lights on, once in the middle of lights off, 2.5EC, 67F, 5.8 pH, rooted in rapid rooters (organic tree bark, think "trendy jiffy pellets"), aircooled light, etc. Most likely will be doing Super Skunk.

Would prefer running 64, but there's a height restriction in my design setup (long story short, not worth me fixing before I move the equipment to a bigger tent (8x4, if not two, where I will be running 64 per 4x4 tray, perpetually).

Like you, I'm lazy - plus now, I'm kinda looking forward to the challenge of it.

2) One more question, if you wouldn't mind - my RH stays right about 52-53%, even with a dehumidifier running 24/7 in the tent - any idea how detrimental that is to the plant's ability to increase respiration and therefore how unnecessary the CO2 enrichment is to the point that I take it?

Same issue as the height issues before - dehumidifier is "stuck" under the tray, where little no air flows - will be remedied when they move to a larger home for the spring.

3) Last question - ever try rooting directly in an E&F tray? I experimented with it a month or two ago and realized it could be done - got a clone to root in my flower tent @1200PPMs of nute strength in addition to the CO2 and 1K HPS.

Anyways, these are 36 clones I took a few days ago rooting in my top 2x4 tray in my veg tent in some hydroton, nothing more.

They're rooting in the 3.5" (8.75cm) pots that I'm going to try to flower them out in.

View attachment 655167

P.S. - just did a total rebuild of my veg tent and took out an interconnected bubbler (DWC) system (8 five gallon buckets) that I had and put in two separate 2x4 E&F tables stacked on top of each other.

They share a 50 gallon rez, I like it a lot.

doogleef · Dec 19, 2009

Hey Al,

Happy to see you and to know that all is well with you down under.

It's always a pleasure to have you around for as long as your real life allows. I don't spend a whole lot of time on the forums anymore, instead hanging out in the IRC channel spreading the e/f word, but I always make it a point to read your posts. Don is very right in saying that literally thousands of users are dedicated fuctheads and owe you huge debt for saving them LOTS of money on special sauces and other garbage that is not needed for a steady, high yield, perpetual op. I just finished trimming this rounds batch of 0-veg clones and in 2 weeks I'll trim some more. With sticky fingers I salute you, sir! :weed:

You still using the canna a+b?

dbo24242 · Dec 19, 2009

so the .9x.9 flood table and the fittings cost me $120

a little more than expected and the store owner was talking about how cheap the tables had become :weed:

hop over to my grow n check it out

Al B. Fuct · Dec 19, 2009

Bob Smith said:
You could make a stand out of 2x4s for about $4 - I'm as "un-handy" as they come and I made it - just be careful if you have height issues, I'm struggling at 7'.

Yep, about 7' is bare min ceiling ht in a SoG/flood op.

1) Thinking of doing 144 plants in a 4x4 tent for my next grow (shooting for Feb. 1 start of 12/12) - any specific issues that you can think of / have heard of from someone trying to pack them in that tight?

Yep, that's about double the tolerable density. You can get away with 4 per sq ft on the high & outside and that's with some pretty aggressive pruning of any branches that pop up. You'll want a sulfur 'burner' to keep powdery mildew at bay.

Figure I'll flower at ~2-3" to get them to finish at about 10-12" - it's a 4x4 tent,

I think they'll come up a lot taller than that under any decent HPS lighting, and you'll want to run a 1000 over a 4x4 tray. Plan on about 30" from the media tops.

E&F, sealed (CO2 constant at 1500PPMs), 3.5" (8.75ish cm) square plastic pots filled with hydroton flooded once every two hours with lights on, once in the middle of lights off, 2.5EC, 67F, 5.8 pH, rooted in rapid rooters (organic tree bark, think "trendy jiffy pellets"), aircooled light, etc. Most likely will be doing Super Skunk.

Sounds good.

Would prefer running 64, but there's a height restriction in my design setup (long story short, not worth me fixing before I move the equipment to a bigger tent (8x4, if not two, where I will be running 64 per 4x4 tray, perpetually).

I think you'll run into trouble if you run much more than 64. Poor air circ may make powdery mildew a sure thing with double the max density.

2) One more question, if you wouldn't mind - my RH stays right about 52-53%, even with a dehumidifier running 24/7 in the tent - any idea how detrimental that is to the plant's ability to increase respiration and therefore how unnecessary the CO2 enrichment is to the point that I take it?

52-53% is ideal and plants will transpire at max rate.

Same issue as the height issues before - dehumidifier is "stuck" under the tray, where little no air flows - will be remedied when they move to a larger home for the spring.

hmm.. may be worth putting a hole in the side of the tent near the top and sticking the nose of the dehumidifier through. Put the dehumidifier up on a stack of milk crates or sumpin. If it's under the tray, the flow restriction will indeed make it do very little where it needs to. It'll just work real hard on emptying your rez tank if below the tray.

3) Last question - ever try rooting directly in an E&F tray? I experimented with it a month or two ago and realized it could be done - got a clone to root in my flower tent @1200PPMs of nute strength in addition to the CO2 and 1K HPS.

Cannabis will root readily with a number of different techniques. However, without a heat mat and really tight temp control, it'll be less reliable.

Anyways, these are 36 clones I took a few days ago rooting in my top 2x4 tray in my veg tent in some hydroton, nothing more.

They're rooting in the 3.5" (8.75cm) pots that I'm going to try to flower them out in.

I hope it works out for you!

doogleef said:
Hey Al,

Happy to see you and to know that all is well with you down under. It's always a pleasure to have you around for as long as your real life allows.

Thanks same to you.

I don't spend a whole lot of time on the forums anymore, instead hanging out in the IRC channel spreading the e/f word, but I always make it a point to read your posts. Don is very right in saying that literally thousands of users are dedicated fuctheads and owe you huge debt for saving them LOTS of money on special sauces and other garbage that is not needed for a steady, high yield, perpetual op. I just finished trimming this rounds batch of 0-veg clones and in 2 weeks I'll trim some more. With sticky fingers I salute you, sir!

*blush*

Thanks.

You still using the canna a+b?

Yep, does the job.

dbo24242 said:
so the .9x.9 flood table and the fittings cost me $120 a little more than expected and the store owner was talking about how cheap the tables had become

sweet bloody jesus on a motorscooter... if he thinks that's cheap... I shudder to think what he used to ask for the feckin things. I'd shop around in other hydro shops & ck prices if'n I wuz yew.

Fman · Dec 19, 2009

AL, I've been trying your 2 week system for about 18 months. I down sized it for 6 plants every 2 weeks. I dont get a harvest every 2 weeks YET, but what I do get is enough, so I no longer have to go to a corner clinic. See I dont take cuts every 2 weeks and my plants dont seem to grow as fast as yours , but I dont care. I am curious when you harvest do you look for amber trics, or do they get pulled in 8 weeks, no matter what? Thats one reason I dont harvest every 2 weeks, none of the strains are amber in 8 weeks. Most everything I've grown in the last year takes from 9 to 11 weeks to get amber trics. Id appreciate your input

FunInTheSunshine · Dec 19, 2009

AL B, been following your treads for a year and a half now and want to thank you for some good sound advice. Always interesting to follow your threads and the peops who post on them THANX
I have a question for you. I posted a new tread in Grow room design and settup on a plan I have. Would you be so kind as to have a look at it and give me your oppinion. I don't want to ask the same shit here and confuse the whole discussion. Here is a link https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/284916-3-x-parralell-grow-plausable.html#post3549457

Bob Smith · Dec 19, 2009

EDIT: can't figure out how to fix it, so Al's quotes are in a red font.

Yep, that's about double the tolerable density. You can get away with 4 per sq ft on the high & outside and that's with some pretty aggressive pruning of any branches that pop up. You'll want a sulfur 'burner' to keep powdery mildew at bay.

Dammit Al, that's the wrong answer :-?

Appreciate your input, but I still think I may try this fool's errand............you're going to be more then welcome to tell me "I told you so".

I think they'll come up a lot taller than that under any decent HPS lighting, and you'll want to run a 1000 over a 4x4 tray. Plan on about 30" from the media tops.

You think even flowering at 3" tall that they'll get that much larger? If so, another option is to throw my freshly cut clones directly into flower, so the stretch is almost nullified by the lack of roots for the first two weeks (tried that for this grow, and the 10" clones only grew about three or four more inches before "budding").

Sounds good.

Very wasteful and over the top for a 4x4 tent, but it's my personality :roll:

.

I think you'll run into trouble if you run much more than 64. Poor air circ may make powdery mildew a sure thing with double the max density.

I'll keep an eye on it, and may try to get my dehumidifier in a better place to actually work in a reasonable manner.

52-53% is ideal and plants will transpire at max rate.

That's exactly what I wanted to hear :weed:

So any lower recommended humidity during flowering is solely to keep mold (or "mould", as you call it :wink:

) at bay?

hmm.. may be worth putting a hole in the side of the tent near the top and sticking the nose of the dehumidifier through. Put the dehumidifier up on a stack of milk crates or sumpin. If it's under the tray, the flow restriction will indeed make it do very little where it needs to. It'll just work real hard on emptying your rez tank if below the tray.

That's exactly what the bugger does.

I hope it works out for you!

Thanks my friend; as always, it's appreciated.

P.S. - here's some good old-fashioned American idiocy for you - got tired of lugging around 9kg bottles of CO2, so am rigging up a delivery service for a propane generator to deliver CO2 inside the tent from the outside.

And people wonder why the rest of the world thinks we're idiots.............

View attachment 656269 View attachment 656270 View attachment 656271 View attachment 656272 View attachment 656273

Al B. Fuct · Dec 23, 2009

Fman said:
I am curious when you harvest do you look for amber trics, or do they get pulled in 8 weeks, no matter what?

I try to harvest spot on every 2 weeks due to the production-line nature of my op. If I hold up some plants at the end of the line, I can't put more in at the beginning. Stuffs up the entire process.

Bob Smith said:
Dammit Al, that's the wrong answer

Appreciate your input, but I still think I may try this fool's errand............you're going to be more then welcome to tell me "I told you so".

Honestly, I think that with 8per sq ft, there's going to be problems, not just from powdery mildew, but I think your per plant yield and bud density will suffer due to adjacent plants blocking lighty. I think your overall yield will be better if you stick to 4 per sq ft.

You think even flowering at 3" tall that they'll get that much larger?

Yeah, I do.

If so, another option is to throw my freshly cut clones directly into flower, so the stretch is almost nullified by the lack of roots for the first two weeks (tried that for this grow, and the 10" clones only grew about three or four more inches before "budding").

I chuck my clones in to flower as soon as they have a good spray of roots. They'll finish at about 30-35", whether 6" or 9" on cutting.

You can expect plants to shift to flowering mode within 2 weeks and be fully flowering by the end of wk4.

Very wasteful and over the top for a 4x4 tent, but it's my personality .

See, this is a common problem with new and new-ish growers. 'More' is not always better when growing dope, whether considering nute strength, watering frequency, plant density per sq ft, etc. There's a bell curve to this. Quite often, there's not enough, just right and too much. Too much usually reduces quality in addition to lowering yield.

I'll keep an eye on it, and may try to get my dehumidifier in a better place to actually work in a reasonable manner.

Yep, for the dehumidifier to be able to do the job, it has to be treating the airmass occupied by the plants.

52-53% is ideal and plants will transpire at max rate.

That's exactly what I wanted to hear So any lower recommended humidity during flowering is solely to keep mold (or "mould", as you call it ) at bay?

If you go too low, you may encourage spider mites.

P.S. - here's some good old-fashioned American idiocy for you - got tired of lugging around 9kg bottles of CO2, so am rigging up a delivery service for a propane generator to deliver CO2 inside the tent from the outside.

And people wonder why the rest of the world thinks we're idiots.............

A propane powered CO2 gen is all well and good in large grow spaces, where there's a lot of airmass into which to dissipate the heat a combustion CO2 gen makes. In small spaces, the heat from a combustion gen will trigger thermostatically controlled fans rather often, blowing your CO2 out of the op. If you have aircon, it will run a lot more often with a combustion type gen.

Sorry, but especially in small cubic-foot ops, a tank/reg/application computer is preferred. Yes, tank based CO2 systems are more effort, perhaps more costly, but if you have aircon, the lower cost of running a combustion gen may be offset by increased cost of the aircon running more often. This cost may or may not be significant, it's hard to tell, given there's several variables based in how your op behaves. If you rely on thermostatically controlled exhaust fans to keep your temps down, the CO2 is getting blown out and doing you no good at all.

Bob Smith · Dec 23, 2009

Al B. Fuct said:
See, this is a common problem with new and new-ish growers. 'More' is not always better when growing dope, whether considering nute strength, watering frequency, plant density per sq ft, etc. There's a bell curve to this. Quite often, there's not enough, just right and too much. Too much usually reduces quality in addition to lowering yield.

A propane powered CO2 gen is all well and good in large grow spaces, where there's a lot of airmass into which to dissipate the heat a combustion CO2 gen makes. In small spaces, the heat from a combustion gen will trigger thermostatically controlled fans rather often, blowing your CO2 out of the op. If you have aircon, it will run a lot more often with a combustion type gen.

Sorry, but especially in small cubic-foot ops, a tank/reg/application computer is preferred. Yes, tank based CO2 systems are more effort, perhaps more costly, but if you have aircon, the lower cost of running a combustion gen may be offset by increased cost of the aircon running more often. This cost may or may not be significant, it's hard to tell, given there's several variables based in how your op behaves. If you rely on thermostatically controlled exhaust fans to keep your temps down, the CO2 is getting blown out and doing you no good at all.

Al, I started growing about 12 years ago; just took a ten year break until a few months ago - realize this is more of a "fun" type harvest to do (to see if it can be done), but worst case if the crowding is too much, I can just start yanking plants out - no biggie :weed:

And as far as the generator goes, yes, it is overkill for the current tent, but it's more to test out the concept and get it dialed in before upgrading to an 8x8 or 4x8 setup.

FYI, it works like a charm - tent doesn't get over 81.5F, and exhaust fans still never kick on (just the fan cooling my light).

No aircon in there, but it's wintertime here, and ambient garage temps (where the tent is) are ~60F.

Check out my link to my "new setup" to see the generator in action, if you'd like.

Al B. Fuct · Dec 23, 2009

Bob Smith said:
Al, I started growing about 12 years ago; just took a ten year break until a few months ago - realize this is more of a "fun" type harvest to do (to see if it can be done), but worst case if the crowding is too much, I can just start yanking plants out - no biggie

OK. Mind you, I don't think you'll see the net result of crowding until it's too late. You might organise half of the area at 4/sf and half at 8/sf just to see the difference in real time.

And as far as the generator goes, yes, it is overkill for the current tent, but it's more to test out the concept and get it dialed in before upgrading to an 8x8 or 4x8 setup.

I don't think that your results will scale. I think that the combustion gen feeding small area will (come spring/summer in particular) vent so often that it will blow out the CO2. Might get away with it in winter, where the op is losing heat through the tent walls.

FYI, it works like a charm - tent doesn't get over 81.5F, and exhaust fans still never kick on (just the fan cooling my light).

81.5F (27.5C) is a bit too warm. Keep the flowering area between 24-26C. You'll get some mainstem stretch if you get much above 26C. You may see stretchy or 'runny' buds as well.

If the exhaust doesn't trigger excessively in the small tent when set for 26C, cool... but I bet it will.

No aircon in there, but it's wintertime here, and ambient garage temps (where the tent is) are ~60F.

In the case of winter, the flowering area may lose enough heat to the garage airmass to keep temps in check. Come spring- the behaviour may well be different. Keep an eye on it.

Check out my link to my "new setup" to see the generator in action, if you'd like.

Will get a look as I have time. As for today, I've been on the computer waaaaay too long- need to get into my own op & get busy!

Sub Zero · Dec 25, 2009

Damn, a nice guy that knows his stuff and willing to share.
I'm damn glad to find you, and I sure wish you the best.
Looks like I have a hole lot of catching up so I too can become a fucthead... LOL! :joint:

We're all fuct now

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