Weed and panic/ paranoia/ schizophrenia

pamaris · Oct 8, 2008

So yesterday I was over at Erowid reading "difficult experiences" and "bad trips" on cannabis. I am trying to demystify the whole cannabis/ psychosis/ schizophrenia link.

What I want to know is- what are these people smoking? I've had maybe 2 or 3 panic/ paranoia attacks on weed (about 13 years ago btw)- they consisted of me hearing voices saying bad things- like you're evil, you're ugly, you're stupid. Lasted 15-30 minutes, then it wore off. My general life circumstances at the time were that I was depressed most of the time, and my life just wasn't where I wanted it. Also each time it was the first time I had smoked after a hiatus. I've recently started smoking again after 10 years for a medical condition. I am in a completely different situation now- physically, mentally and emotionally.

Anyway, people at Erowid are reporting acid-like trips and full psychotic breakdowns on cannabis. How common is this? I've certainly had some tripped out experiences on weed, but it has never taken me to a completely dissociative state (thank God!)- like LSD has done.

Basically, I am asking very experienced smokers about this. Is it something that happens to everyone every once in awhile? Are these people full of crap? Are these people already mentally ill to begin with?

I think the scientific consensus is that cannabis will trigger schizophrenia in people already genetically predisposed to it- especially adolescent males. Beyond that I can't make heads or tails of it. The reason I am asking is because my husband had a breakdown with psychotic depression about 10 years ago. He's been fine for 8 years. He has been smoking with me though. I don't want to think he's just a time bomb if he smokes.

Any thoughts?

buffalosoulja · Oct 8, 2008

I have been smoking for over 12 years, but i stopped for a year and a half while in the army. I had a few similar experiences while i was on medication for ptsd. I eventually had to ween myself of the meds, cuz the side effects were all f*cked up. I have had anxiety attacks while not high, but not while high. My doc says it is the herb, but i know it,s not cuz i quite for a month and a half to see what would happen. the attacks still happened, so i blazed back up, and get along alot better high. Hope you find out what the deal is. :joint:

pamaris · Oct 8, 2008

buffalosoulja said:
I have been smoking for over 12 years, but i stopped for a year and a half while in the army. I had a few similar experiences while i was on medication for ptsd. I eventually had to ween myself of the meds, cuz the side effects were all f*cked up. I have had anxiety attacks while not high, but not while high. My doc says it is the herb, but i know it,s not cuz i quite for a month and a half to see what would happen. the attacks still happened, so i blazed back up, and get along alot better high. Hope you find out what the deal is.

Thx- it's not really a problem for me; I just had a couple attacks when I was a kid. Mostly I'm just trying to research things for my husband, since he has a history but is "fine" now. He has started smoking and loves it of course but he does not have any stoner experience (unlike me :blsmoke:

)! I don't want him to go off the rails or anything and I'm not sure what to make of the headlines.

sarah22 · Oct 8, 2008

i have some weird experiences when im high. i hear things a lot...either voices that arent there...or music that isnt there...1 time the plant in our kitchen was chirping at me like a bird...hahaha. i do get a lil paranoia too...but thats only really if im outside at night. i see things running thru the grass that arent there...or i think someone is following me...one time i was laying on my bed with my eyes closed and there was a loud noise and a flash of light from outside...and i immediately thought i was being abducted by aliens...lol. but i sat up and thought about it for a minute and laughed...so yea...it happens...i know im prone to being a schizo cuz i have a lot of mental health problems...but its not anything severe...and nothing like that happens when im sober...i think that i have weirder experiences than most people because i take meds for my head...but the meds make everything way more fun

pamaris · Oct 8, 2008

sarah22 said:
i have some weird experiences when im high. i hear things a lot...either voices that arent there...or music that isnt there...1 time the plant in our kitchen was chirping at me like a bird...hahaha. i do get a lil paranoia too...but thats only really if im outside at night. i see things running thru the grass that arent there...or i think someone is following me...one time i was laying on my bed with my eyes closed and there was a loud noise and a flash of light from outside...and i immediately thought i was being abducted by aliens...lol. but i sat up and thought about it for a minute and laughed...so yea...it happens...i know im prone to being a schizo cuz i have a lot of mental health problems...but its not anything severe...and nothing like that happens when im sober...i think that i have weirder experiences than most people because i take meds for my head...but the meds make everything way more fun

My husband was definitely tripping out the other night- he just said 'you're going to have to help me through this one'... then 5 minutes later he said 'whoa was that all in my head?'. I asked what and apparently we had this huge argument (that didn't exist in reality). Yay that's fun- get high and have a fake argument with your wife. Can't win!

That sort of stuff (general tripping out) doesn't really bother me- it's the full on psychotic breakdowns I've read about. Just trying to put them into context. I've had the feeling of a psychotic breakdown while on acid (long time ago)... though it subsided after the comedown. My husband has had a full psychotic breakdown with paranoia and complicated delusions- the doctors put it down to a general bad lifestyle of doing too much ecstasy, drinking too much and not eating or sleeping properly.

It hasn't happened to us while smoking so it's not a pressing issue. I was just considering our medical histories.

I guess we'll just have to play it by ear. I always tell him- clear your mind and deal with your anxieties before you toke up. I won't spark up if there is something gnawing at me that I need to sort out.

IheartKeif · Oct 8, 2008

There is such a thing as controlling your high. If your going to get blown out high I suggest focusing on the positive (happy thoughts). Good or bad that takes practice. You dont want to go into the spirit world focusing on bad things or having a negative slant glass half empty attitude or its probably going to end up being a rough hour or so. For example if your really high and you think your chest hurts a negative state of mind could cause you to think your going to have a heart attack. Not a good place to be. I without question believe that there is a world beyond what we can see and feel. When you take something like high end hydro the insignificant things of this world go out of focus and the things beyond us can feel like they are a lot closer. Combine that with negative thinking and your in for a horrible experience. Obviously this can be avoided by taking reasonable sized doses. Everything in moderation right?

peaceb2usall · Oct 8, 2008

I have experienced auditory hallucinations on good quality blueberry. I also have a history of minor mental issues. What I find is that it all depends on several factors but what it generally does is undercover the weakness or instability below that is not usually visible or noticeable when straight.

So all in all I would say it basically peels back the mental layers and if there is a problem below you will see it rise above and make itself known on a conscious level.

By mental problems I mean minor paranoia etc

pamaris · Oct 8, 2008

IheartKeif said:
There is such a thing as controlling your high. If your going to get blown out high I suggest focusing on the positive (happy thoughts). Good or bad that takes practice. You dont want to go into the spirit world focusing on bad things or having a negative slant glass half empty attitude or its probably going to end up being a rough hour or so. For example if your really high and you think your chest hurts a negative state of mind could cause you to think your going to have a heart attack. Not a good place to be. I without question believe that there is a world beyond what we can see and feel. When you take something like high end hydro the insignificant things of this world go out of focus and the things beyond us can feel like they are a lot closer. Combine that with negative thinking and your in for a horrible experience. Obviously this can be avoided by taking reasonable sized doses. Everything in moderation right?

I'm with you on everything you say. I seem to be able to control my mind state on cannabis. I mostly do it with music. Back in the day I had some overwhelming experiences on acid though! There were moments that I could not control my mind state as easily.

Mostly I was asking these questions because my man is not that experienced with "tripping out" and he also has a history. So far no problems though- in fact it's great; he's never stressed out now.

I do think it's good to be aware of one's state of mind before partaking, and sort through any issues beforehand. The "bad trips" at Erowid are really off the wall though. It just makes me wonder what the deal is.

I also agree that we are entering the spirit world on some level, and that can take us to good places or bad places. Thankfully I am a glass half full person and most of my thoughts are positive.

sarah22 · Oct 8, 2008

i actually find that smoking pot helps prevent my psychotic episodes. i've had one moderate anxiety attack during a time when i was consistently smoking. i was sober when i had the attack...but i was smoking before bed every night. when i go a while without having any weed im way more prone to full blown psychotic episodes. thats why i smoke...to prevent it all...

Stoney McFried · Oct 8, 2008

It's all in how you handle your drugs.Many of the folks on erowid who are posting new experiences are probably drug noobs.I've had minor panic, but I seized control, knowing it was just the particular type of weed I'd chosen.Do folks remember, back in the day, when you tried a new drug, you always had a more experienced person there with you to set you straight?This isn't being done anymore as far as I can tell, and so the new drug users are unable to cope with the intense feelings that can be sometimes experienced.If you absolutely cannot handle drugs, I think you should not do them and ruin it for the rest of the folks who can.(this is a generalization, not aimed at anyone specific in this thread) My solution?Sponser a noob drug user today.That's right...help them instead of fucking with them at parties when they start to freak....tell them what works for you, and what to expect...let's get the stoner community like it used to be,tight nit,with protocols and etiquette that were put there to ensure everyone had a good experience!Remember,your mind is still yours, even when your doing drugs...it's just a matter of realizing how the substance you are taking affects you, and adjusting accordingly.

pamaris said:
So yesterday I was over at Erowid reading "difficult experiences" and "bad trips" on cannabis. I am trying to demystify the whole cannabis/ psychosis/ schizophrenia link.

What I want to know is- what are these people smoking? I've had maybe 2 or 3 panic/ paranoia attacks on weed (about 13 years ago btw)- they consisted of me hearing voices saying bad things- like you're evil, you're ugly, you're stupid. Lasted 15-30 minutes, then it wore off. My general life circumstances at the time were that I was depressed most of the time, and my life just wasn't where I wanted it. Also each time it was the first time I had smoked after a hiatus. I've recently started smoking again after 10 years for a medical condition. I am in a completely different situation now- physically, mentally and emotionally.

Anyway, people at Erowid are reporting acid-like trips and full psychotic breakdowns on cannabis. How common is this? I've certainly had some tripped out experiences on weed, but it has never taken me to a completely dissociative state (thank God!)- like LSD has done.

Basically, I am asking very experienced smokers about this. Is it something that happens to everyone every once in awhile? Are these people full of crap? Are these people already mentally ill to begin with?

I think the scientific consensus is that cannabis will trigger schizophrenia in people already genetically predisposed to it- especially adolescent males. Beyond that I can't make heads or tails of it. The reason I am asking is because my husband had a breakdown with psychotic depression about 10 years ago. He's been fine for 8 years. He has been smoking with me though. I don't want to think he's just a time bomb if he smokes.

Any thoughts?

FootballFirst · Oct 8, 2008

Marijuana has shown no evidence to induce schizophrenia. In fact, many schizophrenics "self medicate" with marijuana as it seems to help sooth schizophrenic symptoms. LSD HAS been shown to induce the first schizophrenic episode in people who are predisposed to it.

pamaris · Oct 9, 2008

sarah22 said:
i actually find that smoking pot helps prevent my psychotic episodes. i've had one moderate anxiety attack during a time when i was consistently smoking. i was sober when i had the attack...but i was smoking before bed every night. when i go a while without having any weed im way more prone to full blown psychotic episodes. thats why i smoke...to prevent it all...

Yeah- interestingly I was reading a study that cannabidiol has strong anti-anxiety and anti-psychotic properties- like as effective as Haldol, but without the side effects. Just google "cannabidiol antipsychotic" for details.

So my theory is that the ultra manic panic weed has high THC but hardly and CBD. I am prone to anxiety and restlessness and wow, the weed really takes care of it (in general, even while not under the influence).

pamaris · Oct 9, 2008

Stoney McFried said:
It's all in how you handle your drugs.Many of the folks on erowid who are posting new experiences are probably drug noobs.I've had minor panic, but I seized control, knowing it was just the particular type of weed I'd chosen.Do folks remember, back in the day, when you tried a new drug, you always had a more experienced person there with you to set you straight?This isn't being done anymore as far as I can tell, and so the new drug users are unable to cope with the intense feelings that can be sometimes experienced.If you absolutely cannot handle drugs, I think you should not do them and ruin it for the rest of the folks who can.(this is a generalization, not aimed at anyone specific in this thread) My solution?Sponser a noob drug user today.That's right...help them instead of fucking with them at parties when they start to freak....tell them what works for you, and what to expect...let's get the stoner community like it used to be,tight nit,with protocols and etiquette that were put there to ensure everyone had a good experience!Remember,your mind is still yours, even when your doing drugs...it's just a matter of realizing how the substance you are taking affects you, and adjusting accordingly.

Lots of good points there! Not everyone is cut out for mind expansion. I think some of us are a little (or a lot) out there to begin with so freaky mind trips don't bother us... in fact they can be quite entertaining.

I think it's really uncool to mess with newbies. It's just wrong... it's against the whole stoner ethos. I think people who do that are probably more likely to have been drinking... also some people just aren't cool anyway.

pamaris · Oct 9, 2008

FootballFirst said:
Marijuana has shown no evidence to induce schizophrenia. In fact, many schizophrenics "self medicate" with marijuana as it seems to help sooth schizophrenic symptoms. LSD HAS been shown to induce the first schizophrenic episode in people who are predisposed to it.

Well, there are a multitude of studies that show a correlation. However, they have not been able to prove causation. The conclusion of the studies is that if someone is genetically predisposed to schizo AND they are a male who is 16 or under AND they smoke heavily, it will bring the schizo to the surface.

Budsworth · Oct 9, 2008

I smoked a fatty and got real scared that I would run out of pot. I ran to my grow room and sighed a relief.

Stoney McFried · Oct 9, 2008

Right...I had an older brother who introduced me to pot, and older friends I used to smoke with.They were always very calm when a situation arose with anyone around, and I try to be as well.If you see someone freaking out, help them, that's what stoners should be about.

pamaris said:
Lots of good points there! Not everyone is cut out for mind expansion. I think some of us are a little (or a lot) out there to begin with so freaky mind trips don't bother us... in fact they can be quite entertaining.

I think it's really uncool to mess with newbies. It's just wrong... it's against the whole stoner ethos. I think people who do that are probably more likely to have been drinking... also some people just aren't cool anyway.

pamaris · Oct 10, 2008

Stoney McFried said:
Right...I had an older brother who introduced me to pot, and older friends I used to smoke with.They were always very calm when a situation arose with anyone around, and I try to be as well.If you see someone freaking out, help them, that's what stoners should be about.

I learned from older people too... older boys, yum... I totally loved it.

Ghost420 · Oct 10, 2008

while i cant relate to you guys having these intense experiences with weed i can tell you the one time this ass cut some sour d with xanex. now at the time i didnt know and i found out the next day. it was a very intence experiance with visuals ect way to much for me. worst of all it was at a party.

ground rules for smoking pot:
1. no parties
2. only smoke wiht people you know trust
3. no more then 5 people at a time.

i still to this day dont know why people smoke at parties. its the worst place for it and will be a bad trip so dont do it. and people that fuck with others highs goto the worst layer of hell bucause that isnt cool.

bradlyallen2 · Oct 10, 2008

Those are some interesting comments. I know that Schizophrenia is due to an abundance of dopamine and the bodies response is downregulation by decreasing dopamine receptor density (as determined by autopsy). Parkinsons disease is the exact opposite. Some studies indicate marijuana affects levels of dopamine. Marijuana is also purported to affect 5HT (Serotonin) levels, generally associated with beneficial effects on mood. Probably the most important thing to consider is that much of this is guesswork, requires lots of research studies of which there are few with marijuana, and individual experiences can vary widely. Occasional use may be ok but some physicians report you should "avoid marijuana like the plague" if you are predisposed to mental illness" (Schizophrenia.com - Marijuana Cannabis and Schizophrenia).

bradlyallen2 · Oct 10, 2008

As an aside I've often wondered if the occurence of negative reactions to marijuana would be less if it were legal and people didn't need to be paranoid about using it...

Weed and panic/ paranoia/ schizophrenia

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