We Must Protect The Interests Of Medical Cannabis After Legalization

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
The cannabis community held tight to a victory in Canada's federal election, when the Liberals stepped out with a majority government. Legalization of cannabis is part of their official platform and now that they hold a majority, it can't come soon enough. Some are still skeptical -- others have promised legalization before Justin Trudeau.

It could mean some big things for everyone. Will dispensaries finally be regulated federally? Will licensed producers be at the forefront of an "inevitable" recreational market? What about home growing?

While I think we will see legalization happen in the next few years, it will happen a lot more conservatively than we expect. We know that cannabis should be removed from the umbrella of criminal justice, but I'm hesitant to say the final model will emerge the way we want it to. The Liberal Party is a little more centre than the party I remember from my youth, but they do portray themselves as somewhat fiscally conservative and socially progressive. It was, after all, the senior Trudeau who advocated for a more activist Canadian government to help solve social and economic issues, and often talked about a more compassionate and equal society.

When we hear of compassion, some remain hopeful that compassion clubs, or dispensaries, will finally be acknowledged under a regulatory scheme. Of course, what is more likely to happen is that licensed producers will be allowed to dispense on-site (a trend of implementing the best parts of the dispensary model into the MMPR while refusing to include existing, long-standing compassion clubs in the regulatory scheme). They would effectively become like compassion clubs, but with proper regulatory oversight.

So long, grassroots activism -- too bad for those who have risked their liberty for 20 years -- but hey, thank you for paving the way.

I don't mean to be cheeky, but the truth about a free market model means licensed producers will be at the front gates, regardless of the drug policy experts who have urged us to consider a variety of models for public health outcomes -- CAMH, for example, advocated for government control over the sale and distribution of cannabis. I know government control over anything feels like a dirty word, but using lessons from other regulated substances is how policy should be informed, created and refined.

When we look at the social ills caused by alcohol, the provincial control model in most of our provinces is known internationally for its harm reduction precisely because it has a hand in restricting access and availability. Cannabis, of course, is not alcohol, but for those who aren't in the know, using the existing regulation of other substances is the best way to transfer understanding of what legalization could look like.

My only hope is that the eventual regulating bodies take a broader look at public health outcomes, and we fight against a purely commercial cannabis market. We should acknowledge Canada's distinct history when it comes to reform, cannabis policy and medical cannabis. This history will have a hand in shaping something different than what we see in places like Colorado or Washington State.

Many drug policy experts have warned against having private entrepreneurs from the MMPR as the loudest voice at the policy table, much like what happened in Colorado, and the difficulty of establishing an independent legalization regime that focuses primarily on public health, going as far to call anything other than an MMPR-type legalization scheme "unlikely". The natural next step would seem to follow the medical model.

This is troubling because research shows that in cases like alcohol and tobacco, these entrepreneurs push for more access, and more availability, shifting focus away from public health outcomes. But at the same time, we should acknowledge their work over the last year following rigorous standards, and producing quality medical grade cannabis. Who the 'experts' are has definitely expanded, and I do not want to discount this work, but rather urge us all to consider a variety of options and use a long history of evidence to make the decision that is right for Canadians.

Further, for legalization to be successful the Liberals need to remember that if they overtax cannabis and don't undercut 'street prices', an underground market will still thrive. We need to think about access and young people, and how this will inform whatever regulation develops. As it currently stands, cannabis is the easiest substance for youth to obtain (easier that tobacco and alcohol). This is no doubt tied to the regulation of tobacco and alcohol, because last time I checked, the black market certainly doesn't I.D.

What about home growing? We've heard Trudeau talk about it as something that should be afforded to Canadians. It makes sense to look to established markets, like Colorado, where the world has not ended, and the state is still standing (I mean, thriving).

But, we can't forget that legalization of cannabis is not compatible with the existing 1961 Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, which, alongside other things, limits cannabis to medical or scientific use. Then again, no one has ever explained to me what the UN would do to stop it, if anything. What is even more exciting is that the UN General Assembly has been planning a review of the drug control system. The United Nations General Assembly Special Session, or UNGASS, is happening April of next year in New York City. You can imagine that cannabis is top of the list for UNGASS 2016.

This is a result of many countries voicing their displeasure with the current international regulation around drug policy. Think of it this way: the last time they met in 1998, the mandate was simply the "total elimination of drugs around the world" -- sounds a bit archaic, no? Many countries around the world seem to think so, but the truth is when we are talking about drug policy reform, the drug control system in the UN is part of that discussion.

Just because the Liberals have won does not mean the work is done, but merely that phase one has been unlocked. While many drug policy experts I've spoken to remain skeptical, we need to continue the work to ensure Trudeau fulfills his promise to Canadians.
 

kDude

Well-Known Member
Protect them? You ignore them, and lie about their safety. Disgusting and transparent.
lol what are you talking about?
that's a big write up to take out just one sentence or paragraph to refute.
without quoting it; i'm baffled at who/what you're talking about; kids?, LP's?, grass routes organizers?, home growers?
 

nobody important 666

Well-Known Member
They need to make getting a license way more easy and allow anybody to get one. I can see zoning issues being implemented but if you got a light and a license anybody should have the right to do as they please (as long as product testing is done). If they going to open a market it should be on a fair and level playing field. That way you can have cheap big business and the niche low volume, high grade. Also you should be able to produce your own but if caught selling without license have huge fines and or prison time. Just like every other product on the market.
 

GrowRock

Well-Known Member
They need to make getting a license way more easy and allow anybody to get one. I can see zoning issues being implemented but if you got a light and a license anybody should have the right to do as they please (as long as product testing is done). If they going to open a market it should be on a fair and level playing field. That way you can have cheap big business and the niche low volume, high grade. Also you should be able to produce your own but if caught selling without license have huge fines and or prison time. Just like every other product on the market.
Not huge fines or prison it should be sold as a vegtable or at the very least a natural health food product. Farmers markets small growers my opinion :weed:
 

nobody important 666

Well-Known Member
Not huge fines or prison it should be sold as a vegtable or at the very least a natural health food product. Farmers markets small growers my opinion :weed:
By calling it or treating as a vegetable it undermines that fact that it is a medicine. Thats like saying we should be allowed to grow coca or kat because they are plants.
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
By calling it or treating as a vegetable it undermines that fact that it is a medicine. Thats like saying we should be allowed to grow coca or kat because they are plants.
I tried to make that point. There are some here who think all plants should be free and you should be able to grow and make your own opiates. A few are convinced legalization is a scam unless there are no restrictions. Extreme,imo. Unlike tomatoes and radishes, MJ has psychotropic and medicinal qualities and like cocoa and opium poppies, it will always be controlled. While the danger of overdose is absent with weed, there is still the will of the public to keep their kids 'safe' and that is one hurdle we won't get past. Also the monetary value stemming from demand separates mj from lettuce. While a world of pot fields and wild west lawlessness with marijuana may seem like a great idea to some at first glance, the reality is there are laws and rules around EVERYTHING we do and for the most part, it works. I am fine with the legal rec system looking like alcohol sales as long as we all get to grow our own or be licensed to compete with the LP's. I don't get the mindset that we should reject legalization unless it is without controls. Lets get legal FIRST and then work on getting the changes you want.
 

kDude

Well-Known Member
I tried to make that point. There are some here who think all plants should be free and you should be able to grow and make your own opiates. A few are convinced legalization is a scam unless there are no restrictions. Extreme,imo. Unlike tomatoes and radishes, MJ has psychotropic and medicinal qualities and like cocoa and opium poppies, it will always be controlled. While the danger of overdose is absent with weed, there is still the will of the public to keep their kids 'safe' and that is one hurdle we won't get past. Also the monetary value stemming from demand separates mj from lettuce. While a world of pot fields and wild west lawlessness with marijuana may seem like a great idea to some at first glance, the reality is there are laws and rules around EVERYTHING we do and for the most part, it works. I am fine with the legal rec system looking like alcohol sales as long as we all get to grow our own or be licensed to compete with the LP's. I don't get the mindset that we should reject legalization unless it is without controls. Lets get legal FIRST and then work on getting the changes you want.
always laugh at this.. yet i can freely grow the casterbean plant (whos seeds contain ricin) *and probably many other highly dangerous plants. *my mom grew salvia, i don't know it's the same salvia though ;-)
bloody hilarious.
-should be like that though *and it pretty-well is; don't mention it.. and if someone grows a poppy or peyote for themselves; who cares. but if they grow mass and start selling it; then step in.

i think that's the thing though; everybody knows what a marijuana plant is/looks like.

and i do think everyone should be able to grow whatever they want -grow it, not distribute it-.. in theory this would completely kill unauthorized sales of anything.. but sadly; we know people would take advantage of this and try to profiteer. -so i know that's not how it's going to go.
*the saddest part of all is; if it never became illegal, we'd not be in this mess.

but if there's no home grows.. yeah i'm pissed. that's not legal to me.
i also don't understand the "accept it now, fix it later" idea.. yeah so all the corrupt arseholes get a good foothold on a monopoly, while we flounder waiting for better laws.. eff that! i'd honestly rather it stay illegal if that's the case. *as nothing changes for those who need it, only changes for those who want to profit off it.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
I tried to make that point. There are some here who think all plants should be free and you should be able to grow and make your own opiates. A few are convinced legalization is a scam unless there are no restrictions. Extreme,imo. Unlike tomatoes and radishes, MJ has psychotropic and medicinal qualities and like cocoa and opium poppies, it will always be controlled. While the danger of overdose is absent with weed, there is still the will of the public to keep their kids 'safe' and that is one hurdle we won't get past. Also the monetary value stemming from demand separates mj from lettuce. While a world of pot fields and wild west lawlessness with marijuana may seem like a great idea to some at first glance, the reality is there are laws and rules around EVERYTHING we do and for the most part, it works. I am fine with the legal rec system looking like alcohol sales as long as we all get to grow our own or be licensed to compete with the LP's. I don't get the mindset that we should reject legalization unless it is without controls. Lets get legal FIRST and then work on getting the changes you want.
You had it clearly explained why it's a horrible idea, had no refutation at all and have the gaul to call me an extremist? Come back when you have an actual argument please. Ad hominems do not look good on you.

The monetary value is directly related to the fact there are insane and stupid rules surrounding the growing of it. It would cost pennies a gram (probably less) if it were treated like a regular plant.

And vegetables are medicine too.

You think this society is working? Really? On what level and for who? Because Canadians are getting screwed horribly at every turn as is the rest of the world - unless you're mega rich and connected. Those guys are doing quite well.

No one here is rejecting legalization either. We have vowed to fight stupid legalization plans though, which you should too.

Hemp used to be the most commonly grown plant in the world. There is no reason why that should not be the case again.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
always laugh at this.. yet i can freely grow the casterbean plant (whos seeds contain ricin) *and probably many other highly dangerous plants. *my mom grew salvia, i don't know it's the same salvia though ;-)
bloody hilarious.
-should be like that though *and it pretty-well is; don't mention it.. and if someone grows a poppy or peyote for themselves; who cares. but if they grow mass and start selling it; then step in.

i think that's the thing though; everybody knows what a marijuana plant is/looks like.

and i do think everyone should be able to grow whatever they want -grow it, not distribute it-.. in theory this would completely kill unauthorized sales of anything.. but sadly; we know people would take advantage of this and try to profiteer. -so i know that's not how it's going to go.
*the saddest part of all is; if it never became illegal, we'd not be in this mess.

but if there's no home grows.. yeah i'm pissed. that's not legal to me.
i also don't understand the "accept it now, fix it later" idea.. yeah so all the corrupt arseholes get a good foothold on a monopoly, while we flounder waiting for better laws.. eff that! i'd honestly rather it stay illegal if that's the case. *as nothing changes for those who need it, only changes for those who want to profit off it.
Agree with some. But I do not understand the slave mentality. "OH GOD SOMEONE NEEDS TO GIVE PERMISSION TO DO SOMETHING OTHERWISE THE WORLD WILL FALL APART OMG!!"

Meanwhile we're on the verge of WW4 and we've had extensive rules regarding many different things for a long ass time... and if WW4 doesn't come the financial system most certainly will collapse on levels previously unseen. Which is why WW4 is definitely coming - because it's an easier sell politically. The system demands constant creation of debt. War is a good justification for that.

Once you folks realize government only exists to take more power and not at all for the benefit of anyone but itself, you will find that you make much more logical decisions about everything.

Who cares if someone sells poppies or mushrooms? Alcohol is worse for you than both.
 

nobody important 666

Well-Known Member
Agree with some. But I do not understand the slave mentality. "OH GOD SOMEONE NEEDS TO GIVE PERMISSION TO DO SOMETHING OTHERWISE THE WORLD WILL FALL APART OMG!!"

Meanwhile we're on the verge of WW4 and we've had extensive rules regarding many different things for a long ass time... and if WW4 doesn't come the financial system most certainly will collapse on levels previously unseen. Which is why WW4 is definitely coming - because it's an easier sell politically. The system demands constant creation of debt. War is a good justification for that.

Once you folks realize government only exists to take more power and not at all for the benefit of anyone but itself, you will find that you make much more logical decisions about everything.

Who cares if someone sells poppies or mushrooms? Alcohol is worse for you than both.
And that folks us why no one in so called power will ever listen to us. No offense but that sounds like a rant rather than a legitimate reason for either side of the debate.
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
You had it clearly explained why it's a horrible idea, had no refutation at all and have the gaul to call me an extremist? Come back when you have an actual argument please. Ad hominems do not look good on you.

The monetary value is directly related to the fact there are insane and stupid rules surrounding the growing of it. It would cost pennies a gram (probably less) if it were treated like a regular plant.

And vegetables are medicine too.

You think this society is working? Really? On what level and for who? Because Canadians are getting screwed horribly at every turn as is the rest of the world - unless you're mega rich and connected. Those guys are doing quite well.

No one here is rejecting legalization either. We have vowed to fight stupid legalization plans though, which you should too.

Hemp used to be the most commonly grown plant in the world. There is no reason why that should not be the case again.
Back off.
I did not call you an extremist. I said I felt some peoples views were extreme... to another poster. Didn't even mention your name.
Just because you explained your viewpoint, I don't have to agree with it just as you don't have to agree with mine.
I do have an actual argument, you just choose to dismiss it because it differs from yours.
I don't share your 'poor victim of global slavery' outlook on government. If this society isn't to your liking, point to one in the world that is. We are about as free here as you are going to get on this planet and still live in a civilized society... the alternative is anarchy.
Which vegetable is a medicine? They are food, healthy, but hardly medicinal.
What exactly are these "stupid legalization plans" you have vowed to fight? I wasn't aware there was a plan yet.
I tried to have a civil discussion but apparently you are only interested in convincing others your way is the only way.
You continue your crusade against the evil government and I'll continue to fight for something realistically achievable.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
And that folks us why no one in so called power will ever listen to us. No offense but that sounds like a rant rather than a legitimate reason for either side of the debate.
Growing plants is so fundamental to existing - and you want to let the government continue to allow us to decide whether we can or we cannot in an effort to cow to what? Some corrupt group of assholes that literally wants to control everything? You guys are way out to lunch. Allowing this precedent to continue means that the government can stop you from growing any plants... oh wait they already do that in cities where god damn if you don't have a lawn but a garden instead.

Anyway, authoritarianism is always awful. Justify it to yourself however you want. All this shit is over soon anyway.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Back off.
I did not call you an extremist. I said I felt some peoples views were extreme... to another poster. Didn't even mention your name.
Just because you explained your viewpoint, I don't have to agree with it just as you don't have to agree with mine.
I do have an actual argument, you just choose to dismiss it because it differs from yours.
I don't share your 'poor victim of global slavery' outlook on government. If this society isn't to your liking, point to one in the world that is. We are about as free here as you are going to get on this planet and still live in a civilized society... the alternative is anarchy.
Which vegetable is a medicine? They are food, healthy, but hardly medicinal.
What exactly are these "stupid legalization plans" you have vowed to fight? I wasn't aware there was a plan yet.
I tried to have a civil discussion but apparently you are only interested in convincing others your way is the only way.
You continue your crusade against the evil government and I'll continue to fight for something realistically achievable.
You fail to understand what an objective point is. Lay out your argument. It's basically 'oh we should cow' versus what's actually right and best for everyone. What do you think is actually right and best for everyone? Stop talking about fucking cowing to some corrupt fucking assholes and make a point then. Freedom is now extremist in your view. Good to know. When you label someones views extreme you calling them an extremist.

Much food is medicine. In fact, we're learning now that our gut flora is instrumental to our health and eating vegetables is vital to keeping it healthy. It is medicine.
 
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