We are all suckers... how they must laugh at us.

medicineman said:

I don't know if the conversation is true or not, (The Video), But I have been getting this sinking feeling that we the people have been had again. This is the man that gave such inspirational speeches, made promises of reconciliation, single payer health care, looking out for the poor, etc. What happened? I really don't know. It's beginning to look more and more like he sold out for that ride in AF1, the big power trip. I had no Idea at the time why any man would want that horrible job, depression looming, two wars, healthcare on the ropes, great division between the parties. I guess he will just pander to the corporations and nothing will really change, the war contractors will still get payed, the children of the poor will still die in foriegn lands for the corporations bottom lines, the healthcare giants will make some minor concessions they can get congress to overturn in the next couple a years. Yup, we've been had again. Just for your info. It wouldn't have been any different under John McCain, well maybe a little. We'd probably be full at war with Iran now also.

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As crazy as it sounds, I have to agree completely with Med. While I do get to claim I didn't vote for either of the two, I find myself disappointed that Obama isn't what he claimed to be during the election. Yes, I knew there would be a great amount of legislation that I wouldn't agree with, but I guess I was really hoping for a leader that would stand by his promises and bring transparency and bipartisanship to our government. I know it's probably childish to even fantasize about such an occurrence actually happening, but that's what makes it all the more disheartening. It's actually so bad, it's foolish to hope for honesty.

The irony is that if he had come to DC and actually fulfilled his campaign promises, he would probably have a majority of the populace behind his health care reform, regardless of whether it is actually good for the country or not. If he had kept the promises of no lobbyists, stripped the ridiculous pork out of the stimulus bill (especially the stuff that no one can argue will create jobs), etc... etc... etc, he wouldn't being having the trouble he is having now. Not a backhanded attack on him because they ALL DO IT.

What is really disturbing is the blatant capitulation of the free press. I don't care if they agree with this administration's policies and ideals or not, I want my journalists to question EVERYTHING. Critical investigation of EVERY claim. I want these guys out there trying to find falsehoods, shady dealings, corruption, on either side. Find the scumbags and expose them. Cripes, it's been so bad for the last year, that I've had to watch FOX almost exclusively to hear ANYTHING critical about the administration and majority members of the Senate and House. Journalism is dead.

Case in point, the video I started this thread with. I didn't see it anywhere on the MMM, nowhere, nada. Didn't see it on Yahoo news or read about it on any of the bigger news websites. Only reason I came across it was it was emailed to me in the Glenn Beck newsletter. Yeah, Yeah, I know. Don't bother, he blasts both sides with a vengeance and I find his arguments more credible than anything I hear from the administration or the Hannity's of the world.

I laugh at you...

MuyLocoNC said:

Small potatoes in my opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1t_x4YglgM

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I agree...

Where's the proof that this "secret deal" even took place? Seems to me it's a whole lot of speculation and no hard evidence.

doobnVA said:

Where's the proof that this "secret deal" even took place? Seems to me it's a whole lot of speculation and no hard evidence.

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Well here ya go...I'll use sources even progressives will read.

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-na-healthcare-pharma4-2009aug04,0,3660985.story

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/policy/06insure.html?_r=1

This is a fairly good article breaking down some of the specifics of the deal. Never seen the website before, but the break down is pretty good.

http://hiddenmysteries.net/geeklog/article.php?story=20090811232400520

MuyLocoNC said:

Well here ya go...I'll use sources even progressives will read.

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-na-healthcare-pharma4-2009aug04,0,3660985.story

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/policy/06insure.html?_r=1

This is a fairly good article breaking down some of the specifics of the deal. Never seen the website before, but the break down is pretty good.

http://hiddenmysteries.net/geeklog/article.php?story=20090811232400520

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Thanks =) so, it's not really a secret deal at all, and it's not written in stone (meaning either party could fail to hold up "their end" of the deal).

/yawn

You'd think this kind of stuff would've stopped surprising people by now. Like one of those articles says, drug companies are filthy stinking rich and they always get what they want. Obama called out the drug companies because he knew that's what people wanted him to do.

Well, it's not secret anymore due to the fact it was exposed and then forced to be commented on. But, it was certainly going to remain secret if a "journalist" from the LA Times (an almost extinct profession) hadn't uncovered the facts of the deal. It's a novel concept but it's one we should demand of our press, find the corruption, investigate the scumbags and expose the lies. Like I wrote in the first post, this lie is small potatoes compared to the whoppers this administration is telling about health care, cap 'n trade and the economy. We all know they lie but it would be nice if more of the press besides Fox News would actually expose them.

yes what a real disappointment he is. he actually disses any american who may oppose his particular view, it truley is the

most arrogent thing I have witnessed


hes very partonizing and talks to people as though they are children



he is sowing his own defeat

Yes, Watergate was no secret either..... according to Doob's logic....

My logic, eh? If people know about something, it isn't a secret anymore. Apparently the people involved in this deal were MORE than willing to discuss it with the news outlets, otherwise we would never have heard about the story and it WOULD be a secret.

Get it?

It's not my logic, it's just LOGIC.

so, it's not really a secret deal at all, and it's not written in stone (meaning either party could fail to hold up "their end" of the deal).

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But that's not what you inferred. It was a secret deal. Just because it was discovered does NOT change the INTENT.... to be secretive.

This is a transparent govt? This is what Obama campaigned up and down the country on?

Shameless......embarrassing.

doobnVA said:

My logic, eh? If people know about something, it isn't a secret anymore. Apparently the people involved in this deal were MORE than willing to discuss it with the news outlets, otherwise we would never have heard about the story and it WOULD be a secret.

Get it?

It's not my logic, it's just LOGIC.

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so according to your logic (which is not logic)

the DHS, LEXICON, and MIAC reports were not secret either right?

Keenly said:

so according to your logic (which is not logic)

the DHS, LEXICON, and MIAC reports were not secret either right?

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Remember kids, this is the politics section at RIU. Cracker logic rules. Obey or be run out.

I don't think it's about any person in here or not, claiming that a backroom deal that was never to be scrutinized by the public isn't a "secret" simply because a journalist did his job and exposed it, isn't really a logical position. Is it? I hope not or we're in a bigger heap of trouble than any of us can even imagine. I started this thread not to show the administration lied, but to expose the members on this forum to a piece of information I didn't think most of them had seen. I thought that because I'm fairly tuned in to everything political and hadn't seen it myself. Even though information like this quickly turns partisan, we should all be wary of our politicians and hold everything they say and do up for examination. It seems an obvious principle, but it also seems to be a principle a large portion of the press has forgotten.

MuyLocoNC said:

I don't think it's about any person in here or not, claiming that a backroom deal that was never to be scrutinized by the public isn't a "secret" simply because a journalist did his job and exposed it, isn't really a logical position. Is it? I hope not or we're in a bigger heap of trouble than any of us can even imagine. I started this thread not to show the administration lied, but to expose the members on this forum to a piece of information I didn't think most of them had seen. I thought that because I'm fairly tuned in to everything political and hadn't seen it myself. Even though information like this quickly turns partisan, we should all be wary of our politicians and hold everything they say and do up for examination. It seems an obvious principle, but it also seems to be a principle a large portion of the press has forgotten.

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I agree. All politics are partisan - they play us for fools.

it really sad to see intelligent people blame all this on one guy, our system is archaic. operates at a snails pace in an digital world. at the very least we need a three party system to have a chance to stave off the the inertia this gov....i LOVE what it was founded on. it needs change.

pinkus said:

it really sad to see intelligent people blame all this on one guy, our system is archaic. operates at a snails pace in an digital world. at the very least we need a three party system to have a chance to stave off the the inertia this gov....i LOVE what it was founded on. it needs change.

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At the very least, we certainly need three. I'd prefer five or six.

jrh72582 said:

Remember kids, this is the politics section at RIU. Cracker logic rules. Obey or be run out.

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You have multiple problems running at the same time. Slowing down long enough to follow who is talking to whom is one of them. He was not referencing me but DoobVA. Recheck and reset, and SLOW down. You may fare better....perhaps not.

CrackerJax said:

You have multiple problems running at the same time. Slowing down long enough to follow who is talking to whom is one of them. He was not referencing me but DoobVA. Recheck and reset, and SLOW down. You may fare better....perhaps not.

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Oh how you love establishing hierarchy over people, Cracker. You know what psychologists call this complex?

Like I said, you misread the post......