Vote NO on prop 19... (great read for anyone that will be voting in november in cali)

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The Potologist

The Potologist

Active Member
skate4theherb said:
what does it mader about the grow space,if you already grow illegal. and the same goes for the 1oz?
wouldnt be better that they just take your plants away,then you losing your plants and going to jail?
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Hence why ANY form of regulation and legalization is better than prohibition( A lose-lose scenario) Prop 19 ( a Win-Possibly Lose scenario). :)

Again, remember the MESSAGE we are sending to the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT if Prop 19 fails. We SUPPORT Prohibition. We are OKAY with the Mexican mafia. We DONT WANT NOR NEED regualtion and Legalization. If we REINFORCE the DEA's MOTTO of Regulation and Legalization being a " NON-STARTER" WE ARE MAKING THEIR JOBS SOOOO MUCH EASIER :(
 
skate4theherb

skate4theherb

Well-Known Member
right on man..i feel the same way about prop 19.why would be deny the chance to show people that weed, Ganja,herb what ever you want to call it.IS NOT THE DEVILS HERB.THEY SHOULD FEAR IT.

PEACE LOVE AND GREEN BUD!
 
The Potologist

The Potologist

Active Member
fdd2blk said:
you will still go to jail.
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I believe under the infrigment that you exceed said limit...depending on how much you do go over...I am sure you could face jail...But that is so far fetched. If you are say 10,000 plants over the limit than I agree that person should learn to live within the laws of civilization. Its a start fdd....its not going to be perfect. Even the ones responsible for Prop 19 agree its not perfect, but its our start :)

Slightly off topic, IF I WAS A FATHER...I would not encourage my underage child to smoke cannabis until he conforms to the laws of civilization. I would encourage cannabis over booze...but not until he/her is of legal age. There is no need to ruin your life my starting a criminal record for underage smoking or drinking. Moreso, AS ADULTS, we SHOULD NEVER smoke with anyone under the age of 18 regardless if its legal or not. Its just not what I would THINK we as ADULTS want are kids around :)
 
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lightningkid

Member
10jed said:
That is not true! It clearly says that you can keep whatever you grow legally in the place that you grow it!
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My friend, with all due respect, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. If prop 19 does say that, it certainly is NOT clear; thus leaving it open to interpretation by LEOs and judges.

What is clear in prop 19 is that someone may "Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale."

(Legal definition of possess: "v. to own, have title to, occupy, physically hold or have under exclusive control.")

"Possess on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated ..." This does NOT say "...in unlimited quantity..." If that is what they wanted, that is what they should have said. Section a(i) dictates the legal amount of cannabis that may be processed, one ounce or less.

I'm not saying that Prop 19 does limit the amount in the home, I'm just pointing out the ambiguity. One outcome of prop 19 is GUARANTEED, it will be widely interpreted by the courts and will make bad case law. Which if you ask any lawyer, is bad for all of us.
 
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sm0keyrich510

Active Member
EmptyWords said:
very good read. i am not from cali but i have been getting annoyed hearing people talk about voting yes in November and not having a clue what they are voting on. The sad thing is the majority of voters will never see this article or even get facts about this law and just vote yes because all they want is legalized marijuana. They will soon find out that it was not what they thought and the law cannot be reversed and they have no one to blame but themselves, but they will though, and they will complain etc but if they didnt take the time to understand the law then they have nothing to complain about because they are the lazy idiots that made this law pass. I hope this law does not pass and maybe one day see a "real" legalization law go into effect but it will take a long time. Thanks for posting this article. +rep
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thanks for coming over to the darkside...it seems anywhere you bring this up (internet or even real life) and anyone who smokes marijuana will jump down your throat and call you stupid when infact they have no clue what prop 19 really means...and that just drives me nuts...especially when DO point all the negatives out they mostly say, "well at least i can have some weed"...seriously...thats the basic response i get...its always, "so...it wont effect me" type thinking...

to top it all off i dont wanna see all the people that made the calfornia marijuana industry what it is today forgotten or kicked to the curb.

Thats kind of a slap in the face...and i don't mean those who grow illegally or sell their marijuana illegally...im talking all the independent growers who supplied the pot clubs (as well as the people directly).

the way the law is written it will just be abused by the state/gov (milking it for all the taxes/fees it can), big business (for the $$$...not your health/safety), and illegal dealers out of state who could possibly come to caifornia...get marijuana LEGALLY and for a LOT cheaper than they would be able to get it where they are from & take it back to flip it for a profit...promoting more criminal activity in other states (especially those that border california). bad idea. but b4 i get too carried away i just wanna say good post and thanks for the +rep
 
The Potologist

The Potologist

Active Member
fdd2blk said:
because you would be exceeding the limits that you set on yourself by voting yes. ;)
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Just FOLLOW THE LAWS of Civilization AND YOU WOULDNT Brotha! Voting No Support the Mexican Mafia...

ID MUCH rather take a chance of being "over the limit" then letting those fuckmouths in the Mexican Mafia Kill another loved one over MY beloved CANNABIS!!
 
The Potologist

The Potologist

Active Member
Voting Against Prop 19 means :
voting against the safest and most defenseless medicine on the planet earth

voting against the millions of lives ruined by [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] prohibition everyday

voting against the movement which we worked so hard for 70 years

voting against the CHANCE that you wont make as much money when all likelyhood you will make more and be safer - effectively voting against yourself.

voting against the truth that all [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] use is medicinal and safe

voting against THE PEOPLE

Voting for hypocracies that marijuana shouldnt be legal cause its a medicine and that no human has the right to use it for recreation

Voting against the herb and telling the Government that you believe in prohibition, you are okay with being a suppressed victim of prohibition. That the mexican mafia is okay. That the black market is where you like to get your drugs. That you dont care about the laws?

Seriously, lets set ones own selfish desire aside. Even those who are responsible for Prop 19 agree that it is not perfect, but its our start. There is absolutely NO REASON TO VOTE AGAINST IT. IF YOU DO, YOU SUPPORT :

Prohibition ( kinda odd/hypocritical to be a prohibitionist but consume cannabis)
DONT SUPPORT MEDICAL marijuana ( supporting against Prop 19 means you WANT PROHIBITION...which includes Medical or not)

THE DEA ( they believe regulation or legalization is a "Non-Starter". Prop 19 is our start. Either you are with Prop 19 or with the Dea and the whole "non-starting" ideologies)

The Mexican Mafia ( or any illegal growers) They REALLY dont want any regulation or legalization.

You Also are telling the Government that ITS OKAY TO BE A VICTIM OF PROHIBITION. I guess some people have not suffered enough consequences of Prohibition. Moreso, Nothing like an invitation to suppress the people and its plant!!

THIS IS SO SO SAD. We are a Cannabis Forum!!!! TO say you are against Prop 19 is just tragically ignorrant. ( I say that with no disprespect to ANYONE).


Laslty, we are a reformed society. We have more amendments than any other country. We start with Prop 19 and amend it from there. The Pros and Cons are way to obvious and clear here. Personally...if prop 19 fails.....shame shame shame on us! We have our chance...if you consume cannabis or believe that A PLANT HAS A RIGHT TO BE FREE AND NOT SUPRESSED, or have had enough of being a victim of prohibition, or dont want the mexican mafia around anymore, or want to grow your own medicine or get it from some other place other than the black market ...Than do the RIGHT FUCKING THING...HIT THE YES BUTTON COME NOVEMBER!!!

AS things stand right now...The Government has FULL CONTROL. They have TOLD US NO WE WONT regulate and legalize.( DEA's MOTTO IS CANNABIS LEGALIZATION/REGULATION IS A NON-STARTER). When WE SHARE THE POWER, WE HAVE A SAY...Until then....Dont bitch, whine, cry because its illegal. Moreso....Make sure to hit yourself REAL FUCKING HARD...RIGHT IN THE BACK OF YOUR OWN HEAD...IF you vote NO and get caught up in a pinch....bet you will wish for Prop 19 then!!!

Voting Against SHOULD BE NON OPTIONAL!!! IF YOU DO, GO JOIN THE CRIMINALS IN THE MEXICAN MAFIA>>>THATS WHO YOU ARE SUPPORTING IF YOU VOTE AGAINST IT. THERE IS NO TWO WAYS AROUND THAT FACT!!!!!

Lets do this People! Prop 19 is not perfect, but its our chance to send a very clean message to the Federal Government. Dont be selfish, do THE RIGHT THING...VOTE FOR PROP 19 in November!!!

Peace, Love, and Happiness
​
 
10jed

10jed

Active Member
lightningkid said:
My friend, with all due respect, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. If prop 19 does say that, it certainly is NOT clear; thus leaving it open to interpretation by LEOs and judges.

What is clear in prop 19 is that someone may "Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale."

(Legal definition of possess: "v. to own, have title to, occupy, physically hold or have under exclusive control.")

"Possess on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated ..." This does NOT say "...in unlimited quantity..." If that is what they wanted, that is what they should have said. Section a(i) dictates the legal amount of cannabis that may be processed, one ounce or less.

I'm not saying that Prop 19 does limit the amount in the home, I'm just pointing out the ambiguity. One outcome of prop 19 is GUARANTEED, it will be widely interpreted by the courts and will make bad case law. Which if you ask any lawyer, is bad for all of us.
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Yes there are 3 defintions of possess in your dictionary quote. The last is to personally posses.

You didn't finish the sentence in your prop quote...

Possess on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated pursuant to section 11300(a)(ii), for personal consumption.
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(ii) Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel. Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property. Provided that, nothing in this section shall permit unlawful or unlicensed cultivation of cannabis on any public lands.
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a(iii) references specifically a(ii) and not a(i). a(iii) is the last word on the issue in the prop and so that is what the prop states. Since a(ii) doesn't impose any plant or size restrictions, there are none and since it says you can keep on premisis what you legally grow per a(ii), you have no limits other than footprint.. If you guys are really honestly concerned about that one point ask a lawyer about it. That is how it works. I will confirm that with my lawyer but I know what it means. If I am wrong I will post it here for all to see. If I am right I will post it here and you guys can keep kicking the dead horse.

Jed
 
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lightningkid

Member
The Potologist said:
Voting Against Prop 19 means :
There is absolutely NO REASON TO VOTE AGAINST IT.
THIS IS SO SO SAD. We are a Cannabis Forum!!!! TO say you are against Prop 19 is just tragically ignorrant. ( I say that with no disprespect to ANYONE).
​
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I respect your passion, but saying there is no reason to vote against it is tragically ignorant. Many respected pot activists don't support it. Many legal experts who are PRO LEGALIZATION also don's support it. It IS possible to do more harm than good by passing a vague law that was written to appease the masses and favor the special interests. I keep hearing "It's a step in the right direction." This statement shows a complete lack of understanding of the law and how bad laws are used by the police to take advantage of citizens. It will NOT be easy to undo the harm that might be caused by prop 19. IMO, Californians enjoy unprecedented access to weed, both legal and illegal. And the state will soon make 1 oz or less a simple civil violation with a $100 fine. When you throw in the flexibility that prop 215 provides, I say we can WAIT for full legalization. Just my .02
 
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lightningkid

Member
10jed said:
Yes there are 3 defintions of possess in your dictionary quote. The last is to personally posses.

You didn't finish the sentence in your prop quote...

a(iii) references specifically a(ii) and not a(i). a(iii) is the last word on the issue in the prop and so that is what the prop states. Since a(ii) doesn't impose any plant or size restrictions, there are none and since it says you can keep on premisis what you legally grow per a(ii), you have no limits other than footprint.. If you guys are really honestly concerned about that one point ask a lawyer about it. That is how it works. I will confirm that with my lawyer but I know what it means. If I am wrong I will post it here for all to see. If I am right I will post it here and you guys can keep kicking the dead horse.

Jed
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Jed, You missed the point of my post. I'm simply saying that it will be liberally interpreted by LE and judges. << THAT is how it works. I'm sure your lawyer will be happy to explain how ambiguous laws are put into practice by police and judges.
 
The Potologist

The Potologist

Active Member
lightningkid said:
I respect your passion, but saying there is no reason to vote against it is tragically ignorant. Many respected pot activists don't support it. Many legal experts who are PRO LEGALIZATION also don's support it. It IS possible to do more harm than good by passing a vague law that was written to appease the masses and favor the special interests. I keep hearing "It's a step in the right direction." This statement shows a complete lack of understanding of the law and how bad laws are used by the police to take advantage of citizens. It will NOT be easy to undo the harm that might be caused by prop 19. IMO, Californians enjoy unprecedented access to weed, both legal and illegal. And the state will soon make 1 oz or less a simple civil violation with a $100 fine. When you throw in the flexibility that prop 215 provides, I say we can WAIT for full legalization. Just my .02
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SO SUPPORTING THE MEXICAN MAFIA IS SMARTER THAN SAYING YES TO PROP 19....NOW THAT MY FRIEND IS TRAGICALLY IGNORRANT. ITS NOT A PASSION EITHER!!! THERE IS POSSIBLE harm in VOITING YES...BUT WE ALREADY NO THE HARM OF SAYING NO!!!! VOTING NO DOES NOT OUTWEIGHT!!! WE HAVE NO CONTROL NOW, WHEN WE CAN HAVE A SAY...Police and other LEO cant bend the RULES LIKE THEY DO NOW....AGAIN...U VOTE NO...GO GET A JOB WITH THE MEXICAN MAFIA>..You fit in real well there with that mindset...with no disrespect!!! If you were'nt to take as much time out to point out what u think I said is false or "ignorrant" you would be alot better off in realizing just what YOU ARE SUPPORTING BY VOTING NO!!! Dont be SELFISH, Please dont ruin this for those who have had enough of being a VICTIM!!! I can understand those that dont care cause it doesnt effect them, BUT ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!! THERE IS NO REASON TO CONTINUE TO CREATE VICTIMS and TO CONTINUE TO KEEP THIS PLANT PROHIBITED please get over your selfish desire to have a "perfect or better" law...THERE IS'NT ONE!!! As things stand now...You dont have a say, and anything u do with cannabis is AGAINST THE LAW according to FEDERAL LAW, WHICH TRIUMPS EVERYTHING. SURE OBAMA MAY NOT ATTACK MEDICAL MARIJUANA...But maybe the NEXT ONE WILL IF PROP 19 FAILS!!!

Siding with the leamma that a " 100$ fine is Okay" shows no care about the plant and its RIGHT TO BE FREE. Humans SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY a CRIMINAL fee to have a PLANT THAT SHOULD BE FREE"....WHILE U WAIT...Just imagine the CHILDREN ....THE WOMEN, THE HUSBANDS, THE DADS, THE MOTHERS, THE GRANDPARENTS....Who are VICTIMS OF PROHIBITION....GO TELL THEM TO "WAIT" for a more Sensable "law"....Please PEOPLE ARE DYING...being EXECUTED AS WE SPEAK....CHILDREN.....I SAY THAT AGAIN....CHILDREN CANT WAIT !!!!!

Voting NO is TRAGICALLY IGNORRANT AND COMPLETELY SELFISH! Until You FEEL THE REAL RAFT OF PROHIBITION YOU MAY NEVER GET IT!
 
10jed

10jed

Active Member
lightningkid said:
Jed, You missed the point of my post. I'm simply saying that it will be liberally interpreted by LE and judges. << THAT is how it works. I'm sure your lawyer will be happy to explain how ambiguous laws are put into practice by police and judges.
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I will look at it with an open mind and see what his take is on it. I agree that word shouldn't be there, but at this point I contend that it is irrelevant because of a(iii). I'll report back either way.

Jed
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
lightningkid said:
I respect your passion, but saying there is no reason to vote against it is tragically ignorant. Many respected pot activists don't support it. Many legal experts who are PRO LEGALIZATION also don's support it. It IS possible to do more harm than good by passing a vague law that was written to appease the masses and favor the special interests.
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That was one of the main arguments against prop 215. People claimed it was vague and police would abuse it. You know what? They were right. It was vague and police did/do abuse it. Should we have voted against prop 215 for the same reasons?

lightningkid said:
I keep hearing "It's a step in the right direction." This statement shows a complete lack of understanding of the law and how bad laws are used by the police to take advantage of citizens.
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You've posted links to several blogs that were filled with outright lies and claimed they were informative. You really shouldn't be telling others that because they support prop 19 they don't understand the law.

And again, do you think prop 215 is a bad law and should be removed because it was written in a way that allowed police to abuse it?

lightningkid said:
IMO, Californians enjoy unprecedented access to weed, both legal and illegal. And the state will soon make 1 oz or less a simple civil violation with a $100 fine. When you throw in the flexibility that prop 215 provides, I say we can WAIT for full legalization. Just my .02
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Wait to stop an injustice we can end now? No thank you. We should seize the moment and take opportunities as they come, not throw them away because of fear of what the police might do. Under any circumstances police will fight the end of prohibition. If you wait for a time when that won't happen, then you'll be waiting forever.

Carpe diem.
 
The Potologist

The Potologist

Active Member
With or without Prop 19 POLICE AND LEO ARE STILL GOING TO TWIST AND BEND AND ABUSE THE LAW...Thats apart of their job. Thats called "Job-Security" A measure by which they continue to secure their own job with the force. They dig and poke and prode at laws ...so WHY SUPPORT THE POLICE by voting against Prop 19. My biggest and most sickening fact is this. Voting against PROP 19 Means you CONDONE and SUPPORT INNOCENT CHILDREN BEING KILLED OVER A PLANT( CANNABIS). That.....is something NO ONE WHO CALLS THEMSELF A MAN OR WOMEN SHOULD BE APART OF!!! IF YOU THINK CHILDREN CAN "WAIT" FOR A BETTER MEASURE THEN GET OFF THIS PLANET, YOUR KIND IS NOT WELCOMED HERE. THESE ARE OUR CHILDREN. WE HAVE A DUTY TO PROTECT THEM. VOTING AGAINST PROP 19 IS NOT PROTECTING OUT CHILDREN!!!!
Peace, Love, and Happiness
 
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lightningkid

Member
Dan Kone said:
You've posted links to several blogs that were filled with outright lies and claimed they were informative. You really shouldn't be telling others that because they support prop 19 they don't understand the law.
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That's not what I said. And despite a few inaccuracies or "lies," those blogs contain legitimate facts that many people don't know about. (Really they both seem to be mostly speculation about what will happen if Prop 19 is passed.)

I'm not following your logic about prop 215. Shouldn't we learn from the mistakes of 215, not repeat them?
 
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