Veganic Soil Mixtures, Vegan Manures, Tips, Tricks, and more-

Kphlash

Member
Ok, so i know Matt Rize has his long thread of all sorts of information for veganic gardening. My problem with it, is not his information, but the amounts of posts in between make it difficult to find the information.

I stumbled on this site looking for more ideas for my new super soil! Hopefully it will rival some of the organic super soils already stickied on here, but thats for another thread.

Basically, this site is devoted to all things veganic, and though it is not specifically for this (nothing is unfortunately), it is a good building block to convert for your flowers. Also lots of other tips and tricks to maintaining bugs, fungus, etc.

http://www.veganorganic.net/information-sheets/

Enjoy, hope it helps bongsmilie
 

upthearsenal

Well-Known Member
Great link man, + rep for that.

It's so hard to keep the grow vegan... I feel every bag of soil I've used isn't vegan, or at least I haven't found one that is.

I will try and dedicate a couple plants from my next grow to be as vegan as possible. I will still be using my EWC, but I control everything they eat and they have a 100% vegan diet...
 

Kphlash

Member
Thanks, It is hard without the land to make a decent compost-then when you have the land, avoiding bears,coons and such... In CO a couple dispensaries are working together with some grow stores to get a compost company and soil recycling center working. We were hoping we would have it going before fall so we could capitalize on all the foliage but it should be up and running soon. This way we can dump all our spent soil into our waste areas, flush and sterilize the soil, add it in with the hummus and worms and let it meld for several months. We are all focused on growing right now, but the costs of our soils are building to the point of necessity.

I am working on a potting mix too, similar to Subcools, but trying complete Veganic(we shall see), and trying to make 2 versions, 1 for clones, seeds, and veg. The other will be a super soil put in the bottom of the pot when transplanting before flowering. This doesn't seem too hard, but i am trying to use raw materials, not premixed bags-but most companies are working for the layman to not have to learn what plants need...

Basically the super soil is stealing Subcools, and converting it to remove animal products/bi-products and see if its as good as his shit (no pun intended)

I was expecting Prof Rize to chime in here, o well, im sure hes busy
 

upthearsenal

Well-Known Member
That's cool man, using a seemingly cool compost as your base would be perfect. I'm sure that's the best way to go, but sterilizing it for indoor use can be a pain. For larger quantities I'd imagine you would go with a soil company that can sterilize it all in one batch or something like that, I know down here that is extremely expensive...

I bet you could use a composter indoors and just add rootballs, worms, maybe add some kelp as well and use that as your base
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Nice BRO! I also have that link, but it is buried as you said. Sorry for taking so long to catch on... got BANNED from another ganja forum today. hehehe

Give me a minute and I will post some of the better vegan products I am using/testing. Uh to start. Mineral Matrix.


"Fertilizers and Solutions / Organic Supplements / Bio-Genesis

THIS PRODUCT IS CURRENTLY NOT AVAILABLE IN CALIFORNIA

NOTICE: WE ARE SWITCHING OUR ORGANIC CERTIFICATION FROM OMRI TO WSDA FOR NO GOOD REASON OTHER THAN THEY ARE A LITTLE CHEAPER. BOTH ORGANIZATIONS ARE A COMPARABLE AUTHORITY.

Organic micronutrient supplement formulated to correct deficiencies for all organic crops, hydroponics systems, container plants and landscapes. Citric acid chelated for stability and availability and improved plant uptake. Safe and natural, non-phytotoxic formula. Highly effective as a foliar spray or watered in to soil, soilless or hydroponic root zone applications. Nothing quite like this has ever been available before."

here is the link: https://www.greenair.com/browse/mineral-matrix.html
 

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Matt Rize

Hashmaster
That's cool man, using a seemingly cool compost as your base would be perfect. I'm sure that's the best way to go, but sterilizing it for indoor use can be a pain. For larger quantities I'd imagine you would go with a soil company that can sterilize it all in one batch or something like that, I know down here that is extremely expensive...

I bet you could use a composter indoors and just add rootballs, worms, maybe add some kelp as well and use that as your base

I am attempting to make a vegan soil in my composter/tumbler using root balls, veggie/fruit food scraps, leftover AACT, and some old compost as the starter.
 

Kphlash

Member
Nice BRO! I also have that link, but it is buried as you said. Sorry for taking so long to catch on... got BANNED from another ganja forum today. hehehe

Give me a minute and I will post some of the better vegan products I am using/testing. Uh to start. Mineral Matrix.


"Fertilizers and Solutions / Organic Supplements / Bio-Genesis

THIS PRODUCT IS CURRENTLY NOT AVAILABLE IN CALIFORNIA

NOTICE: WE ARE SWITCHING OUR ORGANIC CERTIFICATION FROM OMRI TO WSDA FOR NO GOOD REASON OTHER THAN THEY ARE A LITTLE CHEAPER. BOTH ORGANIZATIONS ARE A COMPARABLE AUTHORITY.

Organic micronutrient supplement formulated to correct deficiencies for all organic crops, hydroponics systems, container plants and landscapes. Citric acid chelated for stability and availability and improved plant uptake. Safe and natural, non-phytotoxic formula. Highly effective as a foliar spray or watered in to soil, soilless or hydroponic root zone applications. Nothing quite like this has ever been available before."

here is the link: https://www.greenair.com/browse/mineral-matrix.html
:) I found that before, but wasnt sure on how well it worked...But if you have endorsed it, i guess i can try it without too much worry.

Sterilizing the soil has always been the bigger issue for the factory, but luckily with an infused product license we have access to a commercial kitchen. There is also a huge furnace, as one used to be a private school. Working on being able to convert that to a giant oven for soil, vents well too. We also should have a large grain mixer to help churn and sift the bulk waste out of the finished top soils before adding them into nute mixes.

Worm castings will be done inside (its CO, and gets cold every night) Think i might grow beans in the waste soil too before composting it. We are still trying to figure the best ways out.

How many growers and scientists does it take to make a soil company? -not enough, and too fucking many!
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
not enough and too many... that's funny.

if you are going for a true soil, and vegan, my products won't be much help to you as I run a soil-less organic media. peace


post edit: "some time the things you need in life may be difficult, not all the times its going to be easy. That's why I smoke the marijuana and get HIGH..." ;)

VEGAN ORGANICS = ITAL ORGANICS

marijuana is my holy sacrement - kalongi
 

Kphlash

Member
Ya i have been flip flopping on soil-less vs soil, what i am trying to do is make it possible for commercial growers to be completely organic/veganic without having to make teas. Basically make it so people can do large scale grows with a "just add water" philosophy. I would love to setup a simple sprinkler system for my plants, and if you go crazy get a fogger system to foilar feed (i converted a MistAway 50gal system into aeroponic system before into aeroponic system before-200 misters per zone and 2 zones-lots of timers too), so you are completely automated and just have to maintain the plants...
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Ya i have been flip flopping on soil-less vs soil, what i am trying to do is make it possible for commercial growers to be completely organic/veganic without having to make teas. Basically make it so people can do large scale grows with a "just add water" philosophy. I would love to setup a simple sprinkler system for my plants, and if you go crazy get a fogger system to foilar feed (i converted a MistAway 50gal system into aeroponic system before into aeroponic system before-200 misters per zone and 2 zones-lots of timers too), so you are completely automated and just have to maintain the plants...
Interesting. I do brew teas, all sorts of recipes depending on the stage life cycle. But am also into bottled products for the soil-less medias. Don't fear brewing teas, it is super easy. You pretty much throw some soil in a bucket with bubble it... I go much more in depth on my thread but here are some quotes.

New School "Teas"
Now we can go back to new school teas. Traditionally teas have been brewed from compost and soil. This brewing includes a food source that the microbes feed on to reproduce and thrive. There are many quality examples of home-made brew kits and recipes available on rollitup.

The point of brewing these AACT concoctions is to increase life. This tea is usually filtered and the goodies (water + microbes + plant/microbe food*) are added to dirt to unlock the soil-food-web.

Products such as Mayan Microzyme are what I call "new school tea" products, in that they represent the other side of the tea coin. Mayan is a liquid microbe starter that we have covered in this thread, but is something that you can pick up from the store and use a tablespoon as needed to inoculate your brew. It is brewed just like an AACT, but the only ingredients you need are mayan and molasses.

When I'm not using an actual AACT, or Mayan, I like to use soluble microbes. Examples are great white, myco madness, and white widow.

MORE LIFE!

* optional, depends on soil amendments and plant needs.
"It's Tea Time! (thanks ct)

Compost tea has become increasingly popular in the last few years as part of a grower's program. In fact, current world record holder was grown using this technology. I'd like to take this opportunity to discuss different types of compost teas and share some of the knowledge we've gained in the industry over the past 5 years.
Let's start by looking at some of the different types of teas you can make for your plants:

Plant Tea - This is where plants are soaked directly in water for an extended period of time. Compost is not involved, and any bacteria or fungi on the surface of the plant will be extracted. May contain some soluble nutrients.

Manure Tea - Typically manure is placed in a permeable bag (burlap) into a bucket or barrel and left to soak for an (# of days) extended period of time. Compost is not involved, and will be dominated by anaerobic organisms (bacteria and ciliates). Pathogens will be present in most instances, and may burn the leaf surfaces of plants. These teas will contain some soluble nutrients, but may also contain antibiotics and growth hormones such as tetracycline, that are not broken down during the composting process.

"Put To Sleep" Tea - These teas are typically advertised as "instant" compost teas. Specific organisms are cultured or extracted from compost and then put into a dormant state. Even with hundreds of different species, it won't contain even 1% of the diversity or quantities you would find in properly made aerated compost tea. These teas may be helpful in certain instances when you wish to combat certain diseases and know the proper microbe that has been documented to prevent or suppress it (eg. trichoderma).

Compost Leachate - These teas is sometimes referred as "worm tea" as it is the liquid that leaches out of the base of worm bins or compost piles during the composting process. Leachates will consist primarily of soluble nutrients, but will contain some small amount of biology. This can serve as a good food substrate for the biology in your soil.

Compost Extract - Compost extract is where the microorganisms are stripped from the soil aggregates using water and extracted into a liquid form. This process will contain good biology for soil drenches, and can be made very quickly, as it does not require a brewing process. It does however require a large amount of compost relative to the final liquid product, and is primarily used in large commercial productions.

Non-Aerated Compost Tea - This is where compost is put into a container with water and foods are added for the microbes. The tea is then stirred occasionally or left to sit for a period of time. These teas may or may not produce beneficial results and could potentially harm your plants depending on the anaerobic organisms in your starting compost.

Aerated Compost Tea (AACT or ACT) - Similar to the tea above, this process involves adding oxygen to the tea and a food source for the biology in the compost. By creating optimal conditions for aerobic microbes, AACT allows you to multiply the biology in the starting compost by over 10,000 times. Many plant pathogens are anaerobic and prefer low to no oxygen conditions. By making sure the tea and the compost itself are well oxygenated and highly aerobic, you can potentially eliminate 75 percent of the potential plant-disease-causing bacteria and plant-toxic products.
For the past 5 years, AACT has become the standard within the organic industry in regards to compost teas. It's currently being used by golf courses, vineyards, farmers, and homeowners as a means of growing healthier plants. Here's a list of some of the benefits:

Compost tea has been shown to help in disease-suppression (pythium, phytopthera, powdery mildew, fusarium, etc.) when applied as a foliar spray and soil drench.

Helps extend root systems

Increases water and nutrient retention

Is 100% safe and natural

Creates healthier plants

Helps breakdown of toxins in the soil and on the plants

Enhances the taste of fruits and vegetables

Reduces or eliminates the need for chemical pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers

Occupies the space around the infection sites so disease-causing organisms cannot penetrate into the tissues of the plant

Cannot be over-applied because it is completely natural and organic

These benefits are all attributed to well-made AACT. If the tea is not made properly, you will not see all of the benefits listed above. Let's take a closer look at what goes into making quality aerated compost tea.

1. Good compost is very important! Without good biology in the compost, you really have no chance of getting high-quality tea. You can only multiply what you put into your brewer, therefore good compost that has been tested to have high numbers and a diversity of beneficial organisms is essential. A lot of science goes into making good compost, and unless you test your compost you really have no idea if what you are putting into your brewer is truly beneficial. By adjusting the type of compost you put in the brewer you can control whether your tea is going to be bacterial or fungal dominated. We use a mix of 3 different composts (Alaska humus, vermicompost, and a fungal compost comprised of woody materials) to increase the biological diversity in our teas.

2. Food is critical for the microorganisms so that they can reproduce and grow in numbers. The goal is to maximize your output of beneficial biology without giving the bacteria and fungi too much food that they over-replicate and cause the tea to go anaerobic. It's important that dissolved oxygen levels stay above 6 mg/l during the entire brewing cycle. There are many different recipes out there, each of which will give you different biology in the end and some are much better than others. It is important to see the lab results of the recipe you use to make sure that you are indeed maximizing your final product.

3. Oxygen! All living organisms need oxygen to survive, and your tea is no exception. If you're not getting enough oxygen in your brew, then your tea will go anaerobic and you will start brewing the "bad" organisms (pathogens such as e.coli or root feeding nematodes) that may have existed in your original compost. If your tea has enough oxygen and stays aerobic for the entire brew cycle, what you'll have at the end will be the good biology that you want for your plants.

In addition to these variables, other things to consider are elevation, temperature, brewing time, and water quality. All of these variables can have a significant impact on your final tea. With significant elevation, you may need to increase the brewing time, due to the lower oxygen content in the air. With high temperatures, where the water temps are 90 degrees or above, you'll want to shorten the brewing cycle and possibly cut back on the foods you're using. In cold temps., you'll want to increase the brewing cycle to give the organisms time to reproduce. In regards to water quality, different sources will have different mineral or chemical content, which will affect your final tea. In the case of chlorine or chloramines, these chemicals will need to be removed prior to adding the compost to the brewer.
 

Kphlash

Member
:) I have no problem with brewing teas or using bottled products either. I'm looking at very large scale grows of one hundred to several hundred plants. It is very frustrating with perpetual grows to have to mix different proportions on a large scale. I love to transplant the plants just before flower and just add water- I want to take it one step further and include the veg cycle too- try to balance everything so the plant is self sufficent
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
With a properly amended true soil that is a solid option. But I still think even a "just add water" system can use a tea here and there to refresh the soil life. Also, no matter how perfect you dial in your soil different genes want different things, and you will surely need a little cal/mag plus and humic acid and saponins to foliar with to correct deficiencies. Most important is going to be your soil and your temp/RH. Having the proper "dif" for temp and humidity will help your plants regulate themselves. Lower temps and RH at night are more important than most recognize, and many diagnosed deficiencies are actuall RH issues.
 

Kphlash

Member
Ya, everything will need some foliar and the occasional tea. But not every week... I am also very big in playing with the "natural cycle" of plants. Trying to keep my light times similar to actual daylight (plants go to bed at 9pm to start and wake up at 9am then start night time earlier as they progress), and environment consistent with the environment they came from. (I.E amsterdam/BC/South america conditions dependin on strains origin-actually looked into their weather before lol) I think it makes a big diff for the plant to feel comfortable. Like if I moved to china, but the house and everything felt like CO, Id be more comfortable
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Ya, everything will need some foliar and the occasional tea. But not every week... I am also very big in playing with the "natural cycle" of plants. Trying to keep my light times similar to actual daylight (plants go to bed at 9pm to start and wake up at 9am then start night time earlier as they progress), and environment consistent with the environment they came from. (I.E amsterdam/BC/South america conditions dependin on strains origin-actually looked into their weather before lol) I think it makes a big diff for the plant to feel comfortable. Like if I moved to china, but the house and everything felt like CO, Id be more comfortable
Wholeheartedly agree with reproducing nature. Have you thought about light movers? I'd say that's where to start. Plants are not used to fixed light. And changing your bulbs to better reproduce the way light changes as it comes from different angles during the seasons. I use MH for veg, then transition over to HPS, then transition back to MH at the end of flower.

Are you planning on shortening your 12/12 to include less and less light, so that by harvest you are doing 10 light/14 dark?

As for climate... man everything I grow is some crazy ass hybrid that was bred for indoors, so it's hard to say. But if you are fortunate enough to have some more traditional land race genes, I could see that being really important.

When I get sick of CA and the feds are here busting medical growers I'll be headed your way, and sounds like I know where to buy my herb :)
 

sharpshoota

Active Member
Thanks, It is hard without the land to make a decent compost-then when you have the land, avoiding bears,coons and such... In CO a couple dispensaries are working together with some grow stores to get a compost company and soil recycling center working. We were hoping we would have it going before fall so we could capitalize on all the foliage but it should be up and running soon. This way we can dump all our spent soil into our waste areas, flush and sterilize the soil, add it in with the hummus and worms and let it meld for several months. We are all focused on growing right now, but the costs of our soils are building to the point of necessity.

I am working on a potting mix too, similar to Subcools, but trying complete Veganic(we shall see), and trying to make 2 versions, 1 for clones, seeds, and veg. The other will be a super soil put in the bottom of the pot when transplanting before flowering. This doesn't seem too hard, but i am trying to use raw materials, not premixed bags-but most companies are working for the layman to not have to learn what plants need...

Basically the super soil is stealing Subcools, and converting it to remove animal products/bi-products and see if its as good as his shit (no pun intended)

I was expecting Prof Rize to chime in here, o well, im sure hes busy

Hey whats up. Have you put together your super soil mix yet??? very interested!!
 

Kphlash

Member
Hey whats up. Have you put together your super soil mix yet??? very interested!!
Work in progress... Ill make a new post in a few months once my test batches finish. Same clones-tried to get same size, diff mixtures, same everything else. I have had trouble with bone/blood meal replacement without adding fish products. I have some friends/employees who are better than me at the chemical level, that are working very hard. I like to see how their ideas effect my babies, so I deal more with the finished product and the issues I find- to help them adjust their mixtures.

This is one of those things we are all excited for, but will be waiting some time till it is "perfect". Like most things.
 

Kphlash

Member
OK so, Im having difficulties here, I had to cheat on all the mixes...Called in some favors with some friends who know more about the plant matter breakdowns than I do. I cant get the right mixture without the bonemeal/bloodmeal - I hate the smell/taste the Fishmeal gives, could just be me... None of them produced like they normally do.

It seems even plants know vegans are retarded, and for a plant to try and be a vegan is just a stupid... No offence to all you animal lovers, but once the animal is dead, its an insult to not use it. The killing is another issue, but we need to eat :)
 

rosecitypapa

Active Member
OK so, Im having difficulties here, I had to cheat on all the mixes...Called in some favors with some friends who know more about the plant matter breakdowns than I do. I cant get the right mixture without the bonemeal/bloodmeal - I hate the smell/taste the Fishmeal gives, could just be me... None of them produced like they normally do.

It seems even plants know vegans are retarded, and for a plant to try and be a vegan is just a stupid... No offence to all you animal lovers, but once the animal is dead, its an insult to not use it. The killing is another issue, but we need to eat :)
To clarify, were the replacements that you tried the typical recommendations?
Blood (13-0-0 or 12-1-1) Meal ----> Alfalfa (3-.5-2.5) & Linseed (6-1-1) Meal
Bone (4-12-0) Meal --------------> Soft Rock Phosphate (0-3-0)
Fish Emulsion (5-1-1)

Were you able to find a replacement for bat guano?
 
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