Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

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romulan23

Member
Is Bio Canna Done in the USA. I heard it is no longer going to be available: 9this is what i read- Due to changes in Organic certification Canna Bio products will not be available for sale in the US. Please contact us for suitable alternatives. Supply is limited!

What are you going to switch too?

 
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blueJ

Active Member
Man these girls are too hungry! I thought i'd be able to (i wanted to) fit in a plain water or plain compost tea in between feedings, but this is the 4th heavy feeding in a row and they're looking great, but the yellowing is becoming more pronounced than i would want at this point on the lower fans, given i haven't trimmed the lower leaves at all, i usually keep it real clean down below, but i didn't do any trimming down below, hehe. Not an unhealthy dying crispy yellowing, more of a fading, leaves down there still perky and healthy looking, I just think it's too soon at about 4 weeks for "fall colors." When do you all like to see any color change? I also noticed when i used the humboldt nutes 0-10-0 it yellowed more lol, the less i use it the better my plants respond, so i'm gonna drop it all together, and i'm hardly using the technaflora 1-1-16, i don't think high percentages of NPK (over 10 or so) is beneficial or needed in a plant based organic system, with emphasis on microbes. Being well infected with AM fungi requires less P, in rereading parts of Teaming with Microbes it stresses that high P feedings will overdose your fungi, so that makes sense i guess.

I think i will topdress with some amendments (compost/kelp/azomite/green sand/ewc maybe) a week before flipping to 12/12 to help out and here's what they've been getting each watering and only showing signs that she wants more N, at least.

10ml vega
15ml flores
15ml boost
10ml molasses/honey es
5ml fulpower
5ml go calmag
3ml hygrozyme
1ml protekt
 
Kb's seeds

Kb's seeds

Active Member
veganics huh? i remeber when kushman first started writing about this style of growing and i must admit im am alittle confused on how it repilcates nature better than organics. yea the earths soil does have alota composted plant matter in them but i dont think people are realizing how much animals effect our growing enivorment. our earths natural soil has alota fresh manure being delivered constantly, also buried down are bones of animals even dinsaurs amd still fleshy dead animals being decomposed, there are also a wide variety of insects that die seasonally and get broken into the soil, flies are a great example of bugs tha are constantly in the outdoor enivomrent that die and get broken into the soil, worm castings are not veganic, worms eat and shit they are living creatures not living plants so using worm casting is not all veganic in my book, also considering microbes floursih in guano or casting based teas u might have a hard time brewing a all vegainc tea, even kushman uses a small amount of liquid bone meal (tho i dont agree with the brand, alota liquid nutes will have bad effect on microbes regardless of what company says) you can only go so far with rock phosphate for your phosphorous boost u need that bone meal or fruit bat guano to get good yields, all in all i think veganics is jus a snappy name for a style of liquid organic feeding, choosing more plant based products over animal products, but i dont think a 100% veganic feeding style would be more benificial than one tha incorperate animaly by products, nature has been using animal by products to ferterlize herself long before humans new how to grow any plants, why should we think that we know better than nature
 
Kb's seeds

Kb's seeds

Active Member
but hey if veganics is working for you keep at it! the more u learn about a certain style of feeding the better and better ur gona get!
 
D

dickkhead

Active Member
blueJ said:
Man these girls are too hungry! I thought i'd be able to (i wanted to) fit in a plain water or plain compost tea in between feedings, but this is the 4th heavy feeding in a row and they're looking great, but the yellowing is becoming more pronounced than i would want at this point on the lower fans, given i haven't trimmed the lower leaves at all, i usually keep it real clean down below, but i didn't do any trimming down below, hehe. Not an unhealthy dying crispy yellowing, more of a fading, leaves down there still perky and healthy looking, I just think it's too soon at about 4 weeks for "fall colors." When do you all like to see any color change? I also noticed when i used the humboldt nutes 0-10-0 it yellowed more lol, the less i use it the better my plants respond, so i'm gonna drop it all together, and i'm hardly using the technaflora 1-1-16, i don't think high percentages of NPK (over 10 or so) is beneficial or needed in a plant based organic system, with emphasis on microbes. Being well infected with AM fungi requires less P, in rereading parts of Teaming with Microbes it stresses that high P feedings will overdose your fungi, so that makes sense i guess.

I think i will topdress with some amendments (compost/kelp/azomite/green sand/ewc maybe) a week before flipping to 12/12 to help out and here's what they've been getting each watering and only showing signs that she wants more N, at least.

10ml vega
15ml flores
15ml boost
10ml molasses/honey es
5ml fulpower
5ml go calmag
3ml hygrozyme
1ml protekt
Click to expand...
I was thinking about adding the full owner till I saw the price! Is it worth it? My first 2 girls pineapple express and heavy duty fruity aare all jarred up first veganic grow and people are realy liking it so far! Just germed 3 space dawgs,acid, and og. I'm excited to see how they come out with veganics
 
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blueJ

Active Member
I hear ya KB's and I don't disagree - but nature didn't intend to be indoor under lights & fans though :D so i will go a few more runs leaning strongly towards 100% plant based, if i get there then awesome, if i'm not going to get the yields i want then I wouldn't be opposed to a guano tea or two in midflower. I have a recipe for a 100% plant based soil mix & 100% plant based nutrient schedule - i will have some room on my next run and will do 4 plants or so like this and see what happens.... i haven't seen what kyle's been up to, where are you getting your info, i.e. him using liquid bone meal, his medicalmarijuana.com site isn't updated much anymore....

dickhead, i like the fulpower! i pay $50/gallon and that will last a long time, the smaller bottle lasted me a few months, so cost isn't so much an issue like the bioboost is lol, the gals are happy so i think it's doing its part to aid in nutrient uptake, and when i make a fungal dominant tea i add the fulpower & liquid kelp.
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Kb's seeds said:
veganics huh? i remeber when kushman first started writing about this style of growing and i must admit im am alittle confused on how it repilcates nature better than organics. yea the earths soil does have alota composted plant matter in them but i dont think people are realizing how much animals effect our growing enivorment. our earths natural soil has alota fresh manure being delivered constantly, also buried down are bones of animals even dinsaurs amd still fleshy dead animals being decomposed, there are also a wide variety of insects that die seasonally and get broken into the soil, flies are a great example of bugs tha are constantly in the outdoor enivomrent that die and get broken into the soil, worm castings are not veganic, worms eat and shit they are living creatures not living plants so using worm casting is not all veganic in my book, also considering microbes floursih in guano or casting based teas u might have a hard time brewing a all vegainc tea, even kushman uses a small amount of liquid bone meal (tho i dont agree with the brand, alota liquid nutes will have bad effect on microbes regardless of what company says) you can only go so far with rock phosphate for your phosphorous boost u need that bone meal or fruit bat guano to get good yields, all in all i think veganics is jus a snappy name for a style of liquid organic feeding, choosing more plant based products over animal products, but i dont think a 100% veganic feeding style would be more benificial than one tha incorperate animaly by products, nature has been using animal by products to ferterlize herself long before humans new how to grow any plants, why should we think that we know better than nature
Click to expand...
hey thanks for posting. in reference to vegan organic horticulture, its been around for a long long time, long before kushman was a speck in his fathers eye. ancient asian culture has shown the efficacy and usefulness of vegan organic horticulture. the argument that animal products are need to produce full flavor or full resin is long dead, I slew them personally.

and I have to say, I thought Kushman was full of shit until I dialed in my vegan garden (way beyond his idea of veganics). Now the results speak for themselves, both high ranking THC%s and superb flavor. Low yields tho...

Why should we think we know better than nature? That is not really the issue at all. Nature doesn't grow plants with the intention of smoking them. That is uniquely human, and only our experiences can tell us what affects the smoke quality of a plant.
 
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dickkhead

Active Member
Thanks blue j I'll prob add it to the 101000200101 bottles I already have lol. Kinda getting sick of all these bottles I think I might try subs super soil next. Mix the soil and hook the girls up with some Blu mats or self feed watering system and you have a fully automated system!!
 
Dank Raptor

Dank Raptor

Active Member
blueJ said:
I also noticed when i used the humboldt nutes 0-10-0 it yellowed more lol, the less i use it the better my plants respond, so i'm gonna drop it all together, and i'm hardly using the technaflora 1-1-16,
Click to expand...

Sup BlueJ one thing I noticed.. Too much sugars, example: using too much molasses or Honey ES will raise the amount of carbon in your soil and will drop the nitrogen levels in your plant according to another user on RIU. I noticed this seems to be true. I fed with less honey es this round and my plants are a lot greener. Then again, I have also used more N. this time also.
 
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blueJ

Active Member
HHhhmmm, i'll think on that a bit, the honey ES i only use once a week (if i remember) in flower, in lieu of molasses or i do 50/50 type of thing. And molasses goes in every watering or tea but lately only @ 30ml/5 gal - how much do you all use?

Thanks for bringing this up though, as i was trying to think "what else could cause early yellowing/fading (from bottom up) besides a lack of N? Trying to brainstorm 'n make sure i covered all the bases ya know - it's lookin like a fat harvest this time around though, so it's def. improving, HUGE improvement over last round, i should post a side by side lol
 
PakaloloHui

PakaloloHui

Active Member
In response to
Matt Rize said:
I dialed in my vegan garden (way beyond his idea of veganics). QUOTE]

Not trying to be a dick Matt, but would you please do a journal of your next grow and post all feedings and such. It might help to keep the HATERS at bay. Like you said Veganics is not high yielding so be sure to emphasize that. Your flowers are beautiful from beginning to end, your products are TOP SHELF, you have the expertise and the camera gear to take some nice shots, or vidz. to put together a great thread or journal a grow for us.

Now is the time. RIZE UP!!!

It might also help others along the way.

Yes, I just asked again:)
Click to expand...
 
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dickkhead

Active Member
blue j I also just fead with honey es and molasses and my plant has been green its whole life (5months old) until i used it. now I know why its yellowing thanks guys!!
 
cannawizard

cannawizard

Well-Known Member
*this (and some other threads) on RIU are the only ones i check on these days; big ups to mr Rize for the 'vegan organic' info updates~

keep up the good work bruh ;)
 
NightbirdX

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
Man, you know what? I don't know what you guys are talking about with this whole low yield thing. I have friends that run technaflora, and Dynagro in hydro, and fox farm, aoo, canna, and GO in soil, and I rank up there with best higest yields. Even my "bad" shit is keeping my patients incredibly happy, and me too and I'm just a pot snob, lol. Granted, I have a rotation and typically I veg for 6-8 weeks, but I still get 3 oz avg on a bad run. I've had 5 oz avg on good runs, all using BioCanna in an amended soilless mix.
 
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blueJ

Active Member
I'm not gona pull 10 oz's from a 5 gal lol but i know i can now get 4 to 5 average, the group shot below, i think they're about 40 days into flower (don't like that much yellow quite yet), the other two are closer up of the same girls, the veg pic is a sour bubble just going into flower today, we'll see if some top dressing and even more N a little longer will keep the yellowing at bay another week or so into flower, although it might not be such a bad thing, they're in the home stretch now & fattening up very nicely!

DSCN1011.jpgDSCN0999.jpgDSCN1002.jpgDSCN1009.jpg
 
Kb's seeds

Kb's seeds

Active Member
blueJ said:
I hear ya KB's and I don't disagree - but nature didn't intend to be indoor under lights & fans though :D so i will go a few more runs leaning strongly towards 100% plant based, if i get there then awesome, if i'm not going to get the yields i want then I wouldn't be opposed to a guano tea or two in midflower. I have a recipe for a 100% plant based soil mix & 100% plant based nutrient schedule - i will have some room on my next run and will do 4 plants or so like this and see what happens.... i haven't seen what kyle's been up to, where are you getting your info, i.e. him using liquid bone meal, his medicalmarijuana.com site isn't updated much anymore....

dickhead, i like the fulpower! i pay $50/gallon and that will last a long time, the smaller bottle lasted me a few months, so cost isn't so much an issue like the bioboost is lol, the gals are happy so i think it's doing its part to aid in nutrient uptake, and when i make a fungal dominant tea i add the fulpower & liquid kelp.
Click to expand...


the reason u havent seen wha ive been up to is tha i just joined this website two days ago havent had time to post all my pics but if u look at my page u will find a few, tho one thing i do find lame about this site is everyone questions everyone else i.e. i havent seen what kyles up to, this website is suppose to be about sharing and theorizing on different grow styles and pros and cons of those grow style, as far as where i got my info, read in the hightimes 420th issue about kyle kushmans veganics he clearly states in that articule (he wrote it) that he uses highly refined bone meal that has been proccessed to be colorless and ordorless, considering kushman wrote the articule himself i consider that a pretty valid piece of info, and ur right nature never itended to be indoors, but nature never intended us to try and grow plants differently than nature does, its called human intervention, i have seen alota veganic soil mix recipe and nute schedules but none that i would switch too, i use to use the humboldt nutrients organic line until this based year i have switched to a more different style i use more solid nutes and just teas, i have found mix happy frog potting soil with garden & bloome harvest supreme u will get a great soil mix full of nutrients, add in sum humisoil and sum fresh worm casting and blam! great organic soil mix also gives u room to add alittle extra food in, i like to mix in sum all purpose 5-5-5 with my soil for alittle extra punch of nutes, all in all there are quite a few ways to grow cannabis and none may be the best way, also whyd u call me kyle? im pretty sure tha name isnt on my profile anywhere/
 
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