Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

coonword

coonword

Active Member
beez i feel ya the ppm and ph meter can really piss ppl off...im doing a aero setup got my ppm at the desired level my ph meter gave me a false reading i thought it was at 5.8 tunrns out it was really lik 4.9-5.0 almost lost everything got the ph back to 5.8 and things are picking up(a week later) and im still gunna have to get rid of a few due to too much stress...if you find some good info or ne thing pm i always like to learn new stuff and the best of luck to you on the subject
 
Wolverine97

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
beeznutz said:
\ keep running into ppl saying the same when doing organics- so what rules do you follow if any?
i'm ready to ditch my meter, got rid of ph one already, just not quite understanding how to go about feeding schedule.....
like, if i follow the manufacturer's instructions say GO, and it says 10ml per gl then should i ever go more than that?if so when?
and then if you take into account the other supps, micros, etc which add up the ppms then should i worry about being too much?
should i alternate between feed with basic macros and other micros+supps?

i'm still locked to the ppm meter and not sure what to do....
Click to expand...
Three words: read your plants.
 
NightbirdX

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
Wolverine97 said:
Three words: read your plants.
Click to expand...
Ya this definitely the case, but learning what your plant is telling you is the hard part. You may see that something is going on but at first it can be hard to diagnose. The more experience you get with a strain or nutrients, the easier it becomes. I don't really come from a hydro background, but I've had problems with burn and deficiency in the past, so when I start to push the bounds of recommended dosages, I like to get some input. I'm all about giving the plant what it wants. Like was said earlier, learning to not worry about your PPM and schedules is the hard part. Once you can start winging it and reading your plant better things really start to come together. I have come up with a rough schedule to follow and adjust accordingly depending on what I see that the plant needs. I just have never used any of the other stuff like Bio Weed, Bio Bud, or Diamond Black, and am trying to circumvent any problems by understanding it better before I introduce it into my regimen.

I know it sounds like I have a lot of problems, but I mostly just throw out ideas to you guys to get some info from the sounding board. I may have an idea or be thinking something and like to pick your brains to see if I'm on the right track. My stuff has actually been coming out fantastic. Each month my yields get higher and higher. The quality has been incredible the whole time. I think I'm finally getting it more dialed in.

I am a very unsatisfied grower, and I find that to be a good thing. There is always room for improvement, so I like to bounce ideas off you guys to see what you think.

I must admit, since I started frequenting these forums my knowledge has increased incredibly. I remember reading the 420 article that Kushman wrote in High Times, and I really had no idea what he was talking about. I took what I could from the article and have been building on that since then with the assistance of you guys. I started with some BioCanna and some soil, and from then to now, my grow style has changed completely, lol.
 
Wolverine97

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
NightbirdX said:
Ya this definitely the case, but learning what your plant is telling you is the hard part. You may see that something is going on but at first it can be hard to diagnose. The more experience you get with a strain or nutrients, the easier it becomes. I don't really come from a hydro background, but I've had problems with burn and deficiency in the past, so when I start to push the bounds of recommended dosages, I like to get some input. I'm all about giving the plant what it wants. Like was said earlier, learning to not worry about your PPM and schedules is the hard part. Once you can start winging it and reading your plant better things really start to come together. I have come up with a rough schedule to follow and adjust accordingly depending on what I see that the plant needs. I just have never used any of the other stuff like Bio Weed, Bio Bud, or Diamond Black, and am trying to circumvent any problems by understanding it better before I introduce it into my regimen.

I know it sounds like I have a lot of problems, but I mostly just throw out ideas to you guys to get some info from the sounding board. I may have an idea or be thinking something and like to pick your brains to see if I'm on the right track. My stuff has actually been coming out fantastic. Each month my yields get higher and higher. The quality has been incredible the whole time. I think I'm finally getting it more dialed in.

I am a very unsatisfied grower, and I find that to be a good thing. There is always room for improvement, so I like to bounce ideas off you guys to see what you think.

I must admit, since I started frequenting these forums my knowledge has increased incredibly. I remember reading the 420 article that Kushman wrote in High Times, and I really had no idea what he was talking about. I took what I could from the article and have been building on that since then with the assistance of you guys. I started with some BioCanna and some soil, and from then to now, my grow style has changed completely, lol.
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Wassup Nightbird. You're on the right track there, keep soaking it in and you'll be an old hand before you know it.
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
NightbirdX said:
Should I worry about the GO CaMg+ raising my ppm a whole lot? I've been adding in 1-2 tsp/gal every other feeding and was thinking that they need more.
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dont worry about it. Biocanna is way lacking in CalMag. if your plants are burning thats one thing. if not, no worries. I just switched to GO's CalMag from the Calplex Huvega combo. My calplex keep separating.

I'll give yall my current line up.

Soil mix: Bioterra plus, organic vegan mix, charcoal, neem cake, dolomite lime, VAM from BioAg
Nutes: Main lineup - Vega/Flores/BioBoost, Hygrozyme, TM-7 from BioAg, CalMag, Molasses, proTekt.
Supplements - Aloe Vera juice, Yucca juice, NN Nitrogen, HN 0-10-0, Soluble seaweeds from BioAg and Technaflora. Ful-Power, 50% humic from Bioag.
 
spivak420

spivak420

Active Member
Matt Rize said:
dont worry about it. Biocanna is way lacking in CalMag. if your plants are burning thats one thing. if not, no worries. I just switched to GO's CalMag from the Calplex Huvega combo. My calplex keep separating.

I'll give yall my current line up.

Soil mix: Bioterra plus, organic vegan mix, charcoal, neem cake, dolomite lime, VAM from BioAg
Nutes: Main lineup - Vega/Flores/BioBoost, Hygrozyme, TM-7 from BioAg, CalMag, Molasses, proTekt.
Supplements - Aloe Vera juice, Yucca juice, NN Nitrogen, HN 0-10-0, Soluble seaweeds from BioAg and Technaflora. Ful-Power, 50% humic from Bioag.
Click to expand...
Mr. Rize sir, I'd like to first say that I greatly admire the work you are doing and the wisdom you spread through avenues like this.
I was hoping you answer a couple questions I have about your nutrient/supplement regimen...
Regarding the BioCanna line: do u follow BioCannas feeding schedule exactly, or do u modify to fit your needs?

Which brings me to my next question: Do u have a set schedule/program for supplements you utilize?
The way I understand it BioCanna (and Hygrozyme) is a complete nutrient regimen, lacking only cal/mag.
If u could explain in what order you use the supplements you list at the various stages of growth.
And do u follow each separate supp. manufacturers directions for use exactly, and if not, what is your schedule for supp. use?

Thank you in advance for having patience with my noob questions.

D
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
spivak420 said:
Mr. Rize sir, I'd like to first say that I greatly admire the work you are doing and the wisdom you spread through avenues like this.
I was hoping you answer a couple questions I have about your nutrient/supplement regimen...
Regarding the BioCanna line: do u follow BioCannas feeding schedule exactly, or do u modify to fit your needs?

Which brings me to my next question: Do u have a set schedule/program for supplements you utilize?
The way I understand it BioCanna (and Hygrozyme) is a complete nutrient regimen, lacking only cal/mag.
If u could explain in what order you use the supplements you list at the various stages of growth.
And do u follow each separate supp. manufacturers directions for use exactly, and if not, what is your schedule for supp. use?

Thank you in advance for having patience with my noob questions.

D
Click to expand...
I use the Biocanna feeding schedule, loosely, and generally on the lower end because I run 600s and lower CO2 levels. The last 10 days I feed nothing but plain water. I transition slowly from the vega to the flores starting about 2 weeks into flower. This transition occurs over about 3 weeks. This transition should vary depending on how long it takes for your plants to flower.

I use BioAg TM-7 (micronutes and humic) once a week with my feedings. If I'm not using the TM-7, then I'm using BioAg Humic (50%) with my feedings. Also the aloe vera juice once a week.

I use CalMag basically every feeding until plain water time, although truth be told, I drop it earlier than the biocanna for better tasting smoke. I also use ProTekt almost every feeding, low levels.

I use hygrozyme once a week, but not until after my final transplant because it's not needed or doing anything until your roots get old.

In flower, I drop the 50% Humic, and replace that with BioAg's seaweed/humic/micronute product, then a little HN 0-10-0. That's my PK boost.

I limit myself to one bottle of Bioboost per cycle, and use that from 12/12 until it's gone. You can't really overdo it, but for $100/bottle its just not worth using that much.

The NN Nitrogen gets used as needed, depends on if/when the plants asks for it.

Prevention foliar is a combo from www.neemresource.com. I use their neem oil and karanja oil, emulsified with pro tekt, then in RO water, then add Yucca extract.

For foliar feeding its mostly just Fulvic acid and micronutes.
 
upthearsenal

upthearsenal

Well-Known Member
Hey Matt, how important do you think the exp. date on the BioBoost is? I mean, obviously it's there for a reason but I think I might have some left after the date, should I toss it, would I be good for a couple weeks? Maybe I should keep it in the fridge? I've never had fertilizers with an exp. date before.............
 
W

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
Matt Rize said:
dont worry about it. Biocanna is way lacking in CalMag. if your plants are burning thats one thing. if not, no worries. I just switched to GO's CalMag from the Calplex Huvega combo. My calplex keep separating.

I'll give yall my current line up.

Soil mix: Bioterra plus, organic vegan mix, charcoal, neem cake, dolomite lime, VAM from BioAg
Nutes: Main lineup - Vega/Flores/BioBoost, Hygrozyme, TM-7 from BioAg, CalMag, Molasses, proTekt.
Supplements - Aloe Vera juice, Yucca juice, NN Nitrogen, HN 0-10-0, Soluble seaweeds from BioAg and Technaflora. Ful-Power, 50% humic from Bioag.
Click to expand...
Matt

Reading this makes me smile, we've both sorta grown (pun intended), with our mixes. I was the 'old school' blood, bone, kelp, amended mix and you were the 'new school' bottled vegan stuff only (for the most part).

Now, I see you're doing many more soil amendments, towards my OS style, and for my part, I've lost the blood in favor of vegan N sources, mainly alfalfa meal and I'm starting a Comfrey bed. I have the bed, the Comfrey roots should be here this week. I still have to use some bone meal, because I cannot source soft rock phosphate locally. I do use the granulated Rock phosphate, mostly, but it is soooo slow to break down, I still need some bone meal, which isn't that fast either. No fish bone meal either here. Bummer !!

Still don't mess with bottled nutes, too pricey, but am working towards just vegan soil amendments.

Getting there.

Wet
 
spivak420

spivak420

Active Member
Thank you so much, I have been brought out of the dark and into the light.

You mentioned that you use less than Cannas recommended amounts, because you run 600w and CO2....
If you were using 1000w instead of 600w, would the amounts of nutrients used be increased significantly?
Am I reading correctly, that using CO2 allows for lower levels of nutrients required?

What size pots do you use for the final transplant, and what type of pot do you prefer?

I have read that there are customs issues perventing the sale of BioTerra soil in the US, is this correct?
And if so what soil do you use in place of 'Terra? What is your opinon on Pro Mix #4, and is it an adequate substitute for 'Terra?

many thanks and much respect

D
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Wetdog said:
Matt

Reading this makes me smile, we've both sorta grown (pun intended), with our mixes. I was the 'old school' blood, bone, kelp, amended mix and you were the 'new school' bottled vegan stuff only (for the most part).

Now, I see you're doing many more soil amendments, towards my OS style, and for my part, I've lost the blood in favor of vegan N sources, mainly alfalfa meal and I'm starting a Comfrey bed. I have the bed, the Comfrey roots should be here this week. I still have to use some bone meal, because I cannot source soft rock phosphate locally. I do use the granulated Rock phosphate, mostly, but it is soooo slow to break down, I still need some bone meal, which isn't that fast either. No fish bone meal either here. Bummer !!

Still don't mess with bottled nutes, too pricey, but am working towards just vegan soil amendments.

Getting there.

Wet
Click to expand...
Wetdog,

You know I love the way you grow! The BioTerra Plus I use has bonemeal in it as well. I can't seem to get enough P/Ca without. I'm cutting back on the costs, especially in veg. I've been talking to lots of old school growers and they've convinced me to go more middle of the road with my grow style. UptheA has helped too, he's working on a vegan soil mix that needs little to no supplementation. Rize UP!
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
spivak420 said:
Thank you so much, I have been brought out of the dark and into the light.

You mentioned that you use less than Cannas recommended amounts, because you run 600w and CO2....
If you were using 1000w instead of 600w, would the amounts of nutrients used be increased significantly?
Am I reading correctly, that using CO2 allows for lower levels of nutrients required?

What size pots do you use for the final transplant, and what type of pot do you prefer?

I have read that there are customs issues perventing the sale of BioTerra soil in the US, is this correct?
And if so what soil do you use in place of 'Terra? What is your opinon on Pro Mix #4, and is it an adequate substitute for 'Terra?

many thanks and much respect

D
Click to expand...
Misunderstanding, What I meant to convey is that I keep my CO2 levels lower than most CO2 growers, Between 600 and 800ppm instead of the usual 1000+ppm. So I use lets nutes than a super high CO2 growers. And yes, I find that plants under 1000s watters need more food and grow bigger/faster than plants under 600s. I think over growing the plants leads to bad tasting herb so I slow it down a little on purpose.

I'm finishing in 5 gallon post now. My veg pots are mesh bottom, but I can't afford the 5 gallon mesh bottom pots so I'm using the standard with extra holes drilled.

The Bioterra Plus has those issues. No worries, the other precharged medias are comparable. Sunshine #4 is precharged (a little) so should work. I've been amending my mix now with more food and other stuff listed a few posts back.
 
W

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
Matt Rize said:
Wetdog,

You know I love the way you grow! The BioTerra Plus I use has bonemeal in it as well. I can't seem to get enough P/Ca without. I'm cutting back on the costs, especially in veg. I've been talking to lots of old school growers and they've convinced me to go more middle of the road with my grow style. UptheA has helped too, he's working on a vegan soil mix that needs little to no supplementation. Rize UP!
Click to expand...
We all get to the same barn eventually. LOL

Always evolving.

Wet
 
B

beeznutz

Active Member
wolverine, i hear ya man, def spending my time learning the plants and one thing i've learned is that i'm gonna ditch this super haze i've been growing, it always gave me troubles although it does produce quality and quantity [first crop i had almost 8oz from one plant]. also, my i think my situation is a bit complicated as i'm trying to find ways to recycle media and minimize waste which is why i'm doing the hempy buckets as opposed to everybody doing soil which is great if u can reuse it [i can't].

i'm right there with nightbird, just bouncing questions around this thread for feedback and excellent insight from pro growers....
you dont even know how excited i was to find this thread about growing vegan/organic [nobody does it around where i'm at] and to see how many ppl are interested in participating. i have to give it up to the professor for not only starting this thread and sharing his knowledge with the rest of us on this virtual community but also for being so active in the real community and teaching ppl about the importance of organics so.... HEAR, HEAR !

matt, thx for posting ur list [been waiting for that;-)], it came right on time too because i was looking for a good source of P and i see u have listed Bloom Natural 0-10-0 in there so i will be getting that asap. also, i see ur switching from Calplx to Ca/Mg - what exactly was the issue? separating as in when u mix ur batch? other than that how did u like it? because i'm the opposite, i've switched from Ca/Mg to Calpx/Huvega.....
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
beeznutz said:
wolverine, i hear ya man, def spending my time learning the plants and one thing i've learned is that i'm gonna ditch this super haze i've been growing, it always gave me troubles although it does produce quality and quantity [first crop i had almost 8oz from one plant]. also, my i think my situation is a bit complicated as i'm trying to find ways to recycle media and minimize waste which is why i'm doing the hempy buckets as opposed to everybody doing soil which is great if u can reuse it [i can't].

i'm right there with nightbird, just bouncing questions around this thread for feedback and excellent insight from pro growers....
you dont even know how excited i was to find this thread about growing vegan/organic [nobody does it around where i'm at] and to see how many ppl are interested in participating. i have to give it up to the professor for not only starting this thread and sharing his knowledge with the rest of us on this virtual community but also for being so active in the real community and teaching ppl about the importance of organics so.... HEAR, HEAR !

matt, thx for posting ur list [been waiting for that;-)], it came right on time too because i was looking for a good source of P and i see u have listed Bloom Natural 0-10-0 in there so i will be getting that asap. also, i see ur switching from Calplx to Ca/Mg - what exactly was the issue? separating as in when u mix ur batch? other than that how did u like it? because i'm the opposite, i've switched from Ca/Mg to Calpx/Huvega.....
Click to expand...
Thanks for the kind words. I'm not a real accredited professor, but ya know, I teach.

My Calplex was separating. The Ca formed clay like aggregates and was a b*tch to keep breaking up, making it hard to believe it's in solution. Maybe it was an old batch of calplex.
 
NightbirdX

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
I picked up some Diamond Black, BioBud, and Thrive Alive B1 to add into the mix. The Diamond Black says to add a TBS/gal to the mix, but not how often. I have seen at other places that it should only be used once a month. Whats the general consensus?

I also need to go pick up some more mycorrhizae. I have been using Plant Success soluble mycorrhizae and was thinking of getting something more comprehensive. Something that give the microbes, but also gives other added benefits. I was thinking of checking out either Mykos 30, Subculture M and B, or Great White Mycorhizzae. I was also thinking of some Earth Juice Microblast. Any thoughts on any of these?

And that Hash looked insane Matt, lol.
 
D

Digispliff

Member
NightbirdX: I've used Earth Juice Microblast before, and always been happy with my results. Ditto with Great White, but I've heard lots of good things about Mykos—I was thinking about giving it a try soon.
 
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