Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize
- Thread starter Matt Rize
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Matt Rize
Hashmaster
well...options include: peat, coco, rice hulls, redwood bark, other barks, lots of pH stabilizer options, expanded clay, perlite (argh), rock minerals, organic wetting agent like cocowet...i'm missing the vegan meals right? cottonseed, kelp, neem seed, flax, soybean, sunflower...what else?
things i would like to exclude: animal meals & poops, chem, rockwool, other hydro media
and the terra plus has these big chunks of gold peat that I've never seen anywhere else. sustainable product...not likely.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
title says it all. repost of veganic blackberry kush. so tasty, no cough...no sh*t! 
this round was super under fed...my dog died during the second week of flower. i fell apart and almost killed everything, thought i lost the whole round. thank the powers for mobile elements...but still. i dropped the ball this round and still made out well on veganics.
oh, and i should add, no horticultural oils, sulfur, azamax, serenade, or any of that was ever sprayed on these flowers, yet my room is far from sealed and i live in PM country.
this round was super under fed...my dog died during the second week of flower. i fell apart and almost killed everything, thought i lost the whole round. thank the powers for mobile elements...but still. i dropped the ball this round and still made out well on veganics.
oh, and i should add, no horticultural oils, sulfur, azamax, serenade, or any of that was ever sprayed on these flowers, yet my room is far from sealed and i live in PM country.
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upthearsenal
Well-Known Member
well, i can give you the benefit of the doubt, that bud looks good man. i guess the only way to really believe is to grow it yourself, but really, i've always felt that elements are elements and as long as your plant has what it wants it will grow wonderful buds. you can deplete a plant of all chemicals/fertilizers well before harvest with a good flush, leading the plant to only use it's natural self-made sugars towards the end of it's lifecycle
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
thanks man, i love that we can have different opinions yet keep it positive and respectful (
mado-d'oh). i was a huge skeptic to the veganic system that i'm on, but the proof is in the smoke, even more so than this pretty nug.this prob isn't the spot for this but has anyone ever tried using SUCANANT for feeding microbes and as a finisher? I've been hearing about it a lot at the trim tables but love my molasses so much.
and any opinions on HYDROLYZED SOY protein, the plant derived N source in 5-0-0 nutes?
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
and everyone knew that the world was flat until some people found out otherwise. same with the earth being the center of the universe. "facts" change with time.
my point is: don't knock it until you try it. nothing about vegan organics is not "real organics".
stonedmetalhead1
Well-Known Member
I was just wondering what type of a professor you are? What field?
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
First: What? No comment on my pict. That is the first forum pict for me since overgrizle, my " 2nd cherry".
What field do you think? CANNABIS!
I teach for a certain (in)famous oakland based "university". I've taught hundreds of students and they beg for post-class consultations. I've taught indoor, outdoor, hash, and cooking classes. Maybe I should call myself "paid guest lecturer" or "medical cannabis instructor" or something silly like that, but prof is more fun.
PLEASE, lets not make this thread about that school, and especially not about prop 19. I'm not here to advertise, but I am a public Cannabis activist. This is my life, and I go way beyond average to spread the knowledge that I've gained over the years.
I spoke as the key-note speaker at the recent Central Coast Cannabis Symposium. I talked about veganics and high-yield techniques. That was fun. Should I go on?
Back to PLANT DERIVED EXTRACTS!
upthearsenal
Well-Known Member
yes go on.. let's hear about these techniques
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
Thank you patpp. Some people just have to hate.
I don't know what to call someone who gets paid to teach adults in a classroom setting, maybe i'm just a teacher, but enough with semantics. And enough with the attacks, we are on the same team friend.
and again, back to PLANT BASED NUTRITION...
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
Hey, great. This I love this site! I think I should start a separate thread about HYT because the etiquette police have been all over my sack on this thread already. You know all this stuff already, nothing revolutionary like PLANT BASED NUTRITION!
I'll outline what I usually "present" in "lecture" (is that better semantically?
really?) This is separate from plant based fertilizers, which is really what this thread is about...
A) roots=fruits (IMHO)
B) an early FIM (depends, but for me right now. yes)
C) breaking the inner hurd techniques (many, and they are hard to describe in words, more to come)
D) horizontal training
E) working with local regula...
F) foliar feeding flowers (great for plant based nutes!)
G) anything that speeds the life cycle, which i count as a HYT. like balancing MH & HPS at different times, light cycle triggers, metabolism boosts, the debate on intentional stress...
E) CO2...i could go on, new thread time.
BACK TO PLANT BASED NUTRIENTS...
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
I do need a better camera than my crappy phone. Whatever though.
What can I say, professor is a half-joke because this an effing forum and I want to have fun. I do in fact get paid $200/hour to teach intelligent adults about cannabis, with powerpoint presentations, hands on participation, Q&A, all that good stuff. I enjoy teaching. Jealous is not a good look sir.
Also, how do I prove that I finally don't cough anymore since i stepped it up from organic to vegan&organic? IDK Come hang out...other than that I'm attempting to flesh out this vegan organic trend and was hoping to join forces with others in perfecting this system. I have not perfected it to say the least...three runs is not enough for perfection.
I should have known that some canna-nerd hater would freak out about it (my name is made up too, surprised?) and miss the whole point. This is not about money or yield or even how high it gets you. Plant based, aka vegan, nutrients are becoming popular and it is about time somebody talks about it. If you don't want to know about plant based nutes, then piss off.
If you've been reading all along...I've done three vegan plant based nutrient runs so far, after many organic. The feedback has been off-the-charts by the patients, and the microscope and quality of bubble tell the same story. Pictures can't explain everything that I've noticed different since I switched to plant based nutes. It has changed my quality of life...no more yawns. no more harsh throat. How can I prove quality of life to you?
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
AND BACK TO THIS THREAD:
I've noticed some differences between organic and vegan organic gardening (for those who would like to know, otherwise eff off).
I'll start at the smell of the actual products. Not stinky like the fish products and the poo products for obvious reasons. I think vega and flores smell literally delicious. And they are incredibly viscous. More so than I'm used to with organics, which makes sense being a fermented plant extract.
The safety factor. I always seem to be dipping my hand in my res, or getting splashed in the eye, or dripped on, or foliar feeding like a maniac, or something that involves either me getting covered in nute spray or potting mix. Now that there is no poop (IMO) I am not being exposed to any sh*t. Literally.
Have you seen Humboldt Nutes new potting mix. It is certified FECAL COLIFORM FREE...very interesting (IMO)
Vegan nutes do have relatively short shelf lives (1-2 years usually). This is because they are a fresh plant product. Most of my food goes bad too.
I've seen 500+ gram plants on vegan organics, but that doesn't matter to me.
Has anyone heard of Bioaccumulation and Biomagnification?
http://www.marietta.edu/~biol/102/2bioma95.html
For those who didn't follow the link: biomagnification refers to the accumulation of heavy metals as you move up the food chain. This obviously, relates back to PLANT BASED NUTRIENTS. "I am so smart, s-m-r-t D'OH" h simpson
I've noticed some differences between organic and vegan organic gardening (for those who would like to know, otherwise eff off).
I'll start at the smell of the actual products. Not stinky like the fish products and the poo products for obvious reasons. I think vega and flores smell literally delicious. And they are incredibly viscous. More so than I'm used to with organics, which makes sense being a fermented plant extract.
The safety factor. I always seem to be dipping my hand in my res, or getting splashed in the eye, or dripped on, or foliar feeding like a maniac, or something that involves either me getting covered in nute spray or potting mix. Now that there is no poop (IMO) I am not being exposed to any sh*t. Literally.
Have you seen Humboldt Nutes new potting mix. It is certified FECAL COLIFORM FREE...very interesting (IMO)
Vegan nutes do have relatively short shelf lives (1-2 years usually). This is because they are a fresh plant product. Most of my food goes bad too.
I've seen 500+ gram plants on vegan organics, but that doesn't matter to me.
Has anyone heard of Bioaccumulation and Biomagnification?
http://www.marietta.edu/~biol/102/2bioma95.html
For those who didn't follow the link: biomagnification refers to the accumulation of heavy metals as you move up the food chain. This obviously, relates back to PLANT BASED NUTRIENTS. "I am so smart, s-m-r-t D'OH" h simpson
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
Now I'll paint a picture...
Imagine yourself in Jamaica. Yeah mon, right down by da beach bwoi! You are chilling have a great time, rum punch in hand, in the shade, by the waves. Alright then, paradise. Yes-I. Now you see a seagull fly by and think 'hope it don't sh*t on me'. Back to paradise.
Then you go home and feed that shit to your plants, yuck. That bird went straight to the closest dump to feed. It ate human excrement, medical waste, dead people, who knows what! Then someone collected its poo, called it Jamaican seabird guano, and sells it in the stores. No thanks man, that sh*t ain't ital.
Imagine yourself in Jamaica. Yeah mon, right down by da beach bwoi! You are chilling have a great time, rum punch in hand, in the shade, by the waves. Alright then, paradise. Yes-I. Now you see a seagull fly by and think 'hope it don't sh*t on me'. Back to paradise.
Then you go home and feed that shit to your plants, yuck. That bird went straight to the closest dump to feed. It ate human excrement, medical waste, dead people, who knows what! Then someone collected its poo, called it Jamaican seabird guano, and sells it in the stores. No thanks man, that sh*t ain't ital.
patlpp
New Member
I'm surprised you opt for pre-mix. I would think you would lean toward mixing your own. Heres what I'm going to try: Mushroom compost, CoCo, with perlite (why is perlite discouraged?) and GH Biothrive line. http://www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/biothrive.html?PHPSESSID=698e2b821c50e5b3d9c5e083652a14a1 Just grow/bloom and carbonate cal/mag
Thoughts?
EDIT: I'm getting second thoughts on the shroom compost, some has manure. The bag I got says it has none but it does have a butt-load of chlorine.
Thoughts?
EDIT: I'm getting second thoughts on the shroom compost, some has manure. The bag I got says it has none but it does have a butt-load of chlorine.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
Yeah, I was mixing my own long-time until I gave the Bio Terra Plus a try, it is amazing. But it may not be the most sustainable natural product out there so the search continues. Shroom compost, now that's what I'm talking about! Plant based nutrition includes fungi!
I'm not a big fan of perlite for a few reasons, but I always seems to use a little.
First is that it is not natural.
Second is the irritant factor. The dust from that stuff is wicked to mucus membranes, and sick old people's skin can't deal with it. No debate there (i hope, ugh).
Third: you know you've been trimming and seen a piece of perlite on a bud once and a while. i don't like that. there could be perlite inside the flowers.
Fourth is the idea that perlite is a neutral media in terms of beneficials. Microbes don't thrive on perlite surfaces.
I would love to hear about result: GH Biothrive and coco.
What do you mean "has a buttload of chlorine"? in the compost?
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
weak link, repost. just trying to say that there is a lot of immunocomprimised people doing indoor gardening these days. and who really knows what is in those bags of powder-poo? what makes you think a rotting pile of poo is better than organic fermented plant extracts? the microbes that thrive in mammalian digestive tracts may not be the best microbes for soil/soilless media. while the microbes that thrive on hops must be beneficial for its closest relative...in a plant CANNAbalism sense.
"The patient in this case presented with primary cutaneous nocardiosis secondary to gardening, resulting in the direct inoculation of the organism.7"
"Clinicians should note that cure rates for nocardiosis involving the skin and soft tissue are almost 100%; nevertheless, the outcome of treatment for this infection depends on the health of the host (particularly on whether the patient is immunocompromised), the extent of disease, and the site of infection"
http://www.jaapa.com/the-history-holds-the-key-in-this-gardener-with-a-skin-infection/article/124047/
"Their presence on fresh produce is not uncommon. Salmonella, E. coli O157:H7, Campylobacter jejuni, Vibrio cholerae, parasites and viruses can contaminate produce through raw or improperly composted manure,..."
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09369.html
Histoplasmosis:
"The fungus can be found naturally in soil but is more abundant in areas that are rich in bird and bat guano (Aufderheide 199
such as around farms, chicken coops, and in caves."
"Warm blooded flying mammals such as bats, however, can carry the disease (although further research documenting the manifestation of symptoms in bats could not be found) and excrete the organism in GUANO"
"Birds can spread the fungus directly by carrying it on their wings, feet and beak, and provide fertilizer for the growth of the fungus through their excrement. Because of this nutrient rich fertilizer, areas with strong bird populations are more likely to harbor actively growing H. capsulatum. Bats are unique carriers of histoplasmosis because they can carry it in their mammalian systems and excrete it in their guano. Bat guano is an ideal medium for the growth of histoplasmosis spores,..."
http://www.squidoo.com/Histo
"The patient in this case presented with primary cutaneous nocardiosis secondary to gardening, resulting in the direct inoculation of the organism.7"
"Clinicians should note that cure rates for nocardiosis involving the skin and soft tissue are almost 100%; nevertheless, the outcome of treatment for this infection depends on the health of the host (particularly on whether the patient is immunocompromised), the extent of disease, and the site of infection"
http://www.jaapa.com/the-history-holds-the-key-in-this-gardener-with-a-skin-infection/article/124047/
"Their presence on fresh produce is not uncommon. Salmonella, E. coli O157:H7, Campylobacter jejuni, Vibrio cholerae, parasites and viruses can contaminate produce through raw or improperly composted manure,..."
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09369.html
Histoplasmosis:
"The fungus can be found naturally in soil but is more abundant in areas that are rich in bird and bat guano (Aufderheide 199
such as around farms, chicken coops, and in caves.""Warm blooded flying mammals such as bats, however, can carry the disease (although further research documenting the manifestation of symptoms in bats could not be found) and excrete the organism in GUANO"
"Birds can spread the fungus directly by carrying it on their wings, feet and beak, and provide fertilizer for the growth of the fungus through their excrement. Because of this nutrient rich fertilizer, areas with strong bird populations are more likely to harbor actively growing H. capsulatum. Bats are unique carriers of histoplasmosis because they can carry it in their mammalian systems and excrete it in their guano. Bat guano is an ideal medium for the growth of histoplasmosis spores,..."
http://www.squidoo.com/Histo